Well, want me to repost my "party role/thematic role" spoilers? :P
Other than serving as a front line melee DPS(and tank if she has time to Mage Armor/Shield), Diene has face capabilities with decent diplomacy and insane intimidate (+18(19 vs crowds)) and her ability to remove the "after" penalties from intimidate with Disarming Threat Deed. Good perception, and very good disguise (+17 all the time, and with another +10 with time to buff). She can also use the Arcane CLW wand. :P
@Soul - She sorta had one previously. But then, I don't think she knew. Either way is fine by me : )
@New people - Hello!
Nice to see you! And welcome : )
@Discussion - We simply used telepathy*, it was easiest. Might make it difficult to find the paged though ... :P
*off-site forum
@Regarding tweaking: May we know on which merits we were picked before doing that?
For example, since Scrolls/Wands are refunded and Castor basically has access to a whole library granting him more or less all the wizard spells he wants, it may make sense for Daria to have a greater focus on bard-only spells.
But if she was picked on the merit of Wand-less Cure-Light-Wounds(The arcane one still is on her class list and freely useable so maybe it would make sense to swap it out) and repeat casting of Silence spells for utility reasons then that would be counter-productive.
@Regarding Crafting: May I make a suggestion there: What if the guard values it, stores it, then requisitions it back to anyone on the squad that crafted it at a discount(75% cost)? It would screw less with WBL and may encourage people to take different crafting feats-
What I mean to say: since even consumables get resupplied freely to keep WBL at the correct level, since there is no loot, then any crafting(even if it cost a feat) will unbalance wealth partywise, since unlike in a standard setting, adjusting loot to "equalise" the party gear or cutting back on it if everybody gets crafted stuff is not an available mechanic.
(As one of the new guys it's probably not my place to bring this up, but the potential power discrepancy of some party members having "locked" almost-double WBL(if Wondrous Items are half cost, most of the budget WILL go into those, especially for classes less inclined to be armor/weapon dependent) compared to others may be pretty unbalancing in the long run. I'm also a caster and Castor could provide spells for my crafting(if i was to pick up a crafting feat in the future...Daria's big on books, knowledge, and tinkering(Disable Device) so I could well see her get inspired by her fellow guards and try to make something herself.), so I'm mostly worried about the non-casting members of our unit there. It totally makes sense for the Crafter to profit most, but a full mark-up could possibly be too strict)
Also, it was said that it was possible to run a business by the side. Would Castor not be able to bypass the Guard by crafting directly for his colleagues, as a private contractor?(Not suggesting that but that may be an argument for the guard to NOT use full prices in such cases).
@barracks, I have found Castor using downtime rules to design it in discussion. Is there a way to "invest" in it? Or will the amount we can spend on our guard station also raise with levels/"promotions"?
@Downtime earning - Well, to be fair, we was sorta inside a vampire infested building lately : P
Ophelia has her shop and a few weeks of work there to do : )
@Crafting - My hunger for Wondrous Items dictate that I vote in favour of 'group benefit', but I can easily see how things can get out of hand.
Perhaps a gentleman/womans agreement to only spend the excess stuff on 'fun' things and sidegrades, instead of raw power-up items? (ie a Figurine of the Silver Raven instead of a Amulet of Natural Armour +2)
On the subject of Crafting: Magic Items, and by extension, Crafting Feats, are strong enough that I think people would take them, even they only applied personally.
@tweaking: Understood, Chief. I'll do my best.
@barracks: Good to know, then at some point that will come up anyway.
@crafting
yes, diene, my point exactly. They are very strong, and very useful. And they scale very well with level, if you go by recommended wealth.
basically the proposed handling would, assuming as a wizard most of castors equipment will be wondrous items(with an odd ring or rod), translate to around a +80% bonus on WBL on one character with no increase for the others, which heavily counteracts the UCam 25% for group-bonus.
Technically, if you compare it to a normal campaign, it's true that A(vailability) would be a problem. But the result would be the same:
Per the raw recommendation, one person "pays" the feat, and then everybody gets to cherry-pick what they need(dependent on spell availability) and the group gets a bonus to their overall WBL.
Note that the caster does not get anything here that the group does not. Everybody gets to pick, everybody has the reduced price.
In said regular game, imagine forcing the caster to pay full price for the items he crafts for anybody except himself. Now, everybody else in the group has access to all the things he can craft, but all have to pay full price for it. While he can craft for himself at half cost. So at LEAST those other party members get bonus availability of items. Even if they pay same price as before.
And that's basically the situation we would create here. Except, of course, that the other party members already had item availability to start with and still pay the full price, thus gain nothing at all.
I'm all in favor of giving whoever spends a feat for crafting a bonus, since pricing is the only gain they have in this case, but cutting the remainder of the group off from benefitting seems against the intent no matter how I try to wrap my mind around it.
As was mentioned, they are so strong that people would consider them even if they only apply personally. I know Daria would do that, and then balance is completely blown out of the water, because then some members of the group(mostly the casters) would run around with about double the equipment-value of the other half of the group(non-casters).
Until they pick up smithing and pick up master craftsman as a feat to make their own weapons and armor just to catch up.
If the power level is a concern, I think Ophelia made a nice suggestion too, with a group benefit translating into "gimmicky" or situational items?
Or maybe Castor only really is allowed to craft for himself(considering his raw materials come from the guard), and his "spare time" is requisitioned by the Guard to craft items for them(as organization), while as compensation his group receives some extras from storage?
(In that way, you would get to pick what we get, not us. We get something extra but can't choose because it depends on what they have surplus of. That could be a way to give us one-shot items we could need in our next investigation, it could be a way to hand us buff/healing-wands, minor wondrous items, or something funky we would never spend wealth on(considering the price, how often is a Bottle of Air really worth its cost?)).
It's definitely a difficult balance act, and i'm glad you are willing to have a discussion about it. I don't see an optimal solution myself, admittedly, I just feel the one originally proposed is a slippery sloped one.
Thanks very much for picking my submission in what must have been a touch process of going through so many great applications.
Here's the repost of Isama's role:
The Druid spell list has pretty much a bit of everything in it so I can modify according to what kind of mission we think we'll be going on :). This is one of the most well rounded character's I've made. Hopefully it works out okay.
No opinion on crafting personally. I'll go with whatever the decision is.
Two minor questions on the crunch though.
1. Traits. I picked up two regional traits. They're not overpowered by any means I don't think and they fit the two very different phases of Isama's life thus far but I know that generally you're not supposed to pick two traits of the 'same type'. Is Isama alright on that?
2. HP. There's some differences on what 'Half HP' actually means and I think the interpretation I go with may not be the standard one. Since on a druid's d8 the average would be 4.5 (From (1+8)/2 ) what I do is alternating between 4+1 and 5+1 each level up. Should I use some other standard for 'half hp +1'?
Reporting in!
Usually in pathfinder you take half rounded up for HP after first level.
So it would be 5 every level after first.
Welcome, everyone!
....
The bird flew into the room and circled Castor several times.
"Mastermaster, thenewreinforcementsarecomin'."
Castor gets up from his chair, uses a decanter to fill a small glass with water and with a gesture invites the bird to drink.
”Calm down, Squeeky. Drink a bit and tell me what you were able to learn about them.”
Squeeky settles on the rim of the glass and enjoys the taste of clear water for a moment. Then he rises his small head, looks at Castor and chirrups a bit more calmly.
”Therearefiveofthem, master. MyfriendBloodyOnefromCentralwasabletolookattheirfiles. AndIsawthemwithmyowneyes. Oneisasmallgirl, likesreading, veryagile, veryfriendly.”
”A small girl?” asks Castor surprised.
”Yesmaster, BloodyOnesayssheishalfsomethingTien, IthinkMing, orBink.”
”Oh, a hafling. That explains a lot. Please continue, my friend.” Castor smiles.
”Otheroneisabittaller, dressedallinred, likethatgirlfromoneofthefairytails, theonewiththewerewolf.” Squeeky continues ”Shetriestobewittyandiswellmuscled.” the bird pauses. ”AndBloodyOnetoldmeshesayssheishalfawsome. Shewroteitasaraceinherapplicationform. ButIdonotknowwhatthatmeans.”
”If she wrote that, she must be half mad as well.”
”Whatraceishalfawesomehalfmad, master?”
”Usually the problematic one… Never mind, Squeeky. Please tell me about the others.”
”Thirdoneisalongtimeguard, shecarriesoneofthosefiresticksyoutoldmethesouthernnationmakes. BloodyOnesayssheistrouble. Ormaybeintrouble, heisaconfusedbirdsometimes.”
”If her name is De Morgan, I have heard about her. Some say she is a straight edge, some say she is a lunatic.”
”Isshehalfmadtoo, master?”
”I seriously doubt that, Squeeky. More likely she has a habit of stepping on someone’s toes.”
”Thatshouldnotbeabigproblem, master, sheisquitesmalltoo.”
”It is not a question of size and weight, my boy. I will explain it to you later. Now what about the last two?” Castor asks.
”Thelastwomenisashortonetoo. Darkskined. Seemscheerfuland…fascinatedbyveveryaspectofthecity. Hasanicescimitarthingie. ShesawmeandIthinkshelikesme. Sheisnicetononbipedals.”
”Non-bipedals? You just continue to surprise me, my little friend. So, have your parrot friend read anything about her? ”
”Hementionedtherewasonewordonthetopofherform. Inlargeletters. Itwas… “ the bird pauses. ”Enthusiastic!” he shrills happily.
”Oh, that probably means they want to put her on the front line. Makes sense. ”
”Enthusiasticmeansfrontliner?” the thrush asks.
”No, it just means she is expandable. As are we all. So, what about the last one? Is it a woman too? ”
”Nomaster, butheisalsoverticallychallenged. Hemustbemalebecauseheisveryhairy. Andhewalkslikeafortress. BloodyOnesaidhehailsfromAbsolom. Wasaninvestigatortherebeforeitallwentsouthbound. Buthereallylooksmorelikeaonemanarmythananinvestigator.”
”Well, we will just have to wait and see, Squeeky. You are a good boy. Have a treat.”
@crafting - I have no strong opinion at the moment, I will have to give it a thought.
Hmmm... I wasn't really thinking about it in a "inter-party" level of balance so much as an "executing the CR system with a final blade" balance.
With 25% extra gold to spend on Wondrous Items, right now, Diene alone would be getting a +2 Hit/Damage, +1 AC. For one person spending one feat, that is also benefiting 6 other people.
Diene is already strong enough to have a very fair chance of punching out a Polar Bear in an arena pit fight, and with that buff would have it flat out.
Not to mention all the buffs other people would get, all for one feat.
Filling this out now.
I do enjoy being a one-maned army.
You do have a pretty awesome mane on the front there.
Crafting is very strong and I'm still not sure If I want to grab Master Craftsman or not. It would cost me two feats though, and as a gunslinger, I'm feat-starved enough. On the other hand, allowing Castor's crafting to benefit everyone is also a bit unfair as it will just make things silly to manage for the GM. I think I'm going to agree with the GM's original proposal of Crafting only effecting the crafter's WBL.
In other news, I'm going to add Merciful Bullets to my arsenal because the other options for non-lethal damage as a Gunslinger kind of suck.
Ok, that is the rough draft. Will have to buy some more mundane gear and such.
You have very interesting choice in traits. :P
If you'd like a copy of my formatting with all the bolding in place, I'm sure I can pastebin it to you.
Sorry, I used your's as a base to build on. Creating those extensive stat blocs is the one thing I hate about Pbp.
Hmmm... I wasn't really thinking about it in a "inter-party" level of balance so much as an "executing the CR system with a final blade" balance.
...
Not to mention all the buffs other people would get, all for one feat.
All true. I just brought it up as a point to consider. Naturally, whatever decision is made if fine with me, but I prefer speaking up if I notice something that MAY be a problem. Not has to be, but...well, better to bring it to attention when the call is made than do so a few months down the line.
As for the extra power, thats always a point-of-view thing i think. For the price of a standard action and a spell slot, there's haste which is arguably immensely powerful as buff. Or, looking at Level 7 bard, good hope with +2 attack/damage/saves/skills/ability checks, for 7 minutes and the whole team in one casting.
Of course thats action economy to consider since it takes up a caster round but you'll easily punch out two polar bears in that arena if you include regular buffing in the equation, regardless of extra wealth.
I totally understand what you mean though, hence the suggestion of a form of compromise in which we don't get raw power, similar to what Ophelia said.
Ophelia's idea is pretty cool, and I'd go with that one if we don't go with my personal preference which is, "Crafting Feats become WAAAY op later levels, so it's best to just have them no go from the start."
~~
And yeah, the thing with those buffs, is that they were probably going to happen anyway if we were being inclined to optimize, and that they would totally stack with the increased gold. It'd be like spending one feat to get a free buff round every combat, that stacks with your normal buff round. Which is potent, to understate. Sure, the upgrades I would be getting for example aren't quite as good as good hope... but they're action economy free.
Which leads to enemies needed more and more CR to keep up. Which leads to more of those accidental "Oops, didn't know this monster was Undercr'd and wiped the team with one AoE save or suck followed by high dps".
You don't enjoy high level rocket tag Diene? :) I completely get what you're saying.
I enjoy it for PvP madness that everyone agrees is unbalanced and is just for the joy of building high level characters, and then seeing them turned to Stone with DC 50+ saves, blown up by dozens of necklaces of fireballs, and annihilated by full attacks from 3000 feet away.
I don't enjoy it for campaigns. :P
I totally understand, but then it's as you say...crafting should be gone outright, or available to all.
I hinted at it earlier but I have no real problem eventually picking up that single crafting feat I need to boost my WBL up to Character Level+2
Your description is accurate, it means permanent buffs that don't interfere with action economy. Totally worth it even if it only affects yourself.
Either way, I'm fine. ^_^ and hey, we don't need to tell the captain If I let you borrow my Belt of Physical Might for a while then. Magic items do adjust for size, right?
Just tell him you have JRPG-style as a preference for your belt size. I think Squall uses glue to keep his on.
I think I'm pretty much done looking over things. With equipment and skills, there was no real option to change much without impacting who she is and what she can do.
The only thing altered right now was Spells. I swapped out Investigative Mind(which our wizard recently aquired and will probably run with page-bound ephiphany) for Cacophonous Call(reasoning: Nauseated is nice to inflict no matter if you want a lethal or non-lethal takedown, or just want to get away from somewhere in a hurry. Save is unfortunate on bard spells but if it looses utility I may swap out at a later level.).
Instead of Investigative Mind, she will run Heightened Awareness, which boosts her Take 10 on Knowledge to 21 and Perception to 13(thus also helping with traps).
Timely Inspiration replaced Cure Light Wounds...I believe if we get wounded, it can be a reasonable expense to use a Wand to cure our team. So not sure if i should dedicate one of the limited spell slots to this.
I'm on the edge about Undetectable Alignment. I kind of feel like it would fit her, but then again, we may not get any good mileage out of it. Invisibility stays. So much utility even at higher levels in that spell that it's probably nice if our primary caster need not prepare it.
I suppose I should head on over to the Guard Post and finish my transfer, then?
(I will further refine Daria's backstory, but I have an university exam coming up tomorrow and another on thursday. It will be done this week though.)
Depends on the item, but generally. Just don't put in your report (and don't get caught) and you should be okay for temp swaps.Alright: proposed feat so non-casters have an option.
** spoiler omitted **
I've set it to 25% because a single crafting feat might give more, but only on some equipment.
Thoughts?
Sounds fine to me. Considering I would have easy access to a crafting feat, but on the other hand, CAN wear armor and will use weaponry, and some good stuff comes in form of rings and rods, I would very much consider this Feat even at 25%. I would probably run some calculations after producing a shopping list, but to me, it seems very valid on first glance.
Of course, that means we need to keep this campaign going until level 9 so I can pick it up ^_^
RPing a stone person in stone armor is going to be....loud.
Loud?
Wait until Ophelia applies too much oil one day and slips down a flight of stairs 4 in the morning :P
(because she doesn't sleep, 4 in the morning is an excellent time to tinker and do stuff. No-one to bother you! She has, due to popular demand/promises of violence, rescheduled all her violin playing to daytime^^)
hm. well, my silence is just 30 seconds. Possibly enough to silence sir-clinks-a-lot in critical situations though.
But with Ophelia...wait, you're a clockwork construct, you don't need to get up and pee in the middle of the night so why do you go down stairs at that time? Would it not be simpler if you just have all your work-stuff in your place and tinker the night away? (that last part includes some envy over not having to sleep...the books she could read...)
I totally understand, but then it's as you say...crafting should be gone outright, or available to all.
...
Either way, I'm fine. ^_^ and hey, we don't need to tell the captain If I let you borrow my Belt of Physical Might for a while then. Magic items do adjust for size, right?Depends on the item, but generally. Just don't put in your report (and don't get caught) and you should be okay for temp swaps.
Alright: proposed feat so non-casters have an option.
** spoiler omitted **
I've set it to 25% because a single crafting feat might give more, but only on some equipment.
Thoughts?
Awesome feat. I'm actually thinking about switching out Precise Shot for it. The -4 for firing into melee might be too hard, even with a firearm though. To be clear, if I do decide to switch it in, my starting gear will have the added 25%?
hm. well, my silence is just 30 seconds. Possibly enough to silence sir-clinks-a-lot in critical situations though.
But with Ophelia...wait, you're a clockwork construct, you don't need to get up and pee in the middle of the night so why do you go down stairs at that time? Would it not be simpler if you just have all your work-stuff in your place and tinker the night away? (that last part includes some envy over not having to sleep...the books she could read...)
She does have most of her stuff in her room (or in her shop). But she can get restless too : P
(Jokes aside, Ophelia isn't *that* loud simply walking around ^^)
Aw man, I want it too. But I have NO free feats until level 9, unless I take some fighter levels. :P
She does have most of her stuff in her room (or in her shop). But she can get restless too : P(Jokes aside, Ophelia isn't *that* loud simply walking around ^^)
On a similar note, any job openings in that shop of yours? For an clockwork-interested-apprentice?(its in one of my traits:"You have studied clockwork mechanisms and other mechanical wonders.", i'm not just making that up as we go...just figure with disable device and no craft, I got very good at taking them apart and not so good at putting them into working condition again ;) ).
I figure I could hang out with you a bit, help with tinkering, then once, sometime in the future, another level comes up, spend a point on the relevant craft-skill for fluff reasons and REAL helping out.
I just don't see Mia a.: running her own business, or b.: being taken serious by anybody if she did. And c.: having her ONLY read books in her room during downtime may be a bit boring to RP in the long term.
Yeah, starting equipment as well.
Is the feat too awesome?
Na, but as with all Feats that increase effective WBL is just scales great.
At level 2? WBL is 1000. Would be 1250...not really that great.That Weapon Focus or Weapon Specialization may have more impact.
Or patching up your weak save with a +2 Feat.
At level 10? WBL is 62000. Would be 77500, which is easily an extra +1 on that weapon and then some. Or a +2 to all saves with a better Cloak of Resistance. Or, maybe, almost both of these, depending on how you spread your wealth.
Level 14? WBL is 185,000...or 231,250 with this. You see where this goes...
It's not the feat thats too awesome, it's the increase in scaling with levels, but that is true for every crafting feat, too, and the reason I even brought it up.
Plus, you can always balance it out with the drawbacks you stated. That prototype-unit may not work reliably under certain circumstances, or have side effects. Or someone may blackmail said guard into doing something. I think things will work out.
Additionally, it depends how often promotions will occur. If you intend to keep this campaign in the lower levels, then the power of this feat will be diminished. If it goes up into higher levels, it will be amplified.
@Feat - The feat is really nice : ) Miiiiight shuffle around my selection ...
(The powerlevel feels about the same as Craft X Items, which means towards the upper ends of things)
@Mia - Perhaps : )
There used to be two people working the shop, but now only Ophelia is left. She might use a hand : )
@Items - I think I will keep it simple this level then.
Cloak of Protection +1 - 1000gp
Upgrade armour to +1 - 1000gp
Ring of Protection +1 -2000gp
and 500 gp in a 'bribe' fund :P
We had a month of downtime, so 21 days of actual downtime work!
1
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Total 21 days : )
Total earnings: 123.6gp
I do enjoy being a one-maned army.
Just remember a thrush said that :-)
Alright: proposed feat so non-casters have an option.
Better Budget:...
I've set it to 25% because a single crafting feat might give more, but only on some equipment.
Cool, I like that, although it is not aimed at Castor. It might have great RP consequences... It certainly does not mean, everybody should take it now...
RPing a stone person in stone armor is going to be....loud.
There is an oil, that could help a bit... it reduces the penalties by 1
Well, just a small bit.We should probably use you as a decoy :-)
Awesome feat. I'm actually thinking about switching out Precise Shot for it. The -4 for firing into melee might be too hard, even with a firearm though. To be clear, if I do decide to switch it in, my starting gear will have the added 25%?
I would not do that. Remember at this point you get +2000 gp. That is nice, but not having Precice Shot could be fatal. Most shots probably will be into melee.
And from RP perspective, it is even worse. De Morgan should be a good shot after all.