Crafting & Co.
I know the issue is more or less resolved at the moment, but here are my thoughts on the topic...
- It may be unbalancing if overused, but there is still the time factor to consider - there might me relatively little time for the crafting between "missions" in the future - certainly little time for 1 crafter making items for 7 users
- One of the reasons Castor has the feat was that he wanted to invest in the guard station (and still wants to do so in the future) and still have available funds for his own items
- Do not forget Castor may not even want to make items for everybody. He likes crafting and he is usually friendly and forthcoming, but he is nobody's b***h ;-)
- I believe we will have available funds in the future, that are not based on and requisitioning resources from Headquoters - we will be free to do whatever we want with it (and I am sure if we use it for crafting, GM can always lower the recources available to us even without us knowing the reasons)
- Some items we may borrow between ourselves, but while it is certainly okay to have secrets from our superiors, it is definitely no okay to try to outsmart the GM
- Castor will probably want to spend a lot of time acquiring new spells, making scrolls and improving/securing our station (he is a bit paranoid), so his time for crafting will be even more limited
- While the new feat is nice, there are so many good and flavor-full feats that in my opinion overshadow it, I would be hard-pressed to choose it, unless it fitted with my backstory
- It may be unbalancing if overused, but there is still the time factor to consider - there might me relatively little time for the crafting between "missions" in the future - certainly little time for 1 crafter making items for 7 users
=> Totally true, but in that case we should maybe, as a team, agree to limit it to one person. Otherwise multiple people may turn to crafting. Daria won't until, say, Level 9, but still, 2 or 3 crafters could have an easier time producing for 6 or 7 people unless downtime becomes very scarce. - One of the reasons Castor has the feat was that he wanted to invest in the guard station (and still wants to do so in the future) and still have available funds for his own items
=> I agree, hence why I also asked about investing in the guard station. I did intend to support, not duplicate your role in this. As said, Daria wants to contribute as much as she can, and that is one option she may opt to pursue. - Do not forget Castor may not even want to make items for everybody. He likes crafting and he is usually friendly and forthcoming, but he is nobody's b***h ;-)
=>Utterly true. Nothing to add here. But even one single item made at half price may be a huge deal depending on what the item is, it's not necessary for you to become a item factory for that to happen :) - I believe we will have available funds in the future, that are not based on and requisitioning resources from Headquoters - we will be free to do whatever we want with it (and I am sure if we use it for crafting, GM can always lower the recources available to us even without us knowing the reasons)
=> Yes, that will be seen, and how it will work out, with what kind of restrictions or practical applications. - Some items we may borrow between ourselves, but while it is certainly okay to have secrets from our superiors, it is definitely no okay to try to outsmart the GM
=> Main point for my reply in this format: I by no means meant to outsmart the DM. Sorry if it came across that way. It was more of a way of "my personal WBL is higher, but IF I share anything from that, then I lose it." In a way of not breaking the intent that its not a global increase but possible I could still let someone else profit if thats in the best interest of the team, without telling our superior(but of course getting clearance from the GM) - Castor will probably want to spend a lot of time acquiring new spells, making scrolls and improving/securing our station (he is a bit paranoid), so his time for crafting will be even more limited
=> Yep, but you also have lots of newbies to order around who can help you with those tasks. If you want, I can try and test the security as-is, for example. - While the new feat is nice, there are so many good and flavor-full feats that in my opinion overshadow it, I would be hard-pressed to choose it, unless it fitted with my backstory
=> Same here. Daria is friendly and booksmart. She likes tinkering with stuff and understanding how things work. But right now, there's no feat-space to pick up crafting until a few levels later without giving up something that defines her or guarantees basic efficiency.
- Some items we may borrow between ourselves, but while it is certainly okay to have secrets from our superiors, it is definitely no okay to try to outsmart the GM
=> Main point for my reply in this format: I by no means meant to outsmart the DM. Sorry if it came across that way. It was more of a way of "my personal WBL is higher, but IF I share anything from that, then I lose it." In a way of not breaking the intent that its not a global increase but possible I could still let someone else profit if thats in the best interest of the team, without telling our superior(but of course getting clearance from the GM)
It was nothing personal, just a general comment.
Thinking about this particular issue, we would not be able to outsmart him anyway. Because the crafter may only lend items crafted from his own WBL, so it does not change the overall wealth. And there are not that many items which are good for everyone, and those that are would be missed by the crafter at that point anyway (e.g. Cloak of Resistance) unless he stayed behind.Anyway, I did not aim to continue the discussion. It just took me longer to sum up my stance regarding the matter and I wanted to have it here for future reference.
@GM: I do hope I will have my 5th lvl ready by tommorow. I already have the spells a skills finalized, favored class bonus will be +1 hp
The wizard bonus feat is Metamagic - Merciful spell (Cool thing is, it does not raise the spell level. And it might be needed in this campaign)
The headband has Knowledge(nobility) as associated skill and my new language is Polyglot
I am still thinking about what scrolls to make, second and third lvl are quite costly.
After I post it here, I will upload the new statblock into my profile page.
The only thing I want to hold off is choosing the general feat as I want to check the Unchained book first. But we may start to play without that one feat with no problem.
I'm going to hold off on the equipment feat for now. I'd like to see how Isama plays first. She's my first druid :). Kind of a non standard one to boot as the Urban Druid Archetype weakens the most iconic Druid ability of shape changing.
I kind of ran out of gear that I could buy anyway at this point with the 400 left from the WBL shopping. I think we have 1000 or 2000 extra now? Would pick up a Wand of Longstrider then. Seems like everybody loves that Druid spell.
Isama, we do not yet have said bonus. Whether we should get it or not is a matter of of much debate.
So do we do other things then Craft int his game?
Couldn't resist.
So when do we start RPing? I want to lumber through city streets solving crimes with a big club.
You might want to finish thy statsheet, if club-solving is your intent, Thirus. You have not done your attack modifiers on your weapon nor your skills, nor the vast majority of your feats.
You might want to finish thy statsheet, if club-solving is your intent, Thirus. You have not done your attack modifiers on your weapon nor your skills, nor the vast majority of your feats.
I am in talks with the GM to submit my stuff in a better format. I usually do my character creation in a .pdf which doesn't translate well to giant text blocs.
Dropped two hp from my total. Sadness. I think I'm ready to go though.
I don't think I'll be editing my sheet any more than it is. I'll leave the extra gold open for items we might need later.
Miss De Morgan...i'm so totally stealing your guard dossier idea when I rework my background later this week :)
On a side note: I'm just waiting on an answer regarding 2 spells from DM, but otherwise should also be ready to go.
Haha, happy to hear more people like it. Now let's go fight crime!
Whenever all of us are ready.
Also here's a thing:
Crackshot, good detective, competent leader. These are ideally De Morgan's strong points. A high intimidate bonus with the trait, "Larger than Life" prevents violence from breaking out frequently, although I feel that maybe I should also invest in Diplomacy. A high Acrobatics and Stealth check means that She's a highly mobile scout and good at stakeouts. Knowledge (Local) helps with gathering information for detective work, but Sense Motive is even more effective once suspects have been identified. In a straight confrontation, De Morgan should be able to put a terriffying amount of damage between Rapid Shot, Deadly Aim, Gun Training, and Up Close and Deadly. Merciful Bullets allow her to subdue citizens without killing them. Utility Shots can help with locks and things, but those are just small potatoes.
EDIT: Also, prologue sounds brilliant.
Added CMD.
Normally, for Rank, I'd suggest anyone but Diene to be the Junior Guard Sergeant, but it seems like Diene and Daria are the only people who haven't been either just hired or just demoted. Which means she has a chance. Maybe her cleanup of eleven and a half of the fourteen criminal organizations she previously worked for put a good word in for her. And it'd be funny. :P
Am I missing anything else?
Role:
As far as intimidating goes, even with your trait taken into account, Diene's got you beat by 6 or 7 depending on the circumstance, and she can ignore the "people become unfriendly afterwards" part of using intimidate. If you don't mind the overlap, I'm cool, but otherwise, you could probably use those ranks/trait elsewhere.
Also, speaking of intimidate, a little birdy gave me an idea, and I was wondering, how much would you price a Bear Pelt of the Bonebreaker with the Beast Shape II into a bear changed into a Beast Shape I into a wolf? :D
With the added scent ability, I would be a decent tracker! For 7 minutes a day. :P
True about the intimidate. Maybe I'll rethink that. Diplomacy is good to work with as well. I'll mull it over.
Not sure how rank is going to work out though, so I'll hold off on that. I thought all the recruits would be Junior Guards on arrival so that's what I put initially. I'm sort of inclined to leave it that way to make De Morgan even more grouchy.
I was under the impression Junior Guards weren't put on special squads unless they were being sent to die by their superiors, but a quick glance back at the story shows that doesn't seem to be the case. :P
Regardless the campaign info seemed to imply one of us would be the junior sergeant.
True about the intimidate. Maybe I'll rethink that. Diplomacy is good to work with as well. I'll mull it over.
Not sure how rank is going to work out though, so I'll hold off on that. I thought all the recruits would be Junior Guards on arrival so that's what I put initially. I'm sort of inclined to leave it that way to make De Morgan even more grouchy.
I know skill ranks are precious, but from the backstory I would assume CDM has ranks in intimidate. And she does not seem to be a diplomatic type anyway... ;-)
Yeah, but I've got plenty of skills where it makes backstory sense, so I've got a point dropped for the trained bonus and fluff/crunch combo. Doesn't mean I need to drop all 5 to max it. :P
True about the intimidate. Maybe I'll rethink that. Diplomacy is good to work with as well. I'll mull it over.
Not sure how rank is going to work out though, so I'll hold off on that. I thought all the recruits would be Junior Guards on arrival so that's what I put initially. I'm sort of inclined to leave it that way to make De Morgan even more grouchy.
also, you say you are a good scout, with stealth and acrobatics.
If so, you could end up scouting ahead with me. I got diplomacy covered, but I can't intimitate anybody(well, logical).We will inevitably have overlap on the guard. If you are both together, you can simply aid Diene, but in situations where Diene is not inmediately available, it definitely helps to have someone else capable of solving things this way.
Normally, for Rank, I'd suggest anyone but Diene to be the Junior Guard Sergeant, but it seems like Diene and Daria are the only people who haven't been either just hired or just demoted. Which means she has a chance. Maybe her cleanup of eleven and a half of the fourteen criminal organizations she previously worked for put a good word in for her. And it'd be funny. :P
Hey, it was just ONE criminal organization i worked for and helped cleaned up. Before then, i was a freelancing criminal most of my life. So i basically have a 100% success rate in destroying criminal organizations from the inside. You are totally right that could warrant a rank increase.
Of course, the fact I had only started cooperating with the local guards way AFTER getting involved with a crime syndicate could speak against a promotion, though.Also i think "(D) people update statlines with HP, AC, CMD, Fort, Ref, Will & Per." referred to the line displayed below your name, for easy access.
Yepp, Mia is spot on with the HP, AC ect stuff. Makes it easier for the GM to access stuff a bit quicker, especially for combats : )
@Overlap - There is plenty of skill overlap already and I don't think it will be too much of a problem : )
Isama would have to be a Junior Guard as she is pretty new to this whole thing. Let's say she did so well on her initial grunt patrols with level 5 druid fanciness that she was shuffled off to the special squads pretty rapidly. There were a lot of terrified petty muggers on her beat I'll have you know.
In terms of skills. Isama is a good tracker and can be probably be the best tracker in the group. Definitely the best Animal Handler. She's got a high Diplomacy as well though I think I don't need to go any higher and will just aid Daria on that. In terms of Knowledges she can focus on Nature with a few ranks here and there in Geo and Local. In her offtime she enjoys dancing and will work as a Guard for upstanding businesses :).
My take on Special Squad and Guard rank:
I think being transfered to this squad has nothing to do with rewards as survival expectations are not extremely high. As I understand it, there might be following reasons to be sent here:
- Central wants to punish or get rid of the person
- Central feels the person needs to be tested and hardened
- Central does not trust the person
- Central feels nobody important (=important citizen) will miss the person
- Central thinks the person will actually be useful here (combined with at least one more reason from above)
So it is more of a punishment than a reward.
The Guards here have same rank as elsewhere, but they are just more expandable.
The rank for newcomers has no correlation whatsoever with being in the "special" squad.
So there should be similar rank distribution as in any other squad (with the possible exception of Sorcerers etc.)
This does not mean they do not want us to succeed. They do, but they will shed no tears for the loses we incur along the way.
Of course, that is just my understanding (and the backstories support this)* and I might be wrong.
* to the best of my knowledge there was no criterion for this in the OOC selection process and I never gave it a thought before, it just looks that way IC now... ;-)
The list of scrolls I would like to scribe (remaining budget 1425 gp):
1st lvl – 25 gp / per scroll / takes 2 hours / total: 125 gp
Comprehend Languages
Discern Next of Kin
Expeditious Retreat
Heightened Awareness
Magic Weapon
2nd lvl – 150 gp / per scroll / takes 2 hours / total: 750 gp
Merciful Flurry of Snowballs
Merciful Frost Fall
Mirror Image
Spider Climb
Share Memory
3rd lvl – 375 gp / per scroll / takes 1 day/8 hours / total: 375 gp
Blood Calligraphy
Total costs: 1250
Total time: 3 days, 4 hours
Castor will spent some days searching for spell components (these should be without costs) and buys a blank book - I guess this costs as much as a new spellbook (15 gp)?
Can I add
* Central feels the guard is responsible for low morale in their current squad.
As a possible reason for re-assignment? Though that falls fairly neatly in 'Central wants to get rid of the person'.
- Central wants to get rid of the person
Could well be. If they took me on as a favor, that would be an easy way out of that.
- Central does not trust the person
Well, considering my history, I can't really blame them. Even if that is all in my past.
- Central feels nobody important (=important citizen) will miss the person
I know nobody important here and have no family or high-ranking friends. So, yeah.
- Central thinks the person may actually be useful here (combined with at least one more reason from above)
They may not have too much confidence in my personality, but my skills could definitely be useful from the protocols they have on me.
So I guess I can feel right at home here...for better or worse ;)
That'd make sense. Even Diene's not good enough to take down eleven and a half organizations in under three months. :P
@Castor/Scrolls - My magus has found great use of the Monkey Fish spell as a scroll. Perhaps it might be something for Castor : )? (Now that I think of it, I think I might have to get it for Ophelia ...)
@Ranks - *Stares intently at paper* "Again." Ophelia chimes, conveying a mixture of agitation and/or excitement. *Lifts paper are holds it up against the light* "The scribe has smudge the exact same spot. How strange! Must be defective somehow ..."
and
*NomNomNom "Paizo board hungry!" *NomNomNom* :P
Oh, by the way, any consideration over that custom item I suggested above?
There is currently a Sergeant (Abel Valdemar).
My intention was to move him on after the first adventure, and promote a PC to Junior Guard Sergeant. That didn't work when we couldn't seem to keep players. Hoping to do it after this one. He is only a few days from retirement!
"Nooooo! You can't do this. If you say it like this, thats bad luck! Nobody should have to die a few days from retirement..."
I'm quite fine/happy with being a Junior Guard Sorceress, if my magical talents are sufficient for that.
Otherwise, I'm not so certain I would have passed the Junior Guard rank considering my past.
@Springs, want me to take a look at that paper for you? See if I can reconstruct what it says?
I guess if you WANT to know, that means you get to know ;)
Am waiting on you GM, before I change all my char. stuff. No use changing it twice if you have corrections, questions, concerns, changes.
"If you are willing. My efforts have proven futile..."
Seeking to add some 'spells' to my book:
Monkey Fish 5gp
Detect Metal 5gp
Identify 5gp
Linebreaker 5gp
Cure Light Wounds** 5gp
Alchemical Allocation*/*** 40gp
Darkvision 40gp
Detect Thoughts 40gp
Focused Scrutiny 40gp
Lesser Restoration** 40gp
See Invisible 40gp
Vomit Swarm* 40gp
Total: 325gp (175gp left of allocation)
* Not 100% sure how Ophelia will use these. The first could merely be a trick to borrow the power of an ordinary potion? And the second could simply be a bottle full of spiders to throw at people :P
** A bit of extra healing can never hurt. This way, we can fix Wis damage on Isama or Int damage on Ophelia : )
*** This spell jumps for very nice to very very very nice if it is actually allowed to work on Elixirs. (Elixir of Vision is nice, Elixir of Dragon's Breath is cool [and useful!], Trollblood Elixir can be useful, ect) I might want to reassign a bit of wealth if it is allowed to work : )
10 2 hour passes, then a single full 8 hours, it looks like : )
(or, 28 hours aka 3 'work days' + 4 hours)
I think DM referred to this passage:
Creating an item requires 8 hours of work per 1,000 gp in the item's base price (or fraction thereof), with a minimum of at least 8 hours.
Potions and scrolls are an exception to this rule; they can take as little as 2 hours to create (if their base price is 250 gp or less). Scrolls and potions whose base price is more than 250 gp, but less than 1,000 gp, take 8 hours to create, just like any other magic item. The character must spend the gold at the beginning of the construction process.
Regardless of the time needed for construction, a caster can create no more than one magic item per day.
Meaning Scribe Scroll falls under item creation feats, and thus, scrolls count as magic item.
This passage COULD, however, also refer to the optional "speeding up" of production, but technically as worded it applies to any magic stuff, including scrolls.
I suppose DM doesn't want you guys to take tons of scrolls along now that you have reinforcements :)
by that calculation, it would be 11 days...
Less than 3 months on the force for Isama as she is still very much a wide eyed newcomer to the city. Think a little bit of Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt. So she's a Junior Guard at the moment.
True, but 10 of those days he would have 6 hours left over to do other stuff : )
When creating the scrolls, I based the times on this rule at the beginning of Magic Item Creation chapter:
Creating an item requires 8 hours of work per 1,000 gp in the item's base price (or fraction thereof), with a minimum of at least 8 hours. Potions and scrolls are an exception to this rule; they can take as little as 2 hours to create (if their base price is 250 gp or less). Scrolls and potions whose base price is more than 250 gp, but less than 1,000 gp, take 8 hours to create, just like any other magic item.
That said, GM is actually right. I made a mistake because I got confused with base price vs cost. So only 1st lvl spells take two hours, 2nd lvl spells take whole day/8 hours. The final creation time is 7 days, 2 hours.
@Castor - A scroll costs 25*CL*Spell Level to purchase.
Which means the base price of a second level scroll is 150gp
And 75 gp to craft : )
Which, in turn, means that your precious calculations are off. Unless your are making two of each scroll : )
When creating the scrolls, I based the times on this rule at the beginning of Magic Item Creation chapter:
Creating an item requires 8 hours of work per 1,000 gp in the item's base price (or fraction thereof), with a minimum of at least 8 hours. Potions and scrolls are an exception to this rule; they can take as little as 2 hours to create (if their base price is 250 gp or less). Scrolls and potions whose base price is more than 250 gp, but less than 1,000 gp, take 8 hours to create, just like any other magic item.That said, GM is actually right. I made a mistake because I got confused with base price vs cost. So only 1st lvl spells take two hours, 2nd lvl spells take whole day/8 hours. The final creation time is 7 days, 2 hours.
I think what the DM meant by the quoted part was that no matter how long it takes, you can only MAKE one magic item(precisely=scroll) per day.
Even if you had a epic scribe scroll feat that cuts the time to 5 minutes, that later part would only allow you to make 1 per day.
I agree that for scrolls and potions it would make sense to work something out with GM in this regard, but technically, as ophelia said, you would have 11 days of work making 11 scrolls, and 10 of those days you only spent 2 hours on them and can work on something non-magical for 6 hours.
HOWEVER, it only states that you can only CREATE one magic item per day. So technically, maybe you could overlap scroll writing and other magic item creations, as long as only one item per day is finished-
HOWEVER, it only states that you can only CREATE one magic item per day. So technically, maybe you could overlap scroll writing and other magic item creations, as long as only one item per day is finished-
This *could* work, but since one cannot work on two items, it is only possible at the start of a new project, sadly.
("A character can work on only one item at a time. If a character starts work on a new item, all materials used on the under-construction item are wasted.")