Looking around quickly at the sound of wings, Wart chugs down the larger vial, and sputters. He drops to a knee and howls. His joints pop and crack, moving beneath his skin. He grows a fine hair, almost fur-like all over his exposed skin. He howls and beats his chest, almost monkey-like and mixes another bomb quickly, hurling it at the Tiefling in-front of Valeron. He screams and hoots, and begins posturing at the Tiefling in-front of Valeron, dancing about on his knuckles and feet, and beating his chest.
Mechanics:
Perception check: 1d20 + 6 ⇒ (17) + 6 = 23 Good, but not good enough.
Move Action: Drink Mutagen
Standard Action: Toss bomb at Tiefling in AA12. Excluding Addie, but adding the Tiefling in AC12 to the effect through Splash Weapon Mastery
Touch Attack Roll at Tielfing in AA12: 1d20 + 7 ⇒ (11) + 7 = 18
Damage if applicable: 1d6 + 3 ⇒ (5) + 3 = 8 fire
Tielfing in AC12 must make Ref save vs DC 14 or take 4 fire splash damage
Fort save vs DC 13: 1d20 + 5 + 2 ⇒ (6) + 5 + 2 = 13[/dice]
EDIT: added spoiler tags to clean up post EDIT: no really, I meant Valeron EDIT: forgot poison save
Wart lobs a bomb, as he shakes off the effects of the imp's poison, and fire engulfs the hapless tiefling that was fighting Valeron and burns another.
Tieflings begin scattering everywhere. The burned tiefling runs off down the southern corridor. The two flanking Bron swing rather ineffectually, and begin to leave the battle. One new tiefling comes out of the room to the north, and takes a half-hearted swing at Valeron, not even really coming close.
Kevorin moves toward Bron, taking a swing at the fleeing tiefling, but is unable to connect in his groggy state.
Once more, swinging his flail, with a determined look in his eye, Bron tries to connect with any part of the tiefling.
Attack:1d20+6
Damage:1d8+3
Damn. Sorry about that Bron. I'll retcon my action for you and use your attack roll.
Back a few posts...
Bron tries to shake the dizziness from his head and takes a swing at the tiefling who had previously wounded him, landing a solid shot, but not enough to kill the creature.
Valeron squints trying to roughly gauge how far Morhgrim is away from him. Guessing he's just out of range of Iomedae's blessing he delays requesting help from the Inheritor just yet and swings his longsword at the new tiefling in front of him.
As Addie finishes reading her scroll, a burly dog with luminescent white fur suddenly appears in a bright flash of light. A low, menacing growl rumbles from the dog's chest as it lunges at the tiefling standing next to one of the dancing lights. As the celestial dog attacks, Addie casts Daze on the hapless tiefling.
Addie's summoned dog appears in square AC-12 and attacks the tiefling in AD-12. Attack roll: 1d20 + 3 ⇒ (11) + 3 = 14; Damage: 1d6 + 3 + 2 ⇒ (1) + 3 + 2 = 6 (added in +2 damage for Smite Evil); Free action to attempt trip if successful hit - Combat Maneuver roll: 1d20 + 3 ⇒ (9) + 3 = 12 vs. tiefling's CMD to knock prone.
Addie's Daze spell has a Will DC 14 to resist. I'm assuming the dog attacks before Addie can complete her Daze spell. Addie holds her position behind Valeron.
Bron swings his flail at the tiefling trying to escape and lands the ball of the flail solidly across the tiefling's face, causing the now lifeless tiefling to slump to the ground.
Bron then steps to flank the dazed tiefling with Addie's summoned dog.
The dazed tiefling stands there with fear in his eyes, resigned to his fate.
Morghrim, heeding Kevorin's advice, looks back and sees three tieflings rush past the intersection to the east.
Morghrim, Wart, Kevorin, and Valeron are up. If someone other than me wants to run Kevorin for this round, that would be fine.
Whirling around, Morghrim charges back down the corridor, ending movement in AQ12 and making an attack. As Morghrim is unwounded, he switches to his Destruction judgement for extra hitting power.
Wart pauses for the briefest of moments to see if he can hear anything coming up behind them.
Seeing that the tiefling next to Bran is surrounded, Wart mixes up another bomb, and rushes forward into the light, using his momentum to fling the bomb farther in an attempt to hit the Tiefling in-front of Morghrim. The bomb overshoots its target, ricocheting off the wall and heading up the passage where the Tiefling's were running.
Actions & Rolls:
Perception check to detect any noises behind them: 1d20 + 6 ⇒ (2) + 6 = 8
Move action: Move forward to AA12
Standard Action: Mix & throw bomb
Touch attack to hit upper-right corner of AR12, affecting damaged Tiefling in AS12 and Tiefling Boss in AS11 with splash damage: 1d20 + 6 - 8 ⇒ (5) + 6 - 8 = 3 MISSED!
New direction for bomb: 1d8 + 1 ⇒ (2) + 1 = 3 which translates as per the rules into hitting in square AS8.
If DM Talomyr allows, the tiefling in AS9 could take splash damage, Reflex DC 14 for half of 4 fire damage.
"Well aren't you just a pesky little devil?" Addie hisses in pain as she whirls around and faces the imp. Realizing that there is nothing that she can do to the infernal creature, she chooses to withdraw to allow Valeron to place his shielding presence between herself and the imp.
Full round action to Withdraw from the imp without provoking AoO; move to square AB-13.
Meanwhile, the celestial riding dog summoned by Addie lunges again at the tiefling standing before it.
Summoned dog attacks tiefling in AD-12. Attack roll: 1d20 + 3 + 2 ⇒ (13) + 3 + 2 = 18 (included flanking bonus); Damage: 1d6 + 3 + 2 ⇒ (6) + 3 + 2 = 11 (added +2 damage for Smite Evil); Free action to attempt trip if successful hit - Combat Maneuver roll: 1d20 + 3 ⇒ (13) + 3 = 16 vs. tiefling's CMD to knock prone.
Following its attack, the celestial dog vanishes in a flash of light. (2 round duration is expired.)
As he waits to assess the situation, Valeron frowns when he sees the devilish imp appear again behind Addie. As the witch passes the cleric, he gives a nod as he steps forward, hefting his shield up, and stabbing at the creature to drive it back.
In his cautious advance, his swing goes wide as the outsider flits out of reach.
Ok it's been over 48 hours since his last post, so I'll take Bron's action for him.
Bron trudges past multiple dead tieflings and sidesteps Wart to get closer to the imp.
Two of the tieflings escape, including the leader withdraw action, sorry Morghrim no AoO for you.
Knowing their fates are already sealed the remaining two tieflings step forward to attack Morghrim and Kevorin, in hopes of taking one of their enemies with them to Hell.
A tiefling takes a vicious swing with a longsword, trimming Morghrim's hair but doing little else.
The tiefling attempting to attack Kevorin swings wildly with his blade, missing and nearly throwing himself off balance.
Morghrim, Wart, and Kevorin are up. Followed by the Imp, Addie, Valeron, and Bron.
Ok it's been over 48 hours since his last post, so I'll take Bron's action for him.
Bron trudges past multiple dead tieflings and sidesteps Wart to get closer to the imp.
Two of the tieflings escape, including the leader withdraw action, sorry Morghrim no AoO for you.
Knowing their fates are already sealed the remaining two tieflings step forward to attack Morghrim and Kevorin, in hopes of taking one of their enemies with them to Hell.
A tiefling takes a vicious swing with a longsword, trimming Morghrim's hair but doing little else.
The tiefling attempting to attack Kevorin swings wildly with his blade, missing and nearly throwing himself off balance.
Morghrim, Wart, and Kevorin are up. Followed by the Imp, Addie, Valeron, and Bron.
Morghrim looks truly aghast as the Tiefling's blade cuts off one of his freshly washed and pampered braids.
Ye filthy, dirty, Mammon-humping, fiend-blooded BASTARD! he roars in fury as he lays down his precious Glaive, trusting in Shelyn to protect him as he leans in for an almighty headbutt.
AC is 21 due to SoF and Protection judgement, for his AOO
Seeing the rather angry dwarf try to make an unarmed attack the tiefling slices again with his sword, but manages to lean right into Morghrim's incomming headbut, and promptly falls to the ground.
Morghrim takes a moment to smirk in satisfaction, before using his move action to move down the corridor, going round the corner to give chase to the other Tieflings. Along the way he straps his shield to his arm, still unarmed.
Heeding Wart's call for light, Addie directs her Dancing Lights to move down the hallway to the halfling's location. (Move lights to squares AR-16, AS-15, AS16, and AS-17.)
"I guess we should follow after them!" Addie calls to Valeron and Bron as she hurries down the hallway after Wart and the others. (Addie takes a full round action to move 75 ft. to square AP-16 to stand behind Wart.)
Squinting his eyes, Valeron holds his shield a bit higher, trying to find the winged imp again. Spotting nothing but more darkness, he looks back over his shoulder and sees everyone else has continued down the corridor.
"Well, damn"
Spinning on his heel, he jogs down the hall as fast as he can in his armor.
Run down the hallway to AK-18. Bron should have been able to make AL-18 if he ran?
The last of the injured tieflings hustles down the corridor, while the last remaining tiefling priest takes a few steps back and with a gleem in his eye appears to be waiting for the party to come get him.
The last of the injured tieflings hustles down the corridor, while the last remaining tiefling priest takes a few steps back and with a gleem in his eye appears to be waiting for the party to come get him.
Morghrim grins at the Tiefling.
Waiting for me to come to you eh? Ol' Morghrim ain't playing by your rules...
Morghrim moves forward 20 feet, pulling his loaded light crossbow from over his shoulder and falling to one knee, taking a shot at the Tiefling.
Morghrim's bolt sinks into the flesh of tiefling. The shot would have nearly dropped many of the tieflings you have faced today, but this one just grins at Morghrim.
Morghrim's bolt sinks into the flesh of tiefling. The shot would have nearly dropped many of the tieflings you have faced today, but this one just grins at Morghrim.
Oh, this is going to be fun... Morghrim thinks to himself, relishing the challenge.
Wart turns, searching and listening for a little winged friend, while pulling out a sling as he moves behind Addie so his back is to the light. He peers into the darkness and loads his sling with a stone.
Fire doesn't hurt this thing! What works?!?
Actions:
Move Action: move to AO18 (moved glaive identifier just below square)
Draw sling as part of a move action.
Perception check to detect the IMP: 1d20 + 6 ⇒ (16) + 6 = 22
Move action: load sling with bullet, provoking AoO
Ok, now that the boards are behaving a little better, we can move on. I still need an action from Kev for the current round. Addie, Valeron, and Bron can go ahead and post their actions for the next round. The imp is for all purposes out of this fight. Don't worry you'll see him again ;)
Ok, now that the boards are behaving a little better, we can move on. I still need an action from Kev for the current round. Addie, Valeron, and Bron can go ahead and post their actions for the next round. The imp is for all purposes out of this fight. Don't worry you'll see him again ;)
Please assume that, should he survive this fight, Morghrim will share the imp's weaknesses with the group (spoiler for me when me and Kev first encountered the Imp.) Morghrim will also promise to deal with the Imp next time, should it cross them again.
Don't forget there should be 20ft of normal light coming from Valeron's Light spell on his shield, too!
Looking ahead, Valeron wonders how the fight in the intersection is progressing. Standing next to Bron, he wonders if their best option is to cover the party's rear.
Move action back to AG-18 and will look both directions, reserving standard action. If nothing hostile appears, will use Virtue on self for +1HP
In the torch-like illumination of her Dancing Lights spell, Addie notices Morghrim's glaive laying at her feet. Feeling certain that the dwarf inquisitor will soon be in need of his favored weapon, Addie picks up the glaive and steps to the corner of the passage, preparing to toss it to him.
Addie picks up Morghrim's glaive and moves 10 ft to square AR-18. She also mentally directs her Dancing Lights to move to squares AS-16, 17, and 18.
In the torch-like illumination of her Dancing Lights spell, Addie notices Morghrim's glaive laying at her feet. Feeling certain that the dwarf inquisitor will soon be in need of his favored weapon, Addie picks up the glaive and steps to the corner of the passage, preparing to toss it to him.
Addie picks up Morghrim's glaive and moves 10 ft to square AR-18. She also mentally directs her Dancing Lights to move to squares AS-16, 17, and 18.
I love you. I was scared the imp wouldmake off with it :P
Sorry, folks. I forgot to mention that after the hectic week moving, I was going away from steady internet access for another week. Kev will first consider if there is a way to get around this priest, maybe through some side corridors. If not, he'll stay back a bit and help Morghrim with crossbow fire. Talomyr, please feel free to roll for me.
Welcome to those who have been chosen to play, and to those who choose to lurk as well.
First, I plan on starting the game one week from today. This could shift by a day or two in either direction depending on how real life treats me. That being said, I will give at least 24 hours warning prior to starting the game early, or at least provide notice if it is going to be later.
Second, even though you have provided me with character backgrounds already, I will require one more bit of information from each of you:
"One large assumption that Council of Thieves makes about the PCs is that none of them should be particularly fond of the way the government in Westcrown currently operates. This isn't to say that all the PCs must be anarchists, but a PC who blindly follows the unfair edicts of the established government really won't have a reason to join the Westcrown Rebels." (Bastards of Erebus pg. 10)
So, with that in mind, I need the reason(s) you have a problem with the government as is.
This thread would also be appropriate for further fleshing out of your backgrounds should you so choose, do not feel that you have to, but you are certainly more than welcome to.
The thread is can also be used to express your opinions about the composition of the party, and any suggestions you wish to make prior to the selection of the remaining two slots (as of this posting).
Well, Kev has not so much a problem with the government as he does the governing House, House Thrune. He needs to hook up with some powerful people to keep House Thrune from getting him. If he needs to bring down the government to stay safe, hey, why not!?
Do you have a problem with me taking the whole "Educated Warrior" shpiel from the Campaign Setting? 4 + Int skill points instead of my bonus feat at level one.
Fiddling with the character tonight. Maybe I missed this, but average starting gold or do we roll for it?
Do you have a problem with me taking the whole "Educated Warrior" shpiel from the Campaign Setting? 4 + Int skill points instead of my bonus feat at level one.
Fiddling with the character tonight. Maybe I missed this, but average starting gold or do we roll for it?
Do you have a problem with me taking the whole "Educated Warrior" shpiel from the Campaign Setting? 4 + Int skill points instead of my bonus feat at level one.
Fiddling with the character tonight. Maybe I missed this, but average starting gold or do we roll for it?
Do you have a problem with me taking the whole "Educated Warrior" shpiel from the Campaign Setting? 4 + Int skill points instead of my bonus feat at level one.
Fiddling with the character tonight. Maybe I missed this, but average starting gold or do we roll for it?
Not a problem at all, have at it.
Take average gold as well?
Go ahead and roll. If it is lower than the average, take the average.
Morghrim doesn't really trust government's too much anyway; he's neutral good leaning chaotic and has his own moral compass. He also thinks Westcrown is a cesspool of sin and corruption that needs a good deal of purging. No love for the government here.
Feel free to "cast a vote" for any of the characters you think would be a good fit. I've got my top 2 in mind, but could be swayed by popular opinion.
I believe Berwick will make an interesting character, I love halflings, and hes a very articulate poster who clearly thinks about what he types. He gets my vote, followed closely by Quei Drathan for a thought out bio. Just my 50 cents.
Feel free to "cast a vote" for any of the characters you think would be a good fit. I've got my top 2 in mind, but could be swayed by popular opinion.
I believe Berwick will make an interesting character, I love halflings, and hes a very articulate poster who clearly thinks about what he types. He gets my vote, followed closely by Quei Drathan for a thought out bio. Just my 50 cents.
Seconded for Berwick. He was one that I very much was sad to not be able to include in my CotCT.
I need at least a quick concept from you soon so that I can make an informed decision on the last two spots.
Hey, Tal! I'm finishing up my witch tonight. Here’s a bit of her background:
Black Addie was a foundling babe taken in by Ol' Meg, the Witch of [insert name of poorest section of Westcrown here]. All Ol' Meg found with the baby girl was an ancient, hand-drawn Harrow deck wrapped in a colorful Varisian pocketed scarf (both rarities in the Chelish city). Meg named the baby ‘Adalyn.’
As Adalyn grew into a young woman, Meg taught her the secrets of witchcraft, which consisted primarily of herbal medicine, fortune-telling, and looking after the poor and downtrodden of the district. It was Meg that taught Adalyn that something was very wrong with their world. That spouses were not meant to huddle at their windows hoping and fearing day after day that their loved ones returned from work safely. That parents were not meant to hush their children when questioned about what happened to their neighbors. That citizens were not meant to avert their eyes and hurry by as guardsmen beat old friends in the street. Most importantly, Meg taught Adalyn that it was time for a change.
Adalyn’s tutelage culminated with the old witch helping the girl to forge a pact with an otherworldly being known only as ‘The Gentleman.’ Not long after, Meg was killed by a dottari patrol for violating a curfew placed on the district. With her death, the old witch’s few belongings and her familiar, an old black tom cat named His Lordship, passed to Adalyn. It was at this time that Adalyn took the name ‘Black Addie’ to reflect that she was now the Witch of [insert name of poorest section of Westcrown here].
Here's Addie's roll for starting wealth: 2d6 ⇒ (6, 6) = 12 x 10
Feel free to "cast a vote" for any of the characters you think would be a good fit. I've got my top 2 in mind, but could be swayed by popular opinion.
I believe Berwick will make an interesting character, I love halflings, and hes a very articulate poster who clearly thinks about what he types. He gets my vote, followed closely by Quei Drathan for a thought out bio. Just my 50 cents.
Seconded for Berwick. He was one that I very much was sad to not be able to include in my CotCT.
It was at this time that Adalyn took the name ‘Black Addie’ to reflect that she was now the Witch of [insert name of poorest section of Westcrown here].
The section of Westcrown in question would be Rego Cader also known as the "Dead Sector". Older Wiscrani (residents of Westcrown) may refer to it as Rego Plea, as it was once home to servants, house slaves, and lesser trades. The number of people living in Rego Cader is small these days as the sector has fallen in ruin, housing dens of thieves and possiblly worse.
Had a few questions to pose. Please let me know what you think.
1 Does making a liquid catlyst vial require me to own or have access to an alchemical lab?
2 Reflex save to halve damage from splash damage is 10 + 1/2 alchemist's level + int mod. Is that minimum 1 for the level, or is the implication that it is 0 at lvl 1, and 1 at lvl 2?
3 Slow, Med, or Fast xp? I prefer slow, but I am just wondering.
4 starting gold for an alchemist? Like they did it here?
5 I have never played an alchemist, so I don't really know them well enough to "optimize" them for efficient play (NOTE: not optimizing for cheese!) Would appreciate input from anyone on this issue.
Do these seem too lopsided?:
Str 10 (-2 racial, 2 pts)
Dex 14 (+2 racial, 2 pts)
Con 13 (3 pts)
Int 16 (10 pts)
Wis 11 (1 pt)
Cha 14 (+2 racial, 2 pts)
6 What is the critical hit range and modifier for bombs?
7 Would the trait Accellerated Drinker apply to mutagens and extracts?
Accelerated Drinker:
Source Cheliax: Empire of Devils 18
You know how to drink a potion efficiently, such as by not using your hands, tossing it in the air and catching it in your mouth, or opening it with your teeth. You may drink a potion as a move action instead of a standard as long as you start your turn with the potion in your hand.
8 Are you okay with us tying backgrounds together? I would think that given Wart's history and current plans that he would at least be an acquaintance of a few of the other characters. Is that okay with you? With the group?
9 Is it okay if a several of us take the firebrand campaign trait? It is just so delicious, but I don't want to step on other peoples toes.
I will continue on,
Wart
I will post what I have so far, and build on it as I get these answered.
Had a few questions to pose. Please let me know what you think.
1 Does making a liquid catlyst vial require me to own or have access to an alchemical lab?
No, it does not.
2 Reflex save to halve damage from splash damage is 10 + 1/2 alchemist's level + int mod. Is that minimum 1 for the level, or is the implication that it is 0 at lvl 1, and 1 at lvl 2?
My understanding that it is 0 at level 1. In all other cases where it is a minimum of one, the Paizo folks have been very good about stating that.
3 Slow, Med, or Fast xp? I prefer slow, but I am just wondering.
The adventure path assumes the medium path.
4 starting gold for an alchemist? Like they did it here?
Assume the same as a Rogue.
5 I have never played an alchemist, so I don't really know them well enough to "optimize" them for efficient play (NOTE: not optimizing for cheese!) Would appreciate input from anyone on this issue.
** spoiler omitted **
Looks fine to me, but if anyone else wants to weigh in, go right ahead.
6 What is the critical hit range and modifier for bombs?
x2 on a 20.
7 Would the trait Accellerated Drinker apply to mutagens and extracts?
** spoiler omitted **
Yes, it does.
8 Are you okay with us tying backgrounds together? I would think that given Wart's history and current plans that he would at least be an acquaintance of a few of the other characters. Is that okay with you? With the group?
Absolutely!
9 Is it okay if a several of us take the firebrand campaign trait? It is just so delicious, but I don't want to step on other peoples toes.
I know a couple of you were pulling for Ferro Hasslebottom, but with as brutal as parts of this adventure path were when I ran for my RL group, I felt compelled to pick a cleric for the last spot.
I know a couple of you were pulling for Ferro Hasslebottom, but with as brutal as parts of this adventure path were when I ran for my RL group, I felt compelled to pick a cleric for the last spot.
Looks like I need to take Selective Channeling to make sure to "select" all those non-voters out of it's healing effect!
Kidding... Kidding...
I'm sure everyone wanted the bard for the songs, right? :)
Hey, Wart! With respect to tying backgrounds together, if you've ever been to the Ramble Gardens of Rego Cader to collect rare herbs (or purchased them from someone who has been there), then you may have heard of or encountered Ol' Meg or Black Addie, the Witches of Rego Cader.
Black Addie has also taken the Westcrown Firebrand trait. She is particularly distressed by the way members of the nobility have been releasing captives into Rego Cader and then hunting them down like animals for entertainment.
Well, you may not be a bard, but anyone willing to fight against the corrupt establishment in Westcrown (in whatever form that fight may take!) is okay in my book!
In going last, and now starting my sheet, I get some benefit (curse?) of filling in any last gaps.
Here's my scribbles from scanning you all, which you may all find useful.
My guess is Morghrin is the "tank" since Cadwyn is TWF. Also there's roughly 2 melee and 2 ranged so far.
I guess the good news is the Witch and the Alchemist don't have to worry too much about picking up CLW extracts or spells, since channel energy should cover a lot of mileage.
I saw you approved Cadwyn's Educated Warrior class variant from the PF Campaign Setting. I statted up with the Holy Warrior variant from the PF Setting book. Let me know if this causes any problem.
Morghrim was actually completely finished; then I messed it up by copying and pasting a different character over him. I'll finish him today. I wouldn't think of Morghrim as a tank; he's a pretty versatile character, including in combat. Having said that, of all the characters I suppose he's fairly well armoured and meaty. I tend to see an Inquisitor as a divine bard without any charisma; they are fairly jack of all tradey.
Edit: The Holy Warrior variant is disgusting in my opinion... a HD upgrade, BAB upgrade to a high BAB... And the favoured weapon bit is redundant as PF cleric's get that anyway... It's certainly not a variant i'm fond of but it's not my call.
I tend to agree with Morghrim when it come to the Holy Warrior variant, it's just a little too good.
Please stat up Valeron as a standard cleric or if you were wanting to have more of a martial slant, you could stat him out as a paladin.
Let me know what you plan to do.
To be honest, Morghrim is a pretty good secondary healer anyway; with a high heal skill, a healers kit, and he knows the Cure Light Wounds spell. Regardless of what you do, we should be good for heals.
Just to clarify for stuff-
Morghrim, Inquisitor AC18/19/20 HP11
Skills (6+): Heal, Sense Motive, Knowledge (Planes), Knowledge (Religion), Stealth, Survival, Perception)
Scale Armour, Heirloom Glaive
Spells: Det Magic, Det Poison, Read Magic, Guidance, CLW, SOF
Morghrim has three fighting styles he will switch between depending on the situation; Warhammer/Board, Crossbow/Buckler, and his favourite; the Glaive. He's been doing good where he can around Cheliax, and his character, equipment, skills and spells have been designed to reflect his self-sufficiency.
I am so happy Inquisitor's get guidance as an orison; such an ace spell.
The character works either way - if the party would prefer more of a tank, I can invest into going paladin. Otherwise I'd probably just be lazy and add back the spells and domains.
Morghrim's AC and HP really make him the most likely meatshield :)
Take a peek at my musings on the variant, if you dare...
Variant Musings:
Any reason why you think the Holy Warrior variant is too good? I actually waffled on it a bit for level1-8 play. Here's why
Gains:
1) BAB increase. This amounts to getting Weapon Focus at Level 1 and somewhere again on the way to Level 8. It's basically like getting 2 feats.
2) HD increase. Going from 4.5HP/level to 5.5HP/level is basically like having Toughness. So 1 extra feat.
Net worth from 1 to 8 is about 3 feats.
Loses:
1) Lose 1 extra spell per day at 1st, 3rd, 5th, 7th level. Depending on your 2 domains, this is pretty wide array of spells. It could be giving up 1/day: burning hands, product flame, fireball, firewall. Or 1/day: true strike, aid, prot f/energy, freedom of movement. Or 1/day: enlarge person, bulls strength, magic vest, spell immunity. And of course all these 1/day are swappable with appropriate Cures if needed.
2) Loses domain powers, which usually come in an "always active", something at 1st, something at 8th benefit. And you get 2 of these, one from each domain.
Travel's one of my favorite (not for Iomedae of course), but you give up +10ft/movement, the ability to ignore difficult terrain probably 6+ times a day at 1st, and an 80 ft teleport at 8th.
Water's another good one, with a ranged touch attack 6+ times a day doing 1d6+(1-4) damage.
I'd think (1) is a fairly reasonable swap. For most casters, a "feat" that gives you 1 extra spell slot whenever it becomes available should be worth about the same as a "feat" that gives you +1 BAB every 4 levels or so.
I'd think (2) actually favors the cleric since they get 2 domains to give them special powers in trade for ~1HP/level. I'd give up the d10 Holy Warrior hit dice to drop back down to d8 for access to 2 domains in a heartbeat.
Long story short: I have no problem getting back the cleric goodies, I actually thought I was gimping myself a bit power-wise with Holy Warrior!
The selection was more in looking at the party, seeing the Inquisitor was the meatshield, and willingly accepting some power loss to give the party more options in that department, versus in the spells department - which was actually fairly solid with the Alchemist, Witch and Inquisitor all having good "spell" capabilities. If there was already one less caster, I wouldn't never even touched the variant.
But it totally piqued my curiosity as "too good", I actually expected more objection being "are you sure you really want to give up that many spells?" rather than "this option isn't allowed because it's overpowering"?
Also I remember reading James Jacobs say that they'd likely even *boost* the variant via errata, letting it give the cleric bonus proficiency in Heavy Armor, so as written, isn't it underpowered?
In a DM seat, the only things I've actually disallowed were the Rich Parents and Heritage Weapon traits since for the cost of a "half feat" at first level, they actually give you 2 feats worth of benefit.
Is there a party preference? You guys want your 6th person to be more martial (I'll look at paladin) or more spellsy (I'll pick up the extra spells and domain abilities)?
I'm slowly whittling away all the TBD's on Cadwyn here...he'll be done tonight. I have to roll for gold, pick skills, and finalize the background. Between work and making sure my other game doesn't slow down Cadwyn has just been back-burnered so to speak.
I'm slowly whittling away all the TBD's on Cadwyn here...he'll be done tonight. I have to roll for gold, pick skills, and finalize the background. Between work and making sure my other game doesn't slow down Cadwyn has just been back-burnered so to speak.
Anyway, almost done.
Not a problem at all. I wasn't planning on starting until Monday anyway.
The character works either way - if the party would prefer more of a tank, I can invest into going paladin. Otherwise I'd probably just be lazy and add back the spells and domains.
Morghrim's AC and HP really make him the most likely meatshield :)
Take a peek at my musings on the variant, if you dare...
** spoiler omitted **...
I think for me it just comes down to a d10 HD, Full BAB, with Full spellcasting just seems a bit much for one class.
Morghrim's AC and HP really make him the most likely meatshield :)
Probably, but i'm not playing WoW and I resent my well-rounded character being written off as 'the tank'.
As for your musings; A full bab equates to a total +5 increase over 20 levels; that's hardly two feats, thats five feats if we are using weapon focus as the bar.
A D10HD is indeed just like taking the toughness feat; which you can also take in addition anyway. A Cleric that has full spellcasting progression, and yet still manages to be as hard as nails as a career soldier sits uneasy with me.
I also dislike the fluff on it; Cleric's are the spellcasters/secondary combatants, and Paladin's are the 'holy warriors'. I'd rather have variant Paladin's for other cornerstone alignments (LE,CE,CG) than have (in my opinion) an awkward variant between the two.
"I'm a holy warrior for my deity"
"Ah... I have met many Paladin's in my time here."
"Erm, well no. I am as tough as a Paladin, and my martial training is just as intense... But i'm a spellcaster, mostly."
Finally, both the Inquisitor and Summoner are not 'good' spellcasters. They use spells to supplement their other abilities, and both the Alchemist and Inquisitor are both about as strong as a bard in spellcasting- our full spellcasters are you and the witch.
Mechanically speaking, the holy warrior is iffy balance wise, but is probably acceptable; I just strongly disagree with the changes; a cleric should not have a D10HD, Full BAB and still be a primary caster.
Probably, but i'm not playing WoW and I resent my well-rounded character being written off as 'the tank'.
Oh no, I wasn't writing you off. Since you were carrying 2 shields, and prior to me joining were the only AC15+ it seemed like were inheriting the role of the guy wading into trouble.
Talomyr said something about being "brutal" when he added me, so I felt the pressure was on to identify and fill any voids.
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A full bab equates to a total +5 increase over 20 levels; that's hardly two feats, thats five feats if we are using weapon focus as the bar.
I only looked at 1-8, since at 8+ I'd really think anyone would gladly drop getting 3 more BAB over 12 levels for stuff like Blade Barrier, Power Word Stun, Power Word Kill and more. I'm sure the fifth feat spent for that last +1 getting to +5 was less powerful than getting Power Word Kill 1x/day.
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A Cleric that has full spellcasting progression, and yet still manages to be as hard as nails as a career soldier sits uneasy with me.
Understood. I've seen Dwarf sorcerers have more HP than party fighters. It was weird, but as long as everyone was having fun it seemed alright.
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Finally, both the Inquisitor and Summoner are not 'good' spellcasters.
With PbP, I'm wary of planning too many adventures ahead, so I was reviewing the party's spells at 1-4. Believe it or not, all 4 have roughly the same amount of spells here:
I know full casters will eventually grab higher level spells faster than the hybrids. It was "I can give up spell slots at early levels since there's 3 other people who will have about the same spells."
Its hard to tell if you favor adding another "tank" (for lack of a simpler word) because you didn't want Morgrim in that role, or you favor adding another "full caster"? I get different vibes depending which part of the post I read.
The character's "fluff needs" are satisfied as a paladin, holy cleric, or regular cleric. Initially, I picked the middle option as a compromise to try to help Morghrim out (specifically). I happily tweaked it back to full cleric, since at Level 3, I'd rather have the 2 extra spells and domain powers over a +1 to hit and what I'd be lucky if were 3 HP.
I will say, always play the character you want (assuming DM is cool with it), not what you think the party needs. We'll be fine regardless of how tanky your character is going to be I think.
I'd much rather you play your cleric as a caster, with full domain powers. But my wishes are somewhat moot as DM isn't allowing the variant anyway.
Thankyou for the consideration on my part, and I apologise for the tone of my earlier post. I've had a hard few days with illness and i'm a little cranky.
As for Morghrim's role, I still don't see him as a tank per se, and I think his role will shift depending on what the party needs more at the time. The teamwork feats in particular are beautiful for their versatility, as are the judgements.
Cadwyn is done, save the gold/equipment. Check the background to make sure it is appropriate. I kept most of it intact, but changed enough to make sense.
I will reveal in character most of it, so anyone who doesn't want slight surprises - don't read. :)
I'm sure you're going think that I'm a complete jerk of a DM but..
Killing me! Actually I knew that, that was apparently leftover from the +1 BAB thing. I'm used to a Cleric of Heironeous just getting Weapon Focus (longsword) for free at 1st level as part of the domain. Given Iomedae was based on Heironeous, I'm shocked there's not a single option to allow this customization in Pathfinder... am I missing anything besides the PF Setting rule?
I'm sure you're going think that I'm a complete jerk of a DM but..
Killing me! Actually I knew that, that was apparently leftover from the +1 BAB thing. I'm used to a Cleric of Heironeous just getting Weapon Focus (longsword) for free at 1st level as part of the domain. Given Iomedae was based on Heironeous, I'm shocked there's not a single option to allow this customization in Pathfinder... am I missing anything besides the PF Setting rule?
Outside of the one feat, your character looks good. I see that you are an adventure path subscriber. Would you be interested in the Inheritor's Crusader prestige class in #26?
Outside of the one feat, your character looks good. I see that you are an adventure path subscriber. Would you be interested in the Inheritor's Crusader prestige class in #26?
I could be... I didn't even realize it existed until I just Googled it. Trying to find some fluff text, at least, but this is all I've found.
I had my subscription on hiatus for most of Second Darkness through til I re-upped for Kingmaker (needed to save some $ after the first 2 APs).
Do you think Scribe Scroll would be solid? I know usefulness of that one varies from DM-to-DM.
Outside of the one feat, your character looks good. I see that you are an adventure path subscriber. Would you be interested in the Inheritor's Crusader prestige class in #26?
I could be... I didn't even realize it existed until I just Googled it. Trying to find some fluff text, at least, but this is all I've found.
I had my subscription on hiatus for most of Second Darkness through til I re-upped for Kingmaker (needed to save some $ after the first 2 APs).
Do you think Scribe Scroll would be solid? I know usefulness of that one varies from DM-to-DM.
Nothing wrong with scribe scroll. It usually a solid choice.
As far as the Inheritor's Crusader, its a 3 level prestige class.
- Full Caster Levels
- Full BAB
- Aura of Courage as a paladin at 1st
- Ability to break compulsions with channel energy at 2nd
- Requirements: Alignment:LG, Feat: Iron Will, 5 ranks Knowledge(Religion) and Sense Motive, proficient in longsword, be able to channel positive energy.
Given the need for 5 ranks of skills, it's kind of a mute point for now, but maybe something to keep in the back of your mind.
As far as the Inheritor's Crusader, its a 3 level prestige class.
Looks fairly easy to qualify for, its skills I'd keep close to max ranks, and Iron Will is only a single feat. Something to consider at 3rd level (the feat, that is) if Valeron is still alive, depending on how devout he may be feeling... a lot can happen between creation and 3rd level depending on the adventure(s).
If I grab Scribe, would that open up the option to scribe 1st level scrolls as part of character creation for 12.5g a pop from remaining gold?
