Breaking down items for Nanite Investment doesn't make sense

Personally, I like that idea, BUT I think tracking that would be a little difficult. Maybe, instead have the nanite investment be:

1) 10% of anything you have consumed
2) OR the full value of an item if it is greater than your current investment
3) But cannot be greater than the maximum amount for your level (see the Clarification: Creating Nanocytes Above 1st level thread)

Given that the table in the Clarification thread is for starting at a level, all the values would have to be shift so that the cap for your investment is equal to the maximum starting investment for the next level.

Honestly, the whole idea of using credits for investment is just ridiculous. Just have the Nanocyte capable to integrate items of its level. Period. Simple as that.

Each item level already has a price range, that should be enough to determine a Nanocyte's gear and balance.

Maybe this was discussed somewhere else, but the fact that the Nanocyte can only learn new forms on level-up and only if they already have enough of a nanite investment leads to a weird consequence.

When leveling up, since you won't yet have had a chance to 'eat' an item of your new level+1, you'll have, at most, a nanite investment equal to the price of an item of your old level+1. Though you'll be able to choose forms of your new level +1, at higher levels, it's unlikely you'll have the necessary investment.

Perhaps this is by design, so that more expensive items like weapons will be effectively restricted to your level, while cheaper utility items can be level+1, but it still feels like a roundabout way to implement the restriction.

Maybe this was discussed somewhere else, but the fact that the Nanocyte can only learn new forms on level-up and only if they already have enough of a nanite investment leads to a weird consequence.

When leveling up, since you won't yet have had a chance to 'eat' an item of your new level+1, you'll have, at most, a nanite investment equal to the price of an item of your old level+1. Though you'll be able to choose forms of your new level +1, at higher levels, it's unlikely you'll have the necessary investment.

Perhaps this is by design, so that more expensive items like weapons will be effectively restricted to your level, while cheaper utility items can be level+1, but it still feels like a roundabout way to implement the restriction.

It seems like it would be simpler to restrict Major Forms to your level and Minor Forms to level+1 if that was the case, but that solution is so simple that I can't bring myself to believe the reasoning.

Brew Bird wrote:

Maybe this was discussed somewhere else, but the fact that the Nanocyte can only learn new forms on level-up and only if they already have enough of a nanite investment leads to a weird consequence.

When leveling up, since you won't yet have had a chance to 'eat' an item of your new level+1, you'll have, at most, a nanite investment equal to the price of an item of your old level+1. Though you'll be able to choose forms of your new level +1, at higher levels, it's unlikely you'll have the necessary investment.

Perhaps this is by design, so that more expensive items like weapons will be effectively restricted to your level, while cheaper utility items can be level+1, but it still feels like a roundabout way to implement the restriction.

It seems like it would be simpler to restrict Major Forms to your level and Minor Forms to level+1 if that was the case, but that solution is so simple that I can't bring myself to believe the reasoning.

Ok, go for this instead: you simply go of the limited number of items you can shape instead of having to take in account the price of each item.

Here's a REAL problem: what about items that count as BOTH a weapon and an augmentation. For instance, a Weaponized Prostethis can have an integrated weapon. Does it count as an augmentation, a weapon or both?

rabidradioactiveraccoons wrote:

Brew Bird wrote:

Maybe this was discussed somewhere else, but the fact that the Nanocyte can only learn new forms on level-up and only if they already have enough of a nanite investment leads to a weird consequence.

When leveling up, since you won't yet have had a chance to 'eat' an item of your new level+1, you'll have, at most, a nanite investment equal to the price of an item of your old level+1. Though you'll be able to choose forms of your new level +1, at higher levels, it's unlikely you'll have the necessary investment.

Perhaps this is by design, so that more expensive items like weapons will be effectively restricted to your level, while cheaper utility items can be level+1, but it still feels like a roundabout way to implement the restriction.

It seems like it would be simpler to restrict Major Forms to your level and Minor Forms to level+1 if that was the case, but that solution is so simple that I can't bring myself to believe the reasoning.

Ok, go for this instead: you simply go of the limited number of items you can shape instead of having to take in account the price of each item.

Here's a REAL problem: what about items that count as BOTH a weapon and an augmentation. For instance, a Weaponized Prostethis can have an integrated weapon. Does it count as an augmentation, a weapon or both?

A Weaponized Prosthesis is an augmentation; it has slots for an integrated weapon, but the Prosthesis itself is not a weapon. Unless there is some clarification concerning integrated weapons, weapon modifications/accessories, etc., it seems like a Weaponized Prosthesis form would require you to integrate a separate weapon every time you formed it; which makes it seem like a really bad choice for a Major Form.

EDIT: Also, weapons and augmentations both take up Major Form slots, it would not be unreasonable to rule that an augmentation that is also a weapon is a single Major Form, as whether you count it as an augmentation or as a weapon it will still be Major.

It seems like it would be simpler to restrict Major Forms to your level and Minor Forms to level+1 if that was the case, but that solution is so simple that I can't bring myself to believe the reasoning.

I suspect that the intent was flavor. It's thematic to dust a gun to be able to make one. Implementation is the question for me.

Looking at the caps provided in the clarification, I wonder if those are expected values or just spitballing a max.

The 2nd level allowance, for example, is about the value of a 3rd gun. That's what you'd expect from the write-up. But how many AP's have you run where everyone, or anyone, is rocking a 3rd level gun before 2nd level?

My experience across a few adventures is that people are stuck with first level guns for a long time. I've got a 6th level group now where I had to throw upgrades at one of the players who was sticking with a pair of first level guns. And, as someone else pointed out you'd apparently have to have the level+2 item handy with an hour of downtime so that you could dust it as you level to be able to take advantage of it.

Iterative updates to the nanocyte's pool would help (letting it fill to some capacity), or just giving them a set amount assuming that they're constantly converting a few bits of things around them all the time. I just don't know how often a group of players would be presented with enough items high enough level to dust to actually keep up.

I wonder if the Nanocyte can eat a computer for his Investment. They are generally technological items right? If so find a miniaturized one with lots of security modules and blow the item chart by level out of the water and be back to being limited by level +1 anyway.

Would a computer be considered a Major or Minor item?

I wonder if the Nanocyte can eat a computer for his Investment. They are generally technological items right? If so find a miniaturized one with lots of security modules and blow the item chart by level out of the water and be back to being limited by level +1 anyway.

Would a computer be considered a Major or Minor item?

They cannot eat a computer, as far as I can tell. They don't have a level. They do have a Tier, but that is not directly comparable to a leveled item, at least in the text of the entry.

Alternatively, they CAN eat a computer, and nothing means anything because they can then eat something that has an undefined value. Throw out the investment rules altogether (no, actually do it, please).

You may be right, i can’t find a quote for item level, but under the crafting computers rules you can build a computer with a tier = 1/2 your ranks in computers or engineering. Crafting anything else says you can make up to an item level = to your ranks. A datapad is listed as a tier 1 example and is a level 2 item in the technological items list. With all this in mind I’d think a computer is a 2 x Tier level item.

cagemarrow wrote:

I wonder if the Nanocyte can eat a computer for his Investment. They are generally technological items right? If so find a miniaturized one with lots of security modules and blow the item chart by level out of the water and be back to being limited by level +1 anyway.

Would a computer be considered a Major or Minor item?

They cannot eat a computer, as far as I can tell. They don't have a level. They do have a Tier, but that is not directly comparable to a leveled item, at least in the text of the entry.

Alternatively, they CAN eat a computer, and nothing means anything because they can then eat something that has an undefined value. Throw out the investment rules altogether (no, actually do it, please).

I was kinda expecting the nanocyte to be able to break down weapons and recombine them in weird ways, though that would require a very complex and robust subsystem of rules.

Or an overly simple investment system. Something like 'you can form a weapon that uses (insert chart of operative weapon damage values per level) or or any toolkit or (dunno, something cybernetics something).' skip a few lines of text and mention 'Once per day, you can deconstruct a weapon to add (level / 5) options from the weapon to your major weapon form for (level) hours. Options are any critical effect, increased range increment, +(weapon level/6) to damage, something-something'.

You still have a way to cycle out a lot of useless level 1 semi automatic pistols and tactical batons, but by using a static chart you're not limiting the effectiveness of your class to your party generosity. or something.

Or an overly simple investment system. Something like 'you can form a weapon that uses (insert chart of operative weapon damage values per level) or or any toolkit or (dunno, something cybernetics something).' skip a few lines of text and mention 'Once per day, you can deconstruct a weapon to add (level / 5) options from the weapon to your major weapon form for (level) hours. Options are any critical effect, increased range increment, +(weapon level/6) to damage, something-something'.

You still have a way to cycle out a lot of useless level 1 semi automatic pistols and tactical batons, but by using a static chart you're not limiting the effectiveness of your class to your party generosity. or something.

Something like that wouldn't be a bad idea, and would help keep the class ability from being dependent on the actual equipment charts. One suggested addition: "You can deconstruct a weapon of character level or less ( or CharLevel -1, etc )." Basically, put a hard coded limited in the ability so as to put the entire "eat the valuable weapon another player could use" issue off the table. You can eat a weapon, but *only* a trash weapon that is highly unlikely to be desired equipment by anyone else.

I think that the play test is over now, but I just test the nanocyte and even if I had a little issue to understand how work "The nanite investement", I had a good time with it this way so far (Level 1 to 9)
A lot of good Stuff are not allways good for every body, so break them down is quite easy.
Yes, it's hard to create weapons of your level+1 and by the time level-up it's more and more complicated. But you can still by the weapon you want and fight whith.
For me it's more like a back up capacity, like facing a immune creature to fire and just pop a cryo weapon of your design. Maybe from a lower level but still more effective.
I like this new classe. Very fun and realy good with the Lore

I see another problem: the Gear Array is limited to ONE form only... and you need to take a move-action to reset your array with a different form.

At this point, the class should have gotten 1 form/4, 5 or 6 levels. The issue is that the item has to be 4 or 8 levels lower than yours, and there's no way to have 2 items of the same levels being active at once...