I understand you do not want to allow it to avoid certain powerful combos. I am ok with it, you gave us the Hero Point option, which is non granted in all campaigns, so any limit you want to place on it to feel comfortable I think is ok.
I am also ok if you want to retcon the expense I did. It will be easy as it is just a matter of adjusting Dundin's hp.
As for us surviving... well, I am impressed to think this is intended for level 2 characters!!! XD
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I only wish to limit it so as to likewise limit myself from allowing the BBEG's to do the same. You may find one or two in the campaign who research spells which give them Hero Points, the better to combat the great acts you will perform later on. Jason Buhlman and James Jacobs have commented in a few posts their opinion that the game was designed specifically to avoid multi-spell casting in the same turn for individuals. They called it out a few times in the Mythic rules as well. If it is limited in mythic, then it would be OP to allow it in a Heroic game.
If you want to use a Hero Point for an extra action that is fine, it is what they are intended to do. You can use that action to activate a wand easily, or as was the case here, use the wand twice against the same target, no problem. If you want to cast a spell, cast a swift spell, use the Hero Point to activate a wand also fine, no problem. If you want to use a Hero Point to turn a 1 round spell instead into a full action spell I am ok with that too.
My reluctance would come with direct castings of two spells, say a Fireball, Fireball, Fiery Shuriken attack against a group of Frost Giants, or two Lightning Bolts down a narrow corridor taking out the leader as he steps from the loo. Sure they are great one-shots, you would rack up the kills in short order, but your heroics limit everyone else's gameplay. What if you researched and learned spells or feats to give yourself more Hero Points. You become the badass and crush all the BBEG fights, but how would that play out for everyone else, doing all the grunt work to get there. Hey it's the Tyrant, everyone ready only to have boom, boom, boom, it's all over so "let's go home and celebrate MY glory." I'm not saying that is going to happen, or anyone would try to do that, but I at least want the boundaries laid out to avoid later unpleasantness.
Hero Points are intended to be that, heroic moments where you and fate work together to make something memorable happen. They are intended to avoid death, give you a small boost, save the day. I only want to make sure now, before the moment comes in a big battle, the ground work for how the Hero Points work and not crush anyone's dreams while in the thick of it.
I want your guys feedback, am I being unreasonable? I am not a tyrant, or at least I don't want to be. I gave you the Hero Points because this campaign can be tough, Paizo even mentions them as a suggestion for the AP. But I also want to see them used in a way as to help the game without hurting it down the road.
Actually, the AP XP totals would place you just at 3rd level when the orc hordes rush the gates. This would have prevented level appropriate gear aside from gathered treasures, no time to learn and prep new level spells, etc.
I felt it more important to pump you up early so as to give you full access to your gifts when they became needed, not when they became ready.
I will double check the numbers after this battle, see where you are along the 3rd to 4th bar. You still have the last of the invasion to deal with as well as the dive into the real BBEG fight, if you can find it in time. Somewhere right now the traitor's plan is taking off and you are all caught up in the distraction.
I think the limitation is perfectly reasonable. Also, I like the idea of allowing wand usage with hero points. Especially since we don't have any type of dedicated healer. That's really going to be our only way of effective combat healing.
I agree with it about Hero Points Darkblade. And they are a very useful tool to avoid the terrible randomness sometimes happens with save or die effects.
I used them when DMing "Red hand of doom" during the last 2 years, and it allowed us to complete the campaign with only 2 deaths. It really made the players feel they were something special and heroic, and rolling those extra die in saves were total tension moments that made it more interesting. Although at some points I felt frustrated they seemed immune to spells like control, charm, etc... I would have loved to play with ^_^
I like having them, even if I was not getting benefit as a player, and it seems reasonable to me the limits you want to place on them so they do not get out of control.
The rules says about earning back 1 point when levelling up. Will we get that or you prefer to just manually hand them at some points?
As for the healing. I really would like to have someone with good capability on healing in the group. I would not mind to play an oracle if I was not so compelled by Leira's story.
If the group is willing to pay for it, I am also ok to charge with the burden of carrying all kinds of healing scrolls and wands. Also, I am not fan of Infernal Healing, but I could play with that too if we really want to cover the healing thing.
It seems Adir is up at 1 hp! :D
I can have Delia pick up what few Cure spells she has on her spell list for some of her known spells for emergency type healing. She's likely going to be the most mobile of the group, but once we start getting into extended reach Giants... That's going to be a bit of a problem... If Adir could also memorize one Cure spell per day that could also help for in combat healing since he will be on the frontline anyway would be helpful.
I think the combat is going about as expected. I knew we would take a few shots but it seemed that Adir took the brunt of it.
We have blooded them badly. We just need to clean up the ones on this side of the barricade and then focus on the new group. Try to keep them from splitting up so we don't have to split up to stop them.
I agree with the hero point system you are using. Hero points are for heroic acts not just an extra action.
Dundin likely enjoys cover against those pilums.
Ac=10+4 chain shirt+2dex+2nat armor-2 (enlarge)=16
Being large I may not get cover.
The cover rules are quite specific on that, there is even a low obstacles entry clarifying if it covers half your body the cover still applies if you are closer than the enemy to the obstacle.
It also introduces the concept of partial cover, on discretion of the GM the bonus can be lowered to +2 if less than half height is covered.
They tried to simplify the cover rules of D&D3.0 where there were different degrees of cover leading to discussions and losing time on assessing the cover degree.
You might be large, but still a significant part of your lower body is being covered. Besides you being a more exposed target is already accounted in that size penalty you are already applying.
There is great difference on you falling there or not :(
I do not feel like hashing this out, to explain my rationale at this time for not allowing the cover bonus to Dundin's enlarged form. My health is not up to it.
We will move forward holding to a more stringent RAW interpretation of what qualifies as cover, partial cover, and concealment, regardless of how that will effect the targeting of the giants you will face in the future.
Dundin please consider the damage negated and act accordingly.
I am not opposed to any ruling. I know hard it is to run a game. I enjoy the ride for the wonderful experience it is.
I am also fine either way. Personally, I didn't have any issues with a Large creature not benefiting from the cover. If you think about it this way...
An enlarge dwarf basically would stand almost 9' tall or higher depending on their height. A 3' barricade would only cover up to roughly mid-thigh on them. I don't necessarily think that would be enough to provide cover when most attacks are aimed at the upper body, but that's just my two coppers.
My intention was just to talk out things. Being used to play with the same groups all over again makes things difficult when you start playing with a new group.
I did not know about your interpretation of how this particular cover might interact with large creatures as it was not pointed out before. In my mind it was just behind the barricade is somehow better than in front of it.
Do not know. I think we should be able to talk out these things with normality :) Otherwise not talking might help run the game smoothly for a time, but bring us to scenarios were we are performing actions which has no sense for the others, and because we fear to share our interpretation, we end up feeling wronged or unable to preview the consequences of our decisions.
The game is great, I keep interested on seeing how all this evolves! We should thank you for running it as you do more often! Thanks for the game Darkblade!
And get better, you and Songan have our prayers.
If you can avoid the engaged penalty by targeting a 5' piece of a target that is unengaged, I would think the same applies to cover.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Hope you are well DM and Songan.
I am doing as well as can be expected. Since the last of September I have been taken with a double bout of pneumonia, a sinus cold, and now bronchitis. The pneumonia did a number of my lungs, the antibiotics wreaked my own immune system, my sinuses crashed what was left of my respiratory functions and the CF has become a bit aggressive resulting from the overall body changes. I have worked well enough to fight back to once again getting out and about, back to work, etc.
I hope Songan has been fairing better than myself.
We will work with the RAW moving forward with the campaign. Hopefully this will avoid any further breakdowns. As such Dundin is still standing, the two hits negated. When ready please post his Round 14 actions and we will resume the game.
What is RAW? I am sure I knew what it was but it is eluding me.
Hope you start feeling better, Darkblade! I'm down with a respitory infection myself...
And RAW = Rules As Written as opposed to RAI which = Rules As Interpretted.
Nicely done Leira! Perfect time and rolls for that clutch Burning Hands!
Also... holy crap! This battle is brutal! Paizo is not holding any punches on this one. I think they wrote this expecting a dedicated healer in the party. I cannot see a standard party with 15 point buy surviving this battle without multiple deaths. We're using 25 point buy and have pretty solidly built characters.
|
Not sure I can answer that in the affirmative, Darkblade, though I wish I could. Apologies for not posting before now, everyone. Two Mondays ago I woke up with a fever that got worse as the morning wore on. I've been back on the hospital since then. Finally found out a few days ago that I had caught a case of surgical meningitis. I'm finally today recovered enough from the bug to feel like coming back only. I'm actually feeling a great deal better in the last couple of days. I'm going to try and get back into posting, starting one game at a time, in the next day or two.
Thank you all for your prayers!
-Posted with Wayfinder
Yikes Songan! Glad to hear that you are feeling better though. I say take all the time you need to recover. There's no need to rush back into this until you are ready. We will hold your place for you!
Sorry to hear all that Songan and Darkblade :/
I am happy you Songan are finding your way back to health, and hope doctors find the solution for Darkblade problems soon too.
As for the game, thanks Delia! I was trying to administer the spells remaining, but there were a lot of foes piled in front of our fallen dwarf with the rest suffering a lot. Let's hope the fates of luck keep with us.
The wand, I took the one from Songan at the beginning of the combat. Thus you should have the 4X charges one with you.
Delia, did you want to change your actions if this second wand is available to you?
No, I'll keep them as is for now. Hopefully Delia's attack will be able to take out one of the remaining orcs. Now, if Leira's spell completely wipes out the orcs, then I would like to change my actions to healing Dundin.
For those who celebrate it, Happy Thanksgiving.
For those who don't, take the moment and give thanks anyways. We should always take the time now and then to enjoy what we have, where we've been, and those around us sharing in the journey.
|
|
Holy crap, you guys have been busy. Wow. That was a lot of reading!
So...looks to me like we're fighting tooth and nail (pun intended!). Two or three of us are knocked out and I think I remember a new wave or orcs coming in. That about the size of it?
Point two: Man, Omast is kicking butt and takin names.
Point three: Geez, Darkblade! You had two separate runs of three nat-20s in a row there! That's some serious RNG loving. Give us some!
-Posted with Wayfinder
|
|
Aaand I missed the one-hour window. That's ok. Just wanted to say that I'm really glad to be well enough to be back to regular posting. I hope regular, anyway; certainly four or five posts will be a lot easier to update from than 95+! I don't know any of you at all outside these forums, but doggone it, I've missed you guys!
It's really good news to see you around again :)
Welcome back. I know what you mean about catching up. When I began playing with you guys I had about 9 pages to read. Great story but it takes a long time.
Welcome back Songan! Glad to see your recovery went well. Yes, this combat is definitely one that would be hard to jump into if you missed the first portion of it. I do not envy you on that!
Sorry for the delay guys, I ended up back under the weather. Now going through a round of azithromycin to stave off another chest infection.
This battle is nearly over and it seems to be settling out in your favor. With the gate down you should be able to mop up and regroup, then with the aid of those inside the wall tower, figure out your next steps.
|
|
I'm a bit confused, Darkblade. I made an attack roll yesterday. Did I miss a round in there?
If Jace was down before my post and I didn't notice it, then Songan would've targeted the rival archer instead.
-Posted with Wayfinder
I do apologize Songan, your post did not appear in my feeds and I didn't double check the site posts.
I have applied your damage to the rival archer as yes, Jace was taken down during the previous round. It did not otherwise change the combat situation.
|
|
No worries! It may not have shown up because it had been so long since I'd have an in-game post.
-Posted with Wayfinder
I'm glad y'all are recovering. Just in time for the holidays, too. =)
Congratulations, you have survived the longest pitched fight in this book. Good practice for things to come.
Well run!!
-2/37, assume I need many clw charges.
For Rp purposes, Dundin planned to switch Toughness for the vengeance story feat when seeing a giant. His vengeance consumes him and his ritual of daily exercise to stay 'tough' lapses as a result (-3 to hp and max hp immediately).
If you want, we can use standard retraining rules too.
You can afford to take about five minutes here recovering from the battle. The tower/wall guards spotted you guys during the battle and worked to close the portcullis. They open the wall door and can offer you a better vantage point to survey the area. Unfortunately they cannot reopen the portcullis, the mechanism broke when the gate dropped.
To get to Lower Trunau and the next light, you will need to either climb down the rubble pile near the fallen tower, scale down the other side of the wall, or go back to Upper Trunau and use one of the emergency ladders to escape outside Trunau and move around the city, dodging the orcish army, and enter via the front gates.
I will give you guys the day to plan out what all you need to do and then begin setting the next phase into motion.
Please make sure you each have updated your character sheets for what you are currently using, charges and spells spent, etc. Also if anyone has taken or is using something from the treasure list, please notate that as well. I would hate to have someone go to use something someone else had already taken/used; it would go bad to be denied in the midst of combat.
Can we see a map of the area with the broken tower?
Rubble pile seems most direct. Don't like leaving the city.
See the Orange ovoid along the bottom edge.
Rubble pile seems most direct. Don't like leaving the city.
It sounds like a plan to me.
It sounds better to keep pressing forward and leave nothing behind us.
What can we see from the top of the wall? I found the map of the city in the players guild. What is going on in Lower Trunau? Can the cliff be scaled down to get to Sanctuary?
What do we know about the city's troops outside the wall? We they trying to get in through the main gate?
Has anyone heard anything from Darkblade recently? He hasn't had any posts on the forums in over a week... Hopefully everything is okay.
Between health and holidays, something may have come up. Hopefully, all is well.
Let's hope for the best :/
Hope his is well.
Hello all, sorry for the delays. I really hope that 2016 turns out to be a luckier year than 2015 has failed to be.
Between PC issues and another bout of lung infections I have not had a good week. My computer was fortunately backed up so I lost only a few of our recent posts and exploits, though not so lucky in other areas of the drive.
I now have two new inhaled medications to go with the three I currently utilize. I am starting to wonder if I should carry a No Flame warning, incase some smoker accidently sets me ablaze in passing.
Again I am sorry for the delays, I need to get my cell setup for posting in case this happens again. What has been anyone's experience with the Wayfinder app? Is it worth the effort?
You don't have to apologize, Darkblade. I think we were just concerned that we had not heard from you in a while. Take your time in recovery and come back whenever you are ready.