Did I move my token to that square on the map in the last round? I don't remember if I moved it myself or not, but it just occurred to me that from that square I'd have provoked from the grindylow that was there, since it would've been making a ranged attack in melee range. I don't guess it matters at this point.
The grindylow took a 5 foot step to get adjacent to you.
Gotcha. Thanks. Criminy, I'm biting my nails over this one and praying we don't get TPKed. That would suck so bad. I'm really enjoying the game so far.
Yikes, the grindylow is rolling really well. Being able to trip as a swift action each round is brutal. I'm hoping you don't TPK too, but it's not looking good at the moment.
If things do go down that route, how do you guys want to handle it? I can come up with some deus ex machina to save your characters at the last minute. Or you can take over existing NPCs or make new characters to avenge the fallen heroes.
Either way, the game will go on.
I have an alternative character if we all die.
I dunno what I expected, but I am suspicious at her ability to bite and spear and move in one round, when the bite and spear is a full attack even with natural attacks.
Though, if we do wipe, thats what happens I guess. Either way, I'm okay with what the group wants.
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She only took a 5-foot-step, which you can do in between attacks when taking a full attack. Unfortunately, you all were standing too close together. :(
A classic blunder when up against fighter-types.
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Yeah, he threw off my debuff twice with a Will save of only +2. :(
He now has taken 22 damage. As a CR+X encounter, I am sure he has a fair bit of HP to go.
I could have healed Calvin but it is unlikely that he would still be standing now even with that.
Admittedly we just charged in without thinking or scouting. We got lulled into complacency by the easy encounters leading up to it.
If the tentacle is a natural attack with an EX ability to trip instead of a normal attack then his full attack could be Spear/Bite/Trip. Though his bite and trip in this case should be at -5 because they are secondary attacks. I don't see those penalties on the trip, though the bite definitely had a secondary penalty built in.
Actually, the fishy part here is that this means that he used a cleave action as a part of a full attack, which is not normally possible, because cleave is a standard action.
But it would work if the trip is a swift action special ability of some kind. But then that is super powerful. Improved trip and swift action trip is pretty great.
And at +8... Gideon has the best CMD in the party at 18 (Tobar has 16, Gideon 15, and I have 11), so that trip will usually work.
Tangling Tentacles (Ex) Although a grindylow can't attack to cause damage with its six tentacles, these wriggling legs constantly writhe and reach out to tug at and trip adjacent foes. During the grindylow's turn, it can make a single trip attack against any adjacent foe as a swift action. It gains a +4 racial bonus on trip attacks made with its tangling tentacles, and if it fails to trip a foe, that creature can't attempt to trip the grindylow in retaliation.
So it's a swift action, separate from its full attack. On its first turn, it used a move action for a 5-foot-step, swift action to trip, and standard action to Cleave. On its second round, it took a full attack with a 5-foot-step in between the bite and spear, then a swift action to trip.
Does it have the improved trip feat? Or does it specify that it is immune to the attacks of opportunity normally provoked by a trip attack?
If it doesn't (and the text quoted does not) then those trip attacks should have provoked AoO's from Calvin and Tobar.
Hmm, well it doesn't specify that. I assumed it functioned like the universal monster ability to trip, but perhaps I made a mistake. I will allow Calvin and Tobar to retroactively roll attacks of opportunity. If they do enough damage, it might go down with Tobar's latest hit.
This reminds me of another game.
Once in a PFS session my party was up against a barbarian as the final boss. We kept getting brought below 0 HP, and then healed, which meant that we kept having to attack from prone. Anything else (standing up, moving away) would have provoked an AoO and the BBEG did so much damage per hit that we didn't think we could afford to do anything else. It was a mess. That and the wizard was out of spells. :(
In the end the wizard ran and got help from the town watch. Nearly a TPK.
Hmm, well it doesn't specify that. I assumed it functioned like the universal monster ability to trip, but perhaps I made a mistake. I will allow Calvin and Tobar to retroactively roll attacks of opportunity. If they do enough damage, it might go down with Tobar's latest hit.
Just looked up the monster special ability.
That ability is always a free action after a separate attack that must hit. So I don't think it qualifies. It never uses the phrase "trip attack" which I believe is what the normal combat maneuver is.
The balancing factor with the trip special ability is that you have to hit with the first attack to even use the ability, so in practice you basically have to score two hits in a row. I had a character with a wolf mount with trip and it almost never worked. It's a cool ability but in practice it doesn't work as much as it might seem.
Yes, that makes sense.
On the messageboards, people seem to agree that the grindylow's trip attack doesn't provoke attacks of opportunity because it is an extraordinary ability. According to the table in the combat chapter, using an extraordinary ability does not provoke. I'm still going to allow the retroactive attacks of opportunity either way, in the interest of trying to avoid a TPK.
Hmm, well it doesn't specify that. I assumed it functioned like the universal monster ability to trip, but perhaps I made a mistake. I will allow Calvin and Tobar to retroactively roll attacks of opportunity. If they do enough damage, it might go down with Tobar's latest hit.
You are wise and generous, o mighty GM!
The stinky part of it for Gideon is that he really didn't contribute to this fight. I mean yeah, he took out the little grindylow, but aside from that, he did zilch. Probably mostly my fault for not thinking about the danger of leaving myself that close to a teammate when I didn't know the big bad's abilities, though.
Well...fingers crossed that we'll be able to pull this out still, with those extra AoOs. I'm ok with making new characters, but I hope we can still keep going with these. I had a GM that ended a Jade Regent game in a TPK in the final encounter of book 1 and didn't even try to save it, just closed the thread, and it sucked. Only game I've had end by TPK on Paizo.
On the messageboards, people seem to agree that the grindylow's trip attack doesn't provoke attacks of opportunity because it is an extraordinary ability. According to the table in the combat chapter, using an extraordinary ability does not provoke.
Hmmm... interesting.
In this case though, what the extraordinary ability does is take another action (a trip attack) and change it from a standard action to a swift action. It is not an ability that needs to be activated.
On the other hand, swift actions generally don't provoke. Quickened spells don't provoke, for example.
Ironically, if we were swimming in water it wouldn't have made much of a difference for Calvin, since I don't think you can trip someone who is swimming. If Tobar was standing on the bottom then he would be trippable.
So the encounter with the aquatic creature is more difficult because it is out of the water. :)
Aquatic Adventures revised the rules for tripping underwater (they specifically call it out as a change to the core rules) so that swimming creatures can be knocked off-balance by a trip attack, which is close to (but not quite the same as) being prone.
My logic chain is:
Taking a trip attack action is, itself, something that provokes an AoO. It doesn't matter if you have an ability to make a trip as a swift action, a free action, an immediate action, whatever - making a trip provokes an AoO if you don't have Improved Trip.
So, the grindylow's Tangling Tentacles can trip as a swift action, AND they get a +4 bonus, AND you can't do a retaliatory trip if it fails, BUT it does not specify that it mitigates the AoO granted for making a trip action.
That's how I'd go, barring some other revelation.
Incidentally, encounters like this one are why people hyper-optimize in PF, which in turn causes things to become weird edge-case rules arguments.
(Not directed at you, DM, directed at the writers of the adventure.)
Well, I know about the creature since I had to build the encounters (for Hero Lab, not Paizo), but I didn't exactly simulate fighting them, of course. This fight is really dangerous, but the fact that half of us can fight easily underwater let us get complacent with our earlier encounters.
Ugh. Well, Weyve still has his action this round, then I will update. :(
Well... to quote Will Smith in Independence Day, I ain't heard mom fat lady!
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Eep...that's what I get for not policing my posts from Wayfinder. No fat lady, obviously.
I suppose I should go ahead and make up an alternate character too, though, just in case. Probably gonna be either that or a deus ex machina...which, speaking for myself, I wouldn't complain about. The one campaign I've GMed for real-life (Second Darkness) only got all the way to the end with the original characters because I lied about several behind-screen rolls and threw a god or two into the machine.
Tobar, you said you already have an alternate character. If I may ask, what do you have on the books, so I don't make one that overlaps with him/her?
Also, Brainiac, I'm assuming same character creation rules as before? How would you feel about a Vanara druid?
EDIT: Not giving up on Gideon, for the record! Still want him to live!
Interested in knowing too, so I may have a backup prepared.
Assuming the Dicebot continues its cavalcade of destruction, I have a backup idea of a gillman sorcerer (psychic bloodline blaster - themed as having eerie psychic phenomena dating back to old aboleth influences), but that could leave us without a trapfinder (if Tobar and Gideon both die). Should the party wipe, though, we'll need a full reset of roles anyway.
Gideon, now is the time to burn through all of your luck points!
Also, I have a few rough notions for a bard or a mystic theurge hybrid caster/item creator, if the sorcerer wouldn't be a good fit.
I'll do the skill build then, if the group gets wiped.
I wish I could burn through my luck points; I've only been conscious for one round of this fight and I did use a luck point there. Gideon got dropped by that doggone cleave before he could even attack the big bad.
Ah. Your stat bar shows you at 14/14 hit points, so I thought you were still functional.
That's my bad...I just never updated it; updated now. No, that Cleave hit from the big grindylow met my AC and did 17 damage and dropped me to -3 HP. So...y'all basically have been fighting this thing with just 3/4 of a party from the very beginning.
Well, Weyve, it's up to you!
No pressure though, right? :)
Well, the grindylow missed this round! You've got another chance to take her down.
TPK averted!
That was entirely too close! :D
This magical gear might help us out a bit, though! Two rings, a suit of armor, and magic spear?
The ring of swimming would be good for Gideon or Tobar. I'm not sure who would benefit more.
I wouldn't mind the wand. My UMD is pretty decent.
The mithral shirt would be nice for me... but I need to get my gear weight down. Or get some muleback cords. My carrying capacity is terrible. Even if Calvin is holding my bag I am still reduced to 20 feet movement if I wear it. Mind you, my DEX isn't that great anyway, so maybe I should wear it regardless.
Right now the things I am hoping to pick up are:
a Darkwood Buckler Shield - 205 gp - or an enchanted one, even better - mithral would be fine too but it's more expensive for the same overall effect.
and,
a Darkwood Light Underwater Crossbow 410 gp.
Darkwood is always masterwork and also weighs half as much as regular wooden items. Getting these saves me 4.5 lbs.
I'm hoping it might be possible to trade with some colonists for these things.
You can send out money orders for gear when the supply ship departs. The equipment will arrive after six weeks.
If you find a source of darkwood on the island, the blacksmith Luetin can also craft the items for you.
Would survival be the skill needed to identify a darkwood tree? Or knowledge (nature)? I have neither, for the record.
Definitely something to look out for. Darkwood would be a valuable resource for the colony too.
Knowledge (nature).
I am a marginally better swimmer than Gideon (by one point).
I think the mithral shirt is also better for our bard, as I already have AC 18.
A lot of that gear would be good for Gideon, but I'm not gonna get greedy. Of the things we've seen so far, of particular interest to Gideon would be the Ring of Swimming, the mithral shirt, or the magic spear. Before I jump in and go "oo! Mine!" though, I'm gonna get the group's and see what a more equitable distribution would be.
Not sure how close we are to hitting level 3, but we're closer than we were, so I wanna go ahead and poll everyone and get feedback on my level 3 feat.
I'm either gonna take Precise Shot or Lingering Performance; the former is pretty obvious as to why, but Lingering Performance has been ruled to work with Archaeologist's Luck since AL functions like Bardic Performance and that would effectively give me 18 rounds of the +2 Luck bonus on d20 rolls and damage rolls instead of just 6. Which does the group think would be more useful at this point?
I'm gonna take the other of them at level 5 anyway, so the real question is which of those two feats would be most useful for levels 3 and 4: the combat-specific one or the more universal one?
My vote is lingering performance.
Loot note, I could use the mithril chain shirt +1, or the amulet, I guess. The ring of ferocious action would be neat, considering how often I get dropped. :/
Of that loot, Gideon I would say Calvin should take the mithril shirt, for the same reason you took the magic ring earlier; you'll have the most immediately use of it.
For Gideon's part, I would say the Ring of Swimming and the +1 Spear, if everyone's cool with that.
I fel bad getting all the gears, but then again i will happily pass on an entire loot stash if they are better in you three's hands.
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Low level treasure usually favors martial characters.
Anyway, with Gideon's Archaeologist's luck ability, he probably would make a better melee fighter than Tobar. So My feeling is that Gideon should build to be a switch hitter of some kind rather than concentrate on ranged.
So:
1) the Lingering Performance feat sounds like a good idea.
2) We should try to improve Gideon's AC as well.
Since Gideon only has Studded Leather right now, the Mithril shirt will give him +2 to his AC as opposed to +1 for Calvin. Also as a non-natural swimmer Gideon may need to keep that armor check penalty down more than Calvin does.
So I would give Gideon the shirt and Calvin the amulet.
Does Gideon really need the spear? I am thinking he should pick up a buckler shield (they do not interfere with archery) but if he had that he would not be able to carry the spear. If we can find or buy a +1 rapier that would probably be way better for Gideon, especially because archaeologists's luck will multiply on a crit.
In the meantime, the expedition does have a smith. We can probably get him to make metal goods like masterwork weapons for now. Getting Gideon a masterwork rapier and a masterwork composite short bow are probably better than the +1 spear.
So I would rather sell the spear and see what we can buy.
GM: Are the expedition's clerics able to craft scrolls and/or potions that we could buy from them?
Alba the alchemist can make potions and alchemical items. Eamon can craft wondrous items and Kurvis can scribe scrolls. Luetin the blacksmith can make masterwork arms and armor.