[AP] Curse of the Crimson Throne by GMs Rutseg, Zek and Snowheart (Inactive)

Game Master Balacertar

I went ahead and pushed things forward to keep us moving, but feel free to continue discussing what you're going to say if you haven't fully made up your minds.

Thank you for handling the loot once again, Bashiel. As a reminder, you can go ahead and make purchases with the gold you received and also have said purchases with you already.

If we can get the doctor alone, Kalem wants to try the bluff of the century.

Right now he knows that the crazed elf was told to collect varisians
He knows that this hospital has healthy varisians being experimented on
He knows that the doctor cast a spell to hide his alignment
He sees agents of the Queen here...

2+2=Oh gosh they are all evil! And evil people can’t be trusted.

So the Bluff? That the queen is going to betray the doctor, as his usefulness will soon he at an end. Letting him live would be too dangerous for her. And that we work for a faction in court which would like to see the queen exposed. So we are here to get him to safety, and that he should gather anything he doesn’t want the queen to have as quickly as possible.

If it works? We lead him out of the hospice to our safe house. At which point he’s surrounded by us and is holding his incriminating evidence.

If it doesn’t work? Then...we’ll, it isn’t our first murder-fest.

But when else can I try such an audacious Bluff? Just letting everyone know my plan, so this doesn’t become Kalem going Leroy Jenkins

Interesting plan Kalem. One problem, why would he trust us?

Because (a) Kalem is really charming and (b) he hopefully doesn’t trust the Queen either. Anyone willing to victimize her own people is willing to turn on a lackey. So if it all goes well Kalem would be playing on pre-existing worries.

Plus saying we are for political enemies of the queen gives us a believable motive for helping him.

Maybe we're already too committed for other plans, but if we could get a couple of the doctor outfits we might be able to infiltrate farther in without a battle. Maybe we can try the bluff route while looking for chances to grab some.

Thanks for figuring out loot, Bash!

I find both of those answers unsatisfying and they didn’t answer the actual question.

I said why should he trust us, not believe us or distrust the Queen. But I suppose it doesn't matter since you already “Leeroy Jenkins” us anyway.

I...haven’t? All I did was try to move us to his office. And I’m discussing the plan here. What would Varor like to do?

Honestly, I wasn’t trying to tie us down to anything...did I fail in that?

Varor, we haven't seen any better plans from anyone. We're not locked into anything, but we need to start pushing these doctors on their stories, I think. You've had your own Leeroy Jenkins moments with the rat folk.

Also, I bought a darkwood buckler.

I’m happy to move things along to but just because I can point out a flaw in a plan doesn’t mean that I have a better one. Misdirection is a spell that people, you know, hide. So tell me how did Kalem notice the spell and was able to identify it so easily?

If I had to pitch a plan... try to convince him that we work for the Queen and tell him that something happened that the manor. Then we head back to the manor and ambushed whoever gets sent to investigate and use whatever we can get as a disguise. It’s either plague doctors or gray maidens and if it’s something else someone else well we know that we have more enemies to worry about.

That’s just off the top of my head though. And yeah my moment with the rats was pretty dumb but I was well informed that if I died because of my actions it was entirely my fault. I went in knowing that to be the case without anyone having to tell me.

Because Zamanda told us.

She explains that she saw Doctor Davaulus agree to meet them, and then immediately cast the spell Misdirection on himself--clearly the reason that he didn't detect as evil previously.

And while I like the “we Work for the queen angle” what I was hoping for was to get him away from the gray maidens. And to avoid questions such as “why the guard and not her favored minions? Why didn’t anyone else know about it? Why all the secrecy? And let me just gather a large group of bodyguards to check it out. You won’t come with me.”

My hope was to make him distrust his allies enough that he wouldn’t want them to come.

I also had Kalem include the Misdirection line with the Bluff so he wouldn’t trust his illusion spells. While they work fine, the hope was that he would think that they don’t.

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Also if I go out of my way not to Leroy us, please don’t accuse me of that. It’s...not very pleasant.

Because Zamanda told us.

When I said, “how did Kalem notice the spell and was able to identify it so easily?” I wasn’t talking about us, I know how we know. I meant how are you going to explain it to everyone else? We just walked into the office, the doctor greeted us, and then you talk about the misdirection spell immediately. Zamanda told us is not going to fly as an explanation.

And as for the Leroy Jenkins thing... I’m not a WoW player so I only know what that is because of the meme. If there’s more to it than that then I don’t know what it is, so if I said something offensive I’m sorry.

For Misdirection, Kalem bluffs. It’s what he does. If the doctor asks he’ll lie. Best case scenario the doctor makes up his own rationale. “He’s a sorcerer! He has true seeing. He’s got a magic item. He has some weird tiefling ability.” Whatever. Also this puts him on the back foot. We came into *his* home where he feels most secure. By flipping the table around and confusing him in the first meeting, we take away that good mojo. But to reiterate: the last thing the doctor is going to hear is the truth. ;)

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As for Leroy Jenkins.

The group was talking tactics and carefully planning it out. Then Leroy Jenkins ran in by himself. The group leader went “Oh my god, he just went in.” His friends ran after him and everyone died.

So to be a Leroy Jenkins is to act without telling anyone else, leading to the group getting screwed over.

So I threw in the wrinkle of going along with his expectations of disease samples, but we can just tell him that part was a bluff once we get him in private, if we still want to go with the queen betrayal story.

I kind of prefer Varor's idea that we are now working for the Queen, but we could really spin it either way. I don't like either idea of trying to get him out of the hospital though. I realize that would be nice, but we need to get the Varisian subjects out, and they are in the room to the South. ... No idea why the other doctors aren't in there still as well, unless he thinks that he needs backup, which he might. We do have a reputation.

Personally, I would just like to get into a place without the gray maidens, and then kill all the doctors, and bluff our way back out with masks.

Barring that, I would like to lock the door where we are, and take the doctors down, hopefully not killing the maidens, but we would at least have to subdue them.

Seems like quietly killing the doctors is the group consensus?

I don't see how we're going to have the opening to do it "quietly" without having a lot of eyewitnesses. Just one freed patient deciding to describe us to the Grey Maidens is going to pitch us against the whole organization. Not to mention the ones already here.

My vote is definitely to gather evidence here (and use that to undermine Davaulus and his crew) and then confront them with violence in a better setting.

The patients are unconscious, so them talking isn't an issue. The sick people on the way in might say something though, if they don't die of the plague first.

What is going to be a better setting is my question. We're never just going to encounter them alone in a deserted warehouse or alley, are we? Undermining will do no good, since they have the queen behind them. Not saying that Cressida can't help at all... if we take her some evidence, then she can do more politically, but she still isn't going to start a war against the queen unless we have evidence against the *queen,* not just the doctor death squad over here.

They are going to keep killing people until we stop them. We need evidence not only of the doctor's evil, but we need more information about the disease so we can find a cure. How are we going to get that if we just walk right back out? We have to be able to search this place.

Well I’m confused about what we want to do. So I just went by ear. Hopefully can get us something. My post is the best attempt at making everyone happy. Maybe we can get some hard info to go off of in here and post-death-hospital.

And man...those dice were on fire. :p

That's a pretty good point Zamanda... we absolutely need free rein of this place if we're going to be able to find a cure. Maybe the adventure is purposely written to pit us against the Grey Maidens at this point? If so, they did a good job :>

I love the traitors angle from Kalem. And the dice had your back too.

Yeah, good point. I accept that we have to kill gray maidens. Hope your character's girlfriend isn't one of them. :)

I can't write a text unhappy-face that adequately expresses how cruel that'd be.

So many things I could say... but I suppose for now I'll just say that I'm really enjoying y'all's planning and banter. Your speculation is pretty great, too. : )

This is nail biting!

Look at this way Bash, she was at the bridge leading to the old part of the city when you last saw her right? We went to from that seen to this scene pretty quickly. She would have had to have been reassigned faster than that.

Plus she said that she was not fully trained. I doubt the Queen would lead her not fully trained maidens into her plague spreading house.

She will be the Queen’s personal body guard.

Probably. Oh, and Bash. If she ends up desecrating the dead I’m lording that over your head.

So... interesting situation. Do we try to continue the bluff, and then when one doctor comes in, kill him and the maiden (somehow without alerting the people outside), replace them, and then continue inviting them in? The noise factor has me worried on that front.

On the other hand, is NOW the time to attack Davalus while two people remain by the door to block interference? In that circumstance, we (probably) get evidence, since we have this room and the people, and access to the next room, which I am hoping has paperwork and stuff. We give the other bad guys time to run, but we have the big bad, and we come out with proof that the doctors are spreading the disease, and look like heroes.

I’d like to continue the Bluff for a bit. But I know it isn’t fair when one PC holds the spotlight too long. GM, could I make one more roll to represent talking to the doctors. With the Bluff determining how the interviews go and whether Kalem manages to get anything out of them?

Yes, that’s fine, Kalem. Go ahead and mention the types of questions and such that you ask them. I’ll update things after that.

Thanks! And...my god these rolls. If this was combat he’d be hitting with every blow and critting with a few as well. Instead I’m hoping we might just get some evidence out of this. :)

Now we are 100% certain that the queen is working with Urgathoans. This means she is behind the plague.

How do we proceed?

I think the better question is why is she working with them at all?

I think this has gone much better than any of us dared hope. Options going forward:

1. Take what we've found and report back to Cressida. One problem is she wanted something concrete, which we still don't have. The other, bigger problem is that this all implicates the Queen, in which case we wouldn't have many options even if Cressida backs us. However, the guys we lied to are a pretty big loose end...they'll likely try to track us down once they figure out they've been deceived.

2. Leave for now and try to break back in later to obtain evidence, perhaps with some disguises. However, the guys we lied to are a pretty big loose end...they'll likely try to track us down once they figure out they've been deceived.

3. Murder-hobo.

So...how about this? We go to the Varisian room. Z tells the doctor that I’d like to talk to him. Once he comes in we close the door and shank him. We then murder the rest of the Urgathoans.

Whooooooo, what a breakthrough in the latest gameplay thread post!

It sure is a good thing that the lower level Physicians are terrible at keeping their true intentions a secret. They basically delivered themselves on a silver platter.

I have a couple more questions for the Doctor before we start doing any slaying. Because even after we deal with these guys, we have a Rolth somewhere on the loose. I'm guessing (though I'm not certain) that these guys aren't the ones that spread it in the first place, and that Rolth organized it somehow.

We go to the Varisian room. Z tells the doctor that I’d like to talk to him. Once he comes in we close the door and shank him. We then murder the rest of the Urgathoans.

I'm not entirely sure what you mean by this. If by 'the Varisian room' you mean the room where they're experimenting on people, you're already in there along with Davaulus and one Gray Maiden. See the maps slides.

On a related note, if you do plan to kill all of them, I think it's fair to say you've got them thoroughly hoodwinked. As such, you'll probably get a surprise round as long as you're not too obvious about surrounding the doctor beforehand or something like that.

He still hasn't given us anything concrete at all... and I think we should kill them anyway, even if he does, so that is my vote.

I'm still fishing for a lead on Rolth, but if this doesn't work, it's probably better not to press my luck and lose our advantage. We might still be able to find concrete evidence and a lead by searching the building over.

Yeah Zamanda, everything we've heard so far has been unbelievably cruel and twisted so Bashiel is ready to dispense some justice! :>

I'm still trying to think of our best option at this point.

Surely, these guys are evil to the core and in need of justice. I also can't think of any additional leads we can pursue aside from the information we need here. But if we do decide to shut this place down with the sword, we're going to be hunted exiles, I think.

Do we have any better options that don't involve violence?

Also, Varor, do you want to weigh in on your thoughts before any death is dispensed?

I am, as always, for taking people alive. Of course, I know that nobody else has the same moral virtues Varor has, which is why I had that post earlier about taking people alive to give the city someone to blame.

I'm also for pursuing options, where possible, that don't involve killing people.

However, given that the Queen seems like the evil overlord and these doctors/grey maidens all work for her, capturing them alive and turning them over to the Queen (or someone else who works for the Queen, like Cressida), would likely just end up in them going free and us being executed.

Still, if we have any other options I'm open-minded.

These people are doing “cruel” experiments on innocent people. And Kalem doesn’t know who to turn prisoners over to. So he’d be for killing everyone he can to rescue those in need.

Unless there is someone we can give prisoners to?

The queen will just take them back if we turn them over to Cressida, honestly. And I am okay with that if it is Gray Maidens who aren't actively working at genocide, but the doctors need to die.

You guys aren’t thinking about this right. We need to convince the people that they’re guilty. If we can provide evidence that shows that these guys are responsible for the pain and suffering that everybody’s been going through, then the Queen will be forced to make a public execution of them.

I don't think she would publicly execute them, even if we could somehow convince a large majority of the people (how would we do that?). There have been riots and such that the guard has easily put down. The city is under martial law...there's not going to be a rebellion against the queen right now.

Plus, if the Queen executes them (which I see no reason for her to do)...they're dying anyway.

The doctors are masked...if we start a riot it will be put down. And if they demand blood there is no way of knowing if the queen even executes the right people

Maybe the hell knights? If we get any prisoners (not sure how we will get them, but if we do) they might be a good place to turn them in. With proof that the queen is behind it. A Hell Knight order would be good to have on our side

Yeah, we don't have a network set up to accomplish turning the people against the queen. I'm not even sure how we would get the word out.

In a nice Lawful Good nation, we would turn in the criminals and follow the laws. We would have recourse with the law and the courts.

But in a nation ruled by a Lawful Evil(?) ruler, doing good may require some vigilante behavior on our part.

Yes, the doctors are wearing masks. It’s a shame we can't take them off.

I’m saying we capture people. Right? And gather evidence that incriminates these people. Okay? Then, we take them to the person we’re working for, who works for the Queen. Alright? Then we start spreading the word that people were spreading the plague have been captured and are in the Queen’s custody. Have I lost anyone? Mentioning that it’s Cressida who has them all detained. People will start demanding that heads roll, and the Queen will be in no position to stop anything without making it very obvious that she’s complicit.

And if you believe that the people’s response would be “mah”. That it’s not going to spread faster than gossip in a small town neighborhood... People have died. An entire section of the city has been put under quarantine. I would want to know what would be a more important topic of discussion than the plague.

How do we capture them? I'm guessing that the doctor is a powerful spellcaster. And there are gray maidens here. Warriors in full plate.

Right now Kalem's instinct is to take the element of surprise to bash the doctor's head in. Pretty sure that'd anger Varor though.

So I'm willing to take suggestions on how to get to that point.

Sorry Varor! Saw the gameplay post after the discussion one. I just have no idea how to bluff out of that. The best I could come up with is "underground" but all that does is make him demand a more concrete answer. The gig really was up. So I took the surprise round.

Ouch! I thought I'd done a pretty slick job of threading the needle between believable story and not actually lying about anything, but the dice decided to roast me anyway. I guess I'll leave the bluff rolls to the experts from now on.

I think you have the next move Kalem, but I haven't exactly set you up for success.
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As far as capturing the whole two dozen or so people here, I'm not sure we have the luxury. This is a heck of a lot of enemies. We'd be lucky once a fight starts to get through with everyone intact.

I'm agreed with Ilsa, exposing the doctors is a great way to get more rioting, more heavy handed crackdowns from the Grey Maidens and other law enforcement, and some big targets painted on our backs. Plus, we've already seen how the Queen is willing to execute a scapegoat and spin a story to manipulate the public. It'd quickly end up being our word vs. her word and her might. Not the kind of clash I'm expecting it'd be easy to survive.