
TheOrcnextdoor |
Viviana Masters wrote:I wouldn't worry about arcane as I'm still working on a stormborn sorcerer over the past week with a magus cohort. IMO just play whatever character you want to play first, and worry about party balance second.The only problem with that is that I have at least 3-4 characters in mind that I'd really like to play... Which one I want to play most varies from day to day so things like party balance help me to settle on a concept.
Amen

Harakhty Suntooth |

Here is the background for my submission-in-progress. Criticism is welcome from GM and players alike:
She turned to her dutiful husband, himself gobbling down a piece, his silence approval enough. "Your polypurpose panacea really does the trick, Pal!" She set her fingers on his wrist. "But don't get too used to it! Most of the fruit is headed to the crown for the festival."
Pallesh washed the pie down with some tea. "Elly, they're not going to eat it all! Besides, you'll be keeping some for your students. As chief sampler, I - "
"You," she said, playfully poking the plump inventor in the chest with a finger, "will be busy securing us paperwork for our survey in the lands to the East. That opportunity - which you insisted on, let me remind you - will give us more crops and livestock grazing fields. Then you can have twice as many slices ... not that you need them."
Pallesh chuckled, his copper skin and dark hair blending into the natural colors of their well-stocked yet modest interior. "I'll take the coin and prestige as a first course, but a few sweets never hurt anyone. Especially this one." The well-dressed gentleman gave her a kiss. "All these preparations have really taken it out of me thought. I'm turning in. See you when you come upstairs."
Eleanor didn't mind fame or riches either, but she did so want to break out of the mold she'd been in; after her culinary talent catapulted her into the local spotlight years ago, tradesfolk and other visitors had incessantly sought her our of their little town on the fringes of Restov. Meal production and baking soon made her bacon instead of tilling their farm. Pallesh hired extra help so Eleanor could work full-time honing her skills, and his profession as an alchemist and hobby as an innovator gave her additional possibilities to explore.
She cleaned-up the dishes and took the pie's remains down to the cellar. Her eyes swept across the rows of wine casks and beer kegs, bags of grain and cheese wheels. "Thank you, Erastil, for providing for us. May all kin of Golarion respect the land, and may we extend your bounty to each other."
When she'd moved-in with Pallesh at his farmhouse, she'd moved away from her elven mother, Aria Brightstar, and her human father, Drake Miller. An only child, she was much loved by them, but she was anxious to step out of her mother's shadow. Aria had an otherworldly voice, and visitors to their more-furnished home always focused on the alto to the exclusion of Drake and his daughter. Her father didn't seem to mind being overlooked, though he batted a few lewd cads off from his wife with his work-strengthened muscles. Eleanor, on the other hand, did. She felt invisible and could attract the gaze of no man - except Pallesh. The Taldan then had been quite catching, but it was with words, not muscles; he always had his face in a book of some sort. Out of place in such a town, he only came to their village to distance himself from his overbearing parents, Ibbi and Edran. The two were part of the blue-bloods in Oppara, and they weren't pleased with their son's independent spirit pushing-back against their arranged marriages and insertion into the bureaucracy. He set-out with a piece of their wealth, bought the plot they were on now, and they soon eloped.
"Hey - does 'each other' include me?" A teenager gathered himself off the floor from behind the stairs and pointed at the pie. "Smells pretty good, Mrs. Izoba."
"Cedric! What did I say about walking about shirtless? It's not even that hot out!"
"Well, I was taking a nap. Magda's got the little ones today, and I finished my chores early." He smiled sheepishly at her. The disarming gaze melted Eleanor's usual resilience.
"Oh, fine... ah-ah!.. where's your spoon?! Elysium knows where those fingers have been!" She pulled the dish out of reach until he retrieved his spook from the side table.
Cedric was a sad story. His parents had originally been residents of Restov before moving to the outskirts and starting a life of their own, much like Eleanor. However, their child had been born with hair that remained blond - a color neither parents possessed. In addition to eyes and bone structure more aligned with his mother's, Cedric began to manifest magical sounds and colors with but a focused thought. While his mother found the talent a blessing, Cedric's father thought it a curse. The father accused the mother of infidelity, and shortly thereafter, two arrows were found in her skull, the body by a riverbank. Her husband had vanished.
The first to stumble upon her, Cedric wept at the sight, and he and his mother's corpse were alone until Eleanor arrived, hearing the sounds as she foraged for berries. Consoling him as best she could, she brought the boy to her home, only 6 at the time, and fed him. Truth be told, he's what pushed her into the culinary arts; the desire had always been with her, but the drive to bring a little joy through taste and help dispel Cedric's sorrow with sweetness sealed the deal.
Pallesh was a bit resentful of the attention Cedric drew away from him after a while, and he wanted Eleanor to take him to an orphanage in a more major town. Torn, Eleanor looked to the gods for advice. That night, she had a dream of an idyllic forest with a doe and a stage. They walked through a wall of shrubs into a meadow of unimaginable beauty, critters of all kinds sipping from a crystal brook and feeding on allmeal. From behind a tree walked a stag-man. "Provide for the land, and the land will provide." The following day was her first as an eager priestess - then an acolyte - of Erastil, one of only two clergy in the town.
"Mmm... Mr. Izoba wasn't kidding - this one is going to get you a lot more notice than you already have!" He licked the crumbs off his lips.
"That's very kind of you. I'll probably send a slice to Magda to see what she thinks."
"Umm ... she might not be feeling up to it."
As the wife of an alchemist, Eleanor knew the young woman would've come to her were she truly ill. "Pal would've made her an elixir. What's the real reason?"
"Well ... she's pregnant again." Cedric blushed.
Eleanor blinked, her lips pursed. "Yours, I presume?"
Cedric laughed, breaking his tension. "I'm pretty sure!"
"This isn't funny, Cedric! Who's going to look out for them while you're out and about in the Stolen Lands, hmm?"
"I kind of thought Jill could help out..."
"You think the OTHER mother of one of your children is going to want to help?!"
The sorcery in Cedrick's blood was evident, but the onset of puberty made him even more of a wild child. He was very handsome to many of the girls in the town, and he had no reservations about attempting intimacy with as many as he could. During an encounter with Jill when he was 16, his first child was conceived, and two months later, his first of three with Magda took hold. Magda and Cedric later married, but Jilly was understandably bitter about the situation. Four years later, Cedric and the two on talking terms, but they were still only as close as acquaintances. The three rotated from living in Cedric's parents' house to Eleanor's from time to time.
Eleanor had a soft spot for Cedric though, and for a few reasons. First, try as they had, she and Pallesh could not conceive children. She was more disappointed than he was, but that made Cedric all the more precious as he was the son she never had. Secondly, she knew he had a good heart. After raising him fro thirteen years, he had few secrets from her. Lastly, she had inquired of the gods why Cedric struggled to control his passions. He had been unfaithful numerous times overt the past few years, but he often seemed as torn-up about the trysts as the mothers of his children were. The goddess Desna offered an affirmative to Elenor's inquiry if his unusual blood was a cause. That response did not completely absolve Cedric of guilt in his behavior, but it did give her an out to empathize with his struggle.
As Cedric looked embarrassed, Eleanor sighed. "At least it was with the right girl. May her belly grow as big as your hearts for each other."
Relieved, Cedric hugged her. "Thanks, Mrs. Izoba!" He stepped back, a look of fresh memory on his face. "Avery wasn't around when I went to feed her today."
"I know," replied Eleanor. "She was out scouting around for her own food, I'm sure. Take your nap - but don't touch this pie!" She set it on a shelf in the corner before climbing back up the stairs.
Avery was a bond between her and Erastil, given shortly after Cedric had his second child. The eagle watched over them as Eleanor couldn't be everywhere with this upcoming adventure into the new land. She had Avery poking into the attached pieces of land nearby. Something felt uncertain to her, perhaps danger, perhaps a thrill...
That feeling would have to wait until tomorrow though. For now, the farmhands had finished their day-labor. They needed a more savory confection. "Come inside, boys. Shepard's pie tonight." Their murmurs of agreement made her smile...

Harakhty Suntooth |

About Eleanor.
Nice story, but I am a little confusing.
Who are the characters you are going to submit?
The idea of farmers going into the Stolen Lands is good, but I was planning on having adventurers, and not pioneers, as characters.
Don't worry about it, we can make it work.
Eleanor is the primary character, Pallesh the cohort, and Cedric one of the followers. Each had done some adventuring in years past, prior to their now-calmer lifestyle. I just felt this write-up gave a better idea of their personalities. I can flesh-out the backgrounds further if you like.

Aramil Wellys |

After reading that, I'm suddenly thinking that it was a bad idea to make one of my followers Aramil's young sorceress cousin.
The priestess of Erastil should get along well with Eleanor, though.
I still need to finish up Porablum's equipment, but he should be ready to go and linked into Aramil's profile soon.
My followers are almost done as well, in the profile. There's a bit of a write-up about each of them, their appearance, how they joined the group, and equipment. I'm still working out transportation for them.
I was wondering what you though of my using some of their starting wealth (since they each have 300) to purchase a wagon and provisions for the expedition. I figured it might make sense with a journey to unsettled lands.

Viviana Masters |

Amavin Zephyra had an unusual life right from a young age. A woodsman discovered her alone in the forest and took the girl home with him. That night, a terrific thunderstorm raged, and her makeshift parents, being a rather superstitious bunch, attributed the change in weather into the girl that had suddenly come into their care. Amavin herself had no recollection as to who her parents were, or why she had been found in a forest, the mystery remaining currently unsolved. For her part, Amavin was more concerned with mastering her magical abilities which would sometimes pour out without her realising it. Deciding to find finer control over her magical abilities, Amavin gradually roamed the region, looking to improve her connection with her magic. Having no sisters or bothers, Amavin was gradually used to the solitude of her roaming, although despite this she was always drawn to any urban area’s she passed through, always curious and enjoying talking with strangers. Amavin could be very charming when she wanted to be, and was always happy listening to the stories various strangers had to tell.
As her skills grew more pronounced however, Amavin began using her magic to assist whenever possible. While she had previously been using it defensively, Amavin began to look at more aggressive options to help those that might be more passive that she was. It started off small, perhaps simple negotiations, but Amavin began assisting in slightly greater ways. On one occasion, Amavin ran into a group of bandits, that had managed to take an elven warrior captive and stripped her of much of her possessions. Thinking tactically, Amavin unleashed a magical fog on the area, limiting sight before filling the area with cracking lightning, slaying those that stayed and encouraging the rest to flee in panic. In gratitude for assisting her in a time of need, the elf, introducing herself as Ishana, decided to follow Amavin on her quest, and together, the two of them were able to gradually limit the number of terror’s present in the region.
Amavin Zephyra
Female human sorcerer 7
CG Medium humanoid (human)
Init +6; Senses Perception +7
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Defense
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AC 14, touch 13, flat-footed 12 (+1 deflection, +2 Dex, +1 natural)
hp 52 (7d6+10)
Fort +6, Ref +5, Will +7
Defensive Abilities stormchild; Resist electricity 5, sonic 5
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Offense
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Speed 30 ft. (20 ft. in armor)
Bloodline Spell-Like Abilities (CL 7th; concentration +13)
9/day—thunderstaff
Sorcerer Spells Known (CL 7th; concentration +13)
3rd (5/day)—fireball (DC 21), lightning bolt (DC 22), stinking cloud (DC 19)
2nd (8/day)—fog cloud, glitterdust (DC 18), gust of wind (DC 20), invisibility, mirror image, scorching ray
1st (8/day)—color spray (DC 17), grease, mage armor, magic missile, obscuring mist, shocking grasp, silent image (DC 17), vanish[APG] (DC 17)
0 (at will)—dancing lights, detect magic, light, mage hand, message, prestidigitation, read magic
Bloodline Stormborn
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Statistics
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Str 8, Dex 14, Con 12, Int 14, Wis 10, Cha 22
Base Atk +3; CMB +2; CMD 16
Feats Eschew Materials, Great Fortitude, Greater Spell Focus (evocation), Improved Initiative, Leadership, Nemesis, Spell Penetration
Traits influence, noble born - orlovsky
Skills Acrobatics -1 (-5 to jump), Bluff +16, Diplomacy +17, Knowledge (arcana) +12, Perception +7, Spellcraft +12, Survival +0 (+2 to avoid becoming lost), Use Magic Device +16
Languages Auran, Common, Sylvan
SQ bloodline arcana (+1 to save DC of spells with electricity or sonic descriptor)
Combat Gear scroll of darkvision, scroll of enlarge person, scroll of fly, scroll of fly, scroll of fly, scroll of haste, scroll of protection from evil, scroll of sleet storm, scroll of stone call, scroll of true strike; Other Gear scarlet and blue sphere ioun stone, amulet of natural armor +1, cloak of resistance +1, handy haversack, headband of alluring charisma +2, ring of protection +1, wayfinder[ISWG], backpack, bedroll, belt pouch, flint and steel, mess kit[UE], perfume, exotic[ISWG] (10), pot, soap, torch (10), trail rations (5), waterskin, 5,467 gp
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Special Abilities
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Bloodline Arcana: Stormborn +1 to save DC of spells with electricity or sonic descriptor.
Energy Resistance, Electricity (5) You have the specified Energy Resistance against Electricity attacks.
Energy Resistance, Sonic (5) You have the specified Energy Resistance against Sonic attacks.
Eschew Materials Cast spells without materials, if component cost is 1 gp or less.
Greater Spell Focus (Evocation) +1 to the Save DC of spells from one school.
Leadership (score 16: 11th; 25/2/1) You attract loyal companions and devoted followers.
Spell Focus [Mythic, Evocation] Use 1 power to force any of the spell's targets to save twice, taking lower roll.
Stormborn +1 DC for [electricity] and [sonic] spells.
Stormchild (Resist Electricity & Sonic 5, -1 Wind effects) (Ex) Gain electricity and sonic resistance 5 and treat wind effects as 1 step lower.
Thunderstaff (Shock 3 rds, 9/day) (Sp) Touch a weapon to grant the Shock power for 3 rds.
Amavin has a slim build, average height with a slightly tanned skin complexion along with dark brown hair that she usually keeps unbound. In dress, Amavin dresses practically, as she spends a fair amount of her time travelling she doesn’t really bother with long flowing gowns that might get ripped or torn. That doesn’t mean that she wears heavy travel clothing either, as Amavin hates the restriction. Therefore, Amavin prioritises single close fitting garments so as to not restrict movement unduly. Amavin isn’t married to a particular colour scheme, choosing to wear whatever takes her fancy on the day. Yellow or gold would be her favourite color, but she tends to wear darker clothing more often than not, although when she feels a little adventurous she might trim a favourite garment with gold thread or lining.
In personality, Amavin is very changeable which usually reflects the situation she finds herself in. As Ishana once remarked casually, her face is usually never the same twice, as Amavin can change moods very quickly. Despite this, Amavin is very approachable, happy to chat with anyone remotely friendly, although she isn’t one to poke and pry into other people’s affairs, therefore the people who keep to themselves she usually leaves alone. Amavin tries to keep on good terms with as many people as she can, often acting as a peacemaker, and a foil for Ishana who is frequently quite aggressive. Amavin often thinks ahead, a key factor in her personality as she tries to plan for various outcomes. For instance, Amavin is aware that unfortunately she isn’t particularly knowledgeable about some threats active in the region, and therefore tries to be friendly with those that are, so that she can continue helping others to the best that she can. This has become less of an issue as of late since Ishana has joined Amavin.
Ishana Tamanna
Female elf magus (kensai) 5 (Pathfinder RPG Ultimate Combat 55, Pathfinder RPG Ultimate Magic 9)
CG Medium humanoid (elf)
Init +3; Senses low-light vision; Perception +7
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Defense
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AC 19, touch 18, flat-footed 11 (+1 armor, +3 Dex, +5 dodge)
hp 40 (5d8)
Fort +5, Ref +5, Will +5; +2 vs. enchantments
Defensive Abilities canny defense +5; Immune sleep
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Offense
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Speed 30 ft. (20 ft. in armor)
Melee +1 scimitar +8 (1d6+4/18-20)
Special Attacks arcane pool (+2, 7 points), magus arcana (arcane accuracy[UM]), spell combat, spellstrike
Magus (Kensai) Spells Prepared (CL 5th; concentration +10)
2nd—frigid touch[UM], glitterdust (DC 17)
1st—frostbite[UM] (3), shocking grasp (2)
0 (at will)—detect magic, light, prestidigitation
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Statistics
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Str 10, Dex 16, Con 10, Int 20, Wis 10, Cha 10
Base Atk +3; CMB +3; CMD 21
Feats Dervish Dance[ISWG], Enforcer[APG], Foeslayer, Rime Spell[UM], Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus (scimitar)
Skills Acrobatics +0 (-4 to jump), Intimidate +8, Knowledge (arcana) +13, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +13, Knowledge (planes) +13, Perception +7, Perform (dance) +5, Spellcraft +13 (+15 to identify magic item properties); Racial Modifiers +2 Perception, +2 Spellcraft to identify magic item properties
Languages Celestial, Common, Draconic, Elven, Gnome, Orc, Sylvan
SQ arcane focus, chosen weapon, elven magic, perfect strike
Combat Gear wand of shield (50 charges); Other Gear +1 scimitar, bracers of armor +1, cloak of resistance +1, backpack, bedroll, belt pouch, flint and steel, hemp rope (50 ft.), ink, inkpen, magus starting spellbook, mess kit[UE], pot, soap, spell component pouch, torch (10), trail rations (5), waterskin, 4,913 gp
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Special Abilities
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Arcane Accuracy +5 (Su) 1 Arcane Pool: +5 to attack rolls until the end of your turn.
Arcane Focus +2 to concentration checks to cast arcane spells defensively.
Arcane Pool +2 (7/day) (Su) Infuse own power into a held weapon, granting enhancement bonus or selected item powers.
Canny Defense +5 (Ex) +INT bonus to AC (max Kensai level).
Chosen Weapon (Scimitar) Kensai abilities only function when wielding a weapon of this type.
Dervish Dance Use Dex modifier instead of Str modifier with scimitar
Elven Immunities - Sleep You are immune to magic sleep effects.
Elven Magic +2 to spellcraft checks to determine the properties of a magic item.
Enforcer If you deal nonlethal damage with a melee weapon, make a free Intimidate check to demoralize.
Foeslayer () +1 to AC & the DC of spells and abilities vs. .
Low-Light Vision See twice as far as a human in dim light, distinguishing color and detail.
Perfect Strike (Ex) Use 1 arcane pool to maximize weapon dam, or 2 for +1 to crit multiplier.
Rime Spell Spell with the cold descriptor also entangles creatures if the spell damages them
Spell Combat (Ex) Use a weapon with one hand at -2 and cast a spell with the other.
Spellstrike (Su) Deliver touch spells as part of a melee attack.
Ishana is both similar and different to Amavin. While Amavin is frequently ambivalent towards religion as a whole, Ishana finds a close connection with Calistria, the patron elven goddess. Considering that Ishana also drives herself largely on revenge against perceived slights, it’s easy to see why she favours such a deity. With a fiery personality, Ishana isn’t the greatest at diplomacy, something that frustrates Amavin to no end. Often at attempt to charm someone to her point of view, or an attempt to find a peaceful resolution has been largely spoiled by Ishana overstepping the mark of an acceptable response. Despite this, Ishana is rather well travelled, and Amavin relies heavily on her friend to fill any gaps in her knowledge when making plans. While Amavin might consider herself the leader of the duo, Ishana has the edge in tactical awareness, and as such in a typically aggressive situation, Amavin will defer to her elvish friend.
In description, Ishana has a slender build which she attributes to her attempts to remain as flexible as possible. While some fighters might favour brute strength in combat, Ishana favours speed, flexibility, grace, above all else, and frequently takes the opportunity to dance in her leisure time, as a method of practise and keeping fit. Like Amavin, her skin is tanned slightly be being out in the sunlight, however her hair is black compared with Amavin’s brown. In dress, Ishana likewise favours the similar style of clothing that Amavin favours, clothing that doesn’t restrict movement, but remains practical wear. Ishana has a slight dislike of obvious finery, and as such doesn’t much understand Amavin’s preferences for perfume and the like thinking it largely impractical.
As a small disclaimer, deciding what Amavin’s followers would be doing was really hard since Amavin doesn’t really have a fixed “home”. After a bit of thinking, I decided that Ishana might have been a bit opportunistic and attempted to create a group of people that might follow Ishana’s religious beliefs, but aid Amavin’s priorities. As mentioned in the backstory, what Amavin most highly prizes is information, if shes out roaming the countryside killing some fantastic beast, its time she isn’t in the nearest town learning about, say, the rise of a bandit leader in town. Therefore Ishana’s attempted to create a small Calistrian church active in the region which acts almost as a minor network of information for Amavin. I don’t want this ‘network’ idea to get complicated or anything, it’s just a way for her followers to feel connected and useful to Amavin, without making them little more than cheerleaders. With a leadership score of 16, currently the group would be lead by a level 3 priestess, have two level 2 inquisitors taking the place of church protectors and the remaining 25 followers are an assorted group of people that might be useful in gathering information for Amavin, such as perhaps the odd rogue or bard. I’m happy to break this down further, and personalize each and every one of the 28 individuals (currently) but I’m keeping it vague at the moment at this early stage in case adjustments are required.

GM Grog |

Alright, so here goes my LG Hellknight group,
Young Dragons
Axhammer Rocknose
Gnome Hellknight 1/oracle (enlightened philosopher) 1/paladin (tempered champion) 5 (Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Inner Sea World Guide 278, Pathfinder RPG Advanced Player's Guide 42, Pathfinder RPG Ultimate Magic 58, Weapon Master's Handbook 7)
LG Small humanoid (gnome)
Init -2; Senses darkvision 60 ft., low-light vision; Perception +0
Aura courage (10 ft.)
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Defense
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AC 21, touch 12, flat-footed 20 (+9 armor, +1 Dex, +1 size)
hp 87 (7 HD; 1d8+6d10+19)
Fort +11, Ref +9, Will +9; +2 vs. illusions
Defensive Abilities defensive training; Immune disease, fear
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Offense
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Speed 20 ft. (15 ft. in armor)
Melee +1 adamantine morningstar +11/+6 (1d6+3) or
gauntlet (from armor) +9/+4 (1d2+2) or
unarmed strike +9/+4 (1d2+2 nonlethal)
Special Attacks channel positive energy 3/day (DC 16, 3d6), hatred, sacred weapon (1d8, 0), smite chaos 1/day (+4 attack and AC, +1 damage), smite evil 2/day (+4 attack and AC, +5 damage)
Spell-Like Abilities (CL 7th; concentration +11)
1/day—dancing lights, ghost sound (DC 15), prestidigitation, speak with animals
Hellknight Spell-Like Abilities (CL 1st; concentration +5)
At will—detect chaos
Paladin Spell-Like Abilities (CL 5th; concentration +9)
At will—detect evil
Oracle (Enlightened Philosopher) Spells Known (CL 1st; concentration +5)
1st (4/day)—cure light wounds
Mystery Lore
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Statistics
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Str 14, Dex 7, Con 15, Int 14, Wis 8, Cha 18
Base Atk +6; CMB +7; CMD 15
Feats Apotheosis, Athletic, Extra Revelation[APG], Leadership, Weapon Focus (morningstar)
Traits pioneer, questing hellknight
Skills Acrobatics -7 (-15 to jump), Climb +3, Diplomacy +11, Intimidate +12, Knowledge (arcana) +8, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +8, Knowledge (engineering) +8, Knowledge (geography) +8, Knowledge (history) +8, Knowledge (local) +8, Knowledge (nature) +8, Knowledge (nobility) +8, Knowledge (planes) +14, Knowledge (religion) +8, Perception +0, Profession (soldier) +5, Ride -3, Spellcraft +6, Swim +3
Languages Common, Dwarven, Elven, Gnome, Sylvan
SQ divine bond, divine bond (weapon +1, 1/day), gnome magic, Hellknight order (order of the godclaw[ISWG]), lay on hands 6/day (2d6), mercy (fatigued), oracle's curse (legalistic), revelations (lore keeper, sidestep secret), vow to self
Other Gear Hellknight plate[ISWG], +1 adamantine morningstar, 142 gp
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Tracked Resources
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Dancing Lights (1/day) - 0/1
Divine Bond (Weapon +1, 5 mins, 1/day) (Sp) - 0/1
Ghost Sound (1/day) - 0/1
Lay on Hands (2d6 hit points, 6/day) (Su) - 0/6
Paladin Channel Positive Energy 3d6 (3/day, DC 16) (Su) - 0/3
Prestidigitation (1/day) - 0/1
Questing Hellknight (1/day) - 0/1
Smite Chaos (1/day) (Su) - 0/1
Smite Evil (2/day) (Su) - 0/2
Speak with Animals (1/day) - 0/1
Vow to Self (1/day) - 0/1
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Special Abilities
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Apotheosis +2 to Con checks to stabilize.
Aura of Courage +4 (10 ft.) (Su) Allies in aura gain a morale bonus to saves vs. fear.
Darkvision (60 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white only).
Defensive Training +4 Gain a dodge bonus to AC vs. monsters of the Giant subtype.
Detect Chaos (At will) (Sp) You can use Detect Chaos at will (as the spell).
Detect Evil (At will) (Sp) You can use detect evil at will (as the spell).
Divine Bond (Su) Expend a lay on hands usage to activate your divine bond
Divine Bond (Weapon +1, 5 mins, 1/day) (Sp) Weapon shines with light and gains enhancement bonuses or chosen properties.
Gnome Magic Add 1 to the DCs of any saving throws to resist illusion spells cast.
Hatred +1 Gain a bonus to attack vs. goblinoid/reptilian humanoids.
Immunity to Disease You are immune to diseases.
Immunity to Fear (Ex) You are immune to all fear effects.
Lay on Hands (2d6 hit points, 6/day) (Su) As a standard action (swift on self), touch channels positive energy and applies mercies.
Leadership (score 11: 7th; 6) You attract loyal companions and devoted followers.
Legalistic The shackles of Hell impose savage consequences should you violate a covenant, but also imbue you with remarkable guile. Whenever you break your word (either purposefully or unintentionally), you become sickened for 24 hours or until you meet your ob
Lore Keeper (Ex) Knowledge Skills become CHA-based.
Low-Light Vision See twice as far as a human in dim light, distinguishing color and detail.
Mercy (Fatigued) (Su) When you use your lay on hands ability, it also removes the fatigued condition.
Paladin Channel Positive Energy 3d6 (3/day, DC 16) (Su) Positive energy heals the living and harms the undead; negative has the reverse effect.
Sacred Weapon (Su) As a swift action, grant weapon enhancement bonus or certain powers.
Smite Chaos (1/day) (Su) +4 to hit, +1 to damage, +4 deflection bonus to AC when used.
Smite Evil (2/day) (Su) +4 to hit, +5 to damage, +4 deflection bonus to AC when used.
Vow to Self (1/day) +4 morale bonus to one role to keep a promise.
Alexander Burfoot
Halfling cavalier (beast rider) 5 (Pathfinder RPG Advanced Player's Guide 32, Pathfinder RPG Ultimate Combat 36)
LG Small humanoid (halfling)
Init +4; Senses Perception +2
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Defense
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AC 18, touch 15, flat-footed 14 (+3 armor, +4 Dex, +1 size)
hp 65 (5d10+15)
Fort +7, Ref +6, Will +2; +2 Morale bonus when threatening the target of your challenge, +2 trait bonus vs. fear and compulsion when acting in service of liege or legitimate leader, +2 vs. fear
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Offense
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Speed 20 ft.
Melee mithral scimitar +11 (1d4+4/18-20) or
unarmed strike +10 (1d2-1 nonlethal)
Special Attacks banner +2, cavalier's charge, challenge 2/day (+5 damage, +2 to saves while threaten), tactician 2/day (Share Healing, 5 rds)
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Statistics
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Str 8, Dex 18, Con 15, Int 16, Wis 10, Cha 9
Base Atk +5; CMB +3; CMD 17
Feats Dervish Dance[ISWG], Mounted Combat, Share Healing[ACG], Weapon Finesse
Traits authoritarian, questing hellknight
Skills Acrobatics +4 (+0 to jump), Diplomacy +3, Handle Animal +9, Heal +6, Intimidate +7, Knowledge (planes) +8, Knowledge (religion) +10 (+12 on checks involving your chosen faith), Perception +2, Perform (dance) +1, Ride +14, Sense Motive +8, Survival +0 (+2 while tracking specific animal); Racial Modifiers +2 Perception
Languages Common, Dwarven, Elven, Gnome, Halfling
SQ calling 4/day, exotic mount (bear named Animal Companion), order of the star
Other Gear darkleaf cloth hellknight leather, mithral scimitar, animal call[ACG], backpack, ball (10 in.)[UE], beast whistle (ungulate), bedroll, belt pouch, bit and bridle, carnivore feed (per day) (15), feed (per day) (5), flint and steel, furs[APG], hemp rope (50 ft.), mess kit[UE], military saddle, pot, saddlebags, soap, torch (10), trail rations (5), waterskin, 150 gp
--------------------
Tracked Resources
--------------------
Calling (Ability Check, 1/day) -1 (Ex) - 0/1
Calling (Attack Roll, 1/day) -1 (Ex) - 0/1
Calling (Saving Throw, 1/day) -1 (Ex) - 0/1
Calling (Skill Check, 1/day) -1 (Ex) - 0/1
Carnivore feed (per day) - 0/15
Feed (per day) - 0/5
Mounted Combat (1/round) - 0/1
Questing Hellknight (1/day) - 0/1
Star's Challenge +5 (2/day) (Ex) - 0/2
Tactician (Share Healing, 5 rds, 2/day) (Ex) - 0/2
Torch - 0/10
Trail rations - 0/5
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
Animal Companion Link (Ex) Handle or push Animal Companion faster, +4 to checks vs. them.
Banner +2/+1 (Ex) Allies who can see your banner gain +2 save vs. fear & +1 to hit while charging.
Calling (4/day) This is a dummy ability to consolidate the expanded elements into a single entry in the statblock. We can't do this through the normal channels, because both primary and expanded elements are added to the same table on the class.
Cavalier's Charge (Ex) Mounted charge grants +4 to hit and -0 AC rather than +2/-2.
Dervish Dance Use Dex modifier instead of Str modifier with scimitar
Exotic Mount (Ex) gain access to new companion races and can increase their size.
Fearless +2 racial bonus on all saving throws against fear. This bonus stacks with the bonus granted by halfling luck.
Mounted Combat (1/round) Once per round you can attempt to negate a hit to your mount in combat.
Share Healing You may divide healing evenly between you and adjacent companion.
Star's Challenge +5 (2/day) (Ex) +5 to damage target, -2 AC vs. others when used, +2 to all saves while threatening your target.
Tactician (Share Healing, 5 rds, 2/day) (Ex) Grant the use of your teamwork feats to all allies in 30 ft.
Snow
Bear
N Medium animal
Init +2; Senses low-light vision, scent; Perception +8
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 24, touch 11, flat-footed 23 (+9 armor, +1 Dex, +4 natural)
hp 50 (5d8+10)
Fort +6, Ref +6, Will +2; +4 morale bonus vs. fear and emotion effects.
Defensive Abilities evasion
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 40 ft. (30 ft. in armor)
Melee gauntlet (from armor) +8 (1d3+5) or
unarmed strike +8 (1d3+5 nonlethal) or
bite +8 (1d6+5), 2 claws +8 (1d4+5)
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 20, Dex 14, Con 15, Int 3, Wis 12, Cha 6
Base Atk +3; CMB +8; CMD 20 (24 vs. trip)
Feats Endurance, Heavy Armor Proficiency, Medium Armor Proficiency, Valiant Steed
Tricks Attack, Combat Riding, Come, Defend, Detect, Down, Guard, Heel, Menace
Skills Perception +8, Stealth +0
SQ combat riding, detect, menace
Other Gear full plate
--------------------
Tracked Resources
--------------------
-none-
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
Animal Companion Link (Ex) Handle or push Animal Companion faster, +4 to checks vs. them.
Combat Riding [Trick] The animal has been trained to bear a rider into combat.
Detect [Trick] Indicates unusual smells, noises, etc.
Endurance +4 to a variety of fort saves, skill and ability checks. Sleep in L/M armor with no fatigue.
Evasion (Ex) If succeed on Reflex save for half dam, take none instead.
Low-Light Vision See twice as far as a human in dim light, distinguishing color and detail.
Menace [Trick] Attempts to keep creature from moving.
Scent (Ex) Detect opponents within 15+ feet by sense of smell.
Valiant Steed +4 vs. fear/emotion effects & to push you into unnatural aura. Wounds don't increase push DC.
Igthar Rocknose
Gnome cleric (cloistered cleric) of Abadar 3 (Pathfinder RPG Ultimate Magic 31)
LG Small humanoid (gnome)
Init +1; Senses low-light vision; Perception +10
Aura deflection aura (2 ft.)
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 19, touch 11, flat-footed 19 (+6 armor, +2 shield, +1 size)
hp 30 (3d8+6)
Fort +6, Ref +2, Will +7; +2 vs. symbols, glyphs or writings, +2 vs. illusions
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 20 ft. (15 ft. in armor)
Melee gauntlet (from armor) +0 (1d2-1) or
heavy shield bash -4 (1d3-1) or
unarmed strike +0 (1d2-1 nonlethal)
Special Attacks channel positive energy 4/day (DC 12, 2d6)
Spell-Like Abilities (CL 3rd; concentration +4)
1/day—dancing lights, ghost sound (DC 12), prestidigitation, speak with animals
Cleric (Cloistered Cleric) Spells Prepared (CL 3rd; concentration +6)
2nd—barkskin[D]
1st—shield[D]
D Domain spell; Domain Protection (Defense subdomain)
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 9, Dex 10, Con 14, Int 15, Wis 16, Cha 12
Base Atk +2; CMB +0; CMD 10
Feats Medium Armor Proficiency, Warrior Priest[UM]
Traits eyes and ears of the city, pioneer
Skills Acrobatics -7 (-15 to jump), Bluff +2, Diplomacy +6, Heal +7, Intimidate +4, Knowledge (arcana) +7, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +3, Knowledge (engineering) +3, Knowledge (geography) +7, Knowledge (history) +7, Knowledge (local) +7, Knowledge (nature) +8, Knowledge (nobility) +7, Knowledge (planes) +9, Knowledge (religion) +9, Linguistics +6, Perception +10, Sense Motive +7, Spellcraft +8; Racial Modifiers +2 Perception
Languages Celestial, Common, Dwarven, Elven, Gnome, Halfling, Sylvan
SQ breadth of knowledge, gnome magic, verbal instruction, well-read
Combat Gear wand of cure light wounds; Other Gear lamellar (steel) armor[UC], heavy wooden shield
--------------------
Tracked Resources
--------------------
Cleric Channel Positive Energy 2d6 (4/day, DC 12) (Su) - 0/4
Dancing Lights (1/day) - 0/1
Deflection Aura (3 rounds, 1/day) (Su) - 0/1
Ghost Sound (1/day) - 0/1
Prestidigitation (1/day) - 0/1
Speak with Animals (1/day) - 0/1
Wand of cure light wounds - 0/50
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
Breadth of Knowledge +1 Add + 1 to all knowledge skill checks.
Cleric (Cloistered Cleric) Domain (Defense) Granted Powers: Your faith is your greatest source of protection, and you can use that faith to defend others. In addition, you receive a +1 resistance bonus on saving throws. This bonus increases by 1 for every 5 levels you possess.
Cleric Channel Positive Energy 2d6 (4/day, DC 12) (Su) Positive energy heals the living and harms the undead; negative has the reverse effect.
Deflection Aura (3 rounds, 1/day) (Su) 20'r aura grants +2 AC and +2 CMD
Gnome Magic Add 1 to the DCs of any saving throws to resist illusion spells cast.
Low-Light Vision See twice as far as a human in dim light, distinguishing color and detail.
Verbal Instruction (1 allies) (Ex) Use aid another on one or more allies in 30 ft. Full rd if different tasks.
Warrior Priest +2 on concentration checks when casting defensively or grappling.
Well-Read (Ex) +2 to skills, CL checks, or saves if pertain to glyphs, symbols, or writings.
Filli Stonebeard
Dwarf ranger (nirmathi irregular) 2 (Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Inner Sea Magic)
LG Medium humanoid (dwarf)
Init +4; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Perception +7
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 17, touch 14, flat-footed 13 (+3 armor, +4 Dex)
hp 29 (2d10+9)
Fort +6, Ref +7, Will +2; +2 trait bonus vs. fear and compulsion when acting in service of liege or legitimate leader
Defensive Abilities defensive training
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 20 ft.
Melee unarmed strike +3 (1d3+1 nonlethal)
Ranged ironwood composite longbow +6 (1d8/×3)
Special Attacks combat style (archery), favored enemy (humans +2), hatred
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 13, Dex 18, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 14, Cha 5
Base Atk +2; CMB +3; CMD 17 (21 vs. bull rush, 21 vs. trip)
Feats Point-Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Toughness
Traits authoritarian, questing hellknight
Skills Acrobatics +3 (-1 to jump), Appraise +0 (+2 to assess nonmagical metals or gemstones), Climb +4, Handle Animal +1, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +4, Knowledge (geography) +4, Knowledge (nature) +5, Perception +7 (+9 to notice unusual stonework), Stealth +7, Survival +7, Swim +4; Racial Modifiers forest ghost, +2 Appraise to assess nonmagical metals or gemstones, +2 Perception to notice unusual stonework
Languages Common, Dwarven
SQ track +1
Other Gear hellknight leather, arrows (40), ironwood composite longbow, backpack, bedroll, belt pouch, flint and steel, hemp rope (50 ft.), mess kit[UE], pot, torch (10), trail rations (5), waterskin, 9 gp
--------------------
Tracked Resources
--------------------
Arrows - 0/40
Questing Hellknight (1/day) - 0/1
Torch - 0/10
Trail rations - 0/5
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
Darkvision (60 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white only).
Defensive Training +4 Gain a dodge bonus to AC vs. monsters of the Giant subtype.
Favored Enemy (Humans +2) (Ex) +2 to rolls vs. Favored Enemy (Humans) foes.
Forest Ghost +1 (Ex) Gain +1 bonus on all Perception and Survival skill checks made while in forest terrain.
Greed +2 to Appraise to determine price of nonmagic goods with precious metals or gemstones.
Hatred +1 Gain a racial bonus to attacks vs. Goblinoids/Orcs.
Point-Blank Shot +1 to attack and damage rolls with ranged weapons at up to 30 feet.
Precise Shot You don't get -4 to hit when shooting or throwing into melee.
Stonecunning +2 +2 bonus to Perception vs. unusual stonework. Free check within 10 feet.
Track +1 Add the listed bonus to survival checks made to track.
Killi Stonebeard
Dwarf ranger (nirmathi irregular) 2 (Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Inner Sea Magic)
LG Medium humanoid (dwarf)
Init +0; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Perception +7
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 16, touch 10, flat-footed 16 (+4 armor, +2 shield)
hp 27 (2d10+11)
Fort +7, Ref +3, Will +2; +2 trait bonus vs. fear and compulsion when acting in service of liege or legitimate leader
Defensive Abilities defensive training
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 20 ft.
Melee dwarven waraxe +2 (1d10+4/×3) or
heavy shield bash +2 (1d4+2) or
unarmed strike +6 (1d3+4 nonlethal)
Special Attacks combat style (weapon and shield[APG]), favored enemy (humans +2), hatred, relentless
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 18, Dex 10, Con 16, Int 10, Wis 14, Cha 5
Base Atk +2; CMB +6; CMD 16
Feats Shield Proficiency, Toughness, Two-weapon Fighting
Traits authoritarian, questing hellknight
Skills Acrobatics -4 (-8 to jump), Appraise +0 (+2 to assess nonmagical metals or gemstones), Climb +4, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +4, Knowledge (geography) +4, Knowledge (nature) +4, Perception +7 (+9 to notice unusual stonework), Ride +0, Spellcraft +4, Stealth +0, Survival +7, Swim +4; Racial Modifiers forest ghost, +2 Appraise to assess nonmagical metals or gemstones, +2 Perception to notice unusual stonework
Languages Common, Dwarven
SQ track +1
Other Gear chain shirt, heavy wooden shield, dwarven waraxe, 163 gp
--------------------
Tracked Resources
--------------------
Questing Hellknight (1/day) - 0/1
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
Darkvision (60 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white only).
Defensive Training +4 Gain a dodge bonus to AC vs. monsters of the Giant subtype.
Favored Enemy (Humans +2) (Ex) +2 to rolls vs. Favored Enemy (Humans) foes.
Forest Ghost +1 (Ex) Gain +1 bonus on all Perception and Survival skill checks made while in forest terrain.
Greed +2 to Appraise to determine price of nonmagic goods with precious metals or gemstones.
Hatred +1 Gain a racial bonus to attacks vs. Goblinoids/Orcs.
Relentless +2 Gain CMB bonus to bull rush/overrun while both self and foe stand on ground.
Stonecunning +2 +2 bonus to Perception vs. unusual stonework. Free check within 10 feet.
Track +1 Add the listed bonus to survival checks made to track.
[My level 1 minoins are divided equally havn't stated them out yet, Split between Wizards and Rangers]
Alright crunch is done, NOW ONTO THE FUN STUFF,
FLUFF FOR THE FLUFF GODS, WORDS FOR THE WORD DOCUMENT
Why does my leadership score look so low? Everyone is lawful good, is it cause I don't have all Gnomes???

GM Grog |

There are paladins in the Hellknight Corps, most of them worship Iomeddae but that doesn't fit my character idea at all, which is why I went with Abadar.
I have updated the stat block to look be less minmaxy [sp?]
Str 14, Dex 10, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 9, Char 18.... The 16 Strength that gives me a 14 actual score. I know it was a bit minmax but him being an Oracle makes sense with the story I was weaving for him. I really didn't make anything too broken, unless hellknight is broken??

GM Grog |

It was strange growing up a ward of the church, Abadar could be a sweet god but at the same time he could be just as ruthless as any evil god in the protection of society and claiming land from savages. Axhammer Rocknose was groomed from an early age to bridge a gap, however the Priests were not going to make it easy. Paladins Orders were notoriously human centric, and the Clerics wanted him to attempt to join one of them. To push the idea that Civilization was not just about humans but anyone that wanted to help a city or country grow.
Imagion thier suprise the first time he opened his mouth and spoke a Prophecy about the Priest themselves. They were terrified and sent him away, sent him to a place they thought would break him, or destroy him. Cheliax, home of devil summonners and evil. But it was a society and no matter how much Axhammer tried to help people it never turned out right, until he met the young lad. He bought the slave contract and freed him "After he proved himself." This was allowed in the land as slaves loved hearing about some of them being freed because they did a good enough job. It sicked Axhammer a bit, but it was the only way to free the young halfling, who was mysteriously attached to a bear it seemed. He taught him to the best of his ability about Abadar and the order of the Godclaw, training the Halfling was what eventually got him accepted into the Order of the Godclaw, the other paladins were overly pleased that another paladin was joining thier number. The look on thier faces as it turned out to be a Gnome was to put it lightly heartbreaking, but he attempted to uphold the Writ and Rule as anyone did. When he heard of a new Kingdom being forged, he asked permission to go out and help the struggling kingdom, perhaps they would even allow a Citadel to be built if he did well enough. The higher ups were pleased that they not only could get him out of thier homes, but that he took initative to find a place far away from them where he could in theory do something of worth.
The travel wasn't nice, the Pony didn't like the Bear, and the Bear liked scarying the pony. Along the long road they met up with sevearl Pioneers that were heading that way. The few that stood out he asked to join him, and there were quite a few of the, Arcane viarity that wanted the protection of a large group.
There were pleasant times traveling though, when he saw the Gnome Cleric preaching on the side of the road about the joys of Abadar he had to have him, it made him feel less homesick, as well as helped allaivate the lack of Preist in his motely band. The Priest it seemed was also from clan Rocknose which made it an even more happy occasion and he was endlessly asking about them, where they came from, and home it came to be he was orphaned. It was during one of these long tales that he noticed two dwarves following the group. He of course stopped and asked them what was thier buiness, and low and behold it was Trackering, Hunting, and general woodscraft. Abadar must have been smiling on him that day, as he needed such people to assist him in his holy mission. Taking the two in, he made them welcome and traveled onwards, adventure called, but no so much as the holy mission.
[OOC] So basic biography up about the Main character, do you wish to have one for each character?[ooc]

GM Grog |

the order in which i took the classes was Paladin 1 ,Oracle 1, Paladin 4, Hellknight Commander 1 if that makes a difference?
The origional stat array was an attempt to shore up the problems the character had with hit points as well as lack of skill points, Let me know what you think of the Biography

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Let's say a history of the Main and the Cohort would be nice, to know who they are, what they want, the whole 9 yards.
Remember, the Cohort is like a second character, and will adventure by itself most of the time.
About the followers: As much as you want. If you want to detail them, go for it. If you don't, no problem. The minimum is the number, and the general kind of followers, in a sentence. ("Circus troupe", "Bandit gang", "Polka Music Band", etc)

GM Grog |

I havn't made alaises yet as instructed, so here goes some more information
There are 10 Wizards, and 10 Rangers that are following the group, they are what is to be the Begining of the new Citadel, Citadel Dread Moore. Once the Citadel is created there will of course be a contingent of Hellknight Signifers and Armingers that will show up. These are the beginings of a great citadel that is to be housed within the land.
If you allow I will spend prestige to 'rank up' in the Hellknight order once I reach 12-13 I should be able to take Lictor or the equivalent rank and have a contigent of Hellknights, Sergeants, a Lieutenant, and a Captain[the captain will most likely be my cohort]
The Rangers are divided into 2 different section, Ranged and Melee
The Wizards are divided by the school of preference [10 differant schools]

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Azrael the Avenger:
- I think you are 1 point short on the Point Buy.
- Military Tradition is from an invalid source. What about the Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Bastard Sword) feat instead?
- Veteran of Battle is normally a Gorum trait, but keep it, sounds good with Ragathiel too.
- We will use the Bastard trait drawback for Roleplaying too.
- Celestial Obedience is from an invalid source. You can change it for Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Bastard Sword).
- Anyway you have more feats than the ones you should have (Only 4 - Military Tradition takes one feat away). Without Military Tradition you get your 5 feats back.
- The Blessed story feat is from an invalid source. But sounds great! Keep it.
- The Chosen One archetype is from an invalid source. But I said you can take it...
- We need to talk about your familiar. I think it should be a Mastiff, that has revealed itself to be a Harbinger, to match his god and alignment.
- I would prefer to keep the ioun stones to a minimum. And the cracked ones I think come from an invalid source anyway.
- In the equipment he should have 1 item up to 8,000 gp and 1 up to 4,000, and all the rest 2,000 gp or less. You have 4 items between 4k and 2k. Need to leave only one.
- How did you reach the 98 HP?
- How did you spend your skill ranks?
- I take he has Taldan ethnicity?

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Perun Of The Tiger Lords:
- In the profile Full Name field says "Perud"
- Level is 7
- Is it me or everybody is 1 point short in their abilities point buy?
- What did you do with your favored class bonus? With Nemesis I think you even have 2 of them!
- Without taking favored class into account I got 98 HP
- Cold weather outfit bonus is +5
- Do you really want to use a buckler? It gives you a -1 to attack
- I think you missed the mithral lance in equipment
- Will save I got +5 (trait bonus?)
- CMD got 24 (magic item bonus?)
- What is "Ammendum with Javelins"?
- Why bluff -3?
- Disable device only if trained
- Knowledge (Religion) 0
- Perform 0
- Profesion (Soldier) only if trained. Yes, you lose the trait bonus if it has no ranks
- Sense Motive +1
- Survival +9

thegreenteagamer |

Some of the skill errors are hangovers from a previous character sheet I used as a template.
Bastard gives +1 will. I only have +1 wisdom though, not +2. That was a typo in later instances with skills. Will fix.
Used Favored Class bonus on HP. I made him level 7...somewhere I must've said otherwise, because the BAB and stuff should be.
An ammentum is from I think Ultimate Equipment (don't remember if that was on your allowed list) it's a cord wrapped around a javelin that gives you a spiral when you toss the javelin, increasing it's range, and changing it from a simple weapon to a martial weapon.
You sure about the Cold Weather bonus? I could be mixing up cold with hot...
Yes I want the buckler. Lance can be used 1-handed when mounted (thus no penalty), two-handed when on floor - and -1 attack sometimes for +2 AC (that can get better if I get it up to +2 or +3) all of the time is worth it.