Without a weapon Vayga doesn't threaten and can't AoO if he stands.
Awesome Tremorsense!!!!! Way to go!
Yea, I pulled up the stats for the spider, was going to roll a very unlikely perception for it, and noted it had tremorsense. Then had to go read again how that worked - pin point accuracy within 60'.
Wow! that is amazing luck - Good creature to summon Aria!
There is a decent chance that the enemy by the window (a monk I am pretty sure) will try to go and retrieve the elf body. I really want to prevent that. My thought is that our only really payoff for this fight is the equipment on the elf's body.
Lets see if we can drop the invisible guy this round but since Veyga has to pick up a weapon (either the one I would drop for her or the enemy elf's blade (a move action), she cannot attack both move to an enemy and attack him this round.
So she can do one of the following:
1) Pick up a weapon and move to the invisible guy. (He will be visible soon!)
2) Pick up a weapon and ready to attack an enemy IF one comes close enough (the enemy monk?)
3) Pick up the elf and his weapon and move away from fight, over towards cindy and the crossbowmen.
Thoughts?
Not sure how sportsmanlike that is. It seems like an awful lot of heartache for such a little gain, not to mention I think the player would be upset. I would usually only do such horrible things if they had been done to me first, but I'm not sure what type of game the DM had set up was intended to allow or encourage that.
Not sure how sportsmanlike that is. It seems like an awful lot of heartache for such a little gain, not to mention I think the player would be upset. I would usually only do such horrible things if they had been done to me first, but I'm not sure what type of game the DM had set up was intended to allow or encourage that.
They have our barbarian's weapon (wealth) and they are the ones who extorted our guild. If I died in the inn, they would not say "here is your gear".
The gear is fair game.
If he uses his free res he gets some new gear.
If they recover his corpse they have to manage through that loss of gear on their own somehow.
The real question is having at least some justification for standing over a downed foe from a more RP perspective. I think there are some valid reasons to do so and I'm sure you'll come up with something :).
Its a reasonable concern Aria. Let me tell you how I think about it. Please let me know if you agree or disagree.
Totally out of character I see this as partly a game of resource management. Each team starts with resources and seeks to acquire more to have an edge in future endeavors. If we can acquire more resources than the other three teams we have a leg up on them. The rogues can steel from the local and extort money. We can not. But we can take from the rogues.
I do not want the body. If we had time to loot the body effectively (detect magic to find specific items takes a few rounds) I would prefer to leave it. That way they might spend resources to do a Raise Dead and then the required Restoration to get rid of the negative level from being raised. Thats over 6K of gold. I'd rather them do that than use their free res. But if they have to use up the free res then that is a resource consumed too.
And out of character, PVP fighting is almost the worst thing we can do. Much better to arrange for other teams to fight each other and use resources. This just sort of fell into our laps and overtook us.
But in character, we know this is a group of evil rogues who have extorted a merchant we are sworn to protect. They tool 2000.00 gold from him, which is a lot of money. And then they threatened to torture and kill his family if he did not come up with 2000.00 gold every month. So in character I think we have every reason in the world to take the body with us to make sure its not easy to have the body raised to come back after us.
I would love to be able to parley with these guys. But I could never trust them to do what they say they will do. They are evil rogues after all. After this fight I am confident they will do what they can to hunt us down and kill us in our sleep. How sportsmanlike is that?
True..... let's just say its alarming to know there are people out there like that. Very well, have at. If they've been threatening the lives and well beings of others, I think their gear is fair game.
In character Vayga has a very hard time dealing with thieves of any kind and considers them all "enemy #1" because of her family connections and her job protecting merchant caravans. She isn't quite bright enough to see them as individuals. In her mind they are all thieves, robers, murderers, plunderers etc...
Vayga does not believe that they have any intention of "talking" this out, but that they just want to save themselves to fight another day.
She'd like to get a believable commitment from them but feels we need need leverage to achieve that. Thus she wants to pick up and take the elf with her until AFTER negotiations are finished. Thus giving us a bit of leverage on the negotiation table.
Because she is "good" aligned she really does think we should return their "comrade" to them however, also because of her "good" alignment Vayga does not think it is in the best interest of the city, merchant, caravans, etc. for that elf to be returned with any gear that would help him in his evil ways.
Hi all. Back from a trip and at a real computer again. Hard to post from my phone.
Not sure how long you are going to give Vados to post. He has not posted since Wednesday evening. If he does not most soon I recommend you moving him into the flank with the cat and having him take a single attack (nonlethal) at the enemy. He has plenty of movement to do so.
What are we doing? We have message up and I have no idea what's going in. Are we grabbing the unconscious one for questioning and to barter with? This is my vote. I think the cloud drops next rd and we need to be leaving! Ideas?
Well now I am confused. I guess I need that map. The cloud is still present, correct? I expect it to go away at the end of Cindy's turn. The half orc came out of the north window, so he can't see Vados until after Vados moves, right?NO, he should not be able to see him even after Vados moves. I guess he can seem Vados after he double move though.
Did the person Vados is carrying drop a weapon where he went unconscious? If so Cindy will pick it up on her turn.
I am camping and canoeing with scouts this weekend. Will check back in late Sunday.
Recap of events when we shifted out of strict round by round combat for a moment.
Shiv moves away.
Vayga moves away as the gnome tries to make another attempt at returning her sword in exchange for his companions by walking forward nonthreateningly.
Half-orc is delaying.
Vados picks up the fallen and moves.
Aria/Skyfire move east across the roof.
Cindy follows Vados (presumably still keeping in the air ~15' above?) - stinking cloud disappears.
The NPC's moved, staying abreast of Cindy and Vados.
The half-orc stops delaying and double moves to get to where he is now.
Please keep in mind that Cindy is invisible and was picking up the weapons the man Vados was carrying before moving on - that means she was at ground level. Her flying move is 60 so it should be no problem to keep up. It they are pursued she may have another action. And please let me know what if anything she sees inside that window. Oh, and finally, I could really use an updated map if you have one.
Just a reminder that I am out of town this week and will be doing limited to no posting
Somehow you have missed or forgotten that last round Cindy spoke the the dwarf (monk?) who has never responded, then went invisible, then moved.
Back in town. Also done with overtime at work for a while so should be able to pay more attention to the game now.
Welcome back - I have to go review where we are. Cindy wants to use her current position to try to watch what is going on inside the Inn since the cloud is gone after her current turn, correct?
Yes. The cloud disappeared on the turn you grabbed the weapon. So if you wanted to move towards the inn instead of following Vados you could.
It turns out that, between dialysis and work, I don't have time to keep up my play by posts. I'm going to have to drop out. I'm really sorry, I was enjoying the games a lot.
Sorry to see you go Garion. Did not know about the dialysis. Is that for you? If so, I hope you can recover to where its no longer needed.
Thanks for the heads up Garion.
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Sorry to see you go Garion. Did not know about the dialysis. Is that for you? If so, I hope you can recover to where its no longer needed.
Yep, it's for me. Four and a half hours of dialysis, four days a week. The only recovery is a kidney transplant at this stage. You wouldn't happen to have a spare one lying around? :)
Wow. I hope there is wifi where you have to be to have that. I am an organ donor. I hope more people become one. I had lunch with a friend today that had a liver transplant 6 months ago. As you can imagine, he is quite grateful.
Take care of yourself Garion!
Cindy Lu, would you be willing to post for me while I am out of town this week? I will be back on Saturday.
Is Aria's spider still in play?
The spider, sadly, is sick with the flu.
We tried to take him alive. Look what we get for playing nice. :) Since we are still in combat I say we are forced to now use lethal force on the ninja.
Minor correction, he did vanish as well, I forgot to insert that in from my copy paste of his die roll/speech.
But he is still grappled so we know what square he is in, right?
Correct still grappled. Vados gets to pick which square he wants him to be in that is adjacent to Vados current position.
so I am going to wait on Vados to post I think. Pretty busy today anyway and having to post from my phone.
I am waiting for Vados as well to see if he plans to kill the ninja. If not, I will try.
Possible retcon on the escape artist check not succeeding. Need to double check some rules when I get home.
I was really hoping this was over so we could start some RPing :) GM Ascension did you get my pm?
Two things to consider since this is not just a grapple, but a web binding (like a rope).
1. Escaping ropes and bindings rule: "The DC of your Escape Artist check is equal to the binder’s combat maneuver bonus +20."
2. Action: "Varies. Making an Escape Artist check to escape from rope bindings, manacles, or other restraints (except a grappler) requires 1 minute of work. Escaping from a net or an animate rope, command plants, control plants, or entangle spell is a full-round action." I think the web would be considered "other restraint".
He would have to break the webbing AND the monks grapple (one minute of work plus a standard action)
Either way, you are the GM so I will respect your call. Cheers!
I would rather not kill him. I figured the interrogation would be a fun RP and we have made it clear we are willing to negotiate. We have received very little feedback from them about willingness to negotiate.
If someone wants to double check the numbers I'm showing here feel free.
Enemy is entangled getting -4 to dex.
Enemy has grappled condition for another -4 to dex.
Enemy is invisible for +2 circumstance bonus (this isn't strict RAW based on escape artist), but seems to be intent since attacking while invisible would grant a +2 to attack/grapple rolls, and invisible condition would also grant a +2 to defense against the grapple.
Vados has CMD 22, but he also has the grappled condition for -4 to dex.
And he is carrying a medium loud, making him lose his monk level 4 and monk wisdom bonus to AC/CMD, dropping him to 17 CMD.
The enemy is only escaping from the grapple, a separate check will be needed to escape the webbing, so he retains the entangled condition. (And oh joy for conflicting rules, universal monster rules on web say it is a standard action to attempt to escape from entanglement due to webs - back to more rules research on this.)
Cindy asked about him being prone. I'm going to apply a DC 15 acrobatics check for him to land on his feet, based on similar rules for missing a jump acrobatics check to avoid taking damage for the first 10' of height, though in this case he doesn't take damage even if he does fall prone.
I was really hoping this was over so we could start some RPing :) GM Ascension did you get my pm?
I hear you on that. I think we are something like round 13 now - this is a very long running battle - and twice now I thought it was going to come to an end. With more guards arriving though it really should end very soon in one fashion or another.
And I did get your PM, but haven't had a chance to go through the details yet.
Roger!
I am working in Seattle this week (and part of next week) and am super busy. I do not have access to all my books and such and have not had time to research this BUT it looks like you have not taken into consideration that Vados has Improved Grapple which adds +4 to his CMD for grapples.
Imp Grapple is +2 to make a grapple and +2 to avoid being grappled.
I am working in Seattle this week (and part of next week) and am super busy. I do not have access to all my books and such and have not had time to research this BUT it looks like you have not taken into consideration that Vados has Improved Grapple which adds +4 to his CMD for grapples.
Been thinking about this further. In the same way that I gave a +2 to escape artist for being invisible to to break free, I can't really justify imp grapple not applying itst +2 to all things grapple related, either to make a grapple, avoid a grapple, or prevent an escape from a grapple. That puts Vados final CMD at 19 and a failed escape. Back to square one.
Apologies for all the back and forth on this. Any player vs npc fight it wouldn't be an issue - but with both yours and other players characters at stake I really want to make sure things are as fair as possible. So Vados still has a hold of him. He is invisible, but being held at T65.
I appreciate you thoughtful and complete treatment of the action. Grapple was very complicated under 3.5 and remains so under Pathfinder. I wanted to dig through all the rules but never found the time to do so. Back to work - Will try to post my action tonight.
I will post my action after Cindy Lu. I would like to knock the Ninja unconscious, but not kill him. I would like to interrogate him (not torture). I think it would be some great RPing. We may have to kill him if they keep this foolishness up.
I am fine with either ruling. I do not envy you having to make calls like this. You have proven you are fair!
GM Ascension, can you catch me up? Is the glitterdust still active? What is Vayga's status? Has she hidden the body she was carrying or does she still have it? Do you mind if I take Vayga's turn? And about our cleric? Has he acted, or could I call our instructions for him?
Is the person we're trying to grapple small? Or medium-sized?
Glitterdust is over.
Vayga hasn't hidden the body, she could throw it in the stables, but it would be visible to anyone passing through the stables - and the summoner/grappled person would likely see her doing so. I'm not sure if she is still fatigued from raging, I need to go back and count rounds, but she probably has a couple fatigue rounds left.
The person Vados is grappling is medium.