I must be blind... Marco do you have a list of items?
Headband+2 wisdom
Quick runner's shirt
1k gp
The sword mentioned is a class feature I can make a blade with my mind
The dm has allowed me to reflavor this as being my bones extended all wolverine/marrow/spyke style
Well, I can never go to sleep again it seems.
Also, I've got a list of items on my mythweavers character sheet.
I'll try to catch up later today.
Marrow was always a favorite of mine :)
So... uhm.. do you eat? Trail Rations and such?
I can spend one power point at the start of the day to not have to worry about food or water
I have 3 weeks of trail rations in my pack.
Once you all get acquainted and semi together I'll go ahead and move us on to the exciting bit. What you all have to decide is whether to tackle the secondary entrance or the primary entrance to the dungeon itself. You should be well within the power range to deal with either, so don't think you're committing suicide by picking one over the other.
On this note, just to plan now because I don't know quite how much time I'll have later- I can use clairvoyant sense to take a good look at the entrance of each area, and then we decide which one we can tackle first. Sending in my psicrystal invisibly (for a total of +38 to stealth) to examine each one is also an option.
Wow, traveling light, eh Marco? You've got a 26 pound light load, which we could fill with gear of some variety.
We did have just 5k to start with, right? A headband of wisdom +2 is 4k, and a quick runner's shirt is 1k, which would put you fresh out of gold if I'm not mistaken.
Adding 21 units of trail rations, we end up with 91. Divided over just four people, since Marco doesn't need to eat, results in 22 3/4 days' worth. The limit, however, is still going to be our animals.
In other news, I've got a shopping list.
Acid flask x3, 30 gp, 3 lbs - as an alchemist I can add my int to the damage and splash damage
Antitoxin x3, 150 gp, negligible - not sure how many to get, fairly expensive
Traveling spellbook and 80 gp of backup spells, 90 gp, 1 lb
Twitch tonic, 45 gp, negligible - paralysis sucks, I don't want to stand around for a few hours waiting for someone to thaw out
Folding boat - I'm confused about if we have this yet or not. I think it'd cost 150 gp and I don't know how much it'd weigh or how many people it could fit.
Dagger, 2 gp, 1 lb - I don't have one yet
Sling, free, negligible - free, negligible
Light crossbow and 20 bolts, 37 gp, 6 lbs - not sure if this is worth it. I've got bombs and if I'm using this the fight's hopefully already over. Could be three more acid flasks or most of another antitoxin or first level potion
Suggestions? If I buy all of those things it'll cost me 264 + boat gp. I currently have 479 gp.
Oh I thought it was 6k.
And I would like to eat if I can, save me that power point (and thus effectively +2 hp or +4 to a save once)
I just don't have to eat
Well if you'd like to eat then you should bring along some rations. Since it came up, aren't we limited to spending max 2500 on a single catagory of item as well?
@Maglin
Maybe Antiplague to go along with the abtitoxin? Might even just trade one for the other
Book of Puzzles is 50gp, bonus to Disable Device but not sure you need it
Holy Weapon Balm and Water
If you do go with crossbow then grab Durable Bolts. I don't think this is a bad idea. We haven't gotten deep into combat strategy yet, but if we have 5 rounds of combat I think that wipes your best spells clean at this point.
Boats
By my count Simon has put 50 Gold towards the boat. A Jolly Boat (Rowboat Variant) can fit up to 10 people. This should serve our party of 6/animals just fine, especially with squeezing rules.
Jolly Boat
- 50 GP Boat
- 50 GP Portable/Folding
- 50 GP Optional Masterwork
I purchased some ear plugs, a journal, pen and ink. I'm close to running out of gold, but I'm happy to throw what I have left toward the boat.
@Maglin - not now of course, but any plans to take Craft Wondrous Items?
Vuzi! For your abilities, how long do you control the undead? Minutes/hours/days/until they fall?
Alright, I've got some important questions about spells.
Say I target someone with at least sentient intelegence (so we're ruling out common animals, vermin, an ooze, etc) with one of my various mind effecting tricks.
I've got four things I'm concerned about:
I have questions.
Say I use one of these abilities and the enemy makes their save. Are they aware that someone tried to mess with their head? More specifically, are they aware that it was specifically me that messed with their head, even if they didn't see me casting/ manifesting the power (assuming the power manifests in such a way that there is any sign that I did anything- psionics is something of a mixed bag in that regard).
Now say they fail the save, and the spell/power fades away after it's duration. Are they aware that they were being mentally influenced, or do they justify some reason why they preformed an otherwise unusual action (befriending an adventure who wandered into their dungeon, stabbing a fellow monster in the chest without any provocation, etc). Are they aware that someone messed with their head using magic afterwords? And most importantly- are they aware that it was specifically me that caused them to act so strangely.
Okay, I can put down like 100gp on the boat. I don't know how necessary anti plague, but it seems like the sort of thing you need in higher numbers. Seems like disease is more likely to affect a large number of people. Maybe like one or two in case some monster has a disease attack.
Yes, I was planning on taking craft wondrous items as my level five bonus feat.
Also I can say that in the real world humans definitively do have machinery which exists to explain what they're doing. That is, we are capable of making up a reason for having done something and then believing it. This is most famous in split brain patients, but there are other examples.
Cool. In theory someone has or will have taken 100 Gold from Maglin and 50 Gold from Blue and purchased a well made Mwk Collapsable Jolly Row boat of indeterminate weight which in theory can be broken down and split up between multiple people.
We do have a sailor in our midst. Should it come up in game, I'd push to have her in charge of boating related matters.
Vuzi! For your abilities, how long do you control the undead? Minutes/hours/days/until they fall?
Raise the Dead: 1 per day, 4 HD for 5 rounds currently.
Undead Servitude: 8 times a day. Command Undead You can control any number of undead, so long as their total Hit Dice do not exceed your cleric level.
Something important I just realized- we might be unfortunate enough to encounter ability damage. And that's something we want to avoid. Luckily, the order of the gate has enslaved some Paladins who make wands for all eternity, and lesser restoration is a first level spell for Paladins. I could swap out one of my wands for it if nobody wants to/ can get it as a spell or extract.
I would like to keep my wand of veil of positive energy, but curing ability damage is more important.
Also, I've got 24 gold that I'm not using, so if we need a bit more for the boat or something I can chip in. I would advise keeping some money in reserve on the chance that something drastic happens and we need some money to fall back on.
For that matter, I could pick up lesser restoration as a 2nd level extract in place of foxes cunning, but I do think foxes cunning is pretty beefy.
Both Maglin and I are only limited by our spell lists really. After our first trip with just a small influx of gold I can add delay poison/disease, lesser restoration, etc
I just feel that having some way to cure ability score damage would be good to have before entering the dungeon proper at all.
How much does it cost for you to memorize a second level extract? I've got an item worth 80 gold I can easily sell if it lets you pick up that extract.
Lesser restoration is a second level alchemist spell, so DW has access to it.
It's also a second level oracle spell, so Vuzi also has access to it.
It costs 40 gp to add it to the formulae book, but DW can only prep two second level extracts in a day, and I don't know how many he plans to leave open as contingency.
As a sidenote, if I drink my cognatogen and get hit with fox's cunning, I end up with an int of 28. I have no idea how I would even begin to RP that.
How much carrying capacity does everyone have left? I've listed what I think is correct below:
Ignatzia has a bag of holding and a masterwork backpack. The masterwork backpack gives her a light load of 30 and a medium load of 60. The bag of holding weighs three can carry an extra fifty pounds of material. She is currently carrying ninety pounds of stuff, and from the looks of things plans to walk around with a medium load. This means she can carry twenty more pounds of stuff.
I have no idea how heavy Vuzi's stuff is and don't feel like adding it all up. She's got a handy haversack and a strength score of 13, so I bet she could carry a few more pounds of stuff.
I also don't know how much Simon is carrying. He's got a strength score of eleven, but Emily has a 14 and four legs, so she can probably carry a lot.
Marco has a light load of 26 lbs and is carrying...nothing that weighs anything.
DW has a strength of 14 and muleback cords. He can carry 173 lbs as a light load. He is currently carrying 152.3 lbs, so he's got an extra 20.7 lbs. He also has a large quadrupedal mount with a strength score of 21. That creature can carry 459 lbs as a light load and 918 lbs as a medium load. If DW carries 173 lbs and gets on his mount, it will be carrying 537.7 lbs, giving it another 381.3 lbs to get to a medium load.
If DM Choon rules that L'nshpahd can equip muleback cords, it ends up with a medium load of 2799. And at that point we get into firewood territory.
60 Gold Per 2nd Level. Right now I can do 2 2nd levels a day. I'm planning to dedicate 1 to a free use of heroism, but the other is left open. It only takes 1 minute to make one, so there's little harm in doing so. I figured I'd flex that around Invisibility and Fox's cunning as well, but I can drop Fox's Cunning for now and pick it up later?
As for gold, I have 170 left but I'm hoping to use that as a budgey to create alchemical items as we go. For example in a week I should be able to make an Anti Toxin, 2x Holy Weapon Balm, and a vial of Acid for 40 gold instead of the 120 it would cost otherwise.
That's not my current planned craft list btw, just an example of options. For the most part, I seem to be able to make any alch items in 2 days on a bad roll, and in 1 day on a good roll, so long as I have the gold available
I'm very malleable to party needs in this regard, so please let me know what I can do
Lesser restoration is a second level alchemist spell, so DW has access to it.
...
It costs 40 gp to add it to the formulae book, but DW can only prep two second level extracts in a day, and I don't know how many he plans to leave open as contingency.
...
If DM Choon rules that L'nshpahd can equip muleback cords, it ends up with a medium load of 2799. And at that point we get into firewood territory.
1 open for now, next level 2 open
40gp each? I priced it at 60 with the customary tip to wizard for copying from spell book (half the price of adding it) if it's only 40, I'll add it now for free, since I added 2 at 60
L'nshpad has shoulder slots. I planned to transfer them over as soon as I could afford a bag of holding. Before you get too excited though there is a liability. L'nshpad has 13 hit points. I don't plan to use him in combat, but if he falls then we're carrying everything by hand. In the mean time though I need the cords to keep my load light. I've got quite a bit on me that I'm keeping there in case I get seperated from L'nshpad.
I can take Lesser Restoration at my next level up.
I've been pricing spells at the straight copying cost. I think that makes more sense for Maglin, since his spells would've been copied at university. His formulae book is probably a different story. Recalculating costs, it looks like my formulae book should've cost 90 instead of 40, I think I forgot to add in the cost of copying spells directly from my spellbook.
I'd also be happy to pay the extra price on spells in the book if the GM wants me to. That'd take me from 429 to 229, and I'd reconsider the necessity of all the spells being in there.
Are you planning on riding L'nshpad in combat at all? If not, I think we'll be fine having him carry everything and if he dies we can just transfer most of it anyway. Not actually 100% on how well that'd work, but if we were carrying stuff like firewood it'd be fine. Our plans for a warm campfire would go up in smoke, but it wouldn't exactly be a trail of tears.
Wait a second...
I just did a bit of reading about what alignment means in pathfinder, I'm a bit confused as to how to define Maglin.
I don't think he cares much about morality in a cosmic sense. Like, he'd murder people or do all sorts of other terrible stuff and not think twice if he wanted to, he just doesn't want to. Mostly the things he wants are things that benefit society, particularly when they also benefit him. Any idea what that qualifies as? Maybe it's neutral? I think it's just human, to be honest, but I don't really know.
In other news, he's not actually as comfortable with undead as he says he is. But he also doesn't have much of an opinion yet, since his experience is limited.
Not really. L'nshpad was originally going to be a donkey, but now he has a 30ft climb speed if I'm riding him, and 40ft movement otherwise. My hope is that between the climb and movement he'll be able to stay out of the was and can be ridden as needed in either escaping or climbing
Under Replacing and Duplicating Spells
"Duplicating an existing spellbook uses the same procedure as replacing it, but the task is much easier. The time requirement and cost per page are halved."
Level 0 spells 2.5 GP to duplicate
Level 1 spells 5 GP to duplicate
Level 2 spells 20 GP to duplicate
If Choon says we don't need to pay the tip cost though, I'd be happy to pick up Lesser Restoration now. Or if the party thinks it's be better served the Fox's cunning at the moment
I don't think I really need fox's cunning to be available, since I already have a cognatogen which does such a similar thing.
Thanks for the note about that, should save me 15 gold and potentially more if I get a backup book.
From what I've seen of Maglin so far, he strikes me as Lawful Nuetral. Theres a few tests you can take online for it, but Maglin seems to care more about structure then whether or not it's good. Inside a system one can thrive regardless of whether the hierarchy says slaves are legal or not. Sure he may have a preference one way or the other, but when in Rome... as long as their is in fact a Rome. A warlord who has a set of codes that may be over the top is unfortunate but can be reasoned with. An official who may be more lenient but shows favoritism and changes the law day to day at his whim is the true barbarian.
To that end, alignment often plays into deity. In 2.0 we called them Ethos, but here you can worship one or two domains instead of Gods. Perhaps the Domain Magic (Arcana), Knowledge (Education), or Travel Domains might appeal to Maglin.
Maglin's not actually very interested in learning magic. He does it, he's good at it, he enjoys it, but he doesn't want to do more than dabble.
He might still be lawful neutral though, that makes sense to me on some level. Is there a Domain Reasonable (No Strings)?
Lawful without a subdomain would work. Someone who seeks out order in all things
Lawful subdomain
Archon
Devil
Inevitable
Judgment
Kyton
Legislation
Loyalty
Slavery
Tyranny
Wizards Official Character Alignment test
Edit: Something I bring up in my games is the fanatic factor. Most followers of Pharasma only worship on her holy days, but few preach daily. It wouldn't be out of line for a non religious class to only have a casual idea of worship
I don't think Maglin seeks order in all things.
In the end, he's just going to do what he wants. The lawful aspects would be based around the fact that humans want to do things that facilitate working together in a group.
Also he's technically an elf, but I have no idea what that means and am not going to look too deeply into it.
Looking into the wizards alignment test, I'm drawn to this statement:
What Alignment Means
Alignment is central to a D&D character's personality. D&D uses two measures to determine a specific character's ethical and moral attitudes and behavior.
The moral axis has three positions: good, neutral and evil. Good characters generally care about the welfare of others. Neutral people generally care about their own welfare. Evil people generally seek to harm the others' welfare.
The ethical axis has three positions as well: lawful, neutral, and chaotic. Lawful people generally follow the social rules as they understand them. Neutral people follow those rules find convenient or obviously necessary. And chaotic people seek to upset the social order and either institute change, or simply create anarchy.
Maglin generally cares about his own welfare. He usually does things that will benefit other people because he assumes they will benefit him, but rarely actually makes that calculation. He might tip a homeless man because of the feeling that it benefits him despite knowing that it does not.
He will follow the social rules that are convenient and necessary. He will probably err more on the side of following rules than not, but only because that's what's easiest. He doesn't have a problem violating them.
So I guess my qualitative assessment is that he's true neutral with leanings towards lawful and good.
Taking the test, I ended up with Lawful Neutral.
And now I'm interested in what a real personality test would say about Maglin. I bet in a week or two I'll be much better equipped to do that, so I'll just wait a week or two and then uh...do that.
Also I don't understand religion in pathfinder at all. And I don't particularly want to.
Well if you don't want to than f*@* it, your not a deity based class so it doesn't really matter, and sounds like it doesn't for Maglin either
Yeah, sorry if you did a lot of work and then I devalued that. And also didn't take your suggestions.
I appreciate what you said, and I don't think I would've thought twice about the lawful neutral result of the test I wouldn't've taken if you hadn't've provided that link if you hadn't said that was your impression so far. Basically what I'm trying to say is thanks for talking about Maglin a bit, he's an extension of me so I like talking about him. And also sorry if I came across as a bastard.
Edit: can someone explain to me how undead work? Like, what is it like for the corpse and soul that used to inhabit it? I'll be checking some wikis but I seem to remember trying to understand this in the past and failing.
Nah man I didn't do any work haha. I'm pretty casual but what I was trying to say is that not everyone on Galorian (probably misspelled that but essentially "earth" in Pathfinder) is the religious type or heavy into worship, so Maglin's approach could easilly be 'f!%& it' and I was trying to assure you not to sweat it.
The deific obedience feats are good enough that I generally make basically all of my characters find religion eventually
To balance their flexibility, I tend to rule that all psionic manifestations are traceable to the caster. So unless you make the effort to supress them everyone's gonna know.
If someone fails a mind effecting, they know it happened. If you suoress the display they won't know who did it.
If they succeed and you didn't do anything drastic in the area you'll be fine. If they come to with allies dead and blood on their sword tough they might connect the dots.
In other comments, nice pace, guys! You'll be ready to move out out soon!
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Oh, boy, undead. I couldn't answer this properly earlier. I know you didn't ask for how religion works but it kinda plays into it. A brief magic primer.
Gods exist. Whether or not any given person has experienced it, Gods are tangible in Pathfinder. There is a chicken and egg debate amongst scholars over which plane came first and whether or not the gods made the planes or the planes made the gods. There are a lot of god wars and such too, as well as 'old ones' (think Eros and Gaia vs Zeus and Hera). One may ascend into Godhood.
Magic Exists. Magic is the practice of harnessing energy from the other planes and applying them to another. Most commonly from our perspective this is to the Material Plane. There are a few ways to do this.
Arcane. Practiced Mortals have found ways to access the power of other planes. Be it Wizards through the various spell schools (a science that dates back to 2.0 I believe, where the schools were as conflicted as good and evil) or Alchemists putting a portion of magic into their creations.
Divine. Or Transitive Arcane. Oracles, Paladins, Clerics and Rangers have taken favor with a god or domain (which may be ruled by many gods) for the work they've done. When they 'prepare' spells, they make a request to a god/domain who grants them their powers. This is just about the equivalent of handing them potions. Even divine spells are of differing schools of magic. Should one of these fall off the path then their god/domain may reject them and no longer grant them their boons.
Consumate Undead are mortals who have (usually) actively participated in becoming undead, usually motivated by power or long life. Liches and Vampires and the like. Their souls never left their body, or were willingly placed elsewhere by themselves.
Hungry Undead are mortals who's souls left them in death, but returned after being prevented from going to the afterlife. They have souls and usually some level of intelligence. Some have quite a bit of intelligence. Per bestiary these are Ghouls, but essentially they are free willed zombies.
Incorporeal Undead are ghosts. These are the souls of dead mortals who break through planar barriers and are able to touch the Material. In 'death' they are returned back to where they are.
Mindless Undead have no souls. They are a collection of once living tissue and are just a pile of gears and legos which are animated by pure Negative Energy of the void, commanded by those who have studied Necromancy themselves or given the boons to do so by a powerful being (gods) who can.
Bringing someone back to life is almost identical but completely different. When an appropriate spell to bring someone back to life is cast, the soul of that body is contacted on the appropriate plane and is requested/offered to return. The soul may refuse and the spell has no effect. That choice/willingness vs being forced back is the difference between being resurrected vs raised as undead.
GM Rulings needed from The Choon
1-A Can we buy a *Masterwork* Collapsible Boat?
1-B If so, the Jolly Boat variant of a Row Boat works for us as a group. The price is 50 Gold for standard. 50 Gold as set by you for being collapsible. 50 Gold assumed for Masterwork Tool. Is the price of 150 Gold total correct to you?
1-C Afraid to ask... but there is no weight listed for a Rowboat. I assume a collapsible boat has weight that can be split between ourselves.. but do you have a total weight in mind or is this a freebie?
2 Adding spells to our spell book have an associated cost (for example, lvl 2 spell is 40 Gold). Afterwards, it states a wizard customarily charges half that cost for the right to add the spell (Lvl 2 40gp base + 20gp tip = 60gp total) but no where does it say it is required. In fact duplicating our own spells is only half the cost of copying another. Although I'm sure this could change from NPC to NPC in the future, for extra starting spells in spell list do we need to pay the base cost, or base cost + tip? If it's not obvious enough, funds are tight :D
3 Personally related to me; Is this Archtype approved? It stacks with my current, but this is the one that does not appear on the PFSRD but is from a Paizo book. The comments section call out this archtype specifically which adds to it's existance
Hmmm, how similar is Ork and Goblin language?^^
Is it like ... France and Italian ... So you can understand some words from the other language, enough to get the meaning or just gibberish?
1a) Yes, but not in twin right now. One of you would have to lug it in. If that's not possible, then you can order one and have it in a few months when the guy running the town store makes his next run to the big cities.
1b) sure
1c)*snicker* a free row boat. Good try. I'll be nice and say 60 lbs dividable into 5 sections of 12 pounds each.
2) spells added before the adventure are at full price. However, from here in out tidal may coordinate spell/formula books as you wish.
3) that archetype is approved.
1c well I tried haha
2 sorry... you mean base price for 40 each or 60 each (with with customary but not strictly required tip) for level 2 spells? I wanna make sure I'm following the rules
3 thank you, will update when I wake up
60.
To balance their flexibility, I tend to rule that all psionic manifestations are traceable to the caster. So unless you make the effort to supress them everyone's gonna know.
If someone fails a mind effecting, they know it happened. If you suoress the display they won't know who did it.
If they succeed and you didn't do anything drastic in the area you'll be fine. If they come to with allies dead and blood on their sword tough they might connect the dots.
Hm... I'm just really wondering if mind reading is worth it then. If creatures know when failed against a mental intrusion even if I supress the manifesting effects or otherwise don't initially manifest the power around them, then there's no way I can use that spell subtly at all. It takes the fun out of reading someone's thoughts if they know they are reading thoughts.
Maybe I'll swap that out for compelling voice, then. Seems to pack more of a punch than read thoughts. This warrents more consideration.
I totally understand the more drastic stuff being a give away to mind control. But what about little stuff- say, encouraging a monster to go and walk over somewhere out of our own path, that it theoretically could have done on it's own without any mental prodding?
Also, choon, any thoughts on the mission Ignatzia has? Depending on what it is, she might be comfortable telling the group- or it could be a really bad idea. I figure that if it was a good idea, she'd rather bring it up sooner than later.
Your mission, if you choose to accept it, is to discover the fate off the mighty army of good that originally chased after the god Orcus and his cult. Order divination have increasingly referenced or hinted at that army and it's fate being bad for the civilized world, so they are sending you to discover what you can.
Edit: Something I bring up in my games is the fanatic factor. Most followers of Pharasma only worship on her holy days, but few preach daily. It wouldn't be out of line for a non religious class to only have a casual idea of worship
I took the test for Vuzi and I nailed it Neutral alignment. I'm bookmarking that for future reference.
@DW cool and thanks. Wanted to make sure all's good between us since it's the internet.
The post about the undead is helpful, I already knew some of that stuff but there were gaps which are now filled in.
And now I gotta check my spells again and take a look at if I really need all of them. To be honest, that'll probably happen tonight.
Your mission, if you choose to accept it, is to discover the fate off the mighty army of good that originally chased after the god Orcus and his cult. Order divination have increasingly referenced or hinted at that army and it's fate being bad for the civilized world, so they are sending you to discover what you can.
Alright. I assume the army was last seen entering Rappan Athuk before vanishing, right?
Also, do I have any intel about the army- how long ago it entered the dungeon, who was leading it, anything at all I could concievably know/ what my order would have told me.
Please forgive the copy pasta:
Many hundreds of years ago, the forces of good allied to destroy
the main Temple of Orcus in the ancient city of Tsar. With their
temple in ruins, the surviving high priests of this accursed demon-
god fled the city with an army of enemies on their trail—an army
of heroic fighters, clerics and paladins—led by Zelkor, a powerful
wizard. The exact fate of these evil priests was then unknown, for
not only did the remnants of the followers of Orcus disappear from
all human reckoning, but so did the army of light that followed after
them disappear as well. Some said that in the eternal scales the loss
of so many good men was a fair price to pay to rid the world of so
much evil.
Many years later, peaceful creatures
of the Wood of Hopebegan to disappear. Though many rangers and
druids investigated these happenings, the cause of the creatures’
disappearance was not immediately determined. Some years later a
powerful group of adventurers, led by Bofred, a high priest of Sarenrae,
investigated the evil happenings and found a sunken graveyard
leading to a labyrinthine complex. Bofred and his companions
found great hordes of evil creatures in the complex. Though some
of his companions returned from their expedition, telling tales of
fantastic treasure and ferocious monsters, Bofred was never seen
again—lost in the catacombs beneath the cursed mausoleum.
For the last one hundred years, ranks of adventurers have ventured
to the newfound dungeon. Many fell prey to bandits and monsters
in the surrounding wilderness. Rumors suggest that of those who
survived to reach the mausoleum and sunken graveyard, most were
slain by guardians of green stone or perished on the very first level.
Those rare few who return from deeper treks speak of horrible
undead and creatures that cannot be slain. All who have explored
Rappan Athuk offer this one universal piece of advice: “Don’t go
down the Well.”