Ok. That sounds simple enough. Are we rolling before we declare our characters?
You can roll, before, after, or in between.
Real quick, on phone, but I houserule that everyone gets weapon finesse for free. Treat it as a property of the weapons that are finessable as opposed to a bonus feat of the character.
Sweet! Weapon finesse :D
Rolling. Here's hoping i've got luck.
= 12
= 11
= 9
= 8
= 10
= 15
well, that's s&&%ty. A total of +1 modifier. Rerolling.
= 16
= 5
= 14
= 9
= 14
= 15
I will stick with that if I need to. That 5 is gonna be somewhat...ridiculous XD
rofl - a 5! HA!
ooooh man... too funny!
Let's give it a shot, shall we?
Nice!
= 13
= 12
= 8
= 10
= 15
= 9
Cute. A total of +4 Let's try this again, right?
= 11
= 18
= 14
= 10
= 9
= 13
Aw Yis. I'll even apply those to stats right now.
Str = 11
Con = 10
Dex = 18
Int = 14
Wis = 13
Cha = 9
Also, yes, that 5 is going to be ridiculous. Please, I beg of you, throw it in intelligence. please.
Ok, with that, I think I'm leaning toward my magus idea, though maybe less theify and a little more scouty.
I'm thinking an elven kensai, with those 16's in dex and int, then by the time level 7 or 8 rolls around we'll see if the course of the campaign still has him steering toward shadowdancer. Maybe he's a little brash, a little over confident, and a little spoiled - but maybe that will change after he signs on with the local Pathfinder lodge.
I'm thinking Alabaster Outcast might be the way to go for this guy's roots - and I think his adventures might change him from a cocky spoiled rich so-and-so into a level headed guy who cares about helping whomever he might.
Yeah... that's sounding pretty good.
13
8
11
13
9
13
Did I do it right with the rolls that I got?
you did indeed, but since your net modifier adds up to just a +2, you can reroll if you'd like.
I think I'm a little bit too pumped for this game. All of you guys post like madmen, so we're going to cover a lot of ground really, really quick.
That said I've decided entirely on my rogue, :3.
Much better rolls
9
18
12
14
7
11
I think that I will go with an elven wizard with a speciality in enchantment/
Str: 7
DEX: 11+2 13
CON:12-2 10
WIS:9
INT:18+2 20
CHA: 14
I really need a re-roll. My character won't work with that ability score set, and I'm still eligible for one... That last roll set was a net +3, and a 10 point buy.
= 4
= 11
= 10
= 12
= 10
= 15
what the actual f$*+. That's a net...+0 ability score bonus. What is my luck.
= 12
= 14
= 11
= 15
= 11
= 16
OH MY GOD FINALLY one that isn't disqualified.
May I please use this set?
I do realize that I re-rolled a lot, but I also rolled a 5 and a 4, and I really wanted to play a character that wasn't crippled in some way or another.
Shalafi, I don't see your second rolls. I see the results, but not the actual rolls themselves. Did you accidently erase them. If so, if you edit them back in before the hour is up they will appear and be the same.
Otherwise I'm sorry, but I can't accept non rolls. What you have with the non-visible rolls, is actually a 20 pt buy, +4 total modifier. Those would need to be rerolled anyways. Even if they were point buy, I don't allow 7's before racial mods.
And Aardvark, which set should I use?
Leinathan, with the 5, this set is a net +5 modifier
4d6 ⇒ (5, 5, 1, 6) = 17 = 16 +3
4d6 ⇒ (2, 1, 1, 2) = 6 = 5 -3
4d6 ⇒ (6, 5, 1, 3) = 15 = 14 +2
4d6 ⇒ (1, 1, 3, 5) = 10 = 9 -1
4d6 ⇒ (6, 4, 4, 2) = 16 = 14 +2
4d6 ⇒ (6, 3, 6, 1) = 16 = 15 +2
16 = 10 pts
5 = -9 pts? (9 1pt, 8 1pt, 7 2pt, 6 2pt, 5 3pt)
14 = 5 pts
9 = -1 pt
14 = 5 pts
15 = 7 pts
That would be a 17 pt buy. I hate to be a stickler, but even if the 5 was equal to a -12 it would still be valid (no less than 15 pt buy or total +5 modifier). I hate to say it, but these are the risks inherent in accepting to make the rolls.
Using 4d6 drop lowest, can still net a 3 in a score.
With that being said, I haven't used my roll rules in a long time, and forgot that I have you roll 7 times and take the top 6 scores.
So everyone roll 1 more score and replace your lowest if it is higher than it.
I thought a 5 was bad, but then you went and landed a FOUR! LOL! Too funny! Incredible odds. Just incredible.
woop!
= 9
I'll just replace the 5 in there with this roll, then, eh?
So my score set is:
16
15
14
14
9
9
Right? I can work with this. Easily.
Oh, and Duboris, you miscalculated one score. You have a 13-2 as a 10. Your Con should be an 11.
I was so terrified you were going to roll 4 1's.
And here's my magus - Faedrin Lantherion.
Still need to go shopping and fill in his background and what not, but most of the mathy stuff is done.
I love you.
4d6 ⇒ (2, 5, 4, 2) = 13 = 11
4d6 ⇒ (6, 6, 6, 4) = 22 = 18
4d6 ⇒ (3, 6, 3, 5) = 17 = 14
4d6 ⇒ (3, 2, 5, 3) = 13 = 11
4d6 ⇒ (2, 2, 3, 4) = 11 = 9
4d6 ⇒ (2, 4, 3, 6) = 15 = 13
So that's also a...
4d6 ⇒ (5, 2, 6, 5) = 18 = 16
So in descending order...
18 - Dex + 2 Human Racial Mod = 20
16 - Int
14 - Wis
13 - Str
11 - Con
11 - Cha
With weapon finesse and skill focus(stealth) as a Knife Master. Aw Yis.
"Oo"
Male Human Rogue 1
N Medium Humanoid (human)
Init +5; Senses Perception +6
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 17, touch 15, flat-footed 12 (+2 armor, +5 Dex)
hp 8 (1d8)
Fort +0, Ref +7, Will +2
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 30 ft.
Melee Dagger +5 (1d4+1/19-20/x2) and
. . Dagger +5 (1d4+1/19-20/x2) and
. . Gladius +5 (1d6+1/19-20/x2) and
. . Sap +5 (1d6+1/x2) and
. . Unarmed strike +5 (1d3+1/x2)
Special Attacks sneak attack +1d6
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 13, Dex 20, Con 11, Int 16, Wis 14, Cha 11
Base Atk +0; CMB +1; CMD 16
Feats Skill Focus (Stealth), Two-weapon Fighting, Weapon Finesse
Traits Ruin Raider, Stealthy Escape
Skills Acrobatics +9, Appraise +8, Bluff +4, Climb +5, Craft (alchemy) +7, Disable Device +12, Escape Artist +9, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +7, Knowledge (local) +7, Perception +6 (+7 to locate traps), Sense Motive +6, Stealth +12, Use Magic Device +4
Languages Common, Elven, Thassilonian, Varisian
SQ trapfinding +1
Other Gear Leather armor, Dagger, Dagger (4), Gladius, Sap, Bedroll, Blanket, Thieves' tools, masterwork, Wrist sheath (empty) (2), 14 SP
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
Ruin Raider +4 Perception to distinguish statue-like creatures.
Sneak Attack +1d6 +1d6 damage if you flank your target or your target is flat-footed.
Trapfinding +1 Gain a bonus to find or disable traps, including magical ones.
And so that's my character, and his name is "Oo" and I'll have a background soon. What do you guys think?
You get another feat, Duboris. One for being a rogue, one for being a human, and Weapon Finesse for free.
Wait, hero lab said I only got 2? Rogue's don't get a talent or a feat at level 1, right?
Fighters are what get 3 feats at level 1. Rogue's are privy to only 2. Right? I don't think Rogues get weapon finesse for Free. They can get a rogue talent equivalent though.
Aardvark is giving everyone Weapon Finesse for free though, remember?
I squealed like a small child. Two-Weapon Fighting added.
MEOW
They must have been erased. I did everything that you told me to do in terms of the rolls. There was a roll of an 18.
OOps, looks like the rolls might be too high, I might have to roll again until I get all 10s.
Since I have never played with you before, Aard, is there a way that you can post your rules so that your rules don't seem arbitrary?
Have there been particular rules that have seemed arbitrary that I should explain, or are you looking for a rundown of any future introductions to the rules?
I have been loathe to introduce the house rules discussion, because we were dealing with so many other subjects (which AP, rolls or point-buy, evil or not, character concepts now or later). I had mentioned earlier that after we get further situated I wanted to discuss house-rules.
So far the only ones introduced was the rolling method and free weapon finesse.
The rolling method (4d6 drop lowest die 7 times, then drop lowest score) sadly started as 6 because I forgot I used 7 from back in the day before people made and expected point-buy to be the norm. I include a too high/too low cap because there tend to be hurt feelings across the gaming community when someone has higher stats than the rest of the party, so I wanted to keep it within a point frame for a little balance in the swingy dice method.
So far:
Dal has a +12 Mod (just at cap) equaling 38 point-buy
Duboris has a +10 Mod equaling 37 point-buy
Lein has a +9 Mod equaling 25 point-buy
and with your last rolls, (13, 13, 11, 15, 9, 13 [dropping the 8])
You have a +5 mod equaling 18 point-buy
Is it lower than the others yes, but as I stated before that the risks of choosing to roll are accepted when deciding to roll. I allowed the option to choose not to roll, but that the decision must be made prior to finding out the results of the roll, so people don't see their rolls and decide that they only want random when it's beneficial to them (the same reason a lot of people love crit rules but hate fumble rules even when they follow the exact same mechanic).
As for Weapon Finesses as a free feat to everyone, since it is only a benefit, I didn't think anyone would have a complaint. The idea being that if a weapon is finessable, and a character has more finesse that brute strength, why would they learn to use weapons only by brute strength unless they get special training to use their finesse. I (as well as a few on the forums) believe Finesse should be a property of the weapon itself. Can a weapon be used effectively with agility over power? If yes, then it is the weapon that has the ability to be used with dex, not the special training of the individual that focused on using his higher dex than str to attack with a weapon that can be effectively used with dex.
I have other houserules that I propose, but my intent was to actually discuss these with a group, as I don't make sweeping houserules if the majority of the group does not agree with the logic and reasoning behind them.
I'm personally a tremendous fan of fumble rules, really. It adds that extra pizzazz to problems. It doesn't really bother me if they're not there, though.
As for your methods of rolling dice for stats; roll 7 sets of 4, drop lowest die from each, then drop lowest score, is usually how I, myself, do it.
The "Curve" point buy is plenty good.
Also, I just didn't notice the bit about weapon finesse, and that makes complete sense. I've dealt with groups, however, that wanted that feat to apply your dex mod to damage, which took forever to explain why that's not going to happen.
That aside, I'm more than content with the lot of all of this. What do you think of Oo?
http://imageshack.us/scaled/thumb/822/rakshas.png < Reference picture
Well your, I don't allow this number on a cap seemed very arbitrary since it was made after rolls were made. I think it would have been more prudent to put all that information some place rather than doing what was asked and being told no, I don't allow that.
To Shalafi's point, in one post he's told he can't use a particular set for a pair of reasons, one of them being that you don't allow 7's before racial mods. (the other being that the actual dice rolls weren't shown, but that's beside the point)
In the very next post, you explained why leinathan would be stuck with his roll of a 5.
Now, he wound up not being stuck with a 5 because of the 7th set of 4d6 you recalled at that point, but it did leave a bit of a "make-up-your-mind" kind of impression.
Part of the confusion is undoubtedly caused by the volume of posts we've had, with character generation just up and taking off like a shot for some of us. It's a shame we didn't flesh out the stat generation discussion more before we forged ahead, but what's done is done at this point.
I think a house rule discussion would be better served sooner rather than later though. At the very least we can nip potential confusion in the bud that way.
HERE is the link to the first post I made about deciding between point-buy or rolls.
When I first brought it up I stated the standards (except for forgetting the 7th roll, and remembering only after I was about to tell Leinathan that he had to deal with having a 5 in his rolls).
The minimum/maximum standards were addressed upon first mention of deciding which character generation method would be used.
There is no minimum single score for rolled numbers, even having a 3 is possible if you are unlucky enough to roll 4 1's twice in the same set. There was only a minumum total value of all the scores combined. As is seen often on the DPR boards, a 7 is acceptable to quite a few people as long as an 18 is available.
The only other thing I added after the rolls (besides the forgotten 7th roll that benefits everyone), is that I need to see the rolls. I guess I can assume blame for that as I figured that them being visible/confirmable was a given. I'm sorry that something happened to your rolls, but again that is why I emphasized the use of preview. It shows exactly how the post will display when submitted.
If you go back and look at my post, I was making the point that since I couldn't see the rolls, maybe he put in a point-buy build. I didn't know.
Then, I stated the standards for point-buy builds. Not that his rolls were wrong for having a 7.
The post I responded to stated:
If they were rolls, I couldn't accept rolls I couldn't see (coupled with having a total mod below +5)
If it was point-buy, I couldn't accept it as there was a 7 included.
The point was that either method did not meet the previously laid out minimum requirements.
I intended on starting house-rule discussion, but everyone was eager to get their rolls done. Since I figured rolling their stats, wouldn't hurt the process, I had no issue with it. I wanted to discuss the house-rules before PC's were made, though, because of various house-rules that may affect Char-gen.
Ooooooh. The 7-is-too-low only applies to point-buy generation, not to rolled stat gen. I see now.
My bad. Apologies!
I did not see that my rolls had been deleted until well after the hour time limit had passed as I was teaching a course last night. They were done the legitimate way but I must have deleted them, I think because they had been posted on a wrong avatar, and I thought I had repasted them. Oh well. This whole thing is becoming very cumbersome.
4d6 ⇒ (3, 5, 3, 5) = 16 -3 = 13
4d6 ⇒ (6, 3, 5, 2) = 16 -2 = 14
4d6 ⇒ (3, 4, 4, 3) = 14 -3 = 11
4d6 ⇒ (3, 6, 5, 4) = 18 -3 = 15
4d6 ⇒ (2, 5, 2, 2) = 11 -2 = 9
4d6 ⇒ (5, 5, 2, 3) = 15 -2 = 13
4d6 ⇒ (3, 1, 3, 2) = 9 -1 = 8 << Dropped Set
So (just trying to be helpful and make things easier), this is the array Shalafi's running with? 15, 14, 13, 13, 11, 9, right?
Aye but you must admit. The anticipation is more than palpable! Rough starts aside, this has the potential to be an awesome show. A few wayward rolls here and there isnt enough to curb the possibilities, right?
Those numbers look correct.
STR: 9
DEX: 13+2 15
CON 13-1 11
INT 15+2 17
WIS 14
CHA 13
I think that they are allocated correctly.
Is it okay to make an elven enchantress?
I'm playing around with some different character concepts...I'm also trying to guage what the party needs, so we can have a balanced party, but mostly I want something that's gonna be fun to play.
Hmm.
I'll get back to y'all soon with a character.
Alright, I've re-considered character creation.
I wanted someone bookish and Lawful, so that we could have some sort of annoying scribe in the party, but I also wanted a melee character, so that ruled out Cloistered Cleric.
Then I stumbled on a couple of things:
Cavalier! There's an archetype called emissary, and an Order of the Tome dedicated to preserving knowledge. (Both located in Ultimate Combat)
My idea would be a character that's a somewhat typical Pathfinder - very dedicated to Explore, Report, and Cooperate. Concerned with regulations and caution. He'd be a very mobile fighter both in and out of the saddle of his trusted mount. He'd be a human cavalier (emissary). Likely Lawful Good. His mission in life is essentially that of the Pathfinders - to find and preserve knowledge, especially written knowledge.
He'd likely be going with the Alabaster Outcast or Monument Scholar trait. Perhaps his family disowned him for being so flighty and not wanting to continue the family trade, or perhaps I'll make him a half-elf, and he was disowned for being...embarrassing.
Anyway, I'll have a character sheet and some background up shortly. Thought we needed a frontliner, what with our lineup of Rogue, Magus, and Wizard so far.
Can we have the rest of our character creation guidelines soon? Starting gold, mostly.
Very interesting background, Lein.
That's a neat slant on cavalier! It's not often frontliners are cast in a bookish, scribe-y light. Very cool.
---
@Shalafi - I think a full arcane caster would be handy to have around. If we're both elves with an arcane bent, would you be interested in playing siblings at all? If you liked the Alabaster Outcast campaign trait, maybe we could have both been booted from the family for whatever reason(s).
Just kind of brainstorming out loud. No need to attach our backstories if it doesn't fit your idea of the gal. =)
Dareon Niroden
Male human cavalier (emissary) 1
LN medium humanoid (human)
Init +3; Senses Perception -1
EXP:
PP:
FAME:
--------------------
DEFENSE
--------------------
AC 21, touch 13, flat-footed 18 (+6 armor, +2 shield, +3 Dex)
hp 13 (1d10+3)Current: 13/13
Fort +4, Ref +3, Will -1
--------------------
OFFENSE
--------------------
Spd 30ft.
Melee battleaxe +4 (1d8+3/x3)
Ranged longbow +4 (1d8/x3)
Special Attacks Challenge (+1 damage, +2 saves, +2 Bluff&Sense Motive vs. target)
--------------------
STATISTICS
--------------------
Str 16, Dex 16, Con 14, Int 15, Wis 9, Cha 9
Base Atk +1; CMB +4; CMD 17
Feats Mounted Combat,
Traits Alabaster Outcast, Historian
Skills Handle Animal +3, Knowledge (arcana) +6, Knowledge (religion) +6, Knowledge (history) +6, Linguistics +7, Profession (scribe) +3, Ride +7
Languages Common, Varisian, Thassilonian, Elven
SQ In or Out of the Saddle, Bonded Mount
Order Order of the Tome
Combat Gear ; Other Gear breastplate, battleaxe, heavy wooden shield, longbow
COIN:
PP:
GP:
SP:
CP:
Alright so I'm not done, but this is pretty much what he's gonna look like. He's gonna lack some social graces (and honestly, he doesn't really care). His ultimate priority is to gather and protect knowledge, and to deliver it to Pathfinder Lodges to be stored. He's a consummate researcher.
He's also a pretty big guy, and he knows it. He's done a lot to learn how to be careful with his body, because he knows he can just break stuff if he isn't careful, and if he broke some ancient carving carelessly, he'd never forgive himself.
Those things said, he's got the capacity for goodness within him, and he may even progress to Lawful Good in time. He's a reliable adventuring companion, and would always prefer to take a hit than a more fragile person.
You don't need to ask for core stuff Shalafi, and Elf and Enchanter are both CRB. Like I said, in one of my initial posts, I am fine with just about anything in the 4 core books, and on the SRD, except for the exclusions I had listed (Most non-core races and Gunslinger, Ninja, Samurai, and Monk) though monk is swingy for me if they can be built and played without the very STRONG Wuxia feel they have about them.
For starting gold take the average
For traits, take 2, one of which must be a campaign trait (though I will accept the PF society traits in the Player's Guide as campaign traits for this AP).
I will post in a little bit the House rules I would like to discuss before implementing (or not implementing based on consensus).