Admittedly I'm not a fan of non-unchained rogues so I don't mind... I mean they had basically no class features except sneak attack and that is sorta very conditional for them.
Yeah. And unchained even made it less conditional. They were just one of my first classes that I played, so I have a soft spot. I love being a skill monkey, and having so many skill ranks to play with felt so good.
Also, while we're here, if Kong wants to grab the Mithral Breastplate, it'd just be sitting in Hell. We also need to update the wealth page. I'm currently working on that, though being heavily distracted :P
Alright, I don't know what a 'Firestarter, Tinderbox' is, so I couldn't put a value on that. I updated the wealth page. It now includes Seth and Kong's loots in the top section. All of the %ages are compared to our total wealth, the 'W/Kong' does not include Seth's WBL, the W/Seth does. Again, in either case, their money is included in the total. The reason I did it this way, is because Kittiface mentioned our WBL being tied to the number of players, which I figure is probably 'number of gems'.
I don't remember the cutoff point for places producing more materials, though. I moved the value of the bag/rods over a column so they wouldn't factor in any longer, but wouldn't need us to look them up again.
Hmm. May I inquire as to where this 'wealth page' is hiding :P?
Edit: Nvm found it under the Hell Village link : )
Edit2: Rings of Protection? 2?
I don't think the Raven Chain Barding actually went anywhere - and if it did ... Well sorta gone now :P
Additionally the +8 HP listed in my profile is from Mythic Tiers (and I should add some more actually!). I don't think we went anywhere with the hp retaining.
Edit3: Or it might be me and my bookkeeping that is very very faulty. Hang on a sec
Err, under the SRD, Campaigns/Settings don't exist, so campaign traits are valid, as long as they fit with the theme of the campaign. Trapfinding is generally meant to be used in an a dungeons or traps-heavy game; you're RAW allowed in any non-AP/PFS game to take Trapfinder (or other campaign traits) with explicit GM permission.
Rogues were one of my favorite classes in 3.5 (though usually far, far better with a few intelligent PrC dips). Basically (at least back then), it's the highest-DPS class there is, combined with the most skill points and the best instant-death attack at high levels. (A crippling strike abuser at high levels could easily deal 10-20 points of no-save strength damage/round). And they got a TON more user-friendly in APG/UC, with things like Improved Two-Weapon Feint and Scout.
But by the time ACG came out, PFS rogues had lost their relevance as a DPS class to Alchemists and Investigators, and the UC Rogue was created to get back to the core of the class that some people missed: being really, really good at stabbing dudes in the kidneys. And nobody stabs dudes in the kidneys better than the Unchained Rogue.
Re: Wealth Sheet: The only thing I did was add the two new characters to it. I haven't made any adjustments to carried equipment, other than knocking the internals of the bag askew (literally) It likewise doesn't include avatar-gear, cause Kittiface said it didn't. I have no idea what's going on with the rings.
Re What Rogue Is: Also, in giving you innate abilities tied to being 'very very skilled.' Hence Skill Unlocks.
Re Trait: So, yeah. Homebrew.
Okay. It seems as if I never wrote down some stuff.
But did we actually do the retraining hp stuff?
I seem to recall some adjustment to our wbl (namely adherence to the chart) torpedoed some of our plans. Hmm.
Additionally, with the sudden disappearance of my bird, I think some of the listed items are not present anymore ...
Edit: @Neri - Mkay. Yeah I'm not sure if everything is correct - hence my confusion :P
I *think* we ended up going for a bit less then we initially planned for. Is the spreadsheet correct for other people?
If it's on there, Lina saw to it you were adequately punched while you drank your calcium-enriched cabbage juice.
I'm not sure about the armor :p
I think I was -going- to pull more, and then Kittiface told us the exact numbers, and we checked them, and the things would have 'stopped' producing sometime during our 'turning gems into gear' process. So we just stopped updating anything, retroactively, at the point it would stop giving us 'free money'.
All wealth *expenditures* are tracked on Lina's character sheet. Liisa got 8 hp from retraining.
I assume your bird's items transfer to the lizard? Or did they just disappear? Some of them are probably usable by Kong...
The bird's items transferred to the lizard.
They will be available again about 12 hours after he ate the bird, but will probably need a bath before anyone wants to wear them.
WBL Total is based on total PCs (Including Seth).
Yep. We're still rolling in dough. Now we need some more levels. Adventure time!
Mkay. I'll add 8 more hp then : )
I dug trough the discussion thread and I think I was away when the spreadsheet came into being, so I probably just missed the finer details of it it seems!
@Lizard/items - that gives Liisa something to do with her day off I guess :P
@Chain shirt barding - could say Neri reforge that to fit something else but a bird? Saaaay a lizard?
Neri can't really reforge things. We could feed it to the volcano, though, with no net gain. :P
Oh and @mdt/Lizard - Should I add a monitor lizards stat block to my profile or do you have something pre-created in mind : )?
Edit: @Neri - Hmm. I thought that stuff came from your place? But if it can't be resized (err more like reshaped, I think both are Small) I guess I could keep it for the future : )
Yes, you can add a monitor lizard. Give it the Mythic template.
@Liisa: I brought the metals, but Lina had the smiths while she had the cavalier gem, and was chewing on the fighter gem. Once we spit out the fighter gem, we wound up with a ton of unskilled laborers, for the most part. Neri's volcano is currently good for: Scrying, Pulling metals/stone/gems, and Lost Boys.
@mdt - Mkay. Then I get to use all my monitor jokes anyhow, that is nice :D
May I ask which Mythic template I should use - or simply slapping the Mythic advancement to the lizard (and then at what rank)?
Sorry to be a bother
@Neri - Oh okay that makes sense!
Edit: @mdt/above - the Mythic subtype as per the 'mythic monster rebuild/creation' chapter?
@Liisa - Savage Template
As the lizard nomphs a local's cat: "Don't worry, he's just monitoring vital signs. What's that? Oh, I'm very sorry. He's dead, Jim."
Edit: There are some really cool new Universal Abilities that I'd never seen in here. Greensight (one of the cooler paizo abilities, IMO), tons of dragon stuff, 'Steal' as a free maneuver when it hits with an attack, so on and so forth.
Greensight is really nifty especially in the forest. Also available as a spell. Just happens to be on Liisas list and compatible with Enduring Blessing if you really like it :D
@mdt - Mkay Altocka's statblock is now included in Liisa's profile. Still a pair of feats not picked yet but I have to think on those. May also move 1 skill point into stealth.
Additionally there was a couple of questions that may have gotten lost in the maelstrom of off-topic stuff yesterday:
1) The book Mythic Spell Compendium, which is a 3pp resource, is that something you are willing to include in the game?
2) The spell Obsidian Flow, a paizo spell (druid 4, wiz 4, summoner 3, unchained summoner 4) with the descriptor earth/fire and heavy volcano theme, is that something Neri may learn despite being a magus?
3) Would it be okay if Liisa had an Ice Spear, a paizo spell (druid 3, wiz 3, witch 3), that normal deals Ice damage (well half of it!) deal some other sort of damage?
I am thinking something like 'Eruption of Pines' or something; perhaps
Blunt or Slashing damage instead of Cold? (But that may be a bit stronger since Energy Resistance is more common then DR ...)
Minor note: At the moment the spell is 50% piercing damage and 50% cold
Cheers : )
I definitely really like it. It was the first thing I ever cast on my mythic druid with the base power. Left the campaign shortly after due to extreme slowness. It was original Kong's game as well, so meh.
I really like Greensight but it's not as important for Neri (who has limited ranged targeting options :p), and you're already spending ton of MP everyday on passive stuff. :)
And yup, you rephrased the questions a lot better than I had. It's worth noting that we can 'change a spell to our element', according to kittiface, but I don't really know what element(s) Lees has access to.
Mkay : )
I think I will go for Communal Resist Energy (Cold) via Inspired Spell in the morning. That gives me 7 10min duration spells that precisely (with a bit of squinting!) to share. Thus every party member can have Resit Cold 20 up and running every day : )
(Could someone double check the wording on Enduring Blessing and Communal Spells for me? I *think* this will work, but it is sorta a corner case.)
@Questions/change spell - Thank you, all I did was making the question shorter :P
And yeah I'm not really sure what elements are 'mine' if any!
Enduring Blessing (Su)
Whenever you cast a spell with a duration of 10 minutes per level or longer upon one willing target, you can change that spell's duration to 24 hours. If the spell has other duration conditions, those still apply (for example, the duration of stoneskin changes to 24 hours or until discharged). A creature can't be subject to more than one spell affected by this ability at a time; if another is cast upon the creature, the first one ends. You can select this ability a second time at 6th tier or higher. The second time you select it, you can use it on spells with a duration of 1 minute per level or longer.
Emphasized. :o
+Other Stuff:
Communal Spells: Communal spells function like other spells, except they allow you to divide the duration among multiple targets, treating each target as a subject of the spell. When you divide the duration, you must divide it as evenly as possible among the targets. Furthermore, unless the communal spell's description indicates otherwise, no target can receive a duration increment smaller than the smallest increment of duration listed in the spell description. For example, if you are 5th level, your communal spell's duration is 10 minutes per level, and you have four targets, each target must receive 10 minutes of duration. The extra 10 minute duration can go to one of the four targets or it is wasted.
Yah I was pondering wherever Communal spells counted as repeated castings of the lower level version (aka is 'treating each target as a subject of the spell' = 'count as casting the spell once per target) or not. : )
Okay, so... I'm now -really strongly considering- starting another Hell's Rebels campaign that gestalts you with Bard. 'A Song of Silver - The Musical'. But I've never ran a gestalt campaign. What should I be on the lookout for if I did this? From my perspective, the obvious is that people would have more skills. They'd have access to minor magic, and they'd have powers ranging from typical performances, to basically rage, to exploding things with their voices.
What are the class options you feel would be pushed out if I did this?
Which do you think would become ridiculously strong options?
Do you think it would be better to simply require Bard submissions and not go the gestalt route?
What does dealing with Gestalted PCs typically mean to you?
@Neri - Here is some inspiration for ya : )
The game sadly didn't take off that well - and the later resurrection also died (I was actually asked to join that one, but I squandered the opportunity due to it being smack in the middle of the exam period : /). But anyhow - some ideas are sound and if you need players there might be some concepts already that you can pm : )
@Gestalted PCs - To me it means blatantly overpowered. Usually through the means of one side being the primary class and the other chock-full of dips that propels stuff into silly territory.
Therefore some limit on that is always good (like 'one side bard only!' or this game 'your gem decides').
Other then that, it means you can actually pick a class with some glaring weaknesses (say a fighter with their skill points or will save) and still make something really nice by gestating with some more skills : )
Here's a post on gestalt stuff (specifically mythic vs gestalt, but I found it interesting anyway).
Gestalt to me means more interest chances to try to find cool synergies. Which yes, perhaps means silly, overpowered PCs. But that being said, other than my tristalt minotaur Tavros, my most powerful character would probably be my straight up kensai character Kaylor. He is definitely more powerful that my gestalted sorcerer/summoner Tatsuo (although perhaps that is partially because that game started off not-gestalt?). To be fair though, while I do kind of consider myself a bit of a min-maxer (because I think that's a significant portion of the fun), I generally don't multiclass, even in gestalt games. So I probably don't build things that are as silly as they could be.
At low levels though, gestalted to me means you can have a spell caster and not have to rest after every couple of battles. As the post above points out, you'll either gestalt two spell casters and have more spells to use or you'll gestalt with something else and have other things you can do in battle.
In regards to a bards only one side of the gestalt, I think that means your characters will need good stats since bards are Cha based and that is often the default dump stat for classes that aren't based on Cha. It might also be a bit rough for anyone wanting to play a spell caster who focuses on a different stat since a +2 Cha, +2 Int headband is significantly more expensive than a +2 Cha headband and a +2 Str belt.
That being said, me and Lina's player have talked a bit before about how you can make characters who's everything is based on Cha. Although for Con, I believe this requires making the character undead, which you probably wouldn't have in your game. But there are things that let you use Cha instead of Dex for AC, Cha to saves, Cha for Int skills, etc.
That being said, me and Lina's player have talked a bit before about how you can make characters who's everything is based on Cha. Although for Con, I believe this requires making the character undead, which you probably wouldn't have in your game. But there are things that let you use Cha instead of Dex for AC, Cha to saves, Cha for Int skills, etc.
Sorry folks, would rather keep the non-paizo stuff out, the gestalt is powerful enough as is.
As to the glass spell, I believe I already told Neri long ago he could add any spell that dealt with both earth & fire to his spell list if it wasn't already there at +1 spell level. That spell seems to fit the bill.
@Liisa:
Yeah, I figured it'd propel things like fighter up quite a bit, due to +Skills/Utility totally being a thing. I also wanted to limit it to one class (albeit one with a ton of options), in order to keep it 'on a leash', so to speak.
That prestige class is a little crazy for a single level dip.
@Johnny: That was really helpful. Particularly in the 'it hurts some magical combinations'. I wouldn't have thought of it in the 'mid-late game' terms that are required to realize the gp cost difference associated with a mixed-attribute caster pairing.
@Kittiface:
I don't remember it, but I'll definitely make note! I just remembered 'shifting spell's types'.
No problem on 3pp. I didn't at all expect it, to be honest, and you're already giving us a ton of options, and I'm loving the game. :)
@Gestalt Still:
Is there anything in particular I should do with monsters? I.E. should I also gestalt them? Should I add more of them? Is it better to run with fewer players in a gestalt game?
Max out HP on the monsters, add 1 to the effective party level for every four levels they have (or fraction thereof).
DO NOT use one monster to hit the new EPL. Add up multiple smaller monsters to hit the new EPL.
Example : Level 10 party has an EPL of about 13 when gestalted. Hit them with two CR 10 monsters and two CR 8 monsters. Or 1 CR 11 and four CR 8's. Or 1 CR 11 and 2 CR 10's.
Gestalt adds a little power, but mostly it adds endurance and flexibility. The extra HP on the enemies levels out the endurance, and the extra level or two balances out the flexibility.
If you hit them with one CR 13 monster, it'll be more likely to flat out kill someone in one round, and it won't last more than two due to action economy. The worst of both worlds.
BTW: GM waiting for you guys to tell him what you're doing...
Sorry folks, would rather keep the non-paizo stuff out, the gestalt is powerful enough as is.
As to the glass spell, I believe I already told Neri long ago he could add any spell that dealt with both earth & fire to his spell list if it wasn't already there at +1 spell level. That spell seems to fit the bill.
Mkay noted : )
Just one more item to pester you with!
3) Would it be okay if Liisa had an Ice Spear, a paizo spell (druid 3, wiz 3, witch 3), that normally deals Ice damage (well half of it!) deal some other sort of damage?
I am thinking something like 'Eruption of Pines' or something; perhaps
Blunt or Slashing damage instead of Cold? (But that may be a bit stronger since Energy Resistance is more common then DR ...)Minor note: At the moment the spell is 50% piercing damage and 50% cold
Cheers : )
To do IC:
1) Rest/craft one day / take a look at Luna's house (<- Liisa will probably spend this time grooming her lizard and fixing up its new gear)
2) Head out towards Deamonwall again
@Neri: Battle Song of the People's Revolt Battle's Song of the People's Revolt Battle's Song of the People's Revolt
Gestalt everyone with bard, and let them pick Spellcasting OR Performance. Then watch as your entire game turns into Les Mis as stagd by LARPers
Thanks a lot, Kitty.
Neri is waiting on Kong to determine whether he wants the mithral breastplate, otherwise, I'll just give you a few 'questions' for Mahb and crew to not hold up too much.
Basic gist:
Do you have an idea of where any 'shrines' are?
We took a raptor through one of the 'heavens' and nothing terrible happened. They can also, possibly, travel through the wall to home now, as long as they aren't Trinity-like.
See if they need anything in particular.
Are Frost Wolves a common tool of Celestine?
I can do this in character or just a quick recap post, whichever is easier and less distracting (though I recognize if I'd started doing it in character a week ago, we'd likely be through it, now :p)
Others are resting/recrafting/searching as Liisa said.
@Lina: What do you mean by pick Spellcasting -or- Performance? Would that not heavily limit archetypes as well?
Not really? Have characters give up either "all spellcasting" or "all bardic performance" from their bard halves, regardless of archetype (since every archetype that trades performances only does so for other performance) and you cut down on action economy worries a lot.
No interest in the mithral breastplate, I can't cast in it.
I am back home again after a 2 week cruise, but I am very sick... caught something on the last day of the voyage. I will try to catch up on reading and posting in all my games by tonight but no guarantees... thanks for botting/waiting for me as needed.
Welcome back! *He says a few days late*
This is a campaign one of my friends is starting up. Its not really my cup of tea, but I said I'd point some of the better players towards it. Bear in mind, it isn't pathfinder. And it's a very different genre than I usually see.
Now that Neri bumped the campaign counter back up again, I might as well wish you welcome back Sseth : )
And I hope you get well soon/have gotten well already.
mdt is dealing with a rough patch atm so there is probably no need to stress back into this game, even if we always enjoy some IC banter.
Additionally - I hope your stuff works out mdt for the best. Somehow . )
@Neri - Thank you for the invitation. It looks sorta shiny but I don't think I can make time to learn another system atm.
Meanwhile, enjoy this video of some mythic druids fighting.
I'm afraid I've had to come to a hard decision.
My life is very hectic and tiring right now, and while I had thought it would calm down, it hasn't. I'm constantly exhausted, and just don't have the energy I used to have. It's not fair to people playing, and I just can't continue apologizing forever.
I'm going to have to cut back on my GM'ing on here some. I had tried to keep up 6 games, which I used to do relatively easily, but lately, it's just so hard to keep them up that I end up looking at the 6, knowing I don't have time or energy for all 6, and then not updating any of them because I don't have the energy to figure out which two or three to update.
I'm going to have to cut back, this is not one of he ones I'm going to drop. It's been very active, and I think it will be easier to keep going than some of the others.
I'll hopefully have an update later today.
MDT
Okay. Just let us know if you need to slow down or anything : )
Or if you need for us to slow down. We have a tendency to throw thirty posts up in a day when we get into the right groove. :)
Yeah. I'm just so impressed that you can keep up more than one! (I have trouble with my one). Thanks for being an awesome GM, regardless.
Pretty much that. Though a lot of mine is the lunar phases that are player interest. :p
That,and the ebb and flow directly impacting my daily emo index. :)
As the slightly overwhelmed GM, in order to get caught back up, can I get a brief recap of what everyone wants to do? Or links to high importance posts...
There's not much this time. The party wants to rest for a night, Lina will fix the robe, and I think Neri wanted to see if Mahb knew anything specific about hidden shrines, but the plan is after a day to head out towards Demonwatch (off-road, stealthy) and map more of the wilderness.
Hang off on the plans then until Seth can make a decision.