I'm awake. For now...
I am indeed not supposed to be up. But sleep is for people who can form complete thoughts. That was supposed to be a joke, but...
It's 2:20 atm, here.
Hey now, the volcano comes with hot springs and mud baths.
The difficulty of lumber is not in downing a tree, but in forming smooth, strong, properly sized planks (If planks are indeed what is required). Maybe Kittiface will let Liisa use Wood Shape on fallen trees to form them into lumber? It'll be slow, even then...
I'll have to ask Sel about the lumber thingy. But we'll work it out : )
@mdt - Did Liisa notice anything when detect-magicing speed-up Daichi?
I figured since the post was at the end of the page I'd poke at it again : )
(using mythic surge just because)
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@Speculation/Builder's gem - Hmm. I wonder if we could 'drop' one of our current gems and host them ourselves?
Getting more people seems uncertain - and this way we would be able to only pick up the Builder and/or Teacher when we have something to feed them.
I think we talked a bit more about gem-moving earlier but I can't recall how it went. Lina has certainly shown that it is possible to remove gems; but with a friendly gems things may be a bit easier?
Another question would be how much the gems themselves lose from being without hosts. It would be sorta annoying to reset our accumulated progress ...
Any attempt to detect magic around the shrines just results in a headache at the level of magic already given off by them. (Neri tried this way back when, got a blinding headache).
Ah : )
@Builder's Gem: Almost assuredly, if they were an okay fit. Then again, it might just work both ways... that when survival is what's at stake, they'll cling to anything they can. :)
Mythic Leadership was how I was intending to fix the broken gems, personally. My character concept is good for Teacher/Musician, I think, with a secondary 'not terrible' for Builder. We'll just have to see.
Minor linguistic query:
Over her we say "han" for him and "hon" for her and we have sorta added "hen" for those times where the identity is sorta dual.
Is there a similar term over with you guys? (I thought a bit about it and "shemale" didn't quite hit the spot :P)
Usually it's 'It' but that is relatively derogatory. Then again, so is Shemale usually. Over here just about anything mixed is usually derogatory. TG or Trans (Transgender) or Andro (Androgynous) is usually the more PC term.
I jump back and forth between he and she regarding someone of questionable gender.
When you know their preferred gender, its easier to use that pronoun. If there's a problem, you can hope they'll correct you.
'They' and 'their' is an extremely incorrect in every way option that tends not to offend anyone but the grammar-obsessed.
@Speculation/Builder's gem - Hmm. I wonder if we could 'drop' one of our current gems and host them ourselves?
Yes, but... it would mean a significant loss of power for that character, likely nonrecoverable.
'They' and 'their' is an extremely incorrect in every way option that tends not to offend anyone but the grammar-obsessed.
This is very, very common, especially as a replacement for "he or she"
All right interesting : )
(And I *knew* I heard something weird about this before! Xe is exactly the thing I am looking for - pitty it isn't really used much.)
And plural is an actually good idea. : )
@Gem swap - Yeah which is why I considered how much damage/regression the gems would suffer without host. But it *might* be a way to fix things if we get desperate?
When you know their preferred gender, its easier to use that pronoun. If there's a problem, you can hope they'll correct you.
The main thing I was thinking about here is the IC people whom are actually sorta 'dual-gendered' where the gem has one gender and the host the other. Like the Holy Knight or the Thief - referring to either as he or she wouldn't really be correct since they are sorta two people. But on the other hand, since they are two people, they is perfect : )
Some people also say "phe" and "pher" but that's confusing because it sounds like different words.
Lol... and here I thought you were all discussing this because Diachi is kinda bishonen, and y'all are talking about because people are gender bending with their gems... that's okay, it's all good.
:) I thought we were, too. Unicorn Lady was just an added effect to me.
@Daichi - Well it is sorta a two-birds-one-stone deal for me, since I'll now have more then one use for the term : P
I've been thinking that I'll just refer to people by their gem's gender if I'm either teasing them or talking to a ghost. Otherwise I'd consider them two different entities and use the appropriate pronoun depending on which one I'm talking about.
IRL, theoretically asking someone their preferred gender pronoun (PGP) is the best approach, but there are of course issues with, I suppose, possibly offending the person if they don't mean to come off as gender ambiguous. I personally tend to use "they/their" if I'm being ambiguous/don't know someone's gender identity and "zie/zir" if the person actually identifies as gender neutral/genderqueer in a non-binary way and doesn't have a different PGP. I've also heard people just repeat the person's name all the time, which sounds kind of awkward in English.
I feel like bringing up PGPs is a bit much, PC as I am. My general preference is to use the obvious pronoun, say "they" if I can't tell, and change pronouns without comment if I'm corrected.
Maybe. That's just what I was told to do. In practice I generally haven't been in a situation where it would come up. I did get asked by a co-worker what my PGP was once while we were talking about gender. It was kind of cool.
So... Mr. Megacorn seems a bit more lucid than the rest of our companions. You guys think there's any chance he might be able to give us info about shrines or geography?
Able to? I'd say probably (barring things that have changed between now and when the gems were last up). Willing to? Maybe less so. First we'd need to find him though.
I'm getting this inkling feeling that when we hit mythic 3, we're getting something akin to mythic leadership, with an awakened, mythic'd animal...
So while Holyfist Knight might sort of have a unicorn, I'd be surprised (barring it having shown up early for him, as domains showed up early for Liisa), if it mattered that his homie-corn is awesome... yet.
That all being said, I look forward to being as wrong as usual. :)
Yeah... of all the gems, Holy Knight might be one of the ones more likely to enjoy Leadership.
GM is waiting on players...
hope you're not waiting on me... last I heard, I faceplanted and was still out.
Mostly everyone else, when they're done making fun of you being faceplanted, I'll advance to when you wake up.
lmfao
What a lame 4500th post. :( all my fault
Obviously we need to shoot Neri.
The only possible punishment...
Nah, save it for when he makes post 5000 even lamer...
And we don't shoot Neri. Lina will just toss him around like a hackey sack.
Hey, the only other thread I'm in that we got to 5k, we expressly didn't post and gave it to the DM. :)
@Daichi: my monks can retrain feats for free (still takes time), but only into either common combat feats or monk/style feats. TWF is probably fine to retrain into, but ask MDT which feats you want to learn, etc.
(I'm currently retraining my feats into Ascetic Style, and will go further the longer we stay here).
twf is high on the list, but Daichi needs more dex to qualify.
Oh! Didn't realize you only hit mythic 1, not mythic 2.
Did you want Power Attack? Ride-by doesn't make much sense if we don't have a horse for you.
Otherwise, we can try to train Daichi in lawful. That could be fun.
Until you can repair the shrine, his mythic is limited.
So... Lina's transition to Lawful wasn't super dramatic. I just sort of went with "epic battle of wills against a cystal that was being too unlawful, followed by weeks of meditation and training."
Atonement would also work, but we don't know anyone high-level and lawful enough to cast it.
But! If Daichi wants to put direct character effort into becoming lawful (though this would, of course, be limited in its usefulness by his shrine's failure to level), one possible way would be to come up with a modification to the "becoming good" penances system, which could actually be cool. This would require him to perform ten penances, then make a will save. Possible such tasks, adapted where necessary, that I think might be reasonable for Lina to propose (though this is, of course, an idea for the GM):
- Confessing past crimes or extremely chaotic acts to an appropriate lawful-aligned agent. (Lina, or an NPC; possibly the unicorn if it comes back)
- Casting a spell with the lawful descriptor. This penance can be completed only once. (Would require UMD and a scroll)
- Donating at least 50 gp to a lawful organization or faith. Each time you do so, the amount needed for the donation to qualify as a penance doubles. (While we don't have anyone to donate to, certain amounts of labor spent on construction might be applicable here)
- Sacrificing wordly possessions. (In this case, possibly burning his keys, cell phone, wallet, etc. in "commitment" to a new life)
- Freeing a creature from injustice. (Rescuing some of the prisoners of Demonreach might count for this, possibly more than once)
- Preaching a sermon of no less than 1 hour on the virtues of lawful behavior. This penance can only be completed once per week. (Simply arguing with a few residents of Hell Village on why we demons are benevolent leaders might qualify, considering how chaotic they are)
- Turning a creature that has committed a crime over to a lawful authority.
- Completing a task or quest for an NPC or organization, without accepting payment other than the correction of some injustice. A GM may decide that a particularly challenging encounter may count as two or more penances.
- Fasting and meditating for 12 hours (leading to fatigue).
- Offering a vanquished foe a just punishment instead of death.
- Refraining from chaotic language or suggestion in private or in conversation with others.
- Instructing other characters or NPCs in lawful courses of action.
-Refraining from lying or deception for an entire week.
I could see Daichi doing some of those things... some artfully (ie intentionally), and some more spontaneously. He has a pretty good idea of what the unicorn wants of him, but he's always been a bit of a rebel against too many rules (ie Daddy issues?), and perhaps without his father here to rankle him, the transition might be a bit easier than it would have been in his old life... but I'm sure it will take a lot more than just a 'decision to be lawful from now on', lol... I'm sure Lina will be a big help along the way ...
I think Kiki is NG, so I had planned to possibly slowly transition Johnny that direction. Right now he's just too selfish/self-interested to be good.
Heh... well, if you want a training regimen, the idea is to force you to turn more lawful over a few weeks in-game. (It might not be enough, or it might be)
willing to give it a go...
So, party roles, as best as I still understand them:
-Kong, Liisa, and Johnny are all your standard mythic spellcaster types (debuffs, buffs, etc., with lots of flexibility). Kong can also hit pretty hard in melee, but is fragile enough that we don't encourage it (but he's the CDG-er of choice for anyone the party manages to paralyze or put to sleep).
-Neri is our standard mythic champion, hitting real hard, etc. (he does more damage than me against non-human opponents). He's also frailer than I'd like.
-Luna hits really hard, and can go invisible basically at will. She's an awesome scout, and against enemies who can't see invisibility, probably our most offensive target. She's also at least as tough as Neri, if not more. So, frontliner #2, except that most of the time she's not a valid enemy target.
-Lina is a classic mythic tank. 15' of reach, anything that enters gets slammed into the ground with extreme prejudice. (10' of reach with her human-bane fists of doom). I'm also slowly retraining her to be more offensive; at high levels, with unchained monk and ascetic strike, she should hit as hard as the other two (with Luna's edge being stealth/maneuvering, and Neri's being the ability to throw down cool spells along with melee).
Lina's second role, though, is grappler, which she has yet to actually pull off well—if we see a spellcaster, anywhere ever, she'll try to immediately grab, tie, and pummel them out of commission. My goal is to eventually stick her with silence, darkness, and darkvision, so that she can become a roaming field of anti-magic.
So having a bard wouldn't be a bad thing... if that's what that blue gem leads to - no way of knowing for sure... but if it IS bard, I'd like to venture into fochlucan lyrist prestige class if that would be allowed, but I'm not sure it would be... and the game would have to last that long of course, as it's a tough pr to qualify for...
We'll see what mdt has to say about the alignment change and the training first... as I'm perfectly willing to keep to the chosen gem too. I'm just afraid that Daichi wouldn't make a good frontliner basically with those 1d4 weapons, he wouldn't be much of a damage dealer, and with his light armor, he wouldn't be much of a tank... so not sure where his role would fall... distraction? lol... I don't really want him to end up as a 5th wheel though...
As a side note: Here is a Pathfinderized Fochlucan Lyrist prestige class proposal which looks pretty good (in the spoiler)...
I'm 95% sure you'll be able to change gems with relative ease. The sleepy gem might not be able to aid you in that, though.
The Bard Gem will also almost assuredly need lumber and nails... unless it can simply reuse the same old stuff, since it's not that old. Though it's probably still dry-rotted.
Also, Neri is not a standard mythic champion! I'm a very non-standard (for better or worse) mythic magus. :)
Lina's 'second role' has yet to work on virtually anything. We'll see if that gets better. :P
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I don't know what the lyrist is, really, other than the fact that Lina is adamantly opposed to people playing it, and if Lina thinks it's broken...
If you want to stick with the gem, Ascetic Style is totally an option to make the weapons more usable for you.
In addition to that, if you don't go Ascetic/Enlightened Paladin, Smite Evil (which will be reliably usable, given what we're dealing with) will cover for a lot of 'missing damage' or to-hit that comes inherently to the low-damage, dual-wielding weapons. (In fact, Smite Evil is a powerful dual-wield steroid. Throw in a mount, and you don't need to move as much since you threaten from every square of said mount, and gain height advantage...)
I think that the Paladin -can- work out. Also, I just realized in another game that Unicorn may well have been a reference to L5R...
All that being said, you should play what you enjoy. I think the inherent randomness was an amazing component of the game that drew me in... and is probably why I stuck with Ptaleon through feeling like I was mostly useless, up until I got a better grip (and help) with the class. Plus, I'd feel funny with anyone else in Neri's head -but- Ptaleon at this point. It makes me smile when the gem is a jerk. :)
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The Musician is still an amazingly excellent choice for party composition, as well as a lot of really cool capabilities. But I think you mentioned something about not wanted to be a 'bard again' earlier, unless I'm mistaken. :)
Also, very worth mentioning, if you don't want to go Ascetic Style:
Tempered Champion allows you to act as a warpriest with your weapons, and gives you an amazing addition to your divine bond. Plus, bonus feats fixes one of the problems Lina has with Paladin. :)
Also...
Your god demonstrates how to turn a longsword into a shining beacon of hope.
Optional Replacement: A paladin who worships such a god can replace a mercy with this initial benefit, even if she doesn't meets its prerequisites.
Initial Benefit(s): While wielding a longsword, you can perform an impressive display of prowess as a full-round action. All allies within 30 feet who can see your display gain a +2 sacred bonus on attack rolls, saving throws, and skill checks for 1 round + 1 round per 5 points of base attack bonus you have.
Advanced Prerequisite(s): Dazzling Display, Weapon Focus (longsword), base attack bonus +10.
Optional Replacement: A paladin of at least 9th level who worships such a god can replace a mercy with the following advanced benefit, even if she doesn't meet the benefit's prerequisites.
Advanced Benefit(s): As a standard action or at the end of a charge, you can make an attack against a foe with a longsword. If you succeed, you grant all allies who can see your attack a +2 sacred bonus on attack rolls, saving throws, and skill checks for 1 minute.
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That's normally an Iomedae thing (for the mercy part), -the- holy warrior of Pathfinder's deities. And it's also normally a longsword thing. We'll see!
A note on deities: Instead of deities per se, I think so far we've been giving characters codes of ethics based on Golarion deities? Lina is clearly more Abadar than Irori.
If Daichi comes up with a paladin code for himself (or with the consultation of his retainers), hmm, Irori might be a good place to go from?
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@Daichi: No, no PRCs in this campaign that we know of. And Fochlucan Lyrist is one of the most terrible abominations of PrC imbalance to ever come out of 3.5 (that Pathfinderized version mostly fixes it, but yeah, no way you're getting the druid levels).
As for the paladin's role here: look up Mythic Ride-By Attack. It's not useful until tier 3, but add it to Mounted Blade or Wheeling Charge and you've got a character who can skirmish pretty well. It's still somewhat limited in applications, and Wheeling Charge is probably the better option, but you can pull some *interesting* things off. Guardian and Hierophant also both have abilities that can reset your mount's location for repeated charges.
At least, until we toughen you up later. Also whoa, Tempered Champion is awesome. And that Inspiring Sword thing is basically free (for a mercy)
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@Neri: Imagine a mystic theurge, but for Bards and Druids. Now give it full BAB, excellent saves, and bardic music progression. It's a game-breaker not because it's 4x as good as anything else, but because it makes it very hard to justify playing a non-Lyrist bard.
Trying to catch up now...
...Alignment changes are up to the player. We can take a 'month or two of training' and the person has shifted to match the gem (the gem is helping push). That's up to the player.
Changing gem's is hard (even willing gems have trouble letting go).
As to the weapons and damage... The average damage difference between 1d4 and 1d10 is 3 pts. You don't do damage based on die size, you do it based on # of dice and static bonuses. Power Attack, enhancement, strength, etc.
tempered champion is pretty awesome and I could replace warrior of the holy light with it (they both replace spellcasting), BUT... there is the whole divine bond thing going on... it kind of conflicts with the unicorn... and enlightened champion does too, but that archetype was specifically encouraged.
As stated before, the Devine Bond with the Unicorn is separate from the normal Divine Bond you get as a Paladin. (Thieves don't normally get a divine bond with animals, but Luna has one with the raccoon, even if she treats it like dirt). So that should not be a concern.
For this specific Paladin, Tempered Champion can mesh with Enlightened Paladin, because this specific Paladin treats the butterfly swords as part of their body/spirit. But not other weapons. So, you can take the Tempered Champion if you like, but it will only apply to the butterfly swords.
that would be kinda cool... I'll have to decide between that and holy light now.
@ Neri: it's not that I don't LIKE playing bards... just wanted a change of pace... I'm perfectly willing to stick with the pally, but still like the idea of the other gem too... I was really torn ooc when making the decision... it's why i went with a completely non-class oriented reason for picking a gem. after all Daichi had no idea what he was doing in that cavern.
Don't worry. I figure my choice is going to ultimately be 'meta' for the Leadership option if it's played out the same way. It's really hard -not- to make a decision on what to do when I already 'know' the answers. Short of random chance as a whole.
I am figuring that the person is a lot more likely to grab any weapons they come across over grabbing a shiny gem, though. Which might really complicate things. It'd ultimately leave her most likely grabbing Builder or Teacher, though, whichever she got to first. :)