Should sorcerers really be designed to be item-reliant?

[Colette Brunel]

http://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo5lkxh?Sorcerer-Class-Preview

According to this blog, "Because Charisma also adds to Resonance Points, the sorcerer can make up for some of her limited spell choice compared to the wizard's spellbook by supplementing her spell selection with more scrolls, staves, and wands."

This does not seem quite right to me. The sorcerer thematically emphasizes innate strength, so it comes across as unfitting for the sorcerer to be designed to emphasize usage of scrolls, staves, and wands, which seems more wizardly.

Perhaps the sorcerer should be given a class feature that can expend Resonance Points to expand spell versatility? Obviously, it would not be as good as bringing around scrolls, staves, and wands, but it would let a sorcerer better emphasize their own inherent power.

[Darkorin]

I do agree with you, this has in fact been discussed intensively in the sorcerer blog post discussion.

[Darkorin]

One of the main point I had is that the difference of Resonance point between sorcerer and other spellcaster shouldn't be that high, and that since a wizard and a sorcerer should have the same wealth by level, it shouldn't be used as a way to balance the class, unless the sorcerer is supposed to have more wealth.

Ps:Nice reference to Tales of, I used to play with someone who was using that name a lot xD

[Inquisitive Tiefling]

On the one hand, with my first ever played character being a Tiefling Sorcerer (whom I've gone on to develop into a very fleshed out character I really want to play more of), I really do understand the concept that their magic should be more innate, and they should be tapping into the power of their bloodline rather than magical items.

But on the other hand, magic comes to Sorcerers in a very natural albeit unrefined way, channeling the magic flowing through their veins and from the world around them in a more raw form that they only somewhat understand. Wizards have spent ages learning to understand the inner workings of magic and how to not only tap into but control it. So with that in mind on a certain level, it makes sense that a Sorcerer could more easily attune themselves to and simply "pick up" a magical item that can act as something of a focal point or medium for their raw but unrefined arcane talent.

I can understand both sides of the debate and because of that, I generally have mixed feelings on it because it really does come down to how you view it and how you feel a Sorcerer's inherited talent should be put on display.

[PossibleCabbage]

I feel like it's appropriate if Sorcerers find effortless some sorts of magic that Wizards would need to work towards, and "wave this magic stick until something happens" is right in that wheelhouse.

Scrolls seem a lot less appropriate for this, so I'm wondering if we could do something to make scrolls and staves easier for wizards but wands and potions easier for sorcerers.

[Malk_Content]

I can easily see a line of Wizard appropriate feats around using Magic Items more efficiently. Sorcerers can do it with brute force (although this effect reduces in importance as experience grows) but Wizards could invest in understand how these work.

E.G

Scroll Master: After casting a non-Cantrip spell you may use the lingering magic to activate a scroll of the same level or lower than the Spell Slot used without spending Resonance.

[Elleth]

I didn't get the impression they were assuming charisma was a stronger stat and hence a reason for a nerf, but rather something a sorcerer could take advantage of early game. I think the limited spell choice is more related to flexible spell use in same level slots, along with spontaneous heightening.

In practice I think what it's likely to mean is that sorcerers will use magic items slightly more frequently, while wizards and clerics and druids will use rituals more frequently (because they key off int or wis). Playing with magical objects rather than applying learned techniques. And I think I'm alright with that -sorcerer swishing around a pair of staves while the wizard sits there and draws circles in the ground.

[RiverMesa]

The way I see (which may or may not line up with how Paizo intended it) is that magic items are less innately magical and more as conduits for a person's innate magic (resonance), producing magical effects.
(Which makes sense considering that most magic items are no longer intended to have limited uses per day or charges, although I know wands are tricky with the current 2e ruleset.)

From that angle, it would make sense that sorcerers (and to a lesser and more thematically awkward extent, bards), filled with that inner magic of theirs, would be better at using them than the likes of wizards or clerics, who instead either manipulate the magic around them via gruelingly-studied techniques, or channeling magic from some external source (a deity, a natural force etc.).

That kind of description/explanation might not be as satisfactory for you as it is for me, though.

[Jason S]

Colette Brunel wrote:

This does not seem quite right to me. The sorcerer thematically emphasizes innate strength, so it comes across as unfitting for the sorcerer to be designed to emphasize usage of scrolls, staves, and wands, which seems more wizardly.

You have a good argument. Maybe sorcerers should be able to use Resonance to power their own spells, like spell points, as an option?

I do think however that some sorcerers should be able to use their resonance to power items, for all of the reasons it makes sense that it's tied to CHR.

[WatersLethe]

RiverMesa wrote:

That kind of description/explanation might not be as satisfactory for you as it is for me, though.

You got that right.

I *loathe* the repercussions of taking more of the wonder and magic out of the world around our characters and ascribing it to personal power.

The concept of a trinket, brimming with magical power, locked away in a deep dungeon waiting for its next chance to shape the destiny of world is like catnip to me. I eat that s~$~ up.

I frolic in the possibilities presented by a low level character getting their hands on a mythical item. What sort of trouble could they get themselves into?

In an unlocked world where anything you can imagine can happen, which is the heart and soul of TTRPG, the mere possibility of acquiring and utilizing powerful magic items is tantalizing. Resonance says "Hey, even if you could get your hands on that stuff you can only use one or two items, why don't you go back to grinding levels in a dungeon?"