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This thread is for the discussion of what role replay will have in the first edition campaign when Pathfinder Society second edition launches in 2019.
For more context to this thread, visit Pathfinder Society 2: Replay, Rewards, and Rebuilds and Pathfinder Playtest and Pathfinder Society FAQ.
I've always championed and will maintain for unlimited replay to a degree. Just keep it to one replay per character.
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Do we really want to tell them "Sorry, you guys are joining too late. We're changing the rules, 'cause everyone know PFS1e is done and needs to die off."?
I don't see that as the statement we'd be making to new players.
It's more like, "Welcome to PFS Local. Oh, you played that at a Con already? You can't play today," becomes, "Welcome to PFS Local. Oh, you played that at a Con already? Please don't spoil anything for those that haven't played it."
Also, the VOs are setting the schedule here, so I don't see why we would all of the sudden start playing Library of the Lion over and over and over just because we could (no matter how fun it is).
An advantage of unlimited replays could be that people could build campaigns out of scenarios and not have to worry about excluding people who happened to play a handful of scenarios before.
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Hi,
I have been playing PFS for approx. 6 years now. It is my hobby and I play a lot for the enjoyment of the game, as I presume everyone does. In addition, I have read many of the the counterpoints to the proposal of unlimited re-plays and I see their logic against it.
Nevertheless, regardless of the calculations of how many hours there are in total for all of the scenarios, I have hit a wall with finding scenarios to play. The fact is, no one has unlimited money to buy all the scenarios and the same ones are being offered time- and-time again.
I know some of them are being given out free-of-charge, but I still see the same ones being scheduled. And yes, I have spoken to the Venture Captain in my area, but it is what it is.
In addition, I don't know why hard rules for replay cannot be instituted. For example, if you are replaying a scenario, and you spoil the game for others, then you will be asked to leave the table and the chronicle sheet will be not be given out to that player. Will it cause tension, probably, but after a few times of that, people will get the point.
I know that 5e, the Adventure League, has unlimited replays; or more precisely, one replay per character. I don't play that game system, but I know people that do. According to them, their might be some issues that arise from time-to-time, but on the whole, it has gone pretty well. In fact, they really enjoy always having a game to play.
Also, to the argument that unlimited replays (at least one per character) monopolizing tables from regular players, and discourages new players to sit at the table, then change the table registration rules. For example, reserve 3 seats for new players and 3 for people replaying the scenario. Everyone in a particular gaming area knows who always plays, and I don't think it would be hard to regulate this rule.
In any case, I have given my 2 cents. I really like the game and I am excited on how I see PF2 is being written...more challenge from monsters, less over the top characters that end the fight by the second initiative order, and maybe more focus on role-playing that encourages team play over how much damage you can do in one round.
In the end, it is a game to have fun in, and something that I think, done well, promotes camaraderie and a sense of community.
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I am all for all the options presented so far, as each of them has some very interesting ideas! ESPECIALLY number 4.
Number 4 is dangerous if left unchecked, but Living Greyhawk was a perfect example of how that worked. For example retiring scenarios after a set period of time or even making certain adventures regional.
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This coming from the perspective of someone who joined in to PFS relatively late (partway through Season 6) and hence still has a lot of scenarios to replay especially from early years, but much of my local lodge is more experienced and has been playing from day 1:
I would like to see the option to replay everything, on the basis that even with some new blood, we'd need some of the more experienced players to fill in tables. I can also see the potential problems with item hunting of unlimited replays. I'd rather see something along the line of time gates. You can only replay a scenario for free after you haven't played it for X years. This will mean you always have scenarios to play, even if you've played them all (unless you're a crazy person who manages to play all 11 years of scenarios in 1-2 years), but can't pick and choose. Admittedly probably a pain to track and manage, though.
Another option I could see is replay if there are new people at the table. So you couldn't have a free replay table of 100% new people, but if you have, say, 2 newbies, vets could fill in to make it a complete table. Like above, this is coming more from the perspective of playing than managing.
Or perhaps free replay but you have to play 20/30/etc games between replays?
TL/DR: I want to see a way to cycle replays so that vets can help fill in open seats at tables with people wanting to play scenarios for the first time, but with some kind of automatic gating system (be it time, games played, etc) to prevent the item and scenario farming problem you see with raw open replay.
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I haven't read all 15 pages of this thread, but here's an idea I haven't seen.
Create rules that will make it possible for running 3rd party and homebrew content.
Here's how it would work.
-Pick a tier
-1 xp per scenario
-create parameters for how prestige points are earned.
-create a set of about 20 generic boons that gms can choose to award, and limit it to 2 boons per scenario. There should be fewer boons for non-offical content.
-Give an appropriate amount for each tier of magic items that can be put on the chronicle sheet.
-release a homebrew chronicle sheet for each tier, both in printable pdf and fillable word doc format.
-scenarios will be reported as "Tier x-x homebrew", with categories of 1-5, 3-7, 5-7, 7-11 and 12-15.
The point is...people will want to keep playing pfs 1st edition. Paizo will be moving forward with the new campaign, and cannot devote resources to creating new content for a previous edition. So turn it over to the fans and create the structure for tracking progress. It hurts no one.
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Venture-Lieutenant, Online—PbP
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No one has answered the claim I made several pages ago that unless we go to unlimited replay, the campaign will eventually die. We could debate if it will be 5 years or 10 years, but people will run out of content. I believe there are enough scenarios out there that the campaign could still be thriving in 20 years if almost unlimited replay is allowed. What limits do I want?
1. Only one chronicle for a specific adventure on a character
2. Replay requires GM permission. This means that someone can only mess up one scenario because GMs won't allow them to replay any more after that.
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I know that 5e, the Adventure League, has unlimited replays; or more precisely, one replay per character. I don't play that game system, but I know people that do. According to them, their might be some issues that arise from time-to-time, but on the whole, it has gone pretty well. In fact, they really enjoy always having a game to play.
I've been dipping into Adventures League a bit recently. What I find the main problem with this system is they have huge problems getting enough GM's to meet player demand. I've seen many tables get cancelled due to no GM's being available. I've seen entire slots at a convention 8 tables without a single GM signed up to run any of the 8 tables.
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There really aren't any new ideas, just rehashing from the perspective of so far unheard from players. Since Paizo has moved to a survey model for much of its feedback regarding 2E and PFS2, at this point, I think the best thing to do is simply add replay as a topic for a weekly blog with a survey. At least then they'll have some data to actually look at.
Personally, I think Paizo has their mind made up about replay based on their own bias (supported by history and anecdotal experience) and a survey won't have much impact, but at least it would give them the opportunity to hear from us in a meaningful way outside of a too-oft argumentative thread and who knows, if the vote is overwhelmingly in favor of expanded replay, maybe those asking for it will get what they want.
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I would think Paizo's not going to care what happens to the 1E campaign after 2E launch, and would be surprised if they even bother to keep track of 1E games on their website. It will quickly devolve to Wild West status. All these arguments are pointless. Just like no one plays 4E anymore, PFS 1E will quickly die off as GMs prefer to run 2E. The people who want to stay with 1E seem to be mostly players. Unless some of them step up who haven't before to run I don't see enough GMs to run games for them. Paizo will want to sell it's 2E stuff, and will encourage the VOs and VCs to focus on them. It would be foolish not to. I think defacto it will become unlimited as there will be no one remaining who cares enough to police it, and will be a moot point as there will be rare to find a public 1E game anyway.
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I can't build a character I want to play
This comes up often and to some extent I think it’s an unfair assessment. The Playtest arguably offers more character options than the original CRB did and obviously it’s not going to offer the breadth of options that 1E does after a decade of product. If you just don’t like the system, that’s fine, but we can’t directly contrast the players options of the two systems and expect the Playtest to reasonably compare.
There's not a lack of multi-classing, there's a different way of doing it. That way may not appeal, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
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Venture-Lieutenant, Indiana—Martinsville
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Multiclassing in PF2 is, I think, done better than it was in previous systems before 3.0 had come out. It is also something that is being "tweaked" in the final product much like the ancestries are.
My only concern at this point is being able to get more than a couple of "archtype" slots before one gets to the upper levels of play.
At this point in the game, getting some of the classes that are in the PF1 library now is a matter of flavor in PF2 that would either be Archtypes in PF2, or alternate classes of what exists now (or different bloodlines of a sorcerer) in the playtest. This would be in place of deferring mechanics that PF1 classes use between their sister classes that they are based on, like Cleric vs Oracle, or Wizard vs Sorcerer.
I would really like to see how the Kinetisist would look like in the new ruleset. It isn't that it won't happen, but how long it would take before it does.
As far as Paizo supporting PF1 after Gen Con 2019, I believe that regular play will resume for some time, hashing out replay rules would help in that regard, but with no new material (officially, though home games can adjust PF2 materials presumingly) for PF1 as PF2 gets underway, the gameplay for it will wane in favor of either the new PF2 brand or a competing game. This is the risk Paizo is willing to take to update the ruleset, and make headway into a market that is getting more competitive than it has been in the past.
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Organized Play Manager
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Locking this thread.
Commentary is moved to the blog discussing Replay Update