First Edition Replay when Second Edition Launches


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Silver Crusade 4/5 5/55/55/5

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I like the "star replays for another player" approach more than the "generic chronicle" approach, personally... but then, I don't like generic chronicles! So take that with a grain of salt.

I don't think opening up Season 4 to one extra playthrough is a problem. Opening Season 4 up to unlimited playthroughs with the original rewards is a problem. So I don't think you need to stagger them out in such a way that Season 4 gets pushed to the back.

I'd also like to get seasons 0 and 10 opened up for replay. Season 0 was a strong season, even if it was for 3.5 originally.

One other challenge: series that cross season lines. I think we should stick to chronological order.

My thought is pretty close to the same as it has been, for the staggered release schedule: open up season 0 immediately, all at once, and schedule scenarios in chronological order, four per month or so. Whatever's left of the season at the end of every 6-month period, just release it all. Proceed until everything's been rereleased once.

(I'm also not sure if this was on purpose; I like season 5 too! But I'm not sure it needs to be rereleased twice...)

2/5

I'm still not clear why folks thinking that opening up all the available scenarios for an additional replay with a generic chronicle sheet is a bad idea.

Shalandar wrote "I can see how organizers could become overwhelmed with too many scenarios released all at one time. It also makes a problem for conventions who want to still offer PFS1, as to what should be scheduled to get the most players (aka, what hasn't been run at local shops)."

I would argue that instead of seeing organized as "overwhelmed," they should be seen as empowered with the additional flexibility of having all the scenarios available for creating schedules.

The Exchange 5/5

shalandar wrote:
nosig wrote:
Organizer: "I'm scheduling '#-## Whips and Corsets' for next Tuesday Night - "
Your area must be drastically different than mine. My area schedules games a month and sometimes two months in advance...and we never know who will be showing up for the game ahead of time.

LOL! Yes, we should NOT consider my area to be typical.

But I was actually considering what BNW was trying to relate. A venue/lodge that will normally only have one table, and so often cannot seat all the players (someone can't play today, as they have already played that scenario). Often it will be just one player who can't be seated. And when the organizer is trying to fit in what to schedule they'll be juggling a spreadsheet (or the PFSTracker) trying to find something EVERYONE (all 4 or 5 players) can still play. And often it will be something like...

Player A has played Option 1,
Player B has played Option 2,
Players C and D have played Option 3 - but C said they could run it...

So - they check to see if A, B, or C can't make it next week and pick an option dependent on who isn't there... Or they tell one of them not to come...

Silver Crusade 4/5 5/55/55/5

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pjrogers wrote:

I'm still not clear why folks thinking that opening up all the available scenarios for an additional replay with a generic chronicle sheet is a bad idea.

Shalandar wrote "I can see how organizers could become overwhelmed with too many scenarios released all at one time. It also makes a problem for conventions who want to still offer PFS1, as to what should be scheduled to get the most players (aka, what hasn't been run at local shops)."

I would argue that instead of seeing organized as "overwhelmed," they should be seen as empowered with the additional flexibility of having all the scenarios available for creating schedules.

My take on this:

Why have a staggered rerelease instead of one major rerelease?
Staggered rerelease solves additional problems--it makes scheduling easier for players who change groups at some point during the timeframe we're considering. And even with the staggered release schedule, there's enough content to support four (or more!) PFS1 games per month, which is a pretty healthy clip.

I don't think a one-time rerelease of everything is a bad idea. I think staggered rerelease is better.

Why add blank chronicles?
Blank chronicles are designed to solve a boon farming problem. But if we're talking rereleasing everything just once, with either approach, I think that solves the problem of boon farming. There's no reason to solve it twice. Especially because...

I don't think blank chronicles will work for everything.
Sure, they'll work for most things. But there are a number of places where they don't make sense:
1. When a scenario asks if your character has played a previous scenario, it usually asks for the chronicle sheet. This is solveable, except when...
2. Sometimes when a scenario checks to see if your character has played a previous scenario, it asks for a boon on the chronicle sheet. This is a more serious problem and breaking this can really hurt the sense of continuity and story that PFS tries to provide. Plus there are some boons that are meant to make the scenarios that follow more survivable and playing without those boons is basically "Hard Mode."
3. Furthermore, we have a problem with negative boons on the chronicle sheet. There are scenarios that can provide unique curses, cost you prestige, all sorts of creative things. There's even a chronicle sheet that permanently docks an ability score if you screw up. Using a blank chronicle reduces the risk and confuses the persistence of conditions. There have even been recent scenarios, stuff released in the past couple of years, with these--with boons that are drawbacks that can't be represented simply by scribbling "-1 Con" on a blank chronicle.
4. Not to mention there are scenarios where a blank chronicle is going to be so different from what the scenario expects that it just won't make sense. Getting a blank chronicle for a level 2 play of the Confirmation would actually be a reward, not a drawback, I expect. The Bonekeeps just won't work with blank chronicles. Etc.
5. Chronicles for quest arcs.

That means that figuring out what the edge cases are and whether to ignore them or deal with them or not rerelease them is going to be work. Possibly a lot of work. And for what reward? Not much, in my reckoning.

So could it work? Yeah. But I would much rather propose a simpler solution.

The Exchange 5/5

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pjrogers wrote:

I'm still not clear why folks thinking that opening up all the available scenarios for an additional replay with a generic chronicle sheet is a bad idea.

Shalandar wrote "I can see how organizers could become overwhelmed with too many scenarios released all at one time. It also makes a problem for conventions who want to still offer PFS1, as to what should be scheduled to get the most players (aka, what hasn't been run at local shops)."

I would argue that instead of seeing organized as "overwhelmed," they should be seen as empowered with the additional flexibility of having all the scenarios available for creating schedules.

In the first few weeks/months the options of what is available would be great - but as time goes on and players all play random scenarios the "Geek Sudoku" gets MUCH harder.

Say it's three months sense Replays were announced. We will have 6 random players to seat, all of whom have played random scenarios in the past 3 months... aprox. 12 scenarios each (about one a week).

What is the chance that any scenario the organizer picks has already been played by one of those 6 players? Remember, the organizer only has control over what they have scheduled, and may not (likely doesn't) have knowledge of what the individual players have each played.

12 scenarios played by 6 players is potentially 72 different scenarios (though it is likely to be closer to 36). Now, realize that the organizer cannot choice to schedule what was just released - they have to randomly pick something - and if they pick poorly they may loose 1 or more players (maybe half? maybe all?). And as each week passes, the "Geek Sudoku" gets harder and harder...

Whereas with a limited release schedule, the organizer KNOWS what has been Replayed world wide for the last three months. And even better, they know what is "New" - what was just released this week, and that has the best chance of being something everyone can play.

The Exchange 5/5

totally derailing post - feel free to ignore this:
It's going to totally be a bummer after 600+ posts on this subject, if there isn't ANY official change on "First Edition Replay when Second Edition Launches"... though at the same time I really hope there is NO announcement on an official policy before Second Edition Launches. Any announcement earlier about a change will only lead to a bunch of people posting/demanding "Why can't we have it NOW?", as well as the expectations that any "New Policy" will be adopted into PFS2e. Grandfathered in.

So, even if there is NO CHANGE to existing policy, I hope that at the end of Season 10 we get some sort of announcement that the suggestions were considered, even if ultimately - for the good of the hobby - they were all rejected.

And every now and again it's nice to just hear a note saying "We're still watching this thread"... even if I know "they" are.

Scarab Sages Organized Play Developer

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We've been watching this thread, just like all the other 2E update threads, consistently and have been formulating and adjusting ideas for how to proceed accordingly, but we've been largely avoiding directly participating in the conversation because we don't want to inadvertently stifle any good ideas by changing the course of conversation through our input.

That being said, there are some suggestions we can do something with, some we would like to and can't, and some that don't really reflect the needs or realities of the new campaign. That doesn't mean that those suggestions we can't move on aren't being dissected and analyzed so we can see if there's another route to resolving the problems they try to address, just that there are a lot of needs, limits, and moving parts that all need to be reconciled.

Whatever the final go-forward plan does look like, it will almost certainly involve expanding replay beyond what is currently available, and it will definitely not go into effect until after the new edition drops. I believe that we've got an upcoming blog on some of these considerations dropping in the near future, so I'll probably stick my head back into the thread and point you in the correct direction if that proves to be true.

The Exchange 5/5

thanks for the re-assurance! I'm kind of like a little kid that way... long as I know someone is listening, I'm happier. (even if I don't get my Pony/toy/Ice cream).

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/55/55/55/5 ***** Venture-Captain, Minnesota

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Thanks for posting, Michael. Most appreciated!

I’ve been following this thread since the beginning. I don’t always post here because I’ve said my bit. I will say, Michael, that I really hope that upcoming blog drops soon. There’s anxiety in lots of the in-person lodges about having tables make.

Whatever the answer, I think it’s best if were soon to lay all the anxiety to rest.

Hmm

1/5 5/55/5 ** Venture-Captain, Australia—WA—

shalandar wrote:
I've really thought about this, from a problem solving stand point, and I tried to address as many concerns as possible with this proposal.

I really appreciate that you, and several others, have put so much time, thought, and effort into finding a solution. I doubly appreciate how this thread turned what was a hotbed of conflicting opinions into a working discussion and exchange of ideas.

While I have mostly been lurking and reading, there has been much that has provoked my own thoughts on the subject and improved my knowledge on the many and varied approaches and situations of PFS groups.

I also appreciate Michael Sayre dropping in to reassure us.

Now, back to lurking.

Silver Crusade 4/5 5/55/55/5

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Thanks, Michael. I think we know that you guys are always lurking, but it's nice to see that confirmed sometimes. :)

Sometimes changing the course of the conversation can be useful, though. If you do see that we're going down a particularly useless rabbit-hole, I personally wouldn't mind it if we were pointed in more productive directions.

2/5 *

Boy this thread got really quite when then the adults announce they were watching

Since I already posted my good ideas, I’ll post my really bad idea:

Each month randomly select four scenarios to be be evergreen for one month, then permanently retire them! Guaranteed that everyone has something to play every month and it puts a sunset period (~ 6 years) on PFS 1st edition.

The Exchange 5/5

GlennH wrote:

Boy this thread got really quite when then the adults announce they were watching

Since I already posted my good ideas, I’ll post my really bad idea:

Each month randomly select four scenarios to be be evergreen for one month, then permanently retire them! Guaranteed that everyone has something to play every month and it puts a sunset period (~ 6 years) on PFS 1st edition.

Why do you want to "put a sunset period" on the campaign?

Should we start the new PFS2e with the understanding that we'll only have a fixed period of availability? Say 10 years?

If it's FUN, why quit? (this is related to the statement, "If it's not fun, don't do it. Life is to short for Bad Games.")

2/5 *

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nosig wrote:
GlennH wrote:

Boy this thread got really quite when then the adults announce they were watching

Since I already posted my good ideas, I’ll post my really bad idea:

Each month randomly select four scenarios to be be evergreen for one month, then permanently retire them! Guaranteed that everyone has something to play every month and it puts a sunset period (~ 6 years) on PFS 1st edition.

Why do you want to "put a sunset period" on the campaign?

Should we start the new PFS2e with the understanding that we'll only have a fixed period of availability? Say 10 years?

If it's FUN, why quit? (this is related to the statement, "If it's not fun, don't do it. Life is to short for Bad Games.")

Your asking me to defend my Bad Idea? I’ll give it a try.

First, give too many choices makes it difficult to make a choice, therefor having only a choice between four scenarios makes it much easier to choice what to run, and being evergreen insures everyone can play it. (My be issues with tiers).

Second As for the Sunset period, having it available for a limited duriation makes it a rare resource, If you don’t play these scenarios this month then they are gone forever! You can put off the beach trip with your significant other for another five years while you choose to play Pathfinder.

Third, Paizo will make 2.0 fun to play too!

Fourth, If you absolutely have to continue playing 1.0 then you join the shadow lodge that is the unofficial PFS where you have different set of characters using all the scenarios. Handing out their own chronical for play/GMing just without all that pesky reporting. Note Shadow PFS characters are not compatable with offical PFS.

Grand Lodge 5/5

Tell me more of this "shadow lodge"? You have captured my interest... is there clandestine meetings in hidden locations, passwords, secret handshakes, cloaked servers in the bowels of the dark web... that sort of thing? Or do we just get together once a week to complain that GM Torch was mistreated by the Ten?

Shadow Lodge 4/5

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TORCH WAS RIGHT!

Silver Crusade 4/5 5/55/55/5

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GlennH wrote:
nosig wrote:
GlennH wrote:

Boy this thread got really quite when then the adults announce they were watching

Since I already posted my good ideas, I’ll post my really bad idea:

Each month randomly select four scenarios to be be evergreen for one month, then permanently retire them! Guaranteed that everyone has something to play every month and it puts a sunset period (~ 6 years) on PFS 1st edition.

Why do you want to "put a sunset period" on the campaign?

Should we start the new PFS2e with the understanding that we'll only have a fixed period of availability? Say 10 years?

If it's FUN, why quit? (this is related to the statement, "If it's not fun, don't do it. Life is to short for Bad Games.")

Your asking me to defend my Bad Idea? I’ll give it a try.

First, give too many choices makes it difficult to make a choice, therefor having only a choice between four scenarios makes it much easier to choice what to run, and being evergreen insures everyone can play it. (My be issues with tiers).

Second As for the Sunset period, having it available for a limited duriation makes it a rare resource, If you don’t play these scenarios this month then they are gone forever! You can put off the beach trip with your significant other for another five years while you choose to play Pathfinder.

Third, Paizo will make 2.0 fun to play too!

Fourth, If you absolutely have to continue playing 1.0 then you join the shadow lodge that is the unofficial PFS where you have different set of characters using all the scenarios. Handing out their own chronical for play/GMing just without all that pesky reporting. Note Shadow PFS characters are not compatable with offical PFS.

Can't say I'm a fan of the idea, but it's creative!

3/5

Alex Wreschnig wrote:
I don't think blank chronicles will work for everything.

What if, instead of just receiving a "blank chronicle" you were receiving a 0xp, 0gp, 0pa chronicle as if you were doing a "make a table go" replay and then got to fill in the portion on a bonus chronicle sheet (similar to the holiday chronicle sheets, emerald spire, and some APs) based on the fact that you had done a replay? - THAT chronicle is the one that would give any gp / PA / xp. The "Zeroed" chronicle would still note any negative boons, consequences, etc and would be available for GMs to track for specific scenario purposes.

Ideally, an "Explore/Report/Cooperate" replay chronicle would be formatted in a manner similar to some of the quest sheets where the player can either continue to contribute to the chronicle or "cash it out" and apply it to a character for whatever rewards had been unlocked.

Silver Crusade 4/5 5/55/55/5

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TimD wrote:
Alex Wreschnig wrote:
I don't think blank chronicles will work for everything.

What if, instead of just receiving a "blank chronicle" you were receiving a 0xp, 0gp, 0pa chronicle as if you were doing a "make a table go" replay and then got to fill in the portion on a bonus chronicle sheet (similar to the holiday chronicle sheets, emerald spire, and some APs) based on the fact that you had done a replay? - THAT chronicle is the one that would give any gp / PA / xp. The "Zeroed" chronicle would still note any negative boons, consequences, etc and would be available for GMs to track for specific scenario purposes.

Ideally, an "Explore/Report/Cooperate" replay chronicle would be formatted in a manner similar to some of the quest sheets where the player can either continue to contribute to the chronicle or "cash it out" and apply it to a character for whatever rewards had been unlocked.

What kind of problems are you hoping the zero-ed chronicle would solve in this case? I think I see how this would work, but I'm not sure what the advantages would be over other replay schemes. GMs remembering to cross out positive boons would be an issue, although I don't think the issue of not receiving positive boons (when having those boons is assumed) is addressed here, so it only partially addresses the "Have you played X scenario?" challenge. As I'm reading it I think that it's an interesting approach but the key idea (a replay chronicle) is separate from your idea for solving some of the problems with blank chronicles (we could hand out zeroed chronicles along with the blank ones, for example, with the same results.)

It's an interesting idea, though. I think it could stand to be fleshed out a little more. Hmmm.

Silver Crusade 4/5 5/55/55/5

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Looking more closely at your key idea--what kind of effects would you hope to have for these multiple-chronicle replay sheets? Were you thinking that a PC might only get partial credit for a replay (like 1/2 xp, 1/2 level appropriate gold) and once they replay X scenarios they get a big lump sum? What would the design goal be for providing rewards in a lump sum rather than providing level-appropriate rewards on a blank chronicle?

I can see how increasing rewards per game played on a replay chronicle could be gamified, but I'm not seeing a healthy game here. I imagine you've got a better idea than I do of what you were hoping to accomplish--what am I missing?

3/5

I assume the lump sum replay goal would be to require multiple replays to equal one new never played scenarios so that you're better playing one you've not played before, but you can still get credit of some kind and tables can still make.

Silver Crusade 4/5 5/55/55/5

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Nathanael Love wrote:
I assume the lump sum replay goal would be to require multiple replays to equal one new never played scenarios so that you're better playing one you've not played before, but you can still get credit of some kind and tables can still make.

Unless you're looking at absolutely tiny amounts of credit (less than half an XP per scenario played), I'd think it's still easier to represent a linear rewards progression with individual (blank) chronicles... but I'm not sure less than half credit would be worth it to players. Might also result in some GP curve distortion from day jobs. Unless you ban day job checks on these sorts of replays, which is a whole other can of worms...

3/5

Alex Wreschnig wrote:
Looking more closely at your key idea--what kind of effects would you hope to have for these multiple-chronicle replay sheets?

I'd imagined it like some of the Quest chronicle sheets, but possibly more or less extensive depending on the specifics of what the sheet would allow.

The goal would be to encourage folks to help make tables by allowing a replay, but to cut down on replay for chronicle-fishing purposes while not making it strictly better than playing an adventure that one hasn't played yet.

In my head (at the moment, at least), it looks like 3 to 5 areas on a chronicle / boon sheet. The first would be the normal intro / flavor for the chronicle showing what it is for and any restrictions on using the chronicle or boon. The next 1 to 3 areas have lines for char #, GM#, scenario#, game date, and the level the character was who played the scenario. The last area would be where the "finalization" would be calculated and would have a check-list of options. It would have a place to initial and specify the final adventure used on the sheet and instructions on how to apply any rewards.

Alex Wreschnig wrote:
Were you thinking that a PC might only get partial credit for a replay (like 1/2 xp, 1/2 level appropriate gold) and once they replay X scenarios they get a big lump sum? What would the design goal be for providing rewards in a lump sum rather than providing level-appropriate rewards on a blank chronicle?

Again, in my head (and I'm sure other folks have many other thoughts on this) it would be either minimal or just under minimal gold / tier based on the level of the character the sheet is applied to with an alternative for rewards other than just gold / pa / xp. What those alternatives are, would be a bit more up in the air - and would likely depend on the # of sessions played for no other benefit other than to make tables (on the lower end, maybe the ability to purchase items off of chronicle sheets for higher PA cost, or discounted retraining ; mid range, maybe to start a new character at higher level ; on the higher end, maybe specific race boons or the ability to duplicate or transfer another boon [with restrictions] onto a new character - with all sorts of options in between)

Alex Wreschnig wrote:
I can see how increasing rewards per game played on a replay chronicle could be gamified, but I'm not seeing a healthy game here. I imagine you've got a better idea than I do of what you were hoping to accomplish--what am I missing?

Sure - again, the end goal would be that it wouldn't be strictly better - just that they aren't going into the negatives for helping out or replaying a scenario they don't even remember from years before.

3/5

Alex Wreschnig wrote:
Nathanael Love wrote:
I assume the lump sum replay goal would be to require multiple replays to equal one new never played scenarios so that you're better playing one you've not played before, but you can still get credit of some kind and tables can still make.
Unless you're looking at absolutely tiny amounts of credit (less than half an XP per scenario played), I'd think it's still easier to represent a linear rewards progression with individual (blank) chronicles... but I'm not sure less than half credit would be worth it to players. Might also result in some GP curve distortion from day jobs. Unless you ban day job checks on these sorts of replays, which is a whole other can of worms...

If you followed the model of quests it would be something like:

1 replayed scenario-- 1 XP, 1/6th the gold of your tier

2 replayed scenario-- 1 XP, 2/6th the gold, 1 Prestige

3 replayed scenarios-- 1 XP, half the usual gold, 1 prestige

4 replayed scenarios-- 1 XP, 4/6th gold, 2 prestige

5 replayed scenarios-- 1 XP, 5/6th the gold, 2 prestige

6 replayed scenarios (max credit)-- 1 XP, full gold, 2 prestige

You could add in reclaiming one boon each at the 3rd, and 5th scenarios maybe?

Then at the 6th give a boon that unlocked a full replay that worked like a GM Star replay where you get full credit again?

Silver Crusade 4/5 5/55/55/5

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So imagine we're organizing. We've got a table of 7 at scenario A, and a table of 2 at scenario B. We'd like to get someone from scenario A over to scenario B, but everyone playing A has already played B. Do you think someone would be willing to jump over if they were going to get credit on this sheet? Especially if they only had one eligible character, who they'd already signed up to play a scenario afterward? 1 xp, 0 pp, and a tiny amount of gold sounds like a punishment, not a reward.

5/5 5/55/55/5

You know, three squiggly lines effectively makes any chronicle a blank chronicle.

Silver Crusade 1/5 Contributor

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Alex Wreschnig wrote:
1 xp, 0 pp, and a tiny amount of gold sounds like a punishment, not a reward.

This. I get that the point is to make replay as punitive and undesirable as possible, and it seems like this accomplishes that purpose efficiently.

The Exchange 5/5

BigNorseWolf wrote:
You know, three squiggly lines effectively makes any chronicle a blank chronicle.

Might take more than three.

Got to mark out the Boons and Conditions too.

HAY! it's BNW, so I have to find some way disagree with him!

Silver Crusade 1/5 *

nosig wrote:

Why do you want to "put a sunset period" on the campaign?

Should we start the new PFS2e with the understanding that we'll only have a fixed period of availability? Say 10 years?

If it's FUN, why quit? (this is related to the statement, "If it's not fun, don't do it. Life is to short for Bad Games.")

I'm glad to see that in my period of silence on this thread, you have come to argue for what I was trying to many pages back.

If you were for this from the beginning, then I have no idea how we misunderstood each-other so aggressively. If not, I'm glad someone convinced you.

Game on (and on, and on...)

The Exchange 5/5

Tash Thon wrote:
nosig wrote:

Why do you want to "put a sunset period" on the campaign?

Should we start the new PFS2e with the understanding that we'll only have a fixed period of availability? Say 10 years?

If it's FUN, why quit? (this is related to the statement, "If it's not fun, don't do it. Life is to short for Bad Games.")

I'm glad to see that in my period of silence on this thread, you have come to argue for what I was trying to many pages back.

If you were for this from the beginning, then I have no idea how we misunderstood each-other so aggressively. If not, I'm glad someone convinced you.

Game on (and on, and on...)

well - this sure is out of the blue...

Perhaps you have me confused with some other poster?

(edit to insert): In your original post in this thread you supported option 4)

Tash Thon wrote:
"...I fully favor option 4..."

I (strongly) oppose that option, as I feel that it will lead (has led in other campaigns) directly to "Bad Games".

I do NOT support Unlimited Replay. I feel it would kill both the existing campaign, and likely badly damage any successor campaign.

If your original position has not changed, then I fear that we are still not in agreement.

Grand Lodge 4/5 ***** Venture-Captain, Missouri—Columbia

Unlimited Replay is just not going to happen in my opinion. If someone demands that option, they might as well start planning to make their own PFS organization and find a way to fund it because I just cannot see Paizo putting all the financial support into PF 2.0 while also supporting what I think would be detrimental to the launch and growth of 2.0.

Silver Crusade 1/5 *

nosig wrote:

Perhaps you have me confused with some other poster?

No, from page 1 you were opposed to any form of open-ended PFS, then on this page you made the comment I quoted earlier. Maybe you just fail to see how incompatible those two positions are.

As for your parting statement, I had offered many ideas less than fully unbounded replay, you went out of your way to misread them.

Silver Crusade 4/5 5/55/55/5

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It sounds like you two have some mutually amenable positions, even if you got to them from very different starting opinions.

4/5

What if instead of a replay of PFS characters, we have something else, something from the perspective of the antagonists. We could play all of our old 1E PFS Scenario, but they would all have a twist, the intro lines, personalities and some of the intricacies would change. All provided in a monthly pamphlet designed to change the specific narrative in the adventure into the new campaign.

Heroes need not apply....

The Serpent's Society

In search of magic, riches and power the dark agents of the Serpent coil around the unsuspecting masses to acquire long buried secrets, forbidden artifacts and control of vast business enterprises from all over Golarion. The operatives of the Serpent use whatever tactics needed for the mission in the name of success. Be amongst the dark and decrepit, the feared and loathed to join this vaunted organization and the spoils of victory will be yours for the taking!

Alignments: Any Neutral, LE, NE
Banned Classes: Any class, archetype, or prestige class where good alignment is required.
Mature Adults Only: 18yrs and over required to play

....etc...etc

1/5 5/5

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June Soler wrote:

What if instead of a replay of PFS characters, we have something else, something from the perspective of the antagonists. We could play all of our old 1E PFS Scenario, but they would all have a twist, the intro lines, personalities and some of the intricacies would change. All provided in a monthly pamphlet designed to change the specific narrative in the adventure into the new campaign.

Heroes need not apply....

The Serpent's Society

In search of magic, riches and power the dark agents of the Serpent coil around the unsuspecting masses to acquire long buried secrets, forbidden artifacts and control of vast business enterprises from all over Golarion. The operatives of the Serpent use whatever tactics needed for the mission in the name of success. Be amongst the dark and decrepit, the feared and loathed to join this vaunted organization and the spoils of victory will be yours for the taking!

Sounds intriguing...

Alignments: Any Neutral, LE, NE
Banned Classes: Any class, archetype, or prestige class where good alignment is required.
Mature Adults Only: 18yrs and over required to play

....etc...etc

No.

...you've probably not sat at a table of folks that would abuse this. It is not a fun experience.

We Be Aspis was good as ' one-off' runs, but it definitely not good for org play, imo.

Plus, putting an age limit like that WILL draw out folks that would not be a positive contribution to org play.

4/5

Wei Ji the Learner wrote:

No.

...you've probably not sat at a table of folks that would abuse this. It is not a fun experience.

We Be Aspis was good as ' one-off' runs, but it definitely not good for org play, imo.

Plus, putting an age limit like that WILL draw out folks that would not be a positive contribution to org play.

Actually I've sat at some tables of PFS and they were not a fun experience. It's all about table variation. Besides I was throwing out options, you're certainly entitled to your opinion as we all are.

Another option could be the no society option, an entirely new campaign using the 1E framework. Similar in vein to Legends of the Shining Jewel, Living Arcanis, Greyhawk Reborn under the Organized Play Foundation.

Dark Archive 5/5

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June Soler wrote:

What if instead of a replay of PFS characters, we have something else, something from the perspective of the antagonists. We could play all of our old 1E PFS Scenario, but they would all have a twist, the intro lines, personalities and some of the intricacies would change. All provided in a monthly pamphlet designed to change the specific narrative in the adventure into the new campaign.

Heroes need not apply....

The Serpent's Society

In search of magic, riches and power the dark agents of the Serpent coil around the unsuspecting masses to acquire long buried secrets, forbidden artifacts and control of vast business enterprises from all over Golarion. The operatives of the Serpent use whatever tactics needed for the mission in the name of success. Be amongst the dark and decrepit, the feared and loathed to join this vaunted organization and the spoils of victory will be yours for the taking!

Alignments: Any Neutral, LE, NE
Banned Classes: Any class, archetype, or prestige class where good alignment is required.
Mature Adults Only: 18yrs and over required to play

....etc...etc

You could try posting this suggestion in a thread of it's own.

Mainly because it really doesn't fit in this one... "First Edition Replay when Second Edition Launches" is not "Alternate Campaign Plotlines after Second Edition Launches"

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Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber
June Soler wrote:


Actually I've sat at some tables of PFS and they were not a fun experience. It's all about table variation. Besides I was throwing out options, you're certainly entitled to your opinion as we all are.

Another option could be the no society option, an entirely new campaign using the 1E framework. Similar in vein to Legends of the Shining Jewel, Living Arcanis, Greyhawk Reborn under the Organized Play Foundation.

I will grant you that the term was in-general, and was attempting to avoid being blunt while conveying the impact at which I failed miserably.

The problem with 'EBIL' campaigns is that people take it as a *mission* to be total a-hats to their fellow players as well as their GMs. And if the campaign is based around that, there's even LESS a GM can do when folks go 'Oh, but I'm *PLAYIN' MAH CHARACTAH!*'.

'Entitled' is implying nobility, and I am not nobility by any stretch of the word. It's also used as a 'buzzword' for 'that's a nice opinion, but mine is DEFINITELY better' in some circles.

I'd prefer the word 'empowered' instead, as it helps us all feel the strength of our own opinions, good or ill. So I am empowered by my opinion, much as you are empowered by yours.

As far as the negativity concerns:

I'm talking about *unwanted public attention* from the perspective of someone who remembers vividly the 'D&D Scare' of the '80's and being stopped by police because of suspicion of 'being a gamer' and 'up to no good' (True Story, did happen, do not want to repeat.)

Putting an age limit on things significantly changes the character of a campaign, and there's no good way to enforce it short of asking for ID at the door -- and when that starts happening folks who are closer to the edge of edginess mcedgyperson start playing and it becomes far less inclusive to new younger players.

As someone has said, however, moving this to another thread would probably be ideal, so we can minimize the noise profile and focus on the key salient point, which is how to allow people to play without coming off like certain other org-play who were... less than receptive to such a thing.

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Nester Reese wrote:


You could try posting this suggestion in a thread of it's own.

Mainly because it really doesn't fit in this one... "First Edition Replay when Second Edition Launches" is not "Alternate Campaign Plotlines after Second Edition Launches"

Agreed, Apologies for the thread derail.

Dark Archive 5/5

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June Soler wrote:
Nester Reese wrote:


You could try posting this suggestion in a thread of it's own.

Mainly because it really doesn't fit in this one... "First Edition Replay when Second Edition Launches" is not "Alternate Campaign Plotlines after Second Edition Launches"

Agreed, Apologies for the thread derail.

NP - just figured you would get better input to the idea on a thread for

Alternate Campaign ideas:

I could totally see Home Game spin offs from the PFS Campaign...

"CSI - Absalom:" - Yeah, great spot to run a few Vigilantes...

"Dwarves in Purple" - Sort of like Men in Black, only on the Isle of Kortos and cleaning up after the Pathfinders go thru... Adventures like "What about that Fallen Fortress?" or "Second Team into the Dog Pharaoh's Tomb"

"Carrion Hill Two - the Nightmare Continues" - ah... never mind, I'm rather not think about that one...

"The Return of the Prince (of Augustana)" - loosely inspired by the story of "Norton I, Emperor of the United States & Protector of Mexico".

Scarab Sages 5/5

Wei Ji the Learner wrote:


The problem with 'EBIL' campaigns

What does EBIL stand for? I haven't seen that acronym before.

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Tallow wrote:
Wei Ji the Learner wrote:


The problem with 'EBIL' campaigns

What does EBIL stand for? I haven't seen that acronym before.

I'm guessing it is a Typo (intended or not) for "EVIL"

Scarab Sages 5/5

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nosig wrote:
Tallow wrote:
Wei Ji the Learner wrote:


The problem with 'EBIL' campaigns

What does EBIL stand for? I haven't seen that acronym before.
I'm guessing it is a Typo (intended or not) for "EVIL"

Ah, the way Wei Ji put quotes around 'Entitled' and 'Empowered' I thought that was the first word ('E') in 'EBIL' in some acronym coined in some obscure venue and then assumed to be colloquial.

Reading it as 'EVIL' certainly makes contextual sense with what he wrote. And I generally agree, that I don't think the average player I've run across in PFS would be mature enough to play an evil campaign based on how they currently play an heroic campaign.

Silver Crusade 4/5 5/55/55/5

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Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps Subscriber

June's suggestion would certainly make a replay of Serpent's Rise interesting. Do you switch it and Siege of Serpent's, or something else?

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Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber

EBIL AFAIK is for the folks who *think* they're being evil but in reality are closer to 'Heh heh heh, watch this! FIRE! Heh heh heh' scale shenanigans.

And then it turns into a "How hard can I screw my fellow players over and possibly the GM?" contest.

And that is very much not a fun experience in any play I've ever done that has tried the concept out.

I'd always bring someone serious, nuanced, believable for a group play and a scale *above* 'hurhurhur let's play with ded bodies hurhur' and the play would invariably degenerate.

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It makes me chuckle that folks are now posting suggestions that are effectively PFS homebrew content as an additional solution to keeping PFSv1 play alive. As that's exactly what I said people would do.

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And for all we know, they might have gotten the idea from you! :)

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Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber

I stand by my earlier assessment, it'll be a logistical nightmare based on previous experience.

I'd like some way to have the campaign viable so that I might someday be able to get five stars, even if the 1.0 campaign is not in the forefront anymore.

But if it doesn't happen, that's life.

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