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Adventurer's Armory 2: Weapon Modifications / Proficiency Questions


Rules Questions


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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber, Campaign Setting, Companion, Maps, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

The rules for Weapon Modifications have the following to say:

After being modified, a weapon’s category (simple, martial,
or exotic) increases by one step.

...

A character proficient with a specific weapon (such as a cleric’s proficiency with her deity’s favored weapon) is not automatically proficient with a modified weapon of that type.

How far does that limitation go? If I'm a rogue, and I modify my rapier (making it into an exotic weapon) am I still proficient in its use? My class proficiency says that I am proficient with rapiers. It doesn't say anything about martial or exotic weapons.

What if I was a brawler, who modified his daggers with the versatile design (close weapons) modification? The modification makes the daggers into martial weapons, which brawlers are not automatically proficient in. They are proficient with armaments from the close weapon group, however. So I can still use my daggers without penalty, right?

What if it's a modified weapon which I'm (normally) proficient in only because it is my deity's favored weapon, and I also have the Weapon Adept feat for the modification? Am I proficient in it again?

Just what exactly is this rule supposed to cover outside of a deity's favored weapon? How does it interact with Weapon Familiarity?

Does the Modified Weapon Proficiency feat give me proficiency in weapons I wouldn't normally be proficient in? For example, say I take this feat for modified greataxes, but I'm a sorcerer. An I now proficient in modified greataxes? What about normal greataxes?


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Is there a link yet to the Modified Weapon Proficiency feat?
Looking at what you have there - provisionally it looks like your rogue is out of luck, but your brawler is ok. A modified rapier is not a rapier, but a modified dagger is still a close weapon.

Full text may change my opinion.

The Exchange Owner - D20 Hobbies

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If a rogue (proficient specifically with rapier) alters the martial rapier to be an exotic, they they need EWP (exotic rapier).

If you modify a club (simple -> martial), then your fighter still has proficiency.


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Ravingdork wrote:
Does the Modified Weapon Proficiency feat give me proficiency in weapons I wouldn't normally be proficient in? For example, say I take this feat for modified greataxes, but I'm a sorcerer. An I now proficient in modified greataxes? What about normal greataxes?

Did you somehow gain it without meeting its prerequisites? ^_^


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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber, Campaign Setting, Companion, Maps, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Isabelle Lee wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:
Does the Modified Weapon Proficiency feat give me proficiency in weapons I wouldn't normally be proficient in? For example, say I take this feat for modified greataxes, but I'm a sorcerer. An I now proficient in modified greataxes? What about normal greataxes?
Did you somehow gain it without meeting its prerequisites? ^_^

Blah! That's what I get for edit adding to my post late at night. I suppose we can diehard that question into the answered category.

Still a lot of ambiguities in other areas though.


Yeah, the Brawler one is what I'm thinking of. If I modify a weapon to be in the close weapons group, does a Brawler gain proficiency in it because they are by default proficient with all the weapons in the Close Fighter Group?

If so this appears that for the cost of modification, a Brawler can now flurry with anything. Lucerne Hammer + Outslug style anybody?


Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

But an unchained monk is automatically proficient with any weapon modified to be a part of the monk weapon group, right? So katanas and Tetsubos, falcatas, butcher's axes... all good to go?


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Torbyne wrote:
But an unchained monk is automatically proficient with any weapon modified to be a part of the monk weapon group, right? So katanas and Tetsubos, falcatas, butcher's axes... all good to go?

They're proficient with anything with the monk special quality, which is entirely separate from the monk weapon group as far as I know (as in, I'm unaware of anything that says adding something to the monk weapon group automatically gives it the monk special quality).


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber, Campaign Setting, Companion, Maps, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
skizzerz wrote:
...I'm unaware of anything that says adding something to the monk weapon group automatically gives it the monk special quality...

I feel like I've read somewhere that, that actually was the case. I don't recall the source though.


Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
skizzerz wrote:
Torbyne wrote:
But an unchained monk is automatically proficient with any weapon modified to be a part of the monk weapon group, right? So katanas and Tetsubos, falcatas, butcher's axes... all good to go?
They're proficient with anything with the monk special quality, which is entirely separate from the monk weapon group as far as I know (as in, I'm unaware of anything that says adding something to the monk weapon group automatically gives it the monk special quality).

Ah curses. i would need something like a brawler to get all weapons by defualt like this than.

But at least my crusader/unchained monk now has a way to get flurry of blows with a katana by way of making it part of the monk fighter group and crusader's flurry letting it act like it had the monk property... Though i dont know where that leaves me in proficincy since i gain it with a katana by going crusader, get crusader's flurry to make it act like it has the monk property, lose proficincy by making it double exotic to make it part of the monk fighter group so i can ascetic style with it... but gain it back by being proficient with it due to it effectively having the monk special weapon property by way of a feat?


What about stuff like the katana? If "characters can use a katana two-handed as a martial weapon", does that change when it gets modded?

Because if not, that would make a katana modified twice easier to use than a club modified twice.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber, Campaign Setting, Companion, Maps, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
shaventalz wrote:

What about stuff like the katana? If "characters can use a katana two-handed as a martial weapon", does that change when it gets modded?

Because if not, that would make a katana modified twice easier to use than a club modified twice.

Perhaps the katana would become exotic when used use two-handed, and prohibited when used one-handed?


Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

trying to parse my crusader/monk.

my goal is to use ascetic style with a katana to flurry of blows, domain strike etc. through the katana.

Monk is proficient with anything that has the monk property.

Ascetic style requires the weapon to be a part of the monk weapon group.

By dipping one level into Crusader Cleric i gain proficiency with (regular) katanas.

Picking up Crusader's Flurry (the feat) lets the katana have the monk weapon property.

At this point the character is proficient and can flurry of blows with a katana but cant use ki abilities, stunning blow or domain strike through the sword. It can not be selected for Ascetic style.

If the katana is a versatile weapon is it still valid for Crusader's flurry? meaning that is still has the monk property and the character is still proficient with it and that it can also now be selected for Ascetic Style?


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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber, Campaign Setting, Companion, Maps, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

The katana is still a katana; though the proficiency changes, it doesn't stop being a katana (if it did, there'd be a big mess with things like weapon focus). So, depending on the wording of Crusader's Flurry, it should still work out.

EDIT: Just read crusader's flurry. I can certainly see why you're uncertain! I for one still think it qualifies as your deity's favored weapon, even when modified, just not for the purposes of proficiency.


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Ravingdork wrote:
The katana is still a katana; though the proficiency changes, it doesn't stop being a katana (if it did, there'd be a big mess with things like weapon focus). So, depending on the wording of Crusader's Flurry, it should still work out.

so it would still count as a diety's favored weapon even though you are not automatically proficient with it? if so than i think this whole convuluted build actually works!

Finally, after... my entire history of playing DnD i can do a (almost entirely) single classed unarmored swordmaster! :D


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Ravingdork wrote:
EDIT: Just read crusader's flurry. I can certainly see why you're uncertain! I for one still think it qualifies as your deity's favored weapon, even when modified, just not for the purposes of proficiency.

Right, and so long as a modified weapon still counts as the same type as the diety's favored weapon than the character can treat it as if it was a monk weapon and that backdoors the character into proficiency with the modified weapon.


Torbyne wrote:
Right, and so long as a modified weapon still counts as the same type as the diety's favored weapon than the character can treat it as if it was a monk weapon and that backdoors the character into proficiency with the modified weapon.

Might want to be careful about this assumption. It might get ruled similarly to the stat-to-skill traits, where just being able to use charisma on knowledge checks doesn't make knowledge a charisma-based skill. It could be that being able to treat the weapon as a monk weapon doesn't actually make it a monk weapon for proficiency.


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shaventalz wrote:
Torbyne wrote:
Right, and so long as a modified weapon still counts as the same type as the diety's favored weapon than the character can treat it as if it was a monk weapon and that backdoors the character into proficiency with the modified weapon.
Might want to be careful about this assumption. It might get ruled similarly to the stat-to-skill traits, where just being able to use charisma on knowledge checks doesn't make knowledge a charisma-based skill. It could be that being able to treat the weapon as a monk weapon doesn't actually make it a monk weapon for proficiency.

That part i actually feel very confident on, if you treat the weapon as having property X than it has property X for anything that checks against it. Otherwise you need would need a complete list of effects that apply and that rules out compatability with anything to be printed after the feat.

Basically my logic is, Unchained Monk checks for a weapon property and if present the character is proficient with it.

Crusader's flurry says if you ever need to check the weapon, it has the monk property.

The monk checks the weapon against the Monk Special Weapon Property and it comes back as present, therefor the monk is proficient.

I get that these abilities are all written at separate points in the game that are individually years apart but there is nothing to say just because an option is old or uncommon that it doesnt still work as written with new content.


Why not just add the katana to the Monk fighter weapon group and then use Ascetic Style on it?


Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Secret Wizard wrote:
Why not just add the katana to the Monk fighter weapon group and then use Ascetic Style on it?

I dont think that would make the sword count as having the monk special weapon property which isnt a deal breaker, it just means going a different path for proficiency.


Torbyne wrote:
Secret Wizard wrote:
Why not just add the katana to the Monk fighter weapon group and then use Ascetic Style on it?
I dont think that would make the sword count as having the monk special weapon property which isnt a deal breaker, it just means going a different path for proficiency.

If you go Tengu, Half-Elf or Military Tradition Human, you are well on the curve.


Need to get this book.

Any ideas about how this interacts with a transformative weapon?


Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Secret Wizard wrote:
Torbyne wrote:
Secret Wizard wrote:
Why not just add the katana to the Monk fighter weapon group and then use Ascetic Style on it?
I dont think that would make the sword count as having the monk special weapon property which isnt a deal breaker, it just means going a different path for proficiency.
If you go Tengu, Half-Elf or Military Tradition Human, you are well on the curve.

Hmm. once i get my hands on the book proper i will make a separate thread and look at how to build it. the gist is a single dip into crusader cleric of shizuru and the rest in unchained monk. i want to focus on doing everything through the sword including domain strikes. eventually getting touch of repose on a flying kick through a sword followed by medusa's wrath and jabbing style. Not sure if the feat budget is there and there is some rules-fu i need to work out still.


Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Someday people are going to cite threads like this as proof that Pathfinder got too complicated for its own good :)

The Exchange Owner - D20 Hobbies

+1 Jhaeman The water can get too muddy to see through.


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Jhaeman wrote:
Someday people are going to cite threads like this as proof that Pathfinder got too complicated for its own good :)

Is that day a few years ago? I've reached the point already where i have to keep lists of interesting things i want to try out in the system because its too large to remember all the options out there. too large to remember even all the useful options in the vast sea of only-there-to-meet-quota content that has been published.


James Risner wrote:
+1 Jhaeman The water can get too muddy to see through.

Yep, the other day someone asked how much material there was to learn in Pathfinder to be "up to date". I sent him a picture of the stack of rule books and all the Player Companions from 8 years. Then I mentioned how a few of the Campaign Setting books have player material. Granted some of the material is 3.5 and some of it has been updated and/or FAQ'd. But the game has gotten very, very dense with options.

At some point (soon in my opinion) the audience has to decide whether they want more frequent reprints like those that have shown up recently (Adventurer's Guide), or a restart with a 2.0 sort of reboot. I'm not planning to buy much Starfinder product, but I am paying attention to it. It's reception is part of what will probably decide what direction Paizo moves in eventually.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber, Campaign Setting, Companion, Maps, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Torbyne wrote:
Jhaeman wrote:
Someday people are going to cite threads like this as proof that Pathfinder got too complicated for its own good :)
Is that day a few years ago? I've reached the point already where i have to keep lists of interesting things i want to try out in the system because its too large to remember all the options out there. too large to remember even all the useful options in the vast sea of only-there-to-meet-quota content that has been published.

Lists? Really?

Yeah...me too.


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Jhaeman wrote:
Someday people are going to cite threads like this as proof that Pathfinder got too complicated for its own good :)

Eh, the complication and huge list of options is what many of us like about Pathfinder. If we wanted a simplistic system we'd be playing 5E.


Yeah! If there where not so many rules, I would have to find a new hobby.

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