Can a Tumor Familiar have a Familiar Archetype?

[shadowkras]

Yes, i know they do not qualify for Improved Familiar because alchemists lack a caster level.

But could you take a Tumor Familiar that has a Familiar Archetype?

I searched for several pages and found no official answer on this.

[Blymurkla]

shadowkras wrote:

Yes, i know they do not qualify for Improved Familiar because alchemists lack a caster level.

That's highly debatable. Lots of people assume an alchemist can take an improved familiar. See for example this thread. There's also this post by James Jacobs that points allowing improved familiar.

shadowkras wrote:

But could you take a Tumor Familiar that has a Familiar Archetype?

I searched for several pages and found no official answer on this.

Is there a reason it wouldn't be possible? Tumor familiars work as familiars, plus some bonus stuff. Nothing indicates that they wouldn't be able to take archetypes as normal familiars.

[shadowkras]

Regardless if it's debatable, there is a FAQ item strictly saying they cannot. This question isnt about Improved Familiar though, we have another thread for that.

[Firebug]

Spell knowledge discovery gives you a spell (not spell like) that you can cast, giving you a caster level. So you can get around the no caster level issue.

I recommend sense vitals, thought it doesn't affect natural weapons. And at higher levels a rod of quicken for it.

[Azten]

shadowkras wrote:

Regardless if it's debatable, there is a FAQ item strictly saying they cannot. This question isnt about Improved Familiar though, we have another thread for that.

For those interested, here is the FAQ saying Tumor Familiars can't be Improved.

I can see allowing familiars archetypes going either way though, even if it just gets limited to different archetypes(Emmisary for the alchemist archetype that gets domains, for example).

[Anonymous Warrior]

Based on what I could find for a build I was working with, I'd say "sure, why not."

Like you said, there's a FAQ that prevents gaining an Improved Familiar via Tumor Familiar.

But a Tumor Familiar advances the same way a regular Familiar does (their master just lacks a caster-level, apparently).

The only precautions I would place on this are:

1. If this is for PFS, this is something you would want to clear where you're playing while you wait for an official ruling.
2. The d20pfsrd specifically references "Animals" on their page, so Ioun Wyrds, Petriferns, and Vermin MIGHT be out.
3. No School = No School Familiars.
4. There is a good deal of debate about what happens with a Tumor Familiar and the Protector archetype.
5. You probably can't have a Mauler remain in battle form while it's inside of you.

[Firebug]

Anonymous Warrior wrote:

5. You probably can't have a Mauler remain in battle form while it's inside of you.

Great, now I want to make a gnome with an attached medium sized tumor familiar battle suit...

[shadowkras]

About JJ's comment, he is going directly against what this FAQ item says, and allowing alchemists to take any magic item crafting feats (Examples: Craft Wand and Craft Wondrous Item).

[Blymurkla]

shadowkras wrote:

Regardless if it's debatable, there is a FAQ item strictly saying they cannot. This question isnt about Improved Familiar though, we have another thread for that.

Huh, I had missed that. My only excuse is that it's a fairly new FAQ, not even a year old. Thanks of the update!

[Melkiador]

The FAQ only says the tumor can't become an improved familiar. But it remains unclear if the familiar from tumor familiar works as a prerequisite to get a non-tumor improved familiar.

[Statboy]

I've allowed Tumor Familiar to have an Archetype and it didn't break the campaign. The PC used it to craft quicker, which is an excellent use IMO

[graystone]

shadowkras wrote:

About JJ's comment, he is going directly against what this FAQ item says, and allowing alchemists to take any magic item crafting feats (Examples: Craft Wand and Craft Wondrous Item).

that FAQ was before the Spell knowledge discovery though. taking that discovery ONCE makes you a true spellcaster/ spellcasting class for all purposes.

As to archetypes, I see no reason they can't take them currently. I didn't see a reason they couldn't be improved either so who knows what the Dev's will rule in the future. So I'd say it's fine now but may change later.

[shadowkras]

There is no reason they cannot take Improved Familiar either, other than a FAQ entry specifically saying so.

[graystone]

shadowkras wrote:

There is no reason they cannot take Improved Familiar either, other than a FAQ entry specifically saying so.

LOL Yes... That's a very good argument for not asking for a FAQ. :P

[DeathRitual#4977]

He is my take on it. "the alchemist can have the tumor detach itself from his body as a separate creature vaguely resembling a kind of animal suitable for a familiar" does not actually specify if it is a animal but rather ' resembling'. So it's hard to use those details to prevent it from being whatever you want it to be. Meanwhile, it is clearly stated to be a familiar in the next line. "The tumor has all the abilities of the animal it resembles (for example, a batlike tumor can fly) and familiar abilities based on the alchemist’s caster level.

The only real issue with this coming into play with a Improved Familiar is the size of the creature rather than it's type. It specifies the size of the tumor is ,"The alchemist creates a Diminutive or Tiny tumor on his body".

Basically, if you can find a familiar that is tiny or Diminutive, then it should in theory work.

[Melkiador]

That’s an outdated discussion. Ultimate Wilderness reprinted the protector familiar to not work with tumor familiars, which implies that archetypes are an option by default.

ultimate wilderness wrote:

Protector familiars are so devoted that they would give their lives for their masters. A tumor familiar can’t be a protector.

It’s still unclear if you can take improved familiar and replace your tumor familiar with a regular improved familiar though.