Ravingdork |
11 people marked this as FAQ candidate. 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
We have rules for pricing Small, Medium, and Large weapons. However, no such rules appear to exist for Fine, Diminutive, Tiny, Huge, Gargantuan, or Colossal weapons.
How does one go about pricing such items? What about other mundane non-weapon items of abnormal size?
Please FAQ if you're as curious as I am.
Garbage-Tier Waifu |
Good question. I remember doing some rough estimates in the past but I could never think of anything concrete. I think I went with x4 for Huge, x8 for Gargantuan and X16 for Colossal. Whether this was accurate is difficult to say and completely academic, since most PC's will not be handling larger weapons except for Titan Fighters and Titan Maulers, and maybe Metamorphs and Summoners.
Now, as for adjusting the price for special materials...well that depends if the special material is factored into the weapons cost as part of it's base. If it is, the it is multiplied along with size increases, but so would the cost for making the weapon masterwork, since a lot of these special materials make the weapon it is made with masterwork and have the masterwork price factored into the material price. If not, it is the same regardless of size. Realism suggests the former, but since the rules make no mention about this, it's probably the latter.
Matthew Downie |
As an aside, how do exotic materials (such as alchemical silver, cold iron, mithral, or adamantine) effect such prices?
Isn't that basically this long-unanswered VFAQ?
Murdock Mudeater |
We have rules for pricing Small, Medium, and Large weapons. However, no such rules appear to exist for Fine, Diminutive, Tiny, Huge, Gargantuan, or Colossal weapons.
How does one go about pricing such items? What about other mundane non-weapon items of abnormal size?
Please FAQ if you're as curious as I am.
Zero official rules exist here. There are two general approaches to in play.
First approach, use the difference between medium and small, and just extent that logic to other items (So small sword is half the weight, same cost, so a tiny sword is a forth the weight, same cost). And so on. Some of the Mundane items have rules for size changes, others do not. Officially, only the ones with listed size changes would be allowed to be bought in smaller sizes (so no Small Alchemist's Flasks).
Second approach, There are no tiny or smaller/huge or larger weapons for sale. Instead, typically improvised weapons are counted as the larger/smaller versions of the normal weapons, so they are not considered improvised. So a Pixie may be armed with a sewing needle (treated as a Rapier or Harpoon) and a Button (Treated as a Buckler).
Depends on the GM's Setting. Neither approach is PFS legal. The only PFS legal approach is treating them as improvised weapons (so just find a mundane object of the right size and ask the GM for an improvised weapon profile).
Regarding special materials, Depends on the wording. If they price by weight, I understand that price to be based on the size of the weapon. Mithril weapons cost 500gp per lb in the weapon, so getting a mithril weapon for a Collosal creature might be impossible. Meanwhile, Adamantine is price per weapon, not how much of the weapon is Adamantine, so those prices do not change on the size of the weapon. In terms of cost justification, you could argue that larger Adamantine pieces feature only certain potions of the weapon actually made of adamantine and that it's easier to work into larger objects than in smaller ones.
Lorewalker |
Ravingdork wrote:We have rules for pricing Small, Medium, and Large weapons. However, no such rules appear to exist for Fine, Diminutive, Tiny, Huge, Gargantuan, or Colossal weapons.
How does one go about pricing such items? What about other mundane non-weapon items of abnormal size?
Please FAQ if you're as curious as I am.
Zero official rules exist here. There are two general approaches to in play.
First approach, use the difference between medium and small, and just extent that logic to other items (So small sword is half the weight, same cost, so a tiny sword is a forth the weight, same cost). And so on. Some of the Mundane items have rules for size changes, others do not. Officially, only the ones with listed size changes would be allowed to be bought in smaller sizes (so no Small Alchemist's Flasks).
Second approach, There are no tiny or smaller/huge or larger weapons for sale. Instead, typically improvised weapons are counted as the larger/smaller versions of the normal weapons, so they are not considered improvised. So a Pixie may be armed with a sewing needle (treated as a Rapier or Harpoon) and a Button (Treated as a Buckler).
Depends on the GM's Setting. Neither approach is PFS legal. The only PFS legal approach is treating them as improvised weapons (so just find a mundane object of the right size and ask the GM for an improvised weapon profile).
For PFS there are three main ways to modify an items size. A spell an enchant and a magic item. Important for anyone wanting to have weapons on their improved familiar.
Ravingdork |
For PFS there are three main ways to modify an items size. A spell an enchant and a magic item. Important for anyone wanting to have weapons on their improved familiar.
Can you name them specifically?
Lorewalker |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Lorewalker wrote:For PFS there are three main ways to modify an items size. A spell an enchant and a magic item. Important for anyone wanting to have weapons on their improved familiar.Can you name them specifically?
Resize Item is a spell that lasts 24 hours and will adjust a weapon or armor up to 2 sizes up or down.
The Resizing weapon enchant always adjusts the weapon to your current size. It only costs gold without adding to the current enhancement.
The Iron Lord's Transforming Slivers will also permanently adjust a metal weapon 1 size category per 1000gp application. You will need to be your intended size when applying the slivers.
Qaianna |
Part of me wants to say that this would be a negotiating point for whoever's stuck making the thing. 'You want me to make you a WHAT-sized greataxe? Get me a 15' hickory pole, grease it up, and shove it up your own--' (smith dragged away by spouse)
Also not sure how Telekinesis would work in that regard. Wouldn't it count as BAB + Int/Cha (based on spell source) to hit, plus proficiency issues? Would size come in there too? Wouldn't another spell work better anyway? I think there's one or two around that level that just make a magic hitting thingy that runs on autopilot.
AntipodeF |
If you were to ask me - I should mention that I don't know the rules for Pathfinder extremely well - I would say it goes like this:
Smaller weapons and armor cost roughly the same. Sure, the cost of materials goes down, but the cost of the labor goes up as it becomes more precise to make smaller and smaller things. A Fine-sized dagger would be the work of a tinker, not a blacksmith, and would be very skilled labor for even a non-masterwork one to have roughly the right balance. Even a Tiny longsword may give a human blacksmith trouble.
(I might even say it costs more to commission a human to craft small equipment, but really, who wants to pay extra for a sword the size of a toothpick?)
Larger weapons cost much much more for every size change. An object or creature that doubles in height increases mass and volume by a factor of 8, so the cost is at least that much more, and I'd expect any ordinary blacksmith would charge extra to build a larger weapon then themselves. (not counting the size difference for a halfling or fairy or some such creature living in a human society.) I'd say.... 1.5 times the cost should be fine.
8 X 1.5 = 12, so for every size category you go up, increase the cost by a factor of 12. Yes, this will quickly get out of hand for low-level parties. If it was your dream to have a well-balanced Colossal Greatsword, you'd better start saving up, cause it'll run you about 1 million gold. (50 X 12 X 12 X 12 X 12 = 1,036,800) Maybe you can pay for it in monthly payments. After all, it's not like it's gonna get built overnight. : P
So that's what I'd call the "realistic" take on it, as far as my understanding of reality goes.
Matthew Downie |
A Fine-sized dagger would be the work of a tinker, not a blacksmith, and would be very skilled labor for even a non-masterwork one to have roughly the right balance. Even a Tiny longsword may give a human blacksmith trouble.
If you want a Tiny longsword, you probably live in a world where Tiny blacksmiths exist.
AntipodeF |
If you want a Tiny longsword, you probably live in a world where Tiny blacksmiths exist.
If you can find an appropriate-sized blacksmith for Tiny or smaller items, then divide the cost of the item by 8 for each size category smaller then Small, since it isn't more skilled labor then it is for a Medium blacksmith to make a Medium item, but the cost of materials still goes down.
EDIT: Unclear, bad grammar. Touching it up.
Murdock Mudeater |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Still hoping for an answer to this.
Everyone talks about using colossal weapon shenanigans (like using telekinesis or something), but no one really knows how much it would cost.
Basically, it would cost as much as it would cost to hire some adventurers to go kill some colossal creature and take their weapons.
Kinda like Ivory, poaching colossal creatures for their weapons...
graystone |
Ravingdork wrote:Still hoping for an answer to this.
Everyone talks about using colossal weapon shenanigans (like using telekinesis or something), but no one really knows how much it would cost.
Basically, it would cost as much as it would cost to hire some adventurers to go kill some colossal creature and take their weapons.
Kinda like Ivory, poaching colossal creatures for their weapons...
This is the way I've always done it. If I want a weapon of that size, I 'borrow' it from a creature of that size.
Zephyre14 |
Hey guys, I just saw this thread exists.
I asked a similar question over in the PFS forums.
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2usdm?Unusual-sized-mundaneslotlessnot-weapon-o r#18
Essentially we didn't get anywhere.
It came up for me because I have my improved familiar rocking UMD and want it to be able to use a scroll of breath of life. Because action economy of it I wanted a spring-loaded wrist sheath to keep the scroll in (which by PFS rules that I know are not universal, but still give some guidance for those outside of it) a scroll can be put in a sprin loaded wrist sheath.
The ensuing mental imagery of a diminutive sized familiar with these items lead me to the forums.
Anybody heard anymore on this topic or are we still twiddling our thumbs up to your GM?