Sorry for the necro but I just encountered this myself and I thought the first post did an excellent job of describing it.

Anyone got some more input and/or clarifications on this?

Also there have been extraordinary effects clarified to be covered under those rules of stacking. See bashing (magical) doesn't stack with spiked (extraordinary).

That FAQ has no impact here is it pertains to actual and effective size increases.

"It depends".

Which is the problem exactly.

Also this FAQ directly handles your menacing question. Two banes don't stack, neither should two menacing.

The last sentence in that FAQ clarifies that Bane should follow the ranger and fighter wording to only have the highest bonus.

Spells that provide bonuses or penalties on attack rolls, damage rolls, saving throws, and other attributes usually do not stack with themselves.

General rule, multiple identical spells don't stack, from that it is deduced that a spell is a "source".

More generally, two bonuses of the same type don't stack even if they come from different spells (or from effects other than spells; see Bonus Types, above).

Typed bonuses do not stack even from different spells. Here another "source" is mentioned, "effects other than spells". What does that encompass?

The important aspect of bonus types is that two bonuses of the same type don't generally stack.

Same as previous, typed bonuses don't stack.

Bonuses without a type always stack, unless they are from the same source.

And here we have that bonuses without a type (therefore being untyped) always stack, unless they originate from the same "source".

No where else in the entire Magic section is the term "source" clarified to be more than spells and "effects other than spells".

Do note that the "effects other than spells" is a continuation of the typed bonuses section, not a general statement.
This is the actual rule that two competence bonuses do not stack, no matter where they come from due to the "effects other than spells".

Remaining is only the untyped bonus section and the statement "unless they are from the same source". The closest you get to a "source" is the wording from the first quote: spells.
"Effects other than spells" are not mentioned for untyped bonuses, it is only for typed bonuses.

There is no actual explanation of what a "source" is which has necessitated the two FAQs to explain two circumstances, but what about all other circumstances?

To boil it to the most simple I can:
What constitutes a "source"?

It's why we have FAQ on untyped ability bonuses.

So here they clarified that an Ability Score bonus to a roll counts as a source. The other FAQ clarifies that the same effect (virtual size increase) is the same source.

Untyped is still a typed bonus.

Untyped is specifically not typed and stacks with all untyped bonuses, except same source.

What I want an official answer to is whether enchantments and magic items counts as sources.

What if two different allies use Menacing, again one of them would be void as the source is Menacing and conferred on all flanking allies, but invest in basically anything else and it works perfectly fine.

Okay, an example that should work:
What about an Anchoring Weapon that has Levitate cast on it?
Anchoring lists levitate as a construction spell but the spells have different effects.

I just don't get why two items conferring the same untyped bonus wouldn't stack. You invest the resources, the limitations are clearly stated in the descriptions and logically they should. Brandishing two Menacing weapons should be extra menacing, not irrelevant.

Two different ring-imbued different feats are independent.

So you agree that typed bonuses do not stack (evident) and that the feats are independent. Now the big question, what about the untyped bonus?

An important thing to understand is that spells required for a magic item are not really an indicator of effect at all.

I tried to use the example as a way of distinguishing sources. A better example would be, what happens if you cast Bull's Strength on the weapon if it were a viable target? It is now the same spell, like the FAQ, but different effects.

Anyways, I tried to ramble about spell, magic items and sources so you might understand where the question comes from.
Too often I find that tables rule against "stacking" items/effects, even in PFS which is one of the reasons I ask here.

This has also happened in a game where we had a Hunter dual-wielding Menacing and had the flanking feats with his companions he used as mount. It was ruled against him and that has sparked my hunt for an official clarification as I feel to much is lost in "it won't stack, it's the same source" while being different items giving untyped bonuses.

So a character investing in two +1 Agile Flaming weapons get 1*Dex+1d6 / 0.5*Dex+1d6 but investing in two +1 Benevolent Menacing weapons makes one of them literally worthless as they now affect the wielder and not the weapon?

This has been somewhat clarified before but I feel that it left something out.
I will use italics as reference to sections, paragraphs and sentences on the online prd.

The FAQ states that for the purposes of a single weapon, the enchantment Impact and Lead Blades do not stack, as the item is essentially under a permanent Lead Blades spell.
Core -> Magic -> Combining Magic Effects -> Same effect more than once in differing strengths

But what if there are multiple magical items that all use the same spell on the same wearer?
Let us reuse Impact from before, what if the wielder of an Impact weapon becomes the target of a Bull's Strength?
As the spell does not target the weapon but the wielder, you gain both bonuses. (I have never heard of it not been done this way). This means that magical items with a required spell does not infer that the wielder is under the spell as well for it to work.

Then what happens when you dual wield two Menacing weapons?
Following the previous question, it should stack as it is not the wielder that is under the effect of the spells but each item is subject to its own spell, and then the items each grant untyped bonuses, which should stack as per Core -> Magic -> Special Spell Effects -> Bonus Types -> last sentence but what I always encounter is GMs saying they would not stack "as they are the same source". But are they? It is two different weapons, which could have different enchantments and both having Menacing, the creation spell is not not inferred on the wielder so the sources are two different objects, both providing untyped bonuses.

Then what happens with identical items?
Would the previous weapons no longer stack if they are identically enchanted due to the "same source" part or do they not stack at all as the enchantment on the weapon actually does infer something on the wielder disallowing this?

What about two Rings of Tactical Precision? They both provide untyped bonuses, if the spell is not inferred on the player than they should stack but again most rule they do not. Why not? They are different objects, providing untyped bonuses to the wielder.

What I am looking for an official answer to is:
What counts as a "source" for the purposes of stacking?
Does an enchantment count the enchantment as a source for the wielder or only the object?
In extension: What about magical items, they are not spells but objects under a spell like the previous enchantments, is the item now a source for the wielder?

What I would expect:
Lead Blades and Impact do not stack as the enchantment is considered a source of an identical spell on the object. The enchantment is counted as a source for the object and not the wielder. Casting Bull's Strength on the wielder works normally as the enchantment does not infer the spell on the wielder, therefore it would be two Bull's Strengths affecting different targets (like Mass Bull's Strength).

Two Menacing weapons would stack due to the previous logic, the enchantment is a source for the object, not the wielder, and therefore using two of them would stack as they are untyped bonuses.

Two Rings of Tactical Precision would stack, again due to the previous logic, it is the rings that are the target of the spells, not the wielder and it should therefore stack, again due to untyped bonuses.

In any of the previous expectations where changed to a typed bonus, then all of them would not stack as you only take the highest bonus for a given type. The bonus to Profession (Soldier) from the rings would not stack as they are the same type.

1: It would be Int * 4 total, you add a static bonus equal to twice your Int, it is not a multiplication effect like critical hits, lances or spirited charge.

2: No, as per FAQ http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fm#v5748eaic9sgk

I agree that the wording needs some work as several have pointed out, it contradicts core rules and is just plain funky.

With the newest FAQ about item size pricing it would be nice to finally get rules for weapons, equipment and gear of weird sizes.
There is even a table for the damage of tiny weapons but no rules on getting them (besides magic).

Have received another opinion:
Transmutation, not Polymorph, and no gear resizing as it lacks the text (like what is written in Reduce Person) and is not a Polymorph effect.

With the missing rules around smaller than small sized gear (except armor and Wondrous items), that would be sad.

Reduce person seems to be the most similar spell effect. It's a Transmutation spell, but doesn't have the (polymorph) descriptor. I'm not sure what I can add to that.

Apparently I have gotten my facts wrong O.o, was so sure that Reduce/Enlarge Person had the Polymorph descriptor to negate stacking. Instead they have most of the text from the Polymorph subschool listed in the description (gear resizing, stacking etc.), which is why I have been so confused...

Second person mentioned has later clarified that he, personally, would for all intents and purposes count it as Reduce Person (Transmutation (Polymorph)).

Disregarding the (Polymorph), would you agree with this interpretation then?

The wielder isn't deliberately targeting the object,

Wait, you would rule it is as a random obejct within range, even if most other abilities specify targeting?

Edit: I guess I just have a hard time of seeing it as a pure Transmutation when all other effects that changes your shape or size is a Polymorph effect.

Ignore this, need to get my facts straight next time.

Starglim, can you expand on your comparison to Reduce Person?

Second person mentioned has later clarified that he, personally, would for all intents and purposes count it as Reduce Person (Transmutation (Polymorph)).

Edit: I guess I just have a hard time of seeing it as a pure Transmutation when all other effects that changes your shape or size is a Polymorph effect.

Ah, thank you Nefreet.

Was looking for a solid enough ruling for PFS which was why I posted it here.

Hello all,

I recently saw a discussion regarding the Rod of Wonder's reduce size:

66–69 Reduce wielder two size categories (no save) for 1 day.

What magic school (if any) does this effect belong to?

• One I asked said that he would take it as pure Transmutation and apply the reverse of the Ability Score modification listed in the "Size Changes" table in the Magic section.
  
• Another just mentioned Transmutation without any further information.

Second, what is the range of the:

63–65 Any nonliving object of up to 1,000 pounds of mass and up to 30 cubic feet in size turns ethereal.

Would like to "open" doors and not kill myself doing it xD

Thanks =)

Been too lax in my forum fu.

Thank you all for your input.

Been to lax on my forum fu.

Thank you all for your input.

Has there been any official declarations regarding this?

I seem to find myself in the same position of wanting to use Aid Another while Fighting Defensively.
It seems like it would be in the spirit of the rules to allow Fighting Defensively on other Standard Action attacks like it is allowed for Full Attack Actions.
Whether it would count for Aid Another depends on whether it's attack roll qualifies it as an attack.

Do you have a source on that? I found the FAQ on UC Rogue's Finesse but nothing regarding Agile, and Agile itself does not limit natural attacks.

Hello everyone,

As per the title, how would a single natural attack interact with an Agile Amulet of Mighty Fists?

Agile, per RAW, only has exceptions for two-handed and off-handed attacks, and I can't seem to find a FAQ/Errata/clarification regarding this issue.

Thanks

Hello everyone

This is gonna be a simple and complex one.

Feral Combat Training allows a monk to use a Natural Attack with his Flurry of Blows.

The FAQ for FCT states: "Feral Combat Training allows you to use the selected natural attack as if it were a monk weapon (snip)".

Brawler's Martial Training states: "She also counts as both a fighter and a monk for feats and magic items that have different effects based on whether the character has levels in those classes (snip)".

Brawler's Flurry states: "(snip) or weapons with the "monk" special feature. She does not need to use two different weapons to use this ability. (snip)".

Will this combination allow me to use a natural attack with my Brawler's Flurry?

If not, is there anyway that I can gain the Brawler's Flurry for my Natural Attack?

Thanks