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In previous editions of D&D, mindless meant mindless -- no intelligence and usually no charisma checks of any kind. With Pathfinder, it seems mindless is not so mindless after all, making "INT --" mean that they have the equivalent of a +0 modifier and can now make INT-based checks.
So ... a zombie can now make an untrained geography check to realize it's in Kintargo and then a local check to "remember" that the Kintargo opera house isn't far away? It can use tools to craft spoons and iron pots with an untrained crafting check? It knows the difference between the Ulfen warrior it just slaughtered and the Varisian necromancer it considers a master?
By appearances, they now have access to the same bank of knowledge that any common human does, and are theoretically better at it than some portion of them! Play "Deity Symbol Flash Cards" between Hubert the commoner and his local friendly skeleton, and the skeleton will win at least as often as it loses. Right?
Is this really how mindless works in Pathfinder? Am I missing something important here?
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No, I think you're right.
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I would rule "INT --" to mean it can not interact with anything that requires an INT based check.
That's how I (and others I know) have ruled it for literally decades, but the ability score section for Intelligence reads: "Some creatures do not possess an Intelligence score. Their modifier is +0 for any Intelligence-based skills or checks."
That suggests they can use INT-based skills and checks.
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Good to know to cast Maze on mindless creatures.
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Mindless: No Intelligence score, and immunity to all mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, morale effects, patterns, and phantasms). Mindless creatures have no feats or skills.To not have skills means they can not use them as they are not present to be rolled at all.
Do you argue that they can't make climb, swim or stealth checks as well?
Do you argue that they can't make climb, swim or stealth checks as well?Mindless: No Intelligence score, and immunity to all mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, morale effects, patterns, and phantasms). Mindless creatures have no feats or skills.
To not have skills means they can not use them as they are not present to be rolled at all.
Yup. though swim comes with a caveat that a lot of them can just sort of... meander... through water. i would rule though that they are likely to get carried off by currents and eventually bashed to pieces under water but that doesnt stop them from going in after swimmers/floaters.
EDIT: also, the idea of a mindless shambler all of a sudden climbing up a rope after the party using proper foot pinching techniques is both really funny and immersion breaking :)
Interesting.
I guess the point is that that sort of relentless pursuit is reserved for higher-CR undead who DO have Int scores.
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Yup. though swim comes with a caveat that a lot of them can just sort of... meander... through water. i would rule though that they are likely to get carried off by currents and eventually bashed to pieces under water but that doesnt stop them from going in after swimmers/floaters.EDIT: also, the idea of a mindless shambler all of a sudden climbing up a rope after the party using proper foot pinching techniques is both really funny and immersion breaking :)
Though I've never (and probably would never) rule it that way, it's an interesting argument. However, I don't think it jives with the text for undead, or even more specific mindless-undead templates. The undead type states:
"Many undead, however, are mindless and gain no skill points or feats."
This is different than having no skills, and no access to skills. Going further down to a specific example, the skeleton template reads:
"A skeleton loses all skill ranks possessed by the base creature and gains none of its own."
What they lose are skill ranks, not really skills. And, given that creatures with an "INT --" apparently can make INT-based checks with a +0 modifier, it also counteracts the idea for skills that have traditionally been off-limits to mindless creatures.
I will point out that your text DOES read this way for vermin, so it would sensibly nix the idea that a giant spider can make the sorts of checks I outlined in the original question post. Mindless is actually described different for the types of monsters where they apply.
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An interesting approach, first time seeing it.
Now, when I read the text for the first time I imagined that it's a kind of... countermeasure, to avoid making mindless undeads garbage.
Let's just asume that a Necromancer commands his army of zombies to attack a village, and that same village has a hanging bridge over a chasm. One could imagine that they are "mindless but not idiots", so instead of falling into a certain destruction they use the bridge instead. That doesn't mean that they can imagine for a second that the two men on the other side of the bridge will cut off the bridge the moment they start crossing it.
It that same village have a river instead of a chasm then the army will simply go through, some walking on the bridge and others into the water since they don't need to breathe to begin with.
Simply put, the way I see'em is that they are "intelligent" enough to avoid certain damage/destruction.
Edited// Or to pull a lever that activates a trap if the same Necromancer commands it by voice, as another example of "clever enough" actions.
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My trickster side likes this.
Some creatures do not possess an Intelligence score. Their modifier is +0 for any Intelligence-based skills or checks.
I can see the Cleric arguing with the Necromancer about the now animated corpse of the party fighter, "OK, I'll admit that he isn't acting as stupid as he used to, but still...."
Going from rather stupid, (Int 6-9) to non-intelligent (Int 0) should not be a step up. Oh and the language does pretty much say that the zombie can have skills, which many of the zombie slave-labor concepts rely on.
Just keep in mind you can't use knowledge untrained if the DC is higher than 10. What is the DC to know what city you are in? What about knowing where the Opera House is?
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Just keep in mind you can't use knowledge untrained if the DC is higher than 10. What is the DC to know what city you are in? What about knowing where the Opera House is?
"Know local laws, rulers, and popular locations" is listed as a DC 10 Local check. Presumably that would be enough to recognize a fixture as popular as the Kintargo opera house.
I have to imagine it's a low Geography DC -- maybe even just a DC 5 -- to know what city you are in at the moment. Even if we consider it a DC 10, that means all mindless undead would know but some ignorant humans wouldn't.
"Know location of nearest community" is a DC 20, by contrast, so neither the commoner nor the skeleton would know where Vyre or Nisroch is actually located but it's probably just a DC 10 or so just to know they exist at all. Skeleton still wins.
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I think a knowledge skill check is pointless for a mindless creature. It can make the check technically, but it can't actually know the answer, because it has no consciousness or ability to know anything.
This how many angels on the head of a pin territory.
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This how many angels on the head of a pin territory.
We have several pages of houserules on that.
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I think a knowledge skill check is pointless for a mindless creature. It can make the check technically, but it can't actually know the answer, because it has no consciousness or ability to know anything.
How about as relates to commands?
"Attack the Kintargo Opera House!" (Local DC 10)
"Guard against anyone unless they wear Zon-Kuthon's symbol!" (Religion DC 10)
"Kill Baron Lessmind and those with his crest!" (Nobility DC 10)
"Attack all Shoanti who enter the cave!" (Geography DC 10)
Nah, it has to be something they see.
Where this matters is intelligence checks like a Maze, where random no intelligence no mind shuffling might be more effective than dumb thoughtful attempts that think themselves back in the same corner.
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I would rule "INT --" to mean it can not interact with anything that requires an INT based check.That's how I (and others I know) have ruled it for literally decades, but the ability score section for Intelligence reads: "Some creatures do not possess an Intelligence score. Their modifier is +0 for any Intelligence-based skills or checks."
That suggests they can use INT-based skills and checks.
Fair enough, but as a counter point:
Mindless: No Intelligence score, and immunity to all mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, morale effects, patterns, and phantasms). Mindless creatures have no feats or skills.
To not have skills means they can not use them as they are not present to be rolled at all.
This can be definitively disproven.
Bestiary 1: Black Pudding, Cave Fisher, Giant Centipede, Centipede Swarm, Giant Crab.....list continues.All have skill bonuses, just no ranks in any skill.
Having no ranks due to no intelligence does not mean they cannot make skill checks.
While I agree that making an intelligence based skill check does not make sense for a mindless creature there are a number of Pathfinder rules that do not make sense.
Add one more to the list, houserule as you see fit.
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How many spells are there that could give our sample non-intelligent undead effective skill levels or bonuses? We know the can't have ranks of their own, so how does the clever Necromancer get around it? Maybe this will add something to the discussion.
Honestly, I think the whole idea of a non intelligent entity being an effective active anything is a bit ridiculous.
The descriptions of both skeletons and zombies have actions that are allowed in their description despite being mindless. This would seem to imply that this is all they are allowed to do. In the case of skeletons they can wield weapons and wear armor. Zombies mill about in search of living creatures to slaughter and devour.
If they were capable of more why would these actions be mentioned?
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Mindless means they have no agency. They cannot take actions that require foreknowledge, training, memory or thought.
That said, mindless doesn't mean unaware and it doesn't mean stupid.
Ants and bees are capable of complex coordination within swarms. Skeletons are capable of recognizing which end of a sword to hold. Oozes know the differences between things that are alive and things that aren't.
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How many spells are there that could give our sample non-intelligent undead effective skill levels or bonuses? We know the can't have ranks of their own, so how does the clever Necromancer get around it? Maybe this will add something to the discussion.
There's at least one: Skeleton Crew.
Honestly, I think the whole idea of a non intelligent entity being an effective active anything is a bit ridiculous.
I have to agree. I think the Animate Dead and Command Undead spells outline the typical limits for what a necromancer can get out of them, while wild, uncontrolled ones are entirely rabid. And that's the extent of it.
The descriptions of both skeletons and zombies have actions that are allowed in their description despite being mindless. This would seem to imply that this is all they are allowed to do. In the case of skeletons they can wield weapons and wear armor. Zombies mill about in search of living creatures to slaughter and devour.
If they were capable of more why would these actions be mentioned?
That's a good question.
My resident necromancer argues that they can and do have a broader range of actions than described in the creature and related spell descriptions, pointing to large-scale farming by undead in Geb, as well as the undead "house slaves" commonly found in the nobles' manors.
She argues that these examples demonstrate that mindless undead must be capable of more than the basic commands listed or it would be neither possible nor desirable for those situations to arise--not if the mindless need unending micromanagement to succeed. The fact that they can make INT-based checks is part of the foundation for her claims.
Zombie
Zombies are unthinking automatons, and can do little more than follow orders. When left unattended, zombies tend to mill about in search of living creatures to slaughter and devour. Zombies attack until destroyed, having no regard for their own safety.
Although capable of following orders, zombies are more often unleashed into an area with no command other than to kill living creatures. As a result, zombies are often encountered in packs, wandering around places the living frequent, looking for victims. Most zombies are created using animate dead. Such zombies are always of the standard type, unless the creator also casts haste or remove paralysis to create fast zombies, or contagion to create plague zombies.
Skeleton
Skeletons are the animated bones of the dead, brought to unlife through foul magic. While most skeletons are mindless automatons, they still possess an evil cunning imparted to them by their animating force—a cunning that allows them to wield weapons and wear armor.
Skeletal Champion
Some skeletons retain their intelligence and cunning, making them formidable warriors. These undead are far more powerful than their mindless kin, and many gain class levels.
Skeletons and Zombies are mindless so are not much use for work. Zombies can follow orders so they will work as field slaves as long as they have an overseer. Skeletal Champions and Zombie Lords would work for overseers and house slaves as well as anything that requires skills.
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How many spells are there that could give our sample non-intelligent undead effective skill levels or bonuses? We know the can't have ranks of their own, so how does the clever Necromancer get around it? Maybe this will add something to the discussion.There's at least one: Skeleton Crew.
Honestly, I think the whole idea of a non intelligent entity being an effective active anything is a bit ridiculous.I have to agree. I think the Animate Dead and Command Undead spells outline the typical limits for what a necromancer can get out of them, while wild, uncontrolled ones are entirely rabid. And that's the extent of it.
The descriptions of both skeletons and zombies have actions that are allowed in their description despite being mindless. This would seem to imply that this is all they are allowed to do. In the case of skeletons they can wield weapons and wear armor. Zombies mill about in search of living creatures to slaughter and devour.
If they were capable of more why would these actions be mentioned?
That's a good question.
My resident necromancer argues that they can and do have a broader range of actions than described in the creature and related spell descriptions, pointing to large-scale farming by undead in Geb, as well as the undead "house slaves" commonly found in the nobles' manors.
She argues that these examples demonstrate that mindless undead must be capable of more than the basic commands listed or it would be neither possible nor desirable for those situations to arise--not if the mindless need unending micromanagement to succeed. The fact that they can make INT-based checks is part of the foundation for her claims.
The Unseen Servant has a bit of information about what a mindless commanded creature can do. Honestly I think that she is somewhat right and should be allowed to "flavour" her undeads that way if it doesn't affect the major course of the game.
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Skeletons and Zombies are mindless so are not much use for work. Zombies can follow orders so they will work as field slaves as long as they have an overseer. Skeletal Champions and Zombie Lords would work for overseers and house slaves as well as anything that requires skills.
My argument falls along that lines as well (though for both skeletons and zombies), but she believes that position demands an unreasonable number of intelligent undead as overseers, so far as Geb's example is concerned.
The Unseen Servant has a bit of information about what a mindless commanded creature can do. Honestly I think that she is somewhat right and should be allowed...
Unseen servant is a magical force rather than a creature, which is why it's noted as mindless so caster's don't get any bright ideas as to its capability. Its entire purpose is to do tasks of the sort we're considering but it has no cunning, no persistence and no separation from the caster -- it's her magic incarnate, cleaning the pots and pans.
So far as it goes, Unseen Servant's effect is closer to the result of the Skeleton Crew spell than the zombies and skeletons of Animate Dead. And Skeleton Crew is a peculiar example that seems to break the normal rule for mindless undead out of fluff reasons.
All the same, I intend to relax my stance somewhat, but I have to laugh that she thinks it preposterous to play a necromancer the way the rules were written before Pathfinder! Zombies that can't make INT checks! That's C-R-A-Z-Y!.
And for the record, here is the 3.5 description for mindless creatures:
"Any creature that can think, learn, or remember has at least 1 point of Intelligence. A creature with no Intelligence score is mindless, an automaton operating on simple instincts or programmed instructions. It has immunity to mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, phantasms, patterns, and morale effects) and automatically fails Intelligence checks."
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I think I get your point. If she says to a skeleton: grab this broom and clean the floor, the said skeleton will be doing the same thing over and over on the same square.
If she wants the floor propperly clean, she needs Unseen Servant spell.
And if she wants a whole bunch of bones to do her chores and cultivate the land then she needs something like the Skeleton Crew spell.
I don't know what she exactly intents to do with those mindless servants, but if it don't have any impact on the game and it's just for flavour, just sitting and laughing at the scene seems a fair stance.
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The actions that should definitely be excluded would be any that involve speaking or are "trained only" skill uses. In the case of zombies, you should also exclude any action that cannot be performed by a staggered creature.
So diplomacy is definitely out, but acrobatics would be questionable and climbing should be allowed (as a horde of climbing zombies is too cool a visual to pass up).
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i suppose i draw a difference between a thing not having ranks in a skill and not having the skill at all to have ranks in. But it also could just be a word choice used for the entry based on assumptions of the writer or an editing bit introduced later in the process. You are right though, my zombies are not able to even attempt climbing or acrobatics or courtly diplomacy.I would rule "INT --" to mean it can not interact with anything that requires an INT based check.That's how I (and others I know) have ruled it for literally decades, but the ability score section for Intelligence reads: "Some creatures do not possess an Intelligence score. Their modifier is +0 for any Intelligence-based skills or checks."
That suggests they can use INT-based skills and checks.
Fair enough, but as a counter point:
Mindless: No Intelligence score, and immunity to all mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, morale effects, patterns, and phantasms). Mindless creatures have no feats or skills.
To not have skills means they can not use them as they are not present to be rolled at all.
This can be definitively disproven.
Bestiary 1: Black Pudding, Cave Fisher, Giant Centipede, Centipede Swarm, Giant Crab.....list continues.
All have skill bonuses, just no ranks in any skill.Having no ranks due to no intelligence does not mean they cannot make skill checks.
While I agree that making an intelligence based skill check does not make sense for a mindless creature there are a number of Pathfinder rules that do not make sense.
Add one more to the list, houserule as you see fit.
The wording says 'no feats or skills' but really means 'no feats or skill ranks' as indicated by the various creatures that are mindless and yet have skills.
The rules are against you on this one.
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The only thing that makes any sense in this that non-intelligence has to mean an intelligence that is so alien that we have no real points of interaction and any overlap do not really make a lot of sense, and in the case of undead, even to necromancers, but even less so to the rest of us. Viruses only act with intelligence on a macro-scale, but if you talk to any decent virologist, there is strategy and counterstrategy there.
EDIT
Do zombies crave brains because they want some sort of translator for a world that is nonsensical to them?
Why would it require a lot of overseer’s? One overseer could easily control a hundred undead. For a lot of jobs they don’t require any directions once the initial orders are given. The only time you need a overseer is when the task may change and they need to be told what to do next. Undead powering a mill for example will never need new orders unless you want the mill to stop for some reason.
If the task can be performed by a machine chances are an undead will be able to handle it without any trouble. They would be useful for performing repetitive tasks that do not require a lot of skill or judgement. Assembly line work would be perfect for them. Individually they cannot build anything, but each one can do a specific job and collectively they can actually build things. This does require giving each undead specific instruction on what to do and how to do it, but once given they continue to follow them.
Geb may be the most industrially advance country on Golarion.
i could see a mindless undead make a craft skill but that would be the only int based skill i could see them use
Badly.
How about borrowing the AC rule for objects without a Dex score as a houserule? Make it...
"Some creatures do not possess an Intelligence score. Their modifier is -5 for any Intelligence-based skills or checks."
I know, I should run over to Homebrew now.
Why would it require a lot of overseer’s? One overseer could easily control a hundred undead.
OK, this isn't my strong area, but doesnt it require a Necromancer, able to control 5 HD of undead per level, need to be 20th level to control 100 1 HD undead?
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Thanks Lady J,
Necromancy really isn't my strong suit.
Is there any reason a necromancer cannot give orders to his undead to obey another? They are still technically under the control of the original creator but now take orders from the overseer. You could even have multiple necromancers creating undead and having them run by a single overseer. If the original necromancer decided he wanted them to do something else they would of course obey him
If you use the 4 HD per level limitation Geb would have a hard time functioning. This would mean that each necromancer has to personally supervise all his undead. That would mean the necromancer is out in the field or the factory instead of studying magic. This is not how I picture Geb being run. I picture Geb being kind of like the south before the civil war except instead of living slaves they use undead. Since many of the “Masters” are undead that cannot stand sunlight that means they have to have some way of delegating orders or their minions cannot work during the day. Considering one of the principle exports of Geb is supposed to be agriculture this is a problem.
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Is there any reason a necromancer cannot give orders to his undead to obey another?
In the Black Markets supplement, where undead slaves are described, it provides the following:
"A standard human zombie costs about 90 gp, while a skeleton costs 45 gp, although most necromancers charge an additional fee of 50 to 100 gp to provide a body, and purchasers are expected to provide their own means of controlling their shambling laborers. "
That suggests that "giving control" to another as a verbal order is dangerously unreliable if not untenable.
If you use the 4 HD per level limitation Geb would have a hard time functioning. This would mean that each necromancer has to personally supervise all his undead. That would mean the necromancer is out in the field or the factory instead of studying magic. This is not how I picture Geb being run. I picture Geb being kind of like the south before the civil war except instead of living slaves they use undead. Since many of the “Masters” are undead that cannot stand sunlight that means they have to have some way of delegating orders or their minions cannot work during the day. Considering one of the principle exports of Geb is supposed to be agriculture this is a problem.
I think it more likely that there are numerous intelligent undead serving as taskmasters, most being skeletal champions or zombie lords, working to drive packs of 5 to 15 mindless undead and interceding to complete tasks that the mindless wouldn't be expected capable of doing well, or at all. These intelligent undead probably have magical devices that grant control over their pack, and an overseer (living or dead) directs the numerous packs through these taskmasters.
My necromancer and I argued a bit about what sort of tasks a zombie could accomplish -- for example, can they plant seeds without oversight? I suggested that the intelligent taskmasters might step in to do the work, relegating the mindless as muscle for jobs they could do reliably, such as pulling ploughs and harrows, pushing mill wheels, and so on.
She rebelled at the idea that there could or would be so many champions or lords in the fields and thinks the mindless are capable of handling tasks an untrained laborer could be put to use doing.
Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be much material regarding how the farms in Geb work or are staffed, and my necromancer scoffs when I don't accept her arguments of greater autonomy in the mindless by pointing out that we just don't know what is envisioned for the farming there. That said, I do function on a mindset of mindless undead being, well, actually mindless, whereas she sees them as having a degree of mental understanding based on the contrasting definition for mindless found in Pathfinder.
Needless to say, she's not interested in farming but in giving more sophisticated tactical orders to her minions. I am going to bend here, but with the compromise that commanding or tasking mindless undead requires a related Profession (undead x) skill to manage them with efficiency beyond the most basic orders described in the related spells. So, should she decide to take up farming, she'll need Profession (undead farmer) to get the most out of her undead slaves.
I was thinking more along the lines of the necromancer giving a series of orders and the overseer being able to activate them. Kind of like how computer programs use variables. For example an order could be plow the field the overseer tells you too. Or pick the fruit from the tree the overseer tells you to. This would allow the overseer to move the undead slave to the next target when the current task was completed. The directions would probably have to be a lot more complete then the examples I gave but you get the general idea.
Basically undead are untrained helpers so they can do a lot of the work, but require a lot of supervision.
Well mindless is a game term, it does not mean truly mindless. For example all vermin type creatures are mindless and from our world we can clearly see that is not the case.
We can agree that whatever capacity vermin have, it doesn't include rational, contemplative, meditative thought, which is generally what is meant when we're describing a mind. So, vermin are aware and instinctive but not intelligent and cogitating--they are mindless.
Also, an command word command undead is () 10,800 gold. Now, this seems like a lot of money, and it is, but consider that command undead at-will would enable you to, say (over 10 hours) acquire () 6,000 individual creatures, which ~> roughly 24,000 HD of undead.
That control will last for three days, but can be renewed at will, and the undead don't wear out, and don't die.
On the other hand, consider 6,000 hard-labor slaves, and you get () 600,000 gold.
This permits many more workers that last forever and only have a singular upfront cost at 1/55th the cost of normal slaves, and almost zero non-command upkeep (so... not much more than normal slaves, and probably less, as they never rebel).
Now: to be fair, zombie slaves cost () 165 gold each, or about 65g more, i.e. 990,000 gold... however, consider that is a "one time" cost, which is compared to a slave's upkeep, which is probably a Poor lifestyle (Destitute burns them out very, very quickly) means 3 gold/month. That means () 18,000 gold each month, or 216,000 gold per year. Presupposing a solid 5 years of hard labor, that's 1,080,000 gold over a lifetime.
So... 1,080,000 gold plus 600,000 gold = 1,680,000 gold for living creatures over five years. This does not include housing or buildings necessary to keep your creatures alive for that long.
Compared to 10,800 gold plus 990,000 gold = 1,000,800 gold for undead creatures over all the years. Zombies and skeletons need no particular shelter or other needs, though, of course, you can, as it probably makes them less nasty. Either way, you don't need to make sure they have anything akin to comfort - just shove 'em in a large empty warehouse somewhere.
In any event, you've a 679,200 gold within a presumed five year span.
Note, you probably don't want a singular overseer to have control over all those undead, but you can simply play "pass the item" to multiple overseers. It's worth noting, you can probably even establish the "magic item" as a kind of location where an overseer stands, checks in with his mindless undead every other day on a strict schedule, and then moves on with them.
This probably makes you take double the length of time, of course, so about 20 hours every other day, over all, for that volume of undead. But that volume can actually work for all 48 hours (probably 36 hours, with a planned 12 hour "processing time" built into the schedule for sheer logistics; this is almost certainly not necessary).
Normal slaves could probably be forced to work hard labor for 8-16 hours a day, but probably no more than 12 hours, before requiring about 8 hours of rest. So, within 48 hours, they could get 12^+8+12^+8+8^ = 32/48 hours, on a "good" day - more realistically, it's going to be less than that. Either way, you get four more hours per 48 for the undead, and that's presuming an extraordinarily generous 12-hour processing time to handle the logistics, and presuming the human laborers never get sick, and never collapse, and are given a terrible lifestyle/have food paid for (they get a looooot less work done, if they have to pay for their own food).
So:
- cheaper
- easier to control
- more work per time period
That's a lot of advantages! Don't know what I'm going for, but I figured that's a neat thing to point out.
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Undead may be tireless workers, but the do wear out due to minor injuries since they don't heal on their own, Yes, they can be repaired with negative energy, but that will add maintenance costs to your balance sheets.
Midnight Anarch did pull out the answer to how an undead work force is at least doable.
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PFS Legal Skeleton Crew
Source Pirates of the Inner Sea pg. 29 (Amazon)
School necromancy; Level arcanist 4, cleric/oracle 3, sorcerer/wizard 4, summoner 4, summoner (unchained) 4, warpriest 3, witch 4
Casting
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S, M
Effect
Range touch
Targets one or more humanoid corpses touched
Duration 1 day/level
Saving Throw none; Spell Resistance no
Description
This spell turns corpses into skeletons (Pathfinder RPG Bestiary 250) that act as crew and obey your commands to the extent of their abilities.
The undead you create are 1 Hit Die skeletons that possess Profession (sailor) scores equal to half your character level plus your Wisdom modifier (for clerics), Intelligence modifier (for witches and wizards), or Charisma modifier (for sorcerers and summoners). Each skeleton can perform the duties of one crew member but has no other abilities. The created skeletons cannot speak, attack, or even defend themselves. The only orders they obey are ones pertaining to the operation of a ship. Skeletal crew members are not proficient with any weapons or armor.
You can’t create more Hit Dice of skeletal crew members than twice your caster level with a single casting of skeleton crew. The desecrate spell doubles this limit.
The undead you create by casting skeleton crew remain under your control for the duration of the spell, and do not count against your limit of total Hit Dice worth of undead creatures you can control.
A skeletal crew member can only be created from a mostly intact humanoid corpse. The corpse must have bones. When you cast this spell, any flesh left on the corpses melts away into fog.
I rather suspect Geb Necromancers have spell's like Summon Zombie Work Crew, Summon Skeleton Staff and rather a lot of specialized spell's. Since these crews don't add to the max HD total and effectively have Profession(whatever), control is less of an issue. Their lack of combat ability is actually a plus, since they are safer that way.
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Midnight Anarch, I feel for you, since this is apparently not a theoretical discussion but a "how do I keep my player from taking over my game" discussion. What did you think of my Int mod of -5 proposal?