
Inlaa |
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Come on, let's build a slinger! A halfling slinger, specifically.
I'm looking for ideas on how to build a great one. I'm considering different routes, like just playing a paladin or bard instead of a fighter-type, but I'd really like to build a fighter anyway. I'll start with that, and eventually will examine a paladin build too (since that's probably pretty legit).
Open the spoiler to see my thought process. Do note: I know the bow will always be the superior choice, but this is a really fun thought experiment.
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Halflings are experts at the use of the sling. Halflings with this racial trait can reload a sling as a free action. Reloading a sling still requires two hands and provokes attacks of opportunity. This racial trait replaces sure-footed.
However, we have means of expanding the Warslinger trait's impact to other kinds of slings (thus meaning relatively painless access to full attacks). Giving it some thought, I'm willing to assume the best routes will be either...
A) The double sling, which requires two-weapon fighting to properly utilize, or,
B) The staff sling, which does not require that and has a d6 of damage for small creatures (versus d3).
Given that, let's examine some of the problems we are going to face.
1. Slings are STR-based for damage, and we have a penalty to Strength. Crap.
2. There IS a feat tax involved in applying Warslinger to other weapons. Thankfully, this will turn out to be a feat tax we want anyway.
3. In general, this will be a feat-intensive build, as with archery, and we're going to face similar problems to archers.
4. Our base weapon damage is crap. We can enjoy 1d3 from the double sling with a whopping x2 crit. Yay. Alternatively, we can use the 1d6 from the staff sling with a x3 crit. That's a little more satisfying.
5. By the way, take a look at how much sling stones weigh. Yes, ten sling stones = 5 pounds for a medium sized creature, or 2.5 pounds for us. That's compared to 20 arrows weighing 1.5 pounds for small creatures. Yikes. Carrying capacity will hurt.[/i]
Given all that, I've opted to go with the Sling Staff.
There are other problems; these are just a few that we face. However, I feel these are going to be extremely relevant to the topic. Let's continue. Remember, for this build we're gonna try a Fighter.
Let's assume that we're playing a 15 point buy game. We can get a starting stat array of 14/17/12/10/10/9 after racial calculations - and that's about as good as we'll get on STR and DEX without sacrificing too much elsewhere. We've already dropped CHA to 7, and given that fighters have terrible skill points and will saves, I don't think it's a good idea to drop Wisdom or Intelligence below 10.
Now, we need to consider archetypes. Normally, I'd scream "GO FOR WEAPON MASTER!" but the feat we want - Slipslinger Style - specifically requires either weapon focus (Sling) or Weapon Training (Thrown), not Weapon Training (any weapon in the Thrown group). So, Weapon Master is not usable.
The Build
As said, we'll be using the Halfling Staff Sling. This is probably the simpler weapon choice, and definitely less feat intensive. As previously mentioned, it deals 1d6 damage with a x3 crit for us - not bad.
Perhaps counter-intuitively, two of our levels will be Monk levels, specifically the Master of Many Styles Monk, so we can get our favorite styles as bonus feats: Slipslinger Style and Startoss Style. We'll take one at level 2 and another at level 7.
So, let's stat out the first 3 levels of this setup:
- Fighter1: Point Blank Shot, Weapon Focus (Sling)
- MoMS1: Startoss Style
- Fighter2: Precise Shot, Startoss Comet
Okay, at this point you may notice that we're not actually using a Sling Staff yet. That's fine. Our Weapon Focus is a Bonus Feat, so we'll retrain this later. But right now, we can use this regular ol' sling to hit 2 enemies in one turn - 1d3+6 on each. I'll take it.
Next few levels:
- Fighter3: -
- Fighter4: Weapon Specialization (Sling), Startoss Shower
- Fighter5: - We grab Weapon Training (Thrown)
- MoMS2: Slipslinger Style, Deadly Aim
At this point, we are level 7 with BAB 6. We immediately retrain our (Sling) feats to be Sling Staff, Halfling feats. Yes, this costs money and time (10 days and 500g total), but it's worth it.
Now we're starting to pack heat. We deal 1d6+12 damage per hit, potentially 1d6+16 with Deadly Aim, and can clear out small clusters of weaker enemies pretty easily via Startoss Shower (which basically functions as a bullet that bounces each time it hits someone with a range of 80 ft, albeit limited by our BAB). We attack twice a round when not using Startoss Comet. It's not the most impressive of all setups I've ever seen, but it's a start.
(Note: this is without factoring in magical items, so enchanted bullets, a magic sling-staff, bull's strength, and other effects would boost this damage further. We'll discuss that later.)
From this point on, we'll proceed with Fighter levels, but you could potentially dip away from here.
- Fighter6: Weapon Style Mastery
- Fighter7: Halfling Slinger (because more AB never hurt anyone)
- Fighter8: Greater Weapon Focus (Halfling Sling Staff)
- Fighter9: Rapid Shot - Also, we take the Advanced Weapon Training: Trained Throw
- Fighter10: Improved Precise Shot
- Fighter11: clustered shots
Okay: now we can activate both our weapon styles at once (rather than requiring two swift actions to do so) and we have a lot more attack bonus. Given that we have both Halfling Slinger and Improved Weapon Focus, I felt it okay to choose Rapid Shot to get a bit more extra damage available to us when there's only one enemy around.
We're level 13 now. Our damage is higher than before. With Rapid Shot and 12 BAB, we can attack 4 times a round. We have +2 Weapon Training now, and we double our weapon training for sling damage, so a normal shot deals 1d6+15 damage, and we can deal 1d6+23 with Deadly Aim. With our various AB-boosting feats, weapon training, and small size, our to-hit should be decent. Our DEX has doubtlessly hit 20 now, so that will help as well.
But before we call things a done deal, let's look at those gloves of dueling everyone loves so much. They add +2 to our weapon training bonus. Our weapon training bonus is doubled for damage because we have Trained Throw, if you recall. So, that's effectively a +4 boost to our damage, meaning we deal 1d6+19 before deadly aim and 1d6+27 afterwards. And again, we haven't factored in other magical items - just those gloves. Take that as you will, and consider the merits of some enhancement bonuses and weapon enchantments.
Progress gets pretty predictable afterwards. Slipslinger Grenadier and Slipslinger Bombardment are two feats I'd want to add for the sake of having an interesting build at later levels, though there are so many more important feats to get, and at this point grabbing Advanced Weapon Training: Focused Weapon as a feat might not be a bad idea, not to mention Greater Weapon Specialization. We're a feat ahead of other halflings because we're using those two monk levels, but at the same time we're never going to get the capstone Fighter ability and won't see Greater Weapon Spec until level 14. That said, I don't know of many games that actually reach level 20, and I certainly think this build would be playable at low levels and very fun from level 5 onward.
Note that I've been lazy with the math. I haven't figured out what the best set of items to have given our WBL would be at each points, nor have I bothered calculating attack bonuses. Our damage is very much based on raw bonuses from Weapon Training and feats, with Strength contributing +2 damage per shot baseline or +4 with bull's strength or a +4 strength item. With a BAB of 12, we can hit 4 enemies with Startoss Comet at once, so we have something to do when we have to use up a standard action. If we do decide to take Slipslinger Bombardment, we can include alchemical ammunition as part of our repertoire, using it either as part of our Startoss Comet attack or as ammo for our full attack chain. I haven't had a chance to look at all the goodies available to us given that, but I'm sure there's something fun to consider.
Something worth considering is getting Fighter 12 (for another bonus feat, which I'd spend on Greater Weapon Spec) before taking a level of Savage Technologist. This is doable because we keep our Monk abilities and just can't progress Monk further if we become non-lawful. Savage Technologist gives us a DEX and STR boosting rage with no AC penalty, meaning we can get +2 more attack and damage with our staff sling for a one level dip. Tack on Extra Rage and a way to deal with Fatigue and I think that's a nice bonus.
Note that my build could come online much earlier if I didn't want to use a staff sling. Say, for instance, I used a regular Sling instead. That would grant access to the Slipslinger Style much earlier, and allow the two monk levels to be taken together. And if you really wanted, you could take Point Blank Master to reload and fire your sling without attacks of opportunity, but I feel like that's just unnecessary. Still, it's an option.
Overall, I think this would be a viable and fun build.
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So, that's my sling build idea. It's not incredible or anything, but I'm happy with how the sling can actually, finally, FINALLY become a valid weapon after all this time. The Staff Sling, the Double Sling, and even the standard Sling all seem like valid choices now.
What are some other builds you can think of that would utilize these weapons better? What sort of items would you suggest that would support these sorts of builds? I imagine an appropriately built Cleric or Oracle could use Divine Favor and similar buffs to crank out some solid damage, too... Or a Paladin.
And again: I know the bow will pretty much always be the superior choice. It took a lot of research to make this setup work. But I'm curious what others can come up with.

UnArcaneElection |

It's going to be hard to put all those feats on any chassis other than a Fighter without going Epic . . . except Warpriest, which is probably the closest you will be able to get to Paladin with your feat requirements. With Warpriest, if your Sling is one of your Sacred Weapons, you don't care if the base damage is terrible -- the Sacred Weapon class feature is going to bump it up to 1d4 at the start (would have been 1d6 to start with, but you are Small, so you only get 1d6 at 5th level), and it is just going to get better as you level up, thus getting you off the hook for needing Slipslinger Style (assuming you didn't want to get the 2nd and 3rd feats in the chain), which conveniently also gets you off the hook for needing the Master of Many Styles dip, because now you don't need to run 2 Combat Styles at once. Now if only you could find a deity whose Favored Weapon was the Sling . . . Both Halfling deities that I could find (Chaldira Zuzaristan and Thamir Gixx) have bladed melee weapons instead, and while searching for a weapon on www.pathfinderwiki.com pulls up deities that use it in some cases, for some reason it doesn't work for Slings.

Inlaa |

There is controversy over whether or not startoss style works with slings other than to give the damage bonus to them.
Personally I fall on the side of yes it does, but there's a strong argument to be made regarding thrown vs projectile weapon. So expect table variance on that.
Yeah, I thought about that. Still, if it means you can't hit several enemies at once, you still get +6 damage from three feats. It's worth it - but it means you'd be less versatile.
It's going to be hard to put all those feats on any chassis other than a Fighter without going Epic . . . except Warpriest, which is probably the closest you will be able to get to Paladin with your feat requirements. With Warpriest, if your Sling is one of your Sacred Weapons, you don't care if the base damage is terrible -- the Sacred Weapon class feature is going to bump it up to 1d4 at the start (would have been 1d6 to start with, but you are Small, so you only get 1d6 at 5th level), and it is just going to get better as you level up, thus getting you off the hook for needing Slipslinger Style (assuming you didn't want to get the 2nd and 3rd feats in the chain), which conveniently also gets you off the hook for needing the Master of Many Styles dip, because now you don't need to run 2 Combat Styles at once. Now if only you could find a deity whose Favored Weapon was the Sling . . . Both Halfling deities that I could find (Chaldira Zuzaristan and Thamir Gixx) have bladed melee weapons instead, and while searching for a weapon on www.pathfinderwiki.com pulls up deities that use it in some cases, for some reason it doesn't work for Slings.
Well... I was thinking that a paladin or cleric might not get all those feats, but the spells they get should help out a lot. With that said, I think the Warpriest that gets Weapon Training instead of Sacred Weapon is a truly powerful choice.
Warpriest with weapon training = can use the gloves of dueling = can get 2xWeapon Training bonus with slings once it's gotten the Trained Throw Advanced Weapon Training. That's a LOT of potential damage.
Also, on Warpriests:
Focus Weapon
At 1st level, a warpriest receives Weapon Focus as a bonus feat (he can choose any weapon, not just his deity's favored weapon).
Our Warpriest gets 6th level spells, so we want at least WIS 14 so we only need a +2 WIS item to cast those spells. Our stat array as a Halfling Warpriest can be after mods: 12, 17, 12, 10, 14, 9. That's pretty solid.
So, let's take at a 12th level Warpriest (who has 3 bonus feats and Weapon Training as well as free Weapon Focus):
- WP1: Weapon Focus (Sling) (Bonus), Point Blank Shot
- WP2: -
- WP3: Precise Shot (Bonus), Startoss Style
- WP4: - Sacred Weapon +1
- WP5: Weapon Training (Thrown, but only applies to weapons with weapon focus), Weapon Specialization (Sling)
- WP6: Startoss Comet (Bonus)
- WP7: Startoss Shower
- WP8: - Sacred Weapon +2
- WP9: Slipslinger Style, Weapon Style Mastery (Bonus), Advanced Weapon Training (Trained Throw)
- WP10: -
- WP11: Deadly Aim
- WP12: Rapid Shot (Bonus), Sacred Weapon +3
Your build with this setup starts being effective at level 3 and really comes online at 9. Assuming you have Fate's Favored, you're getting +4 attack and damage from the spell Divine Favor, +6 damage from Startoss feats, +1 attack and damage from Slipslinger Style, up to +6 damage from deadly aim, and when wearing gloves of dueling you get +8 damage to your shots as well. Also note that you make 4 shots a round, 3 of which are at your highest BAB (+9). Don't forget that your sacred weapon DOES boost your sling damage to 1d6, but never goes higher as an Arsenal Chaplain. Oh, and even if we had a non-magical weapon, we can use Sacred Weapon to turn our sling into a +3 weapon, or we could give it other weapon abilities via those enhancement bonuses.
Assuming 16 STR (12+4 buff spell), in total, that is 1d6+31 4 times as a full attack, or 1d6+25 without any Deadly Aim bonus. Again, I haven't calculated in any magical items besides the gloves of dueling and, in this case, the Warpriest's Sacred Weapon ability to boost a regular sling to a +3 sling.
...Honestly, that's pretty freaking rad. And you get 6th-level spellcasting throughout your career if you pursue a pure Warpriest path.
EDIT: Oh, add +2 to those last damage numbers because of Weapon Spec. So, 1d6+33 and 1d6+27.
EDIT 2: You know, after you get Clustered Shots and Improved Precise Shot, this Warpriest setup seems like the clear winner over the Fighter. Less BAB, but dang. Arsenal Chaplains are hot. You're even able to give yourself +1 attack or +4 crit confirmation as a swift action at later levels via your free quickened War blessing.
And level 13 will be an awesome level for this Warpriest. Your weapon Training bonus goes up AGAIN, boosting your damage by +2, and you also get Advanced Weapon Training - say, Combat Maneuver Defense, so he can add +5 to his CMD from Weapon Training. And he'll be getting 5th level spells. Yeah, this warpriest would rock a mid-level to higher level campaign just fine.

Inlaa |

As an aside, you could also make either of these builds work with thrown weapons, such as the Chakram or Javelin. Simply replace Slipslinger Style and Weapon Style Mastery with Quick Draw and a feat of your choice. In the case of the Fighter build, you'd no longer need or care for the Master of Many Styles dip, so you could drop that if you wished... or replace it with a different dip of some kind.
You'd still need a Blinkback Belt or Greater Belt of Mighty Hurling to make it work. Personally, I'd rather use the Blinkback Belt unless you could get a truly hefty bonus to STR or DEX without a penalty to the other. The reasoning is this:
You REALLY want Improved Precise Shot at some point. It's a great feat. If you can't get it, you'll have problems. Ergo, going the DEX route may be better.
But if you do go Strength and just don't take Improved Precise Shot, you can do hefty damage. Cover will just be more of a problem. I don't think you can use Two-Handed Thrower, sadly, since it looks like that would negate Startoss Style, but Startoss Style SHOULD more than make up for it.

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There is controversy over whether or not startoss style works with slings other than to give the damage bonus to them.
Personally I fall on the side of yes it does, but there's a strong argument to be made regarding thrown vs projectile weapon. So expect table variance on that.
Given that startoss style requires the "thrown fighter weapon group" (not a 'thrown weapon'), the fact that slings (and sling staves) are in that group, and the fact that the author has said it was specifically meant to work with slings... I really don't see the basis of the view that it doesn't work.
Other than the usual 'I am the RAW' delusion run amok.

PossibleCabbage |

Just FYI, you don't need to retrain Weapon Focus Sling to use it with a slingstaff, since Slipslinger style reads:
In addition, you treat all ranged and thrown weapons that have “sling” in their name as if they were slings for all feats and class abilities that require such weapons, as well as the warslinger racial trait.
So for the slipshooter, you can apply Weapon Focus (sling) and Weapon Specialization (sling) to the slingstaff and the sling. I built one of these, and it sort of felt like it built itself as there's a critical path for best options. I didn't end up taking the 2nd feat in the Startoss chain until level 7 though. First 6 levels of feats were PBS, Precise Shot, Weapon Focus, Slipslinger Style, Rapid Shot, Startoss Style, Advanced Weapon Training (Weapon Style Mastery: Startoss Style),

Ryan Freire |

Ryan Freire wrote:There is controversy over whether or not startoss style works with slings other than to give the damage bonus to them.
Personally I fall on the side of yes it does, but there's a strong argument to be made regarding thrown vs projectile weapon. So expect table variance on that.
Given that startoss style requires the "thrown fighter weapon group" (not a 'thrown weapon'), the fact that slings (and sling staves) are in that group, and the fact that the author has said it was specifically meant to work with slings... I really don't see the basis of the view that it doesn't work.
Other than the usual 'I am the RAW' delusion run amok.
The I am RAW does have to be acknowledged because people aren't going to hunt the forums for an author clarification, and there's no FAQ on the subject.
And...well the way its written has enough ambiguity to add that controversy. Expect table variance, but as i said, i fall on "yes it works" so you're not going to get much argument against it from me.

Woodoodoo |
here is my Sling fighter build so far:
Mutation warrior sling fighter
Starting stats: 20 point buy STR: 14 DEX: 18 CON: 12 INT: 12 WIS: 10 CHA: 9 Level improvements all to dex
lvl1 Point blank, precise
lvl2 weapon focus(Double sling)
lvl3 slipslinger style
lvl4 two weapon fighting
lvl5 Advanced weapon training(trained throw)
lvl6 improoved two weapon fighting
lvl7 deadly aim
lvl8 Rapid shot
lvl9 Clustered shots AWT: focused weapon
It has been working out pretty great so far, Mutation warrior giving me wings has helped me greatly in a lot of encounters. This is just my first of many sling builds I intend to make. Although the amount of feats this one took was a bit discouraging

PossibleCabbage |
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And...well the way its written has enough ambiguity to add that controversy. Expect table variance, but as i said, i fall on "yes it works" so you're not going to get much argument against it from me.
I find that most GMs are amenable to "the author of the feat intended it to work this way" as a means of clearing up ambiguity, but it's good to pre-clear these things before you start.
Plus, in terms of what Startoss does, skipping a rock off of somebody and hitting someone else with it is a lot more plausible than doing the same with a dagger, javelin, axe, lasso, or net.

UnArcaneElection |

You CAN get back base damage progression on a Molthuni Arsenal Chaplain Warpriest, but you have to spend a feat on Advanced Weapon Training (Focused Weapon). If you are Small with a Sling, this starts to help at 5th level, but not very much until you get to 15th level, so you can afford to put it off for a while as you spend your feats on things that you need more desperately. Rather than going for Weapon Specialization, I'd rather go for a Combat Maneuver sequence; in the case of Trip, once you have Weapon Training and enough BAB, you can eventually get Ace Trip, which means that flying opponents aren't safe either; it takes a lot of feats, though.

Inlaa |

Just FYI, you don't need to retrain Weapon Focus Sling to use it with a slingstaff, since Slipslinger style reads:
Quote:In addition, you treat all ranged and thrown weapons that have “sling” in their name as if they were slings for all feats and class abilities that require such weapons, as well as the warslinger racial trait.So for the slipshooter, you can apply Weapon Focus (sling) and Weapon Specialization (sling) to the slingstaff and the sling. I built one of these, and it sort of felt like it built itself as there's a critical path for best options. I didn't end up taking the 2nd feat in the Startoss chain until level 7 though. First 6 levels of feats were PBS, Precise Shot, Weapon Focus, Slipslinger Style, Rapid Shot, Startoss Style, Advanced Weapon Training (Weapon Style Mastery: Startoss Style),
Oh, wow. I didn't look at it that way. AWESOME. That makes these builds even easier to pilot.
You CAN get back base damage progression on a Molthuni Arsenal Chaplain Warpriest, but you have to spend a feat on Advanced Weapon Training (Focused Weapon). If you are Small with a Sling, this starts to help at 5th level, but not very much until you get to 15th level, so you can afford to put it off for a while as you spend your feats on things that you need more desperately. Rather than going for Weapon Specialization, I'd rather go for a Combat Maneuver sequence; in the case of Trip, once you have Weapon Training and enough BAB, you can eventually get Ace Trip, which means that flying opponents aren't safe either; it takes a lot of feats, though.
Yeah, I don't feel like Focused Weapon is worth it, generally, especially since you'll get 1d6 from Arsenal Chaplain anyway.
Ace Trip is cool but the feat tax is pretty hefty, yeah. But without Weapon Spec, you could pretty easily take it in time. Personally, I'd rather take Clustered Shots over Ranged Trip with the Warpriest build; I think the value of that feat is just too important to forget. It's still a cool choice, though.
EDIT: Also, is there a way to reduce Ranged/Ace Trip to a standard action, or to one of your many attacks?
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As an aside, what's a good example of a strong archery-based build? I want to compare that to the warpriest build. I know the warpriest build is viable, but I don't know how much the archery build wins out over the warpriest one.
EDIT 2: Also, would our level 13 warpriest be better off with AWT: Combat Maneuver Defense (for the +5 CMD) or AWT: Warrior Spirit (for more enhancement bonuses on his weapon on top of Sacred Weapon)?
And what spells would the Warpriest want to use? Divine Power and Divine Favor seem pretty obvious. What else would be awesomesauce?

Inlaa |
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How's this for a 1-15 level scheme with the Warpriest build I posted earlier? Again, assume 15 point buy with the following stats: 12, 17, 12, 10, 14, 9. Dump all level-up points into DEX.
- WP1: Weapon Focus (Sling) (Bonus), Point Blank Shot
- WP2: -
- WP3: Precise Shot (Bonus), Slipslinger Style
- WP4: - Sacred Weapon +1
- WP5: Weapon Training (Thrown, but only applies to weapons with weapon focus), Startoss Style
- WP6: Weapon Style Mastery (Startoss) (Bonus) - we can get this early because we're Warpriests and our level counts as BAB for prereqs.
- WP7: Startoss Comet
- WP8: - Sacred Weapon +2
- WP9: Startoss Shower, Rapid Shot (Bonus), Advanced Weapon Training (Trained Throw)
- WP10: -
- WP11: Deadly Aim
- WP12: Clustered Shots (Bonus), Sacred Weapon +3
- WP13: Improved Precise Shot (Sling), Advanced Weapon Training (Warrior Spirit)
- WP14: -
- WP15: Point Blank Master (Bonus), Weapon Specialization (Sling)
My logic: this lets you start wielding a staff sling at level 3 (increased range and better crit mod), which means you don't have to hold off on buying magical weapons. You get your next damage boost at level 5 (from Weapon Training), and at level 6 get +2 more damage from Startoss Style being usable with Slipslinger. You get Rapid Shot earlier to take advantage of your solid damage, giving you 1d6+26 damage three times a round at level 9.
Level 3 damage calculations
This isn't our most glorious of levels.
We can assume we have pretty much standard gear: a masterwork weapon with regular ammo sounds right. We don't have 2nd level spells yet. Assuming we have some hint that battle is coming, we can get off Divine Favor and our Warpriest blessing of War. Both will only last a minute, so this has to happen just before the door is kicked in.
I am not counting Point Blank Shot in future calculations, but I will count it in our level 3 calculation since I think it's safe to assume we're using a move action to stay near-ish the rest of the party as we don't have iterative attacks yet.
Our damage:
1d6+1 strength, +1 slipslinger, +1 point blank shot, +2 divine favor (thank you fate's favored) = 1d6+5. That's far from incredible, but it's not terrible.
Our attack bonus, however, is pretty hefty for our level. 2 BAB +3 (dex) +1 (small) +1 (masterwork) +1 (weapon focus) +1 (point blank shot) +2 (divine favor) +1 (war blessing) = +11 to hit. For that level, we should do just fine at hitting enemies and being useful. We also can use Fervor to do a lame version of Lay on Hands on ourselves, so that's nice, and our saving throws will be slightly above average with 2 high saves and +1 to all saves (thank you Halfling racial).
Level 6 damage calculations
I think it's fair to assume we have a +1 weapon at this point. We probably don't have those gloves of dueling yet, though if you started play at level 6 you COULD have them. But I think assuming we have a +1 weapon and +1 armor with a couple cheap trinkets is much safer. We're saving for the gloves, but they're not here yet.
As for spells, we still only have 1 attack per turn, and we have access to Bull's. I think we'll have Divine Favor and Bull's ready before fights. We'll assume that the War Blessing doesn't factor in right now; it's a standard action and only lasts a minute. If you have 1 round before the fight starts, it's way better to cast Divine Favor at this point for its much heftier bonuses.
Also, let's assume again that at 6th level we're trying to use Point Blank Shot. The level 9 calculations will NOT include this (as you have iterative attacks and rapid shot), but we'll include it for this level
Our damage:
1d6+1 enhancement bonus, +3 str including bull's strength, , +1 slipslinger, +2 Startoss style, +3 divine favor, +1 sacred weapon to add enhancement, +1 weapon training, +1 point blank shot = 1d6+13 damage. Still not incredible - we hold our own but without all the big bonuses and without iterative attacks, we're not powerful yet. We'll be there soon, though.
Attack:
4 BAB +4 (dex) +1 (small) +2 (enhancement w/sacred wpn) +1 (weapon focus) +1 (point blank shot) +3 (divine favor) +1 (war blessing) +1 weapon training = +18 attack. Once again, this isn't godly or anything. We'll hit our targets, usually. This is good because in 1 more level we get Startoss Comet and can use our standard action to hit 2 enemies at once, and that means we'll be very useful for mopping up weaker enemies (with a potential of 2d6+24 damage each round before crits). And we also get 4th level spellcasting at 7th level, so that's just a juicy place for us in general.
Level 9 damage calculations
WBL for level 9 is 46k gp. 8k goes to the weapon, 15k to the gloves, leaving 23k remaining. Tack on a belt of Incredible Dexterity for +4 DEX worth 16k and assume we bolster ourselves with Bull's Strength and Divine Favor before fights if we can. We have 7k left to spend.
Damage dealt per shot: 1d6+2 enhancement bonus, +3 str including bull's strength, +1 slipslinger, +6 startoss feats, +4 divine favor, +2 sacred weapon to add enhancement, +8 weapon training with gloves of dueling (thank you Trained Throw) = 1d6+26.
So, with 1d6+26 damage for all three shots, your attack bonus is suitable. 6 BAB +6 (DEX) +1 (Small) +1 (Wpn. Focus) +4 (Wpn.Training) + 4 (Enhancement, including Sacred Wpn.) +4 (Divine Favor) = +26 AB for the first two attacks and +21 for the last attack. That's... probably good enough? We also have Precise Shot already, so hopefully we can overcome issues concerning extra AC from cover.
Also, if we're fighting Evil creatures (we'll be good aligned), we can make our staff sling Holy instead of giving it another +2. This means we could be dealing 3d6+24 with each shot instead of 1d6+26. That's a good trade.
Note that we get Quicken Blessing (War) as a bonus feat, but we can't apply it to ourselves until 10th level when quickening it. I've left it out of the calculations here.
Also note that with Startoss Shower we can take a move action and hit 3 separate opponents at once (once for the initial strike, twice for the bounces), dealing our full 1d6+26 with each shot. That's some decent action economy at work.
I'll look at levels 12 and 15 in more depth later, but I think this is going to be the build I play in my next game. I'll also research my spells - we're getting to 4th level spells and beyond now, so it's worth looking at the best, longest-lasting buffs that we can maintain throughout the day, and spells that will protect us from being DEAD especially.

Inlaa |
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Sorry about posting twice in a row, but I decided to go ahead and do a level 10 analysis since that's the point at which Divine Power comes into play.
Also note that this is my first Warpriest I'll ever be playing, so I've only just realized that Fervor lets you cast spells mid-fight. Let's get crunching.
Oh, and I'll start spoilering things. This discussion is getting lengthy.
With a WBL of 62,000 gold, I think it's fair to say we'd use our new gold to boost our defenses. 7k for defensive items becomes 19k spent on defensive and utility items. Ergo, we're not getting any further bonuses to our capacity to murder stuff from items. We stay with the previous item bonuses we had. We will take a Lesser Extend Metamagic rod for 3k.
However, a few things come into factor:
1. Divine Power is a kickass spell.
2. We now can use our Blessing as a Swift action on ourselves, granting ourselves +4 crit confirmation or +1 to attack or AC. Generally nice.
3. There's generally some spells I should've been keeping in mind that I haven't been, and with Divine Favor out of the way in lieu of Divine Power I think I can fit some in.
Let's assume the following spells are cast as the party prepares to explore the dungeon:
- Protection from Evil (x1, perhaps more to buff other party members)
- Bull's Strength (lasts 10 minutes, so can be cast when the party succeeds at Perception checks and the like and guesses enemies are nearby). We can extend it with our rod to last 20 minutes, making it far more viable for pre-buffing purposes.
- Weapon of Awe, extended via the metamagic rod so it lasts 20 minutes.
- We'll use our metamagic rod to cast a 20 minute Ironskin as well. It's not relevant to our calculations, but it's important that we acknowledge this build is bolstering its defenses with some spell slots.
- Also, we still memorize Divine Favor, because there will most likely be more than 1 fight a day.
Also, some situational damage boosting spells:
- Magic Stone is a situational spell to prepare if we're facing undead. 2 casts = an extra D6 of damage vs. undead.
- Daybreak Arrow likewise can boost our damage vs. undead.
Let's assume that we're fighting an evil enemy. We won't make assumptions about its type; it's just some evil enemy.
So, buffs presently in place: Protection From Evil, Bull's Strength, Weapon of Awe, Ironskin.
Attack bonuses with Divine Power and Rapid Shot are: 7 BAB +6 (DEX) +1 (Small) +1 (Wpn. Focus) +4 (Wpn.Training) + 2 (Enhancement) +4 (Divine Power) -2 (Rapid Shot) = +23 AB, or +18 on the fourth shot.
Damage with Divine Power = 1d6+2 enhancement bonus, +3 str including bull's strength, +1 slipslinger, +6 startoss feats, +4 divine power, +8 weapon training with gloves of dueling (thank you Trained Throw) +2 (Weapon of Awe) = 1d6+26.
COMBAT:
Round 1 of combat:
Fervor to Swift cast Divine Power. Full attack.
+23/+23/+23/+18 1d6+26.
Round 2 of combat:
Sacred Weapon > Holy enchantment. Full attack.
+23/+23/+23+/18 3d6+26.
Round 3 of combat:
Quicken Blessing > +1 insight to attack. Full attack.
+24/+24/+24/+19 3d6+26
Round 4 of combat:
Quick Blessing (Major) > +4 to confirmation rolls; crits will make our enemies shaken, making us REALLY want crits. Full attack.
+24/+24/+24/+19 3d6+26
All-in-all, this seems like solid damage, and if you crit you deal x3 damage and the enemy is shaken for 1 round. That's nice.
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Let's look at our feat/ability list again up to level 12. I'm including Quicken Blessing as a bonus feat in this since Arsenal Chaplains DO get this.
- WP1: Weapon Focus (Sling) (Bonus), Point Blank Shot
- WP2: -
- WP3: Precise Shot (Bonus), Slipslinger Style
- WP4: - Sacred Weapon +1
- WP5: Weapon Training (Thrown, but only applies to weapons with weapon focus), Startoss Style
- WP6: Weapon Style Mastery (Startoss) (Bonus) - we can get this early because we're Warpriests and our level counts as BAB for prereqs.
- WP7: Startoss Comet, Quick Blessing (War) (Bonus)
- WP8: - Sacred Weapon +2
- WP9: Startoss Shower, Rapid Shot (Bonus), Advanced Weapon Training (Trained Throw)
- WP10: -
- WP11: Deadly Aim
- WP12: Clustered Shots (Bonus), Sacred Weapon +3
We have increased our WBL by 46k. We'll use 24k to improve our Belt of +4 Dexterity into a Belt of Physical Might (STR/DEX) +4. With our remaining 22k we'll improve our weapon to a +3 staff sling, leaving us with 12k gold. We'll spend 4k on a Cracked Pale Green Prism for a +1 Competence Bonus on attack rolls, and 4k on a headband of inspired wisdom +2. Let's get a cracked dusty rose prism ioun stone as well for +1 initiative for 500g. 3.5k is our remaining gold.
Our base stats (15 point buy, calculated before items and enchantments) are 12/17+3/12/10/14/9. With items it's 16/24/12/10/16/9. We no longer need to cast Bull's Strength on ourself, freeing up a spell slot and a daily use of the metamagic rod while increasing the likelihood of actually getting that 16 STR in a fight.
If we use the Unique Spell Rules, we now have access to Good Hope if we worship Iomedae (which is a fine choice - we're good aligned already, and she's part of the halfling pantheon). This uses up one of our 4th level spell slots.
Our Sacred Weapon bonus is now +3, and our BAB is now 9. We have Deadly Aim and Clustered Shots. Let's crunch numbers.
Buffs presently in place: Protection From Evil, Weapon of Awe, Ironskin.
Attack bonuses with Divine Power, Deadly Aim and Rapid Shot are: 9 BAB +7 (DEX) +1 (Small) +1 (Wpn. Focus) +4 (Wpn.Training) + 3 (Enhancement) +5 (Divine Power) -2 (Rapid Shot) -3 (Deadly Aim) = +25 AB, or +20 on the fourth shot.
Damage with Divine Power = 1d6+3 enhancement bonus, +3 str, +1 slipslinger, +6 startoss feats, +5 divine power, +8 weapon training with gloves of dueling +2 (Weapon of Awe) +6 (Deadly Aim) = 1d6+34.
COMBAT:
Round 1 of combat:
Fervor to Swift cast Divine Power. Full attack.
+25/+25/+25/+20 1d6+34.
Round 2 of combat:
Sacred Weapon > Holy enchantment. Full attack.
+25/+25/+25+/20 3d6+34.
Round 3 of combat:
Fervor to Swift cast Good Hope. Full attack.
+27/+27/+27/+22 3d6+36
Round 3 of combat:
Quicken Blessing > +1 insight to attack. Full attack.
+28/+28/+28/+23 3d6+36
Round 4 of combat:
Quick Blessing (Major) > +4 to confirmation rolls; crits will make our enemies shaken, making us REALLY want crits. Full attack. Hopefully the fight is over by now.
+28/+28/+28/+23 3d6+36
Again, solid numbers. And I'll just remind everyone that if we are ever reduced to just a Standard Action (such as due to having to move), we still get to attack multiple enemies at once with Startoss Shower.
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I'll do the level 15 crunch later. It should be another big boost thanks to Improved Precise Shot, Weapon Spec, and Warrior Spirit. Our enhancement bonuses are amazing at this point.

Inlaa |

DOT
Better build than what I came up with, and solid fun :)
Thanks. Though I slightly screwed up the level 12 calculations - I left out the +1 from the Ioun Stone (which isn't necessary if you have a bard with you anyway). So, AB should range between 26/26/26/21 to 29/29/29/24 instead.
But I AM hoping to see other builds come up from this. Part of me wonders if a Bard-based build with Arcane Strike, Inspire Courage, and some spells like Good Hope would be a nice start. Perhaps an Arrowsong Minstrel, base bard, or Archaelogist?
Will try to post the level 15 part later. I'm not used to playing Clerics or Warpriests, so I'm still eyeballing useful spells.
EDIT: One of my realizations is that the build lacks Improved Critical. It's a nice feat to have when you have a x3 damage multiplier.
I'm thinking that replacing Weapon Spec at 15 with Improved Critical (Sling) makes a lot of sense. We still get Point Blank Master and Improved Precise Shot, and Warrior Spirit is going to increase our DPR. We can always take Weapon Spec, GWF, and GWS as we near 20. Thoughts?

Inlaa |

Sap Master FTW.
That is really funny. I like that build.
There are lots of things immune to non-lethal though, right? So it's perfect against living enemies, but would have problems versus golems and undead, right? And anything that's immune to sneak attack damage is going to negate this combo?
Does it still operate fine after the surprise round?
It looks very fun either way.

Inlaa |

Decided to make a minor post in between the next big one, since I had some thoughts.
So, buying a Wayfinder at level 12 to store our Cracked Pale Green Prism Ioun Stone. This protects it from being sundered and also gives us the option to remove the Fatigued condition as a free action. I doubt that'll come into play often, but not getting our 4k investment sundered is worth it in and of itself. (We don't really care about the 500g Ioun stone floating over our head; it just gives us a little extra initiative.) This leaves us with 3k gold for various spending purposes.
I decided to look into 20 and 25 point buy to see what it'd do for the warpriest. I decided the best use was probably boosting non-murderhobo stuff, like Constitution and Intelligence. For instance...
20 Point Buy (after racial mods): 12/17/14/12/14/9. +1 more HP and skill points per level = very nice.
25 Point Buy (after racial mods): 14/17/14/12/14/9. +1 more damage per shot isn't much, but it also gets us carrying capacity (which should be useful in the early game). It also makes our damage in the early game slightly less laughable.
Finally, it seems pretty clear this would make a really awesome throwing build. Consider, for instance, these Human stat arrays, assuming a belt of Mighty Hurling is procured ASAP and we're chucking something like Javelins or Chakrams:
Human, 15 point buy: 18/8/12/12/14/8
Human, 20 point buy: 20/8/12/12/14/7
Human, 25 point buy: 20/10/14/12/14/7
With a Greater Belt of Mighty Hurling (whose strength score I don't believe can be upgraded further), you'd have 24 STR, use STR for attack and damage, and be able to choose the Startoss feats. You'd be able to start with Quick Draw at level 1 (thanks bonus feat) and wouldn't need Slipslinger Style or Weapon Style Mastery, effectively freeing two feats. Super, super nice. You lose a lot of range, but your damage should effectively skyrocket in comparison to the halfling build.
The problem with the human build is that RAW your weapons gain returning, but that means they don't return until next turn - so you have to enchant multiple weapons. If you could get a Blinkback Belt style enchantment on a custom item slot somewhere else (a bandolier?) then you could use the Belt of Mighty Hurling's strength bonus along with the Blinkback Belt's kickass "it returns as soon as the attack finishes" properties so that you only need one weapon.