Since when? And what do you base that on?Since first edition, and every new edition since.
The rules, Gary Gygax, repeated developer comments over the course of 30 years, including Pathfinder.
So no quote, just your random opinion that the rules for this game let you dodge when you are paralyzed.
Ooooookay.
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Essentially the character becomes an unattended non-magical item.Citation needed.I've given about 10.
You haven't given one.
Quoting yourself does not count as a citation.
I've given about 10.None of which have been valid.
Okay you play your way, where people can dodge things while paralyzed.
I gave you plenty of reasons, you gave none (but your attitude).
See ya.
Since when? And what do you base that on?Since first edition, and every new edition since.
The rules, Gary Gygax, repeated developer comments over the course of 30 years, including Pathfinder.
So no quote, just your random opinion that the rules for this game let you dodge when you are paralyzed.
Ooooookay.
The first hint you might be wrong: everyone else disagrees with you.
You want to spend thirty minutes with google looking quotes help yourself. This has been a non-issue since 1st edition.
Not worth the time it would take me to find quotes you've already demonstrated a willingness to ignore when others provided them.
Essentially the character becomes an unattended non-magical item. Per the rules:
Unattended Non-Magical Items: Non-magical, unattended items never make saving throws. They are considered to have failed their saving throws.
Further backing this up:
Performing a Combat Maneuver-
If your target is immobilized, unconscious, or otherwise incapacitated, your maneuver automatically succeeds(note you get no defense against a combat maneuver when immobilized).
Paralyzed
A paralyzed character is frozen in place and unable to move or act. A paralyzed character has effective Dexterity and Strength scores of 0 and is helpless, but can take purely mental actions. A winged creature flying in the air at the time that it becomes paralyzed cannot flap its wings and falls. A paralyzed swimmer can't swim and may drown. A creature can move through a space occupied by a paralyzed creature—ally or not. Each square occupied by a paralyzed creature, however, counts as 2 squares to move through.note - "AND IS HELPLESS".
Not "Can dodge without moving"
Here is the definition of Helpless:
Helpless
A helpless character is paralyzed, held, bound, sleeping, unconscious, or otherwise completely at an opponent's mercy. A helpless target is treated as having a Dexterity of 0 (–5 modifier). Melee attacks against a helpless target get a +4 bonus (equivalent to attacking a prone target). Ranged attacks get no special bonus against helpless targets. Rogues can sneak attack helpless targets.
As a full-round action, an enemy can use a melee weapon to deliver a coup de grace to a helpless foe. An enemy can also use a bow or crossbow, provided he is adjacent to the target. The attacker automatically hits and scores a critical hit. (A rogue also gets his sneak attack damage bonus against a helpless foe when delivering a coup de grace.) If the defender survives, he must make a Fortitude save (DC 10 + damage dealt) or die. Delivering a coup de grace provokes attacks of opportunity.
Creatures that are immune to critical hits do not take critical damage, nor do they need to make Fortitude saves to avoid being killed by a coup de grace.
Being helpless does not mean you don't get a reflex saving throw, it means you get a -5 on your reflex saving throw (as I've already stated).
For a third time, I challenge you to find a single instance in any pathfinder material of anything or anyone being denied its saving throw, or the benefit of a successful throw, and present it in this thread.
Evasion (Ex)
At 2nd level and higher, a rogue can avoid even magical and unusual attacks with great agility. If she makes a successful Reflex saving throw against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save, she instead takes no damage. Evasion can be used only if the rogue is wearing light armor or no armor. A helpless rogue does not gain the benefit of evasion.
But I guess it's never happened ever in the history of Paizo and D&D.
Evasion (Ex)
At 2nd level and higher, a rogue can avoid even magical and unusual attacks with great agility. If she makes a successful Reflex saving throw against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save, she instead takes no damage. Evasion can be used only if the rogue is wearing light armor or no armor. A helpless rogue does not gain the benefit of evasion.
But I guess it's never happened ever in the history of Paizo and D&D.
A helpless rogue is not denied a reflex save while helpless.
He takes half damage instead of zero damage. The limitation is on Evasion, not his saving throw.
Evasion (Ex)
At 2nd level and higher, a rogue can avoid even magical and unusual attacks with great agility. If she makes a successful Reflex saving throw against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save, she instead takes no damage. Evasion can be used only if the rogue is wearing light armor or no armor. A helpless rogue does not gain the benefit of evasion.
But it doesn't say they don't get the ordinary benefits (1/2 damage) of making the save, or that they don't get the saving throw at all.
In fact, this argues against your interpretation. If a helpless character couldn't make a Reflex save, a helpless rogue couldn't. And if a helpless rogue couldn't make a Reflex save at all, a helpless rogue couldn't make a successful Reflex save.
So the only way that the last line is meaningful is if helpless characters can, in fact, still make Reflex saves.
As the others have said, that is not referring to your reflex save.
The challenge still stands, if you can find something please show us.
So your argument is that rogue who is immobilized can't use his ability that grants a reflex save....
but that he gets a reflex save anyway...
WHOOOOo....
You guys are something.
You know what the original 3.5 rule said?
Evasion
These extraordinary abilities allow the target of an area attack to leap or twist out of the way. Rogues and monks have evasion and improved evasion as class features, but certain other creatures have these abilities, too.
If subjected to an attack that allows a Reflex save for half damage, a character with evasion takes no damage on a successful save.
As with a Reflex save for any creature, a character must have room to move in order to evade. A bound character or one squeezing through an area cannot use evasion.
As with a Reflex save for any creature, evasion is a reflexive ability. The character need not know that the attack is coming to use evasion.
As with a Reflex save for any creature, a character must have room to move in order to evade.
But it's never happened. Cause you guys said so.
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So your argument is that rogue who is immobilized can't use his ability that grants a reflex save....
but that he gets a reflex save anyway...
Evasion doesn't grant him the save. It changes what happens on the result.
WHOOOOo....You guys are something.
Stuff the attitude or mine is going to come out again.
Damn, too late.
You know what the original 3.5 rule said?
Yes, and I know just how irrelevant it is to Pathfinder rules.
So your argument is that rogue who is immobilized can't use his ability that grants a reflex save....
Huh? Evasion doesn't grant a reflex save, it just gives an extra benefit when one is ordinarily available.
Allow me to weigh in on the side of you always get a saving through unless a specific ability specifically states you do not get one.
Nowhere in Helpless or Paralyzed or any other condition I can think of off the top of my head does it remove your ability to make a saving throw of any kind.
Create Pit does not in any way shape or form remove your right to a saving throw.
You're only automatically a willing target if you're unconscious.
and that only applies to harmless spells too.
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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With respect, Kaliel, the very phrasing of the Helpless condition permits a Reflex saving throw. "A helpless target is treated as having a Dexterity of 0 (–5 modifier)." If a Reflex saving throw were dis-allowed, there would be no need for the -5 ability modifier.
Let me try another tack: you say that the description of a Reflex save uses the phrase "jumps to safety" and therefore requires the recipient to jump. But if I press you on that, is that really your position? In your games, do elephants -- who can't jump -- or lumbering stone golems or giant oozes -- for whom jumping seems unlikely -- not get Reflex saving throws?
In terms of the game, spell effects are balanced by the saving throw mechanic. Hold person imposes a severe penalty to a saving throw, but it would be too strong a spell if it were turning spells from "Saving throw: Reflex negates" to "Saving throw: None".
The evasion rule actually supports the "everyone gets a save" camp. It explicitly says being able to avoid all damage is the result of great agility, while ordinary non-evasion reflex saves could be dodging or luck.
The create pit problem, and similar non-blast spells that involve reflex saves, are easy to explain by remembering that the grid is really supposed to be a representation of a real place, one that isn't governed by perfect 5 foot squares. Maybe when the pit opened beneath the magical sword, the edges weren't perfect lines and the sword is precariously on the edge.
It's supposed to be an abstraction. Being able to make the save is there for game design/balance purposes. It's up to the GM to tell the compelling story that makes it work from a logical level. Alternatively, it's up to the GM to say the reflex save isn't needed for balance and not allow it. Having every little game rule need to be perfectly clear and logical is something I did for years and my games have been better since I focused on telling cool stories instead. The endless looking up rules and FAQs and clarifications isn't worth it.
Maybe casters aren't as perfect as they thought when aiming their spells.
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Kaliel,
The rules do not always fit what makes sense in the real world. You are free to house rule it when they don't if you prefer the more realistic version.
The rules are however very consistent. Whether its vs create pit, fireball, lightning bolt, or any other effect which grants a reflex save, a character gets the reflex save whether paralyzed, unconscious, tied up, or is able to move about normally. When a reflex save is not allowed, the rules will explicitly tell us that such and such condition prevents making saving throws (or prevents making reflex saving throws).
Its important to understand what the rules actually are, so that when you do make house rules, you can do so with an understanding of how that will impact the game.
In this instance, despite going against what would happen to a paralyzed person in the real world should a hole open in the ground beneath them, the rules still allow a player a reflex save to avoid falling into the pit. Maybe they tip over and fall into an adjacent square as the pit opens? Maybe the magic warps them there? Maybe an invisible guardian angel shoves them there? Doesn't matter, fluff it how you like (if you are going by the rules as written version).
Reflex Save: Spells with Reflex saves usually create a physical burst or spread in an area, like an explosion, which the target is able to dodge with a successful saving throw. In general, making a successful Reflex save means the target dodged the effect, or the effect rolled over or around the target with a lesser effect. Note that you shouldn't build a spell where the caster makes an attack roll and the target also makes a Reflex saving throw; doing so brings Dexterity into play twice for the same spell (once for the target's AC, once for the target's Reflex save modifier).
Reflex: These saves test your ability to dodge area attacks and unexpected situations. Apply your Dexterity modifier to your Reflex saving throws.
So... emphasis mine. There are many things that can affect a reflex save beyond the ability to dodge:
- Divine protection, via Paladin- Luck, via Halfling
- Just being that awesome, via high level.
- Magic, via Cloak of Resistance, Resistance the Spell, etc.
As for a pit opening at your feet, isn't that because of a rift in the space-time continuum resulting in a pocket dimension? Who's to say that doesn't work out in your favor at times?
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"Any creature standing in the area where you first conjured the pit must make a Reflex savings throw to jump to safety to the nearest open space"
(Bolded for emphasis)
Now the spell doesn't give rules to govern, in the event of a successful save, how much of next turn's movement is expended to move the successfully saving character to a new square (unlike other out-of-turn movement like Step-Up and Combat Patrol). But the spell description IS explicit in that in this case a successful reflex save is in fact contigent upon being able to relocate to a non-pit square.
This in turn is a demonstration that circumstances CAN indeed potentially render reflex saves being modified by circumstance or even denied outright. When are these cases? Whenever the GM's judgement says they are.
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Spell descriptions aren't just fluff. The gold standard in discussing what you can or can't do with a spell is exactly what the spell description says, and nothing more.
The spell says you must "jump" to an open space. Personally I'd be amenable to a character crawling or otherwise traveling via other non-jumping methods, but that's my table. Either way, if you can't physically move you can't move and that's a requirement of making a reflex save for that spell. (Barring some magical, non-somatic teleportation magic available as an immediate action, of course) in the case of Create Pit, if you can't make it to a "safe" square for reasons other than paralysis/immobility you still can't meet the requirements for a successful save even if your PC isn't paralyzed and you roll a nat 20.
I think this spell should not be used in this discussion since, even the devs said you had to jump, it would have no affect on the general rule you get a reflex save even when paralyzed.
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I think this spell should not be used in this discussion since, even the devs said you had to jump, it would have no affect on the general rule you get a reflex save even when paralyzed.
I'm not arguing with a paralyzed PC getting a reflex save as a general rule. In fact I'm agreeing with it. Paralyzed PC in the aoe of a Fireball or Lightning Bolt? I'm all for luck or one of those other factors upthread explaining a successful reflex save in those kinds of contexts.
Instead I'm saying that the GM is empowered/allowed to impose "this situation only" modifiers to the save, or even potentially rule that "in this case" a save is simply impossible. Create Pit explicitly linking a successful save with grid movement is an extant and canonical example of exactly this for a character that cannot move.
I was talking to any specific person.
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You're only automatically a willing target if you're unconscious.and that only applies to harmless spells too.
No Abraham, it applies to spells that require to be aimed at a willing target, like teleport, dimension door and a few others.
There is no "willing target" option for the Saves.Some spells restrict you to willing targets only. Declaring yourself as a willing target is something that can be done at any time (even if you're flat-footed or it isn't your turn). Unconscious creatures are automatically considered willing, but a character who is conscious but immobile or helpless (such as one who is bound, cowering, grappling, paralyzed, pinned, or stunned) is not automatically willing.
This is the part about Saving Throw
Voluntarily Giving up a Saving Throw: A creature can voluntarily forego a saving throw and willingly accept a spell's result. Even a character with a special resistance to magic can suppress this quality.
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We had this discussion before, here: Create Pit 'Jump to safty', Opportunity Attack?
and the result was the same, some people feel that a short phrase added to avoid the weird image of someone standing on thin air over a pit because he has made a save and the problem of having him start his round on air, so unable to move away, mean the save was removed and that you provoke a AoO.
Other people think that, like for a lot of other situations, they simply mean that thank to a successful save you are moved to the nearest open space and that the "jump to safety" part is only fluff.
I doubt we will ever agree as long as the text stay this way.
The best option is to make a specific thread with a FAQ.
Something like:
The Create pit spell say that if you make your reflex save you "jump to safety in the nearest open space". Is this a form of movement?
It provoke an AoO?
It require you to be able to jump to make a save (so not paralyzed, bound, a creature that can't jump, etc.)?
A reply to that would resolve the issue.
But the spell description IS explicit in that in this case a successful reflex save is in fact contigent upon being able to relocate to a non-pit square.
No it doesn't. The spell description tells you what happens if you succeed on the saving throw, but it doesn't say anything about how able or not you are to relocate to that square, only that you do.
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No, the save is still possible. The result of the save is what is impossible.
Which of course renders having made the save moot as you fall anyway since you didn't make it out of the aoe as the requisite conditon for making the save in the spell description. Unless you're prepared to argue that making that reflex save enables anti-gravity... not being snarky... just wondering how one actually argues that being in a square with no floor means you don't succumb to gravity.
Sure, if the spell were cast in a 10x10 room I can see a "in this case" ruling where a saving PC jumps onto the wall, and will be subject to subsequent climb checks to avoid falling... but with respect to this thread I can't see a ruling that a paralyzed character manages something akin to this as being reasonable.
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No, the save is still possible. The result of the save is what is impossible.Which of course renders having made the save moot as you fall anyway since you didn't make it out of the aoe as the requisite conditon for making the save in the spell description. Unless you're prepared to argue that making that reflex save enables anti-gravity... not being snarky... just wondering how one actually argues that being in a square with no floor means you don't succumb to gravity.
Sure, if the spell were cast in a 10x10 room I can see a "in this case" ruling where a saving PC jumps onto the wall, and will be subject to subsequent climb checks to avoid falling... but with respect to this thread I can't see a ruling that a paralyzed character manages something akin to this as being reasonable.
the problem with your line of thought is that if it is really a jump we lack a lot of information.
Jump DC - it require a normal jump with a standard DC based on the spot where you jump or the reflex save already subsume it?
The nearest open space is 20' up - you can jump there?
Creatures that can move but can't jump can make the save?
The infamous "it provoke an AoO?" question.
There is a distance limit to the "nearest open space"? (apparently if you have a 10'x10' room and a 5' corridor full of people you end behind all the column, potentially a good distance away.
If we can spend a "out of turn no action" to jump, we can spend the same "out of turn no action" to fly or climb? Bot cations can save uf from the pit, and for some character or creature are way easier to perform.
Etc.
Reading that reflex save as "if you make the save you are moved by the nearest open space" (be it thanks the magic of the dimensional rift opening or being hooked to a piece of furniture that is outside the pit or whatever don't matter, it is fluff) make way simpler to adjudicate the spell and remove some weirdness.
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No, the save is still possible. The result of the save is what is impossible.Which of course renders having made the save moot as you fall anyway since you didn't make it out of the aoe as the requisite conditon for making the save in the spell description. Unless you're prepared to argue that making that reflex save enables anti-gravity... not being snarky... just wondering how one actually argues that being in a square with no floor means you don't succumb to gravity.
Sure, if the spell were cast in a 10x10 room I can see a "in this case" ruling where a saving PC jumps onto the wall, and will be subject to subsequent climb checks to avoid falling... but with respect to this thread I can't see a ruling that a paralyzed character manages something akin to this as being reasonable.
the problem with your line of thought is that if it is really a jump we lack a lot of information.
Jump DC - it require a normal jump with a standard DC based on the spot where you jump or the reflex save already subsume it?
The nearest open space is 20' up - you can jump there?
Creatures that can move but can't jump can make the save?
The infamous "it provoke an AoO?" question.
There is a distance limit to the "nearest open space"? (apparently if you have a 10'x10' room and a 5' corridor full of people you end behind all the column, potentially a good distance away.
Etc.
Reading that reflex save as "if you make the save you are moved by the nearest open space" (be it thanks the magic of the dimensional rift opening or being hooked to a piece of furniture that is outside the pit or whatever don't matter, it is fluff) make way simpler to adjudicate the spell and remove some weirdness.
Fair questions. And I feel the answers are either implicitly clear, or manifest with basic common sense. In detail:
Jump DC: none given, therefore none needed. The motions in making the save also get you to safety. But if you can't move, well that's why the thread doesn't have an easy answer...
How far CAN you move on the successful save: Minimum distance: explicitly, to outside the AoE. Maximum distance: this is "clearly" leaving that answer to Rule Zero. Too hard to legislate every possible tactical or terrain context.
Making the save provoke an AoO? Spell description doesn't say it does, AND there's no example coming to mind where making any other save provokes, so there's little ground for arguing this would.
Now, in contrast, look at the alternative in saying making a save on this spell even while immobile means you don't fall:
Another thing the spell description explicitly says is that the edge of the pit is sloped dangerously down, to the point of needing future saves even if one is outside the AoE of the pit proper. To say that a paralyzed pc somehow balances precariously on the edge is actually saying that the edge, rather than sloping down like an ant-lion's trap, includes basically flat surfaces protruding out into the aoe of the hole proper. The geometry is impossible, and that's before the issue of the spell description never saying anything of the sort.
Create pit is just a badly written spell. It still doesn't change the fact that a reflex save, by default, does not require any movement at all. Create pit is an exception (one that is specifically called out), not the rule.
Actually, yes it absolutely does. Think about it.
A successful Reflex Save = movement.
If movement is impossible, then necessarily so is the save because per the spell description, a save involves movement. Not just "fluff" movement, but discrete on-the-grid movment to outside the aoe.
The first statement does not necessarily mean the second. You're arguing that movement is a requirement to make the save, I'm arguing that the movement is merely an effect of the save. If you make the save, you move. Whether or not that movement would be legal under other circumstances is irrelevant.
The geometry is impossible, and that's before the issue of the spell description never saying anything of the sort.
The spell doesn't say "You're denied your reflex save if the room is too small or if your movement speed is insufficient" either.
It seems strange to essentially invent text for part of your interpretation and then say "the rules dont' say it works that way" for another part.
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The first statement does not necessarily mean the second...Actually, yes it absolutely does. Think about it.
A successful Reflex Save = movement.
If movement is impossible, then necessarily so is the save because per the spell description, a save involves movement. Not just "fluff" movement, but discrete on-the-grid movment to outside the aoe.
Actually, it does. But hey, your table, your rules. I'm actually pretty big on that. I play "GM, may I?" rather than "Player, may I?"
The geometry is impossible, and that's before the issue of the spell description never saying anything of the sort.The spell doesn't say "You're denied your reflex save if the room is too small or if your movement speed is insufficient" either.
It seems strange to essentially invent text for part of your interpretation and then say "the rules dont' say it works that way" for another part.
Uh, for the record despite my philosophical support for "my table; my rules" I'm the one arguing from a literal reading of the RAW here.
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Create pit is just a badly written spell. It still doesn't change the fact that a reflex save, by default, does not require any movement at all. Create pit is an exception (one that is specifically called out), not the rule.
I can agree with everything Jeraa said. However, Create Pit making their excepion opens the door for additional exeptions.
Actually, it does.
But it doesn't.
The text says that you move if you succeed on the reflex save. That's it. It doesn't say "jump to safety... unless." You just move to the nearest open space, whether or not you could legally reach that space under normal circumstances never enters into it.
Uh, for the record despite my philosophical support for "my table; my rules" I'm the one arguing from a literal reading of the RAW here.
Debatable. You say that, but I see a lot of stuff you're inferring that isn't actually in the spell's description.
The whole "oh your houserule is great but I'm talking about RAW" is a pretty tired debating trick, too.
I was talking to any specific person.
I meant to say I was not talking to any specific person.
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Personally I think create pit deserves it's own FAQ. If you want I can create one.
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Actually, it does.But it doesn't.
The text says that you move if you succeed on the reflex save. That's it. It doesn't say "jump to safety... unless." You just move to the nearest open space, whether or not you could legally reach that space under normal circumstances never enters into it.
Uh, for the record despite my philosophical support for "my table; my rules" I'm the one arguing from a literal reading of the RAW here.Debatable. You say that, but I see a lot of stuff you're inferring that isn't actually in the spell's description.
The whole "oh your houserule is great but I'm talking about RAW" is a pretty tired debating trick, too.
You know, I did actually quote the relevant text linking a successful save with moving to a non-pit square. Why don't I go ahead and quote not just that bit again.. but the entire spell description again:
You create a 10-foot-by-10-foot extradimensional hole with a depth of 10 feet per two caster levels (maximum 30 feet). You must create the pit on a horizontal surface of sufficient size. Since it extends into another dimension, the pit has no weight and does not otherwise displace the original underlying material. You can create the pit in the deck of a ship as easily as in a dungeon floor or the ground of a forest. Any creature standing in the area where you first conjured the pit must make a Reflex saving throw to jump to safety in the nearest open space. In addition, the edges of the pit are sloped, and any creature ending its turn on a square adjacent to the pit must make a Reflex saving throw with a +2 bonus to avoid falling into it. Creatures subjected to an effect intended to push them into the pit (such as bull rush) do not get a saving throw to avoid falling in if they are affected by the pushing effect.
Creatures who fall into the pit take falling damage as normal. The pit's coarse stone walls have a Climb DC of 25. When the duration of the spell ends, creatures within the hole rise up with the bottom of the pit until they are standing on the surface over the course of a single round.
(again, relevant text necessarily linking a successful save with moving at least 1 square on the battlemat is bolded)
Squiggit I guess you and I can disagree all night about whether or not "Any creature standing in the area where you first conjured the pit must make a Reflex saving throw to jump to safety in the nearest open space" means that if movement to the nearest open space is impossible then a successful save is also impossible.
So, how about we look elsewhere in the spell for some clues into RAI? Like, specifically, the last line of the 1st paragraph? A creature that finds itself pushed into the pit gets no save? I'm being accused of improperly inferring into the text, so let's talk about inferrances. Why do you think someone pushed into the pit gets no reflex save? Could it be because they are in the pit aoe and unable at that moment to move, so they automatically fall?
That doesn't even sound a little like being paralyzed inside the pit aoe when it opens in the first place? We're not talking about the inappropriateness of not getting any save at all. The spell already explicitly allows for NO SAVE under certain immobility-like circumstances.
Personally I think create pit deserves it's own FAQ. If you want I can create one.
Endorse.
Personally I think create pit deserves it's own FAQ. If you want I can create one.
Clearly we are going to have too.
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The first statement does not necessarily mean the second...Actually, yes it absolutely does. Think about it.
A successful Reflex Save = movement.
If movement is impossible, then necessarily so is the save because per the spell description, a save involves movement. Not just "fluff" movement, but discrete on-the-grid movment to outside the aoe.
deusvult, you are missing an important factor here.
You create a 10-foot-by-10-foot extradimensional hole with a depth of 10 feet per two caster levels (maximum 30 feet). You must create the pit on a horizontal surface of sufficient size. Since it extends into another dimension, the pit has no weight and does not otherwise displace the original underlying material. You can create the pit in the deck of a ship as easily as in a dungeon floor or the ground of a forest. Any creature standing in the area where you first conjured the pit must make a Reflex saving throw to jump to safety in the nearest open space. In addition, the edges of the pit are sloped, and any creature ending its turn on a square adjacent to the pit must make a Reflex saving throw with a +2 bonus to avoid falling into it. Creatures subjected to an effect intended to push them into the pit (such as bull rush) do not get a saving throw to avoid falling in if they are affected by the pushing effect.
Creatures who fall into the pit take falling damage as normal. The pit's coarse stone walls have a Climb DC of 25. When the duration of the spell ends, creatures within the hole rise up with the bottom of the pit until they are standing on the surface over the course of a single round.
If Create Pit is cast in a 10x10x10 room (you have been forgetting an entire dimension) with no ledges or anything around the pit then the "nearest open space" is the bottom of the pit. The spell does not say "a successful reflex save forces you to jump to a space outside the pit". If they make the reflex save in this case they will land safely on the bottom of the pit without taking any falling damage.
If Create Pit is cast in a 10x10x10 room (you have been forgetting an entire dimension) with no ledges or anything around the pit then the "nearest open space" is the bottom of the pit. The spell does not say "a successful reflex save forces you to jump to a space outside the pit". If they make the reflex save in this case they will land safely on the bottom of the pit without taking any falling damage.
This works for Create Pit, but not for higher level versions of the spell, where the bottom of the pit is not "safe."
Not that I would rule it any differently in a real game, even with an Acid Pit.