Why No Elves As a Core Race?


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President, Jon Brazer Enterprises

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Simple straight forward question: Why are elves not a core race, from the races we know about thus far? They are already a space-faring race in pathfinder and they are one of the more popular races in the game, so why not?

[silliness]
My theory: elves cause cancer. No one wants to be around them in a confined ship (aside from other elves) for a prolonged period of time because long term exposure to elven radiation gives other races cancer. Even androids.
[/silliness]

Also, I'd say that the designers wanted to do something new.

Do you have a theory why elves or any of the other core races are not core here (serious or silly)?


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We already know that Golarion and Castrovel elves are (or were) masters of traveling via gates. Since it seems that much of Starfinder's focus is one the Absalom Station and travel via spaceships, elves are outside the spotlight. I imagine they'll still be more common in Starfinder than say tieflings or aasimars are in Pathfinder.

Also, as a GM and a player, it's nice to take a break from the old core races and explore what can be done with these "newer" ones. The Starfinder core races will be less entrenched in gamers' minds, which allows greater range and freedom. I imagine some gamers will still fall back on old tropes (like Become a Real Boy for androids, or cheese obsession for ratfolk/ysoki), but I hope there will be much less "That's not something a dwarf/halfing/elf/etc. would think or do" pushback.


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I figured it was a ploy to get the Talislanta fans on board. :)


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Ambrosia Slaad wrote:

We already know that Golarion and Castrovel elves are (or were) masters of traveling via gates. Since it seems that much of Starfinder's focus is one the Absalom Station and travel via spaceships, elves are outside the spotlight. I imagine they'll still be more common in Starfinder than say tieflings or aasimars are in Pathfinder.

Also, as a GM and a player, it's nice to take a break from the old core races and explore what can be done with these "newer" ones. The Starfinder core races will be less entrenched in gamers' minds, which allows greater range and freedom. I imagine some gamers will still fall back on old tropes (like Become a Real Boy for androids, or cheese obsession for ratfolk/ysoki), but I hope there will be much less "That's not something a dwarf/halfing/elf/etc. would think or do" pushback.

I myself am hoping for planetouched races of alien descent! It's not hard to imagine planets influenced heavily by one plane or other, and thus being heavily populated by half-angel/demon/genie/etc versions of local species.

Liberty's Edge

Id rather have 'new' races that just arnt variations on the Genasi. You could have an extremely tall, thin boned race that comes from a very low Gravity world/asteroid belt, or a short squat creature (but not a Dwarf) that comes from a high gravity world. You could have a naturally fire resistant race from a World which is extremely volcanically active. Perhaps they can hold their breathe longer because their own air is quite toxic.

Grand Lodge

I believe it is sort of implied Elves adapt really slowly to drastic changes due to their longevity and how their society works. In a rapidly changing world, it is no wonder that the kind of catastrophe that would cause Golarion to just vanish might wipe the race away.

Liberty's Edge

Golarion disappears with many fellow elves on it, apparently because of divine action. Surely it must be somehow the humans' fault, including human deities. Damn round ears

Elves on Castrovel reject all contact with other planets and especially anything having to do with humans. They might come to distrust gods, especially those with close ties to humans

Changing this mindset will take time


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Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Some possibilities might be:

1) Elves are generally implied to have a connection with their environment. It's possible that while they might travel via the artifact gates that allow transportation throughout the Golarion system, actually traveling through space might seem repulsive or at least unpleasant or undesireable for many elves, while other races might be more willing to get into their spaceships and explore the dangers of space.

1a) A subset of this might be that elves require a particular sort of environment to really flourish, one that was present on Castrovel and Golarion to a lesser extent, but many worlds are hard for elves to survive on.

2) Elves simply don't breed quickly enough to remain a significant presence. While fairly populous on Castrovel and Golarion, once more and more territory becomes available as people spread to new planets and new star systems, the longer-lived but slow to reproduce elves might simply find themselves at a disadvantage when it comes to filling that new living space quickly. So elves are present, but they've quickly become a miniscule fraction of the overall population everywhere but Castrovel, with humans and other such taking up much larger percentages of the overall population.

Just a few possible theories, and of course, all of them could be potentially true to some extent.


Lady Funnyhat wrote:
Ambrosia Slaad wrote:

We already know that Golarion and Castrovel elves are (or were) masters of traveling via gates. Since it seems that much of Starfinder's focus is one the Absalom Station and travel via spaceships, elves are outside the spotlight. I imagine they'll still be more common in Starfinder than say tieflings or aasimars are in Pathfinder.

Also, as a GM and a player, it's nice to take a break from the old core races and explore what can be done with these "newer" ones. The Starfinder core races will be less entrenched in gamers' minds, which allows greater range and freedom. I imagine some gamers will still fall back on old tropes (like Become a Real Boy for androids, or cheese obsession for ratfolk/ysoki), but I hope there will be much less "That's not something a dwarf/halfing/elf/etc. would think or do" pushback.

I myself am hoping for planetouched races of alien descent! It's not hard to imagine planets influenced heavily by one plane or other, and thus being heavily populated by half-angel/demon/genie/etc versions of local species.

Don't the rules for the various 0 HD native outsiders already say that those descended from non-human humanoids have the same stats as those with human ancestors?


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I may be alone with this but I think that putting classic races in such a different context could do exactly what people claim excluding them from the setting would accomplishg. It would give Paizo a chance to reinvent the classic races changing classical racial stereotypes.


why not do something more original than porting all the old races and space-ifying them? Fantasy races in space are boring and extremely overused trope.

Warhammer 40k being a big example of where its been done before and done well.


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assuming that race stat design is not significantly altered (and i don't think it will be), I don't really think elves are all that important. I would rather see new races or races that are bare bones get more love.


MMCJawa wrote:
assuming that race stat design is not significantly altered (and i don't think it will be), I don't really think elves are all that important. I would rather see new races or races that are bare bones get more love.

Trox, Ghoran, and Astomoi.

Just to name a few races that could use some fleshing out.

Heck, even Reptoids could use some love.


XLordxErebusX wrote:

Heck, even Reptoids could use some love.

{smiling} Kinkyyyy. (Sorry, couldn't resist.)


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Dale McCoy Jr wrote:

Simple straight forward question: Why are elves not a core race, from the races we know about thus far? They are already a space-faring race in pathfinder and they are one of the more popular races in the game, so why not?

Probably to be consistent with Golarion lore: a threat to the world appeared, so they ran away again.


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Considering what going underground and bumping into the nastiness down there did to them, I shudder to think of what an elf might succumb to out in the blackness between the stars...


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Saul Gallows wrote:
Considering what going underground and bumping into the nastiness down there did to them, I shudder to think of what an elf might succumb to out in the blackness between the stars...

You got an interesting avatar... one "friend" of that guy is EXACTLY teh answer to your question, you know...

:P


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Dale McCoy Jr wrote:
My theory: elves cause cancer.

My grandmother DIED of elven cancer! It was given to her by an elven witch!

Silliness aside I have read in a recent interview at Geek & Sundry that all the base races in common Pathfinder are available in Starfinder including elves. The Lashunta, Ratmen, and Androids are also definitely in along with at least 2 heretofor unpublished hard sci fi style alien races.

They want to make most of the new races alien rather than fantasy since the latter are so well covered already in their products.

As well they are making a concerted effort that when they introduce new races, creatures and monsters many of those will playable as PC's.

Sovereign Court

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Elves are guilty !
Them's the ones who hid Golarion somewhere !


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

I think the main reason we won't see most races is that they weren't offworld at the time. Halflings, gnomes, dwarves, etc may have no interest in space. Elves resist change, thus I doubt many would take to slave regularly. Humans, however... well we did go to space. Then golarion suddenly vanishes. Where was everyone? On golarion. Except those who weren't. So while there are plenty of cool ideas for where dwarves or elves could've gone, the better question is would they be there? Probably not.

Liberty's Edge

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Actually 40K does have elves. Their the Eldar. They do change a few minor things yet they are elves in space.


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2ndGenerationCleric wrote:
I think the main reason we won't see most races is that they weren't offworld at the time. Halflings, gnomes, dwarves, etc may have no interest in space. Elves resist change, thus I doubt many would take to slave regularly. Humans, however... well we did go to space. Then golarion suddenly vanishes. Where was everyone? On golarion. Except those who weren't. So while there are plenty of cool ideas for where dwarves or elves could've gone, the better question is would they be there? Probably not.

The problem here is that elves are already a spacefaring race. They are on both Golarion and Castrovel, and have a gate network that goes to a few other planets.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Also, doesn't the stuff we have to date indicate that massive chunks- if not the entirety- of Golarion's population got moved to Absalom Station?


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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Dunno. Was just a thought. As for the gate network, I'm sure their out there. But maybe not as prevalently as the fast multiplying humans.


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With their preternatural pointy-eared hearing, they would eliminate the possibility for any number of "In space no one can hear you..." jokes.


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It's probably a temporary thing. After suitable time for development and foreshadowing, we will encounter the Star Elves: Highly logical, long-lived, and prosperous.


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UnArcaneElection wrote:

It's probably a temporary thing. After suitable time for development and foreshadowing, we will encounter the Star Elves: Highly logical, long-lived, and prosperous.

"Och man, di ye wanna get sued?!"


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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

I wouldn't be surprised if that was the reason tbh


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quibblemuch wrote:
UnArcaneElection wrote:

It's probably a temporary thing. After suitable time for development and foreshadowing, we will encounter the Star Elves: Highly logical, long-lived, and prosperous.

"Och man, di ye wanna get sued?!"

If elves can survive the Tolkien lawyers the Paramount ones should be pushovers. Even the unholy combination of Trump and Palpatine wasn't willing to take on the Tolkien lawyers...(yes, that IS a Sith Apprentice reference)


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In canon, Golarion's Elves are said to adapt to different environments, both physically and sometimes supernaturally, sometimes within a single generation. Just sayin'.


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I think classic races could be an interesting part of the the Starfinder universe, but I think we already know how they would function in space environments. Additionally, Elves do tend to steal the spotlight in just about any environment they are in. I think there is a lot of opportunity for exploring other cultures. By all means Elves, Dwarves, Gnomes, Orcs, Halflings and so forth should be included, but I think the focus should shift to other races. We already have a pretty detailed cultural profile of the classic races, let's see what other ones have to offer.

Speaking for myself, I would love to see Samarasans fleshed out.


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James Sutter is the lead desiger on Starfinder. Below is a relevant quote from his interview at Geek and Sundry on this topic.

James Sutter at Geek and Sundry wrote:
I think that especially in a science fiction game, interacting with other cultures, other races, is sort of part of the charm. So I think there’ll be a push to make them playable more often then we normally would. So that said, the races that’ll be in the core game…First off, all of the Pathfinder races you’re familiar with. Elves, dwarves, gnomes, halflings, those will all be in the core rulebook. But the focus is more on races that you couldn’t play in Pathfinder, stuff that’s more alien and science fictional, both familiar and new. One of the ones we showed at the [announcement] last night are the ysoki ratfolk from Akaton. We’ve had ratfolk in the game for a long time, but this is a society of ratfolk that is very civilized, very high-tech, they’ve got a little bit of the Jawas in them.

Bolding is mine. So elves ARE in the core races.

Can read the whole article here.


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Being in the Core game is not the same as being a Core race. Orcs snd goblibs and bugbears are in the Core game since day 1. They are in the bestiary, just not an easy race to play with, as they aren't a Core race. Because the focus is to play with rlves, dwsrves and halflings


gustavo iglesias wrote:
Being in the Core game is not the same as being a Core race. Orcs snd goblibs and bugbears are in the Core game since day 1. They are in the bestiary, just not an easy race to play with, as they aren't a Core race. Because the focus is to play with rlves, dwsrves and halflings

Bestiary =/= Core Rulebook


IonutRO wrote:
gustavo iglesias wrote:
Being in the Core game is not the same as being a Core race. Orcs snd goblibs and bugbears are in the Core game since day 1. They are in the bestiary, just not an easy race to play with, as they aren't a Core race. Because the focus is to play with rlves, dwsrves and halflings
Bestiary =/= Core Rulebook

Core game =/= Core rule book


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gustavo iglesias wrote:
IonutRO wrote:
gustavo iglesias wrote:
Being in the Core game is not the same as being a Core race. Orcs snd goblibs and bugbears are in the Core game since day 1. They are in the bestiary, just not an easy race to play with, as they aren't a Core race. Because the focus is to play with rlves, dwsrves and halflings
Bestiary =/= Core Rulebook
Core game =/= Core rule book
James Sutter at Geek and Sundry wrote:
First off, all of the Pathfinder races you’re familiar with. Elves, dwarves, gnomes, halflings, those will all be in the core rulebook.

Acquisitives

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
I figured it was a ploy to get the Talislanta fans on board. :)

No Elves! Thousands of Elf-Analogues!


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Tune in next week, on Oo'Prah the Undying show as I talk about my new pop-up book, Elves are Analogues, Dwarves are Digitals. That's Fireday, 4:00PM Akiton Standard Time on the NuAbsalom Network.


Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

My guess is that Starfinder Elves will be changed less from Pathfinder Elves than Starfinder Humans will be from Pathfinder Humans. After all, in the new setting, Humans, Ratfolk, Lashunta, and Androids will all have to be more or less competitive with one another, but the "old" Pathfinder races, being out of the spotlight, might potentially be left in a weaker state.

So I think we can take it as confirmed that you can play an Elf in Starfinder. Whether anyone other than a diehard Elf fan will want to is another question entirely.

Creative Director, Starfinder Team

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"Classic" Pathfinder races like elves are indeed in the core rulebook. They just get less limelight than the new races.


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Echo Vining wrote:
2ndGenerationCleric wrote:
I think the main reason we won't see most races is that they weren't offworld at the time. Halflings, gnomes, dwarves, etc may have no interest in space. Elves resist change, thus I doubt many would take to slave regularly. Humans, however... well we did go to space. Then golarion suddenly vanishes. Where was everyone? On golarion. Except those who weren't. So while there are plenty of cool ideas for where dwarves or elves could've gone, the better question is would they be there? Probably not.
The problem here is that elves are already a spacefaring race. They are on both Golarion and Castrovel, and have a gate network that goes to a few other planets.

The elves didn't traverse space to get to Golarion from Castrovel, they used portals. Distant Worlds seems to indicate that neither group of elves have any space traveling capability, nor interest in developing such. As to the gates themselves, they seem to be the creation of an unknown third party.


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Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

The gate network doesn't exactly belong to the elves, either...the one that goes from Castrovel to Golarion just happens to be in elven territory, much as the one from Castrovel to Akiton lies in lashunta territory. I believe it's stated that they didn't create the interplanetary network (which is incredibly ancient), they just make use of it, and studying it allowed a particularly skilled elf to create lesser versions known as aiudara (or elf gates) that can 'only' go from place to place on the same world.


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Luthorne wrote:
I believe it's stated that they didn't create the interplanetary network (which is incredibly ancient), they just make use of it, and studying it allowed a particularly skilled elf to create lesser versions known as aiudara (or elf gates) that can 'only' go from place to place on the same world.

Which seems to be a technique they no longer posses. Nor do they have all of the activation keys for the gates that do still exist.


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Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
Luthorne wrote:
I believe it's stated that they didn't create the interplanetary network (which is incredibly ancient), they just make use of it, and studying it allowed a particularly skilled elf to create lesser versions known as aiudara (or elf gates) that can 'only' go from place to place on the same world.
Which seems to be a technique they no longer posses. Nor do they have all of the activation keys for the gates that do still exist.

Indeed. Should have properly mentioned that. It's a lost art, regardless of whether or not they made the interstellar ones - which they didn't. Actually, the interstellar portal network and its creators are something I also hope gets touched on in Starfinder, if only as a big mystery now that their existence is probably more well-known...


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I wonder where the portal on Castrovel that used to go to Golarion now goes to?


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Luthorne wrote:
Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
Luthorne wrote:
I believe it's stated that they didn't create the interplanetary network (which is incredibly ancient), they just make use of it, and studying it allowed a particularly skilled elf to create lesser versions known as aiudara (or elf gates) that can 'only' go from place to place on the same world.
Which seems to be a technique they no longer posses. Nor do they have all of the activation keys for the gates that do still exist.
Indeed. Should have properly mentioned that. It's a lost art, regardless of whether or not they made the interstellar ones - which they didn't. Actually, the interstellar portal network and its creators are something I also hope gets touched on in Starfinder, if only as a big mystery now that their existence is probably more well-known...

Or less known, considering that the bulk of known elf gates vanished with Golarion.


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UnArcaneElection wrote:

I wonder where the portal on Castrovel that used to go to Golarion now goes to?

Assuming it still exists... it might go to nowhere.

"Then this is your chance to get away from it all."


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Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
Luthorne wrote:
Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
Luthorne wrote:
I believe it's stated that they didn't create the interplanetary network (which is incredibly ancient), they just make use of it, and studying it allowed a particularly skilled elf to create lesser versions known as aiudara (or elf gates) that can 'only' go from place to place on the same world.
Which seems to be a technique they no longer posses. Nor do they have all of the activation keys for the gates that do still exist.
Indeed. Should have properly mentioned that. It's a lost art, regardless of whether or not they made the interstellar ones - which they didn't. Actually, the interstellar portal network and its creators are something I also hope gets touched on in Starfinder, if only as a big mystery now that their existence is probably more well-known...
Or less known, considering that the bulk of known elf gates vanished with Golarion.

Not the elf gates, the interplanetary gate network. While the elves on Golarion kept the one between Golarion and Castrovel a secret, and I believe there's one connecting Golarion and Akiton that the leads into the Mwangi that the contemplatives of Akiton are toying with with sporadic success, but I got the impression that the one between Castrovel and Akiton was pretty much open knowledge, and I think there's supposed to be ones on every planet save Aucturn (because that's not really a plaaaaanet). I'd have to go reread Distant Worlds but I remember a lot of hints about ancient precursor aliens (Annunaki perhaps?) involved and a possible test involving a particularly incomprehensible portal on...Apostae? But I could be wrong.

Though if I recall correctly, I think there may actually be elf gates on Castrovel, but yeah, I don't care about them as much...

Liberty's Edge

Mmm. No Golarion means no Drows, right ?

Silver Crusade

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The Raven Black wrote:
Mmm. No Golarion means no Drows, right ?

Worse.

Dark Tapestry Drow!

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