Question on pregen 'timing'


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Shadow Lodge 4/5

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BigNorseWolf wrote:
TOZ wrote:
Another success for overly legalistic interpretation of the rules I guess.
Im really not finding it so.

"This situation can be read this way, so now we're going to tighten the language up to either forbid or permit it" isn't a result of the splitting of hairs in this thread?

5/5 5/55/55/5

TOZ wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:

"This situation can be read this way, so now we're going to tighten the language up to either forbid or permit it" isn't a result of the splitting of hairs in this thread?

Hair splitting would have less support and more motive.

Silver Crusade 5/5

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Hey guys, maybe it's time for us all to take a step back maybe come back to this once emotions aren't running quite so high.

The Exchange 5/5

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so - here's the next installment of Jo and her continuing (fictional example) attempts to play "Shrine of the Awakener" tier (5-7).

Background: Jo is currently in the 6th level doldrums, almost 7th level, having 17xp.... and she has 3 chronicles gained from 7th level Pregens "banked", waiting for when she get's that 18th xp and 7th level. (a tier 5-9 on the 1st, a tier 3-7 on the 8th, and a third one for another tier 3-7 on the 15th - all played as a 7th level pregen)....

Now (on the 22nd)- because they are mostly 6th and 7th level, her crew has decided to play Emerald Spire level 8, the Shrine of the Awakener (Tier 5-7) and she's available to play...

If Jo were to play, this would raise her XP to 20, that bumps her to level 7.2, and her "banked" chronicles begin to be assigned. The question seems to be, are they assigned in one lump, or one at a time (leveling in between as needed). If it's one at a time, the chronicle from the 1st puts her to level 8.0 with 21xp, which means the games from the 8th and the 15th are now invalid, because she would be outside the Tier for them. Therefore, it looks like she cannot play Emerald Spire level 8, the Shrine of the Awakener (Tier 5-7) with this character, as doing so would render two of her existing "banked" chronicles invalid. (Even though she is solidly inside the tier (5-7), playing her would create a paradox where she would have credit assigned to her she could not have.)

If the player doesn't have another PC in that level range, they would need to run an Iconic and assign it to a PC of lower level... say one of 6th level (like Jo). If assigned to Jo, then later when Jo finally get's her 18th XP and levels she would be able to gain the first three "Banked" chronicles (from the 1st, 8th and 15th of the month) ...but not the one from the Shrine of the Awakener (Tier 5-7), as she would now be 8th level and could not gain credit for it - am I understanding this correctly? We now (before actually playing a game) need to calculate what level a PC will be after assigning any unassigned ("banked") XP they have, so that they do not "level out" of any games they may have waiting to be assigned...

(side note) This is interesting, because if she were to have played the game from the 1st LAST rather than first, and played an Iconic rather than her actual (in tier) PC for Shrine, she would have been able to gain all the credit on that PC? or am I just mixed up?

I'm still kind of wondering, what happens to the chronicles/games that are no longer valid? Can she play them again for credit? or are they just "lost"?

(edit: heck, someone less honest than me would just change the date on the first chronicle from the 1st to the 31st and everything would work fine - except she would have to play an Iconic in Shrine of the Awakener...)

Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 ** Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden

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Wow. This is a pretty complicated question actually. I think there are quite a few odd turns and possible circumstances that someone might end up in, without any evil intent, that no Guide writer has anticipated so far. I don't think anyone's really trying to take advantage here, just trying to wrap our heads around it because "pregen chronicle holding accidents happen".

So we should certainly have a good exploratory discussion to try to find them so that there's useful input for writing the next Guide.

nosig is grasping at the same question I am:

Let's say my #-666 ("The Beast") is at level 3 and I play three 3-7 scenarios with a level 7 pregen and assign them to The Beast.

Time passes. The Beast makes it to level 6.2, 1 XP away from level 7 when those three held chronicles will be applied.

Now I play a module which gets me 3 XP. I go to 7.2 and start to apply held chronicles. After applying the first one, I'm at 8.0, so a bit high for the two remaining held 3-7 chronicles. What happens to them?

---

I believe that under the current language, you just apply them. Right now you're only looking at the following:
1) Does the pregen fit the scenario's level range?
2) At the moment of playing the scenario with the pregen is your PC low enough level that you can assign credit from a pregen of the chosen level?

It's not good for your WBL, but it does make the whole thing "fit". You avoid ugly "artifacts" such as:


  • You can't apply this held chronicle ever because you've leveled past it.
  • You're not allowed to play the module with that PC, because it would create a levelup conflict with the held chronicles. Even though your PC is clearly in-tier for the module.
  • You have to reassign a held chronicle to a different character because this one no longer qualifies for it.

All of those are awful. The lesser evil of allowing a PC to run behind on gold awards though perhaps scooping up a few scenario-specific boons or equipment options is basically, well, a lesser evil.

Silver Crusade 5/5

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I agree with Lau.

Liberty's Edge 5/5

Lau Bannenberg wrote:


Let's say my #-666 ("The Beast") is at level 3 and I play three 3-7 scenarios with a level 7 pregen and assign them to The Beast.

Time passes. The Beast makes it to level 6.2, 1 XP away from level 7 when those three held chronicles will be applied.

Now I play a module which gets me 3 XP. I go to 7.2 and start to apply held chronicles. After applying the first one, I'm at 8.0, so a bit high for the two remaining held 3-7 chronicles. What happens to them?

---

The easy answer is that you don't play the module with that character because you'll be invalidating the chronicles you have awaiting.

EDIT: I am not understanding why this is a horrible option to be honest. If your character were 8th level, he couldn't play that anyways. The point is, that just because your character currently qualifies for a scenario doesn't mean he actually does qualify. When you have credits waiting you, those have to be taken into account.

Silver Crusade 5/5

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Andrew Christian wrote:
Lau Bannenberg wrote:


Let's say my #-666 ("The Beast") is at level 3 and I play three 3-7 scenarios with a level 7 pregen and assign them to The Beast.

Time passes. The Beast makes it to level 6.2, 1 XP away from level 7 when those three held chronicles will be applied.

Now I play a module which gets me 3 XP. I go to 7.2 and start to apply held chronicles. After applying the first one, I'm at 8.0, so a bit high for the two remaining held 3-7 chronicles. What happens to them?

---

The easy answer is that you don't play the module with that character because you'll be invalidating the chronicles you have awaiting.

EDIT: I am not understanding why this is a horrible option to be honest. If your character were 8th level, he couldn't play that anyways. The point is, that just because your character currently qualifies for a scenario doesn't mean he actually does qualify. When you have credits waiting you, those have to be taken into account.

It's easy to say "plan ahead better." But things can easily happen to make plans change, especially since a lot of new and inexperienced players tend to be the ones mainly playing pregens (though they are not the only ones), and in this case I think think it would be better to just have some credit get applied at the wrong level than to have a player lose out on credit for playing because a wrench got thrown into their plans.

Liberty's Edge 3/5 5/5 **** Venture-Captain, Nebraska—Omaha

Andrew Christian wrote:


EDIT: I am not understanding why this is a horrible option to be honest. If your character were 8th level, he couldn't play that anyways. The point is, that just because your character currently qualifies for a scenario doesn't mean he actually does qualify. When you have credits waiting you, those have to be taken into account.

I will not try to speak for others but for me the Guide is pretty clear and simple. Apply the chronicles even if you were to gain several levels.

Shadow Lodge 4/5

Gary Bush wrote:
Apply the chronicles even if you were to gain several levels.

Where in that text does it allow you to break the rule 'your character must be in the chronicle's tier to receive credit for the chronicle'?

3/5 *

Quote the text and then ask where is the text I'm looking for!!

That's the rule, apply them, and apply them even if you level, even if you gain several levels.

I agree the guide is pretty clear and simple on this. You just apply them.

Those of you reading it some other way, I'm sorry but how can you imagine that they intend to create some convoluted situation where you may no longer qualify to play something in the past

There's the simple reading and the cluster f*** reading.

Go with simple.

Grand Lodge 4/5

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber
plaidwandering wrote:

Quote the text and then ask where is the text I'm looking for!!

That's the rule, apply them, and apply them even if you level, even if you gain several levels.

Even if you advance multiple levels =/= you can apply chronicles that you are out of tier for.

Liberty's Edge 4/5

Steven Schopmeyer wrote:
plaidwandering wrote:

Quote the text and then ask where is the text I'm looking for!!

That's the rule, apply them, and apply them even if you level, even if you gain several levels.

Even if you advance multiple levels =/= you can apply chronicles that you are out of tier for.

But you weren't out of tier when you played and assigned the chronicle, only when you applied it. The guide only calls out assignment with respect to relative level, not application. Then it explains what to do when applying the chronicles. apply <> assign.

5/5

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I've actually been convinced by the "Yes, apply them" crowd. Two major reasons:

1. ..it happens - While you can and should avoid it in the first place, if it happens, it happens, and trying to fix it afterwards could be incredibly difficult (Con games in particular).

2. It's Done - You *did* play a L.7 character in the scenario. All gold and such are assigned based on playing a L.7 character (whether 3-7, 5-9, or 7-11, in-subtier or out-of-subtier). So it may be strange, but the chronicle reflects the benefits that should be received.

(3.) Who cares? - Plus there's just no way to abuse this - it can only be bad for you, truly. Especially burning up so many precious 3-7 scenarios!

If new language says 'no' that's fine. It certainly *shouldn't* happen. But new language will need to include solutions for when it *does* happen.

Grand Lodge 4/5

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber
Majuba wrote:
But new language will need to include solutions for when it *does* happen.

I do agree with that, and I realize arguing about what they currently say is pointless at this juncture. So I apologize for wasting peoples time.

Liberty's Edge 3/5 5/5 **** Venture-Captain, Nebraska—Omaha

Captain Tally-Ho! wrote:
But you weren't out of tier when you played and assigned the chronicle, only when you applied it. The guide only calls out assignment with respect to relative level, not application. Then it explains what to do when applying the chronicles. apply <> assign.

Thank you Captain! That is the exactly what I have been trying to say.

3/5 *

TOZ wrote:
Where in that text does it allow you to break the rule 'your character must be in the chronicle's tier to receive credit for the chronicle'?

There is no such rule.

What you may be thinking of is on page 43, where it states that tier is a restriction for play

Which you meet by playing a pregen in the tier of the scenario.

There is also no rule that you may not apply a chronicle that you are out of tier for.

You guys are getting hung up on things that aren't there.

3/5 5/5

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This is clearly a matter on which reasonable people can disagree.

Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 ** Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden

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Andrew Christian wrote:
Lau Bannenberg wrote:


Let's say my #-666 ("The Beast") is at level 3 and I play three 3-7 scenarios with a level 7 pregen and assign them to The Beast.

Time passes. The Beast makes it to level 6.2, 1 XP away from level 7 when those three held chronicles will be applied.

Now I play a module which gets me 3 XP. I go to 7.2 and start to apply held chronicles. After applying the first one, I'm at 8.0, so a bit high for the two remaining held 3-7 chronicles. What happens to them?

---

The easy answer is that you don't play the module with that character because you'll be invalidating the chronicles you have awaiting.

EDIT: I am not understanding why this is a horrible option to be honest. If your character were 8th level, he couldn't play that anyways. The point is, that just because your character currently qualifies for a scenario doesn't mean he actually does qualify. When you have credits waiting you, those have to be taken into account.

I think it's a bad option because it creates a contradictory situation. I'm legal to play this module because I'm in-tier, but I'm not because after playing it some other credit would become invalidated. But what if by now I care more about playing this module than the credit for an adventure I played months ago? Am I forbidden from playing this module with an otherwise legal character? Or do I get to "risk" those held chronicles - even if the results on them were lackluster due to a poorly performed mission back then?

I think the situation created by the current language is much cleaner: you perform all checking when assigning credit to be held, not when applying held credit.

GtOP 7 page 21 wrote:

If you play a 1st-level pregenerated character, you

can apply the credit to a newly created character of
your very own. If you play a non-1st-level pregenerated
character, you choose one of your characters to assign
the chronicle to at the end of adventure, and then apply
the credit to your character as soon as she reaches the
level of the pregenerated character played. You may not
assign a Chronicle sheet earned with a pregenerated
character to a character that was already at the level
of the pregenerated character or higher. If you have
multiple Chronicle sheets from pregenerated characters,
they are applied to your character’s Chronicle sheet
stack in the order played when your character reaches
the appropriate level, even if this would advance your
character several levels
.

The current language doesn't say one way or the other if you can advance beyond the level range of held chronicles; it doesn't forbid it. AFAIK that's not actually forbidden anywhere. And why should it be? The rules are all about the level of the character that you play.

We don't want people playing in a 3-7 with a L8 character because it would be unbalancing. But is anyone else hurt if a L8 character ends up with the credit for a game played with a L7 pregen?

Liberty's Edge 5/5

I'm done arguing the point. A revision to this loophole has been suggested to Tonya.

Grand Lodge 2/5

Andrew Christian wrote:
I'm done arguing the point. A revision to this loophole has been suggested to Tonya.

Has "no revision" also been suggested because it looks like you're the minority with this opinion.

Liberty's Edge 3/5 5/5 **** Venture-Captain, Nebraska—Omaha

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We have discussed this question to the point of exhaustion, at on my part and i think others.

It is unfair to ask Andrew what his recommendation to Tonya is.

Lets just wait until Season 8 Guide comes out and we can then start the discussion again.

Liberty's Edge 5/5

claudekennilol wrote:
Andrew Christian wrote:
I'm done arguing the point. A revision to this loophole has been suggested to Tonya.
Has "no revision" also been suggested because it looks like you're the minority with this opinion.

No. Because obviously based on this thread, it needs to be clear one way or another. A revision is going to happen, even if it doesn't agree with my points.

And I am not a minority of the Venture Officers and other experienced posters in this thread.

And while I know nobody has really implied this, but it's gotten close or easy to infer, but I'm not using this lead position to assert my own personal agenda. When going through the suggestion process, I did have to make some decisions. When the language was unclear (or prompted discussions like this one even if I thought it was clear) I made note to Tonya, John, and Linda to clarify intent. It was a check I personally felt strong about and I can assure you I absolutely did not try to sneak any of my own personal things into the Guide.

So please rest assured that two things are true.

1)Tonya, John, and Linda are smart cookies, and know both sides to each issue.
2)I am being about as lawful as one could be through this process. Something I felt really important.

During a meeting I had with John and Tonya, there was one issue I've argued vehemently through the years over. I felt it needed clarification. John disagreed with my position, and so the suggested language disagrees with my opinion. But it should now be more clear.

But I won't be revealing all the suggestions, because Tonya and John deserve a chance to look them over and have any dialogue they feel necessary first.

But I really implore you to trust that I am not trying to implement any agenda or anything. I want things to be clear, even if I disagree with the clarification.

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/55/55/55/5 **** Venture-Captain, Minnesota

Andy, I know you personally and I've had the pleasure of meeting Tonya once. John and Linda I only know from these boards, but they read everything we post. I agree, they're smart cookies who will take not only your input, but everyone's.

Let's all take a deep breath.

Aaah. Better!

Decisions will be made. Some people will like them. Some people will hate them. Even after they're made, we'll likely be here arguing about them because we all love to argue!

That's okay. Let's just make the best arguments we can and trust that John, Tonya and Linda will try to come up with a good clarification.

Hmm

Silver Crusade 5/5

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Andrew Christian wrote:
I'm done arguing the point. A revision to this loophole has been suggested to Tonya.

I disagree with calling it a loophole, it seems like it is there intentionally to protect players. Paticularly newer and more inexperienced players who might have to play pregens and bank higher level multiple times for reasons beyond their control, like only having one or two characters.

But at this point, I think both sides have laid out heir positions about as well as we can, and it's time for us all to give this topic a break for now.

4/5 5/55/55/55/5 ****

Rules are based on allowance, not disallowance. Game Design 095.

Show where you are specifically allowed to break the tier limits.

Liberty's Edge 5/5

Mitch Mutrux wrote:
Andrew Christian wrote:
I'm done arguing the point. A revision to this loophole has been suggested to Tonya.

I disagree with calling it a loophole, it seems like it is there intentionally to protect players. Paticularly newer and more inexperienced players who might have to play pregens and bank higher level multiple times for reasons beyond their control, like only having one or two characters.

But at this point, I think both sides have laid out heir positions about as well as we can, and it's time for us all to give this topic a break for now.

The implications of how this might affect a newer player is not lost on me. This can be accommodated by local venture officers using thier discretion to reassign that credit if necessary.

Grand Lodge 5/5

Andrew Christian wrote:
Mitch Mutrux wrote:
Andrew Christian wrote:
I'm done arguing the point. A revision to this loophole has been suggested to Tonya.

I disagree with calling it a loophole, it seems like it is there intentionally to protect players. Paticularly newer and more inexperienced players who might have to play pregens and bank higher level multiple times for reasons beyond their control, like only having one or two characters.

But at this point, I think both sides have laid out heir positions about as well as we can, and it's time for us all to give this topic a break for now.

The implications of how this might affect a newer player is not lost on me. This can be accommodated by local venture officers using thier discretion to reassign that credit if necessary.

I think youre right, Andy. That said, assuming the ruling falls the way we both think it should, might I suggest clarifying language being added differentiating between 'Assigning' a chronicle and 'Applying' a chronicle? That seems like it would be beneficial in clearing up the language and the intended meaning.

Liberty's Edge 5/5

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godsDMit wrote:
Andrew Christian wrote:
Mitch Mutrux wrote:
Andrew Christian wrote:
I'm done arguing the point. A revision to this loophole has been suggested to Tonya.

I disagree with calling it a loophole, it seems like it is there intentionally to protect players. Paticularly newer and more inexperienced players who might have to play pregens and bank higher level multiple times for reasons beyond their control, like only having one or two characters.

But at this point, I think both sides have laid out heir positions about as well as we can, and it's time for us all to give this topic a break for now.

The implications of how this might affect a newer player is not lost on me. This can be accommodated by local venture officers using thier discretion to reassign that credit if necessary.
I think youre right, Andy. That said, assuming the ruling falls the way we both think it should, might I suggest clarifying language being added differentiating between 'Assigning' a chronicle and 'Applying' a chronicle? That seems like it would be beneficial in clearing up the language and the intended meaning.

Good idea. I'll take a look again.

3/5 5/5

"No revision" is probably not a good idea considering there is obvious disagreement on this point. I think the distinction between assigning and applying a chronicle is an important one. If you assume the restriction on assigning a chronicle also covers applying the chronicle, then the situation where you gain more than one level when you apply multiple chronicles can't actually happen, because you're no longer eligible to apply them once your character is above the level of the pregen, even if you're still in-tier.

Grand Lodge 5/5 Regional Venture-Coordinator, Baltic

Although applying lower tier credit to a higher tier character might be considered a bad decision, to me it is clear this can be "abused".

With the more freely interpretation (appyling a sheet even though the character itself is out of tier) I could GM credit a character to level 20 with tier 3-7 scenarios alone (apply 63 tier 3+ first, then apply 3 tier 1+). Clearly this is not what was intended.

Remember these rules are rules for a GAME. These are not rules to be fought over in court to determine someones 'guild' or 'innocence'.

For myself I use a simple rule: If it feels like a shortcut, I stay clear of it. If anyone else (ab?)uses it, I will (unwillingly) frown, sigh, and continue.

5/5 *****

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Auke Teeninga wrote:
With the more freely interpretation (appyling a sheet even though the character itself is out of tier) I could GM credit a character to level 20 with tier 3-7 scenarios alone (apply 63 tier 3+ first, then apply 3 tier 1+). Clearly this is not what was intended.

While you could technically do this I am having a hard time working out why on earth you would choose to do so or even what harm allowing someone to do so could do. You cannot play at level 20 and even if someone used it to access seeker level play you end up with a high level character with a tiny fraction of the wealth you should have.

I suppose you could use it to troll seeker groups but if that is the sort of thing you do I cant imagine you would get into such a group in the first place.

Silver Crusade 5/5

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andreww wrote:
Auke Teeninga wrote:
With the more freely interpretation (appyling a sheet even though the character itself is out of tier) I could GM credit a character to level 20 with tier 3-7 scenarios alone (apply 63 tier 3+ first, then apply 3 tier 1+). Clearly this is not what was intended.

While you could technically do this I am having a hard time working out why on earth you would choose to do so or even what harm allowing someone to do so could do. You cannot play at level 20 and even if someone used it to access seeker level play you end up with a high level character with a tiny fraction of the wealth you should have.

I suppose you could use it to troll seeker groups but if that is the sort of thing you do I cant imagine you would get into such a group in the first place.

+1.

1/5

Auke Teeninga wrote:

Although applying lower tier credit to a higher tier character might be considered a bad decision, to me it is clear this can be "abused".

With the more freely interpretation (appyling a sheet even though the character itself is out of tier) I could GM credit a character to level 20 with tier 3-7 scenarios alone (apply 63 tier 3+ first, then apply 3 tier 1+). Clearly this is not what was intended.

Remember these rules are rules for a GAME. These are not rules to be fought over in court to determine someones 'guild' or 'innocence'.

For myself I use a simple rule: If it feels like a shortcut, I stay clear of it. If anyone else (ab?)uses it, I will (unwillingly) frown, sigh, and continue.

Where is the "abuse" and how do you know it was "clearly not intended" Because I see it as clearly intended with the wording they've used. The abuse is you're now lvX with the gold of like lvX-4

5/5 *

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Can I come out now?

4/5

No.

Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 ** Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden

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I don't think "loophole" is the right term; I see it more as an "emergency release valve".

Yes, someone could theoretically abuse it to shortcut a character to L20. But that's a lot of work, for not really that much reward (some bragging rights right up until someone asks you for a L12 war story).

I think plugging that abuse isn't worth the lost option of cleanly handling the bona fide case.


BigNorseWolf wrote:
Thomas Hutchins wrote:
You could technically play so many lv4 pregens and apply them all to the same character that once you hit lv4 you'd jump all the way to lv20. You'd just have really bad gold for a lv20.

Wouldn't that be a way to break the level 20 barrier? Play every 7-11 with a pregen, apply the credit to a first level character , and shoot right from 7 to 30 ?

You can't apply a chronicle award to a character that's beyond the tier for it. i.e. you can't apply a 4-5 tier award to a level 9 character.

3/5 *

Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
You can't apply a chronicle award to a character that's beyond the tier for it.

You are going to need prove the existence of this rule to sway anyone. It's not in any relevant section of the guide.

3/5 5/5

That's what this thread is all about.

4/5 5/55/55/55/5 ****

plaidwandering wrote:
Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
You can't apply a chronicle award to a character that's beyond the tier for it.
You are going to need prove the existence of this rule to sway anyone. It's not in any relevant section of the guide.

Show where it specifically allows you to.

You are going to need to prove the existence of this rule to sway anyone. Its not in any relevant section of the guide.

1/5

Tempest_Knight wrote:
plaidwandering wrote:
Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
You can't apply a chronicle award to a character that's beyond the tier for it.
You are going to need prove the existence of this rule to sway anyone. It's not in any relevant section of the guide.

Show where it specifically allows you to.

You are going to need to prove the existence of this rule to sway anyone. Its not in any relevant section of the guide.

The rules allows you to because when you play a lv7 pregen 4 times in a row for a 3-7 you assign those chronicles at the end of each scenario to a character lower than the pregen. Then when that character reaches lv7 you apply all the chronicles. This makes the 4th 3-7 being applied to a now level 8 character.

when Assigning the only requirement listed is that the character is currently lower than the pregen. On applying it says apply all that are stacked in the order acquired. This is where it specifically allows you because it tells you your options and it's possible to do so. No rule says that "even though this rule says it's possible, it's really not possible."

Liberty's Edge 4/5

Thomas Hutchins wrote:

The rules allow you to because when you play a lv7 pregen 4 times in a row for a 3-7 you assign those chronicles at the end of each scenario to a character lower than the pregen. Then when that character reaches lv7 you apply all the chronicles. This makes the 4th 3-7 being applied to a now level 8 character.

when Assigning the only requirement listed is that the character is currently lower than the pregen. On applying it says apply all that are stacked in the order acquired. This is where it specifically allows you because it tells you your options and it's possible to do so. No rule says that "even though this rule says it's possible, it's really not possible."

This is correct. It may not be the intention of the rule, but the rules as written are quite explicit that this is how it works.

There are two steps: assigning and applying.

When assigning, you check only one thing: is the character lower level than the pregen played? If yes, you may assign it to that character. If no, you can't. Also, as a player, you must choose who gets the chronicle before you get the chronicle. Unless you've GM'd the scenario before, you won't know which character gets the most out of the chronicle until after you've decided who gets it. That knowledge is only held by GMs- who already have the chronicle available to any character that isn't currently past the tier.

When applying, as soon as a character achieves the level of a pregen she has been assigned, all pregens of that level are applied immediately and in order, even if this causes the character to level up more than once.

Those arguing that this is not how it works are arguing from a rules as intended perspective only, and many of us disagree that the intention is anything other than the wording in the rules.

All of this debate will hopefully be moot in a few months when the new guide comes out. I just hope we will be able to recognize that whichever way it falls, there is a reason for that decision. Either it is a potentially exploitable situation that the PFS team wants to avoid, or closing the door causes too many potential issues with bookkeeping and paperwork to be worth avoiding those few possibly exploitative cases. Both of these are perfectly reasonable positions to hold, and we must trust the PFS team to do what is best for our community.

Liberty's Edge 5/5

For the record, it is NOT explicit that it works that way. People are assuming that applying credit in order even if you level up means that.

It will be clarified.


godsDMit wrote:
Thomas Hutchins wrote:
Andrew Christian wrote:

Ensure a chastisement? That's not really an appropriate thing for a venture-officer to do. If you have issue with someone, send the issue to their local leadership and let it go. Continuing it up the chain like that just to ensure punishment is both petty and unbecoming.

Its also disrespectful of the other venture officers that you are now a part of.

Yes it is. I want PFS to be a fair and fun place. If my local leadership is making up rules that have no foundation and changing PFS without official clearance it's really one's duty to see the error corrected. VO's don't get any special privileges for breaking rules or modifying PFS. If my regional coordinator was doing something incorrectly should I just tell my local leadership and then be done, almost assuring that nothing happens? Slack my responsibility because I "passed it off to someone else now"? Not to me. If they make a grievously character damaging wrong ruling then I report to the next higher leader. If they also are wrong then I report to the next higher and so on.

Maybe you've misunderstood me. Me hearing that someone (like you or Pete Winz) would rule such a way, of course I'm not going to do anything about it. No errors have actually happened to be chastised and corrected. But if you or he or anyone was at my PFS event and I found out that you had done such a thing, then is when I work to get action done.

*I didn't know I was a part of the VO, I thought I was under them.

The 'Venture' in your 'Venture Agent' title means you are a Venture Officer.

Disagreeing with a fellow VO is fine. However, a difference of opinion on a ruling does not mean someone needs to be chastised for misinterpreting the rule (unless you want someone demanding you be reprimanded every time you make an incorrect ruling), and even if it did, the public forums are NOT the place for that.

If you feel this is something that warrants attention by Tonya for an official ruling, mark the OP...

If has a Venture Lieutennant, you have an issue with a fellow VL, you should be going back to your VC first. If you can't resolve the issue with your VC, then you should go to campaign leadership.

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