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Every GM knows the situation: Suddenly you have another player or two. Or maybe one of the player leaves, leaving your group understaffed. Or one of the players of your four player group has built a truly optimized character and suddenly the other three players feel useless.
How do you best adjust the adventure path or your homebrewn adventure with those and many of the other common problems cropping up? Some GM's are able to do this on the fly (and are not shy about pointing that out on this forum). Others struggle mightily and their campaigns suffer.
Some days ago, James Jacobs posted the following:
Frankly, a "how to adapt adventures" product is a good idea. A product that helps GMs adjust adventures for more players or to account for new character build options is something I've wanted to do for a LONG LONG LONG time. It'd double down with a "How do you build adventures" handbook and perhaps even a book to help GMs run higher level content, with tips and suggestions for how to keep a game running smoothly at those levels. Unfortunately, I've had no luck (obviously) convincing management that such a book would be a wise idea to put on the schedule, and they are probably right, since a book like this would most likely sell a LOT less than another book filled with character options.
I would like to see this product published. I am quite an experienced gamemaster by now after 15 years of doing the job, but I still struggle to adapt pre-existing material to my six-player group. I feel high-level content has its constant problems and I'd love to see what Paizo's take on the issue is. I still think I can learn from others and get better at what I've been doing for years.
I also hope that a book like this will get more people into GM'ing and, hence, more people into Pathfinder. I think it is way more necessary than Paizo management thinks, because I still remember how many of my past campaigns smashed into hard obstacles because I didn't have good advice back then how to adjust for unusual circumstances of the many varieties we encounter in our job as gamemasters. Getting good advice on how to GM in unusual circumstances is a crucial part of getting through some of the harder parts of GM'ing. How many new gamemasters abandon their job because they did not know how to deal with these very common problems? How many new players left the game because their groups disbanded because of inexperienced gamemasters?
So, if you support the idea of this book getting published, voice your support and get managements attention.
If you don't want this book or think it is unnecessary, please refrain from threadcrapping. There are more than enough books for player options getting published each month, so one book of GM advice can't be such a detriment to your enjoyment, even if you think you already know better about everything that is going to be in this book or just personally never GM.
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For PFS there is the GM 101 and 201 downloads. Both have some good ideas about how to handle the situations you describe. Plus they are free downloads! A way to be a better GM is volunteer for your local PFS chapter. There you are constantly encountering different builds, different combinations, thinking on the fly, etc. Also, there are a cornucopia of GMs that will answer any question you have about how the system, feats, spells, anything really works or doesn't work.
As a Venture Captain, this is an area with in which we struggle. We are always looking for people to volunteer to GM. Areas go about this in different ways or methods. But it is something we all must overcome. And part of that is recruitment. If we think you can GM a table, we will do everything in power to make sure you don't fail. Trust me. Would a book like the one you describe help in this regard? Maybe? I don't know. To me it is akin to acting. You can read a book about acting, how to act, improvisation, and so on but it won't do much for you if all you have is a book background the first time you step on a stage. The same is true for rpgs.
The idea of this style of book is very appealing to me. I would buy it, because the theory and craft of gamemastering is something I am interested in. It would almost be a book of philosophical essays on how one author suggests you handle something. Hells, I would totes luvs to sit and pick the brains of various people here on the boards and those who work at Paizo about this very subject.
While I'm a fan of that idea, I think the roadblock is that you want to have something that will appeal to more than just GMs in order to get Paizo's higher-ups to jump on board. Resources for players sell better because ultimately there are far more players than GMs.
I continue to think that an advanced campaigning book which would include material primarily for GMs, but also for players who might transition to GMs or be interested in more nuanced play styles or adaptations within a play style would be an easier sell than a book just for GMs.
Well, nothing to say against that. If we want a hardcover like Ultimate Campaign and the Gamemastery Guide, it will have to be filled with content. :)
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I've been thinking about these topics for some time now, and have considered publishing something this kind for Dire Destiny Books. Another option is a podcast or Youtube Channel. However, there are a lot of DM/GM Advice shows out there already, so finding a way to differentiate a new one would be a major concern.
A Youtube Channel would probably be great for the beginner GM aspect, especially as you could also go back over it and edit it with additional comments and such to make some of it a bit more clear and provide an example as you went along.
The more nuanced campaign changing advise would probably be better in text format, though I can definitely see it being a 3rd party thing for setting-neutral formats. For Golarion, obviously it would need to be done by Paizo.
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I would love to see a product like this, but I can understand Paizo's reluctance to publish something that will undoubtedly not sell as well. What might be nice (and plausible) to see is some of what we have in Ultimate Intrigue, where the stuff for GMs is mixed in among the player options. UI has vigilantes and charisma-based druids and morally grey paladins for the players, and that will sell it. But it also has rules for GMs---clarification of hard-to-adjudicate rules and social duels to make important diplomacy checks more interesting.
So, for example, if there were a book with a lot of high-level-play character options, there might also be a section on how to adjust high level adventures for different power levels. Or if Paizo continues on the genre route after Horror Adventures, some stuff on building adventures could be put into those.
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I would also be open to a book which is 75% GM advice, but 25% player material, so that the book gets made and sells sufficiently. High-level player content seems something I've seen people ask for, so maybe two needs can be adressed at the same time.
An advanced book on high level play could easily cater to both groups. I know players sometimes get lost at high levels due to the number of options at their fingertips or the amount of modifiers they have to juggle. So addressing problems in high level play from the player perspective would probably also be useful.
Modifier juggling seems to be the thing which brings a lot of really experienced players to a screeching halt when playing their turn. If there are good tips to be had on that topic, it should go into a book like this.
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Modifier juggling seems to be the thing which brings a lot of really experienced players to a screeching halt when playing their turn. If there are good tips to be had on that topic, it should go into a book like this.
My #1 trick for modifier juggling is based on a computer science principle called "lazy evaluation". It works like this.
Situation: We are at level 12, and everyone needs to make a DC 30 Fortitude saving throw against an evil screech or be stunned.
Fighter rolls an 18. We know his bonus is enough. He succeeds. Wizard rolls a 3. We know he won't have a +27. He fails. Cleric rolls a 12. With +8 base, +3 Con, and +4 cloak, that's 27, which is close, so now we start hunting other bonuses. Did you remember prayer? What about heroism? OK with both of those you made it.
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Modifier juggling seems to be the thing which brings a lot of really experienced players to a screeching halt when playing their turn. If there are good tips to be had on that topic, it should go into a book like this.My #1 trick for modifier juggling is based on a computer science principle called "lazy evaluation". It works like this.
Situation: We are at level 12, and everyone needs to make a DC 30 Fortitude saving throw against an evil screech or be stunned.
Fighter rolls an 18. We know his bonus is enough. He succeeds. Wizard rolls a 3. We know he won't have a +27. He fails. Cleric rolls a 12. With +8 base, +3 Con, and +4 cloak, that's 27, which is close, so now we start hunting other bonuses. Did you remember prayer? What about heroism? OK with both of those you made it.
This is exactly what my group does as well. It works quite nicely most of the time.
This is exactly what my group does as well. It works quite nicely most of the time.Modifier juggling seems to be the thing which brings a lot of really experienced players to a screeching halt when playing their turn. If there are good tips to be had on that topic, it should go into a book like this.My #1 trick for modifier juggling is based on a computer science principle called "lazy evaluation". It works like this.
Situation: We are at level 12, and everyone needs to make a DC 30 Fortitude saving throw against an evil screech or be stunned.
Fighter rolls an 18. We know his bonus is enough. He succeeds. Wizard rolls a 3. We know he won't have a +27. He fails. Cleric rolls a 12. With +8 base, +3 Con, and +4 cloak, that's 27, which is close, so now we start hunting other bonuses. Did you remember prayer? What about heroism? OK with both of those you made it.
It was somewhat implied, but I think it also really helps to give DC and relevant tags (mind-affecting, fear, death, etc.) of multi-target spells after everyone has rolled and declined any after roll but before results abilities. Also, have players write notes of those class abilities right next to those saves if they are using paper. I'm going to emphasis the tags part because my group loses a good amount of time going back for relevant bonuses. "Oh I get a +4 morale bonus against Fear. I didn't know it was a Fear effect!", those sort of things. In-fact, I don't know the exact rules but the player's should know these tags before their dice hit the table.
My 3.5 DM is very hesitant to let us know the DC and the group usually grinds down to a halt then. I'm almost always fine as a Bardadin with a huge Charisma. Someone will usually shout out their result before checking bonuses, are told they failed, and then they backpeddle for bonuses. It annoys my DM but personally I think its fine. As Mark said, no reason to hunt for bonuses if you don't think you are on the fence. My job as the party buffer is to remind everyone of Heroism, Dragonblood Affinity, Inspire Courage and whatnot. I've actually made index cards for all my little buffs my Bard gives out and I wave them around quite frequently.
Of course I lost him to a Finger of Death from a Fatespinner when I forgot that tricky +1 to all saves vs spells from Nymph's Kiss. It's what I get for having them new-fangled digital sheets.
Definitely keen for a book with this kind of GM advice. I've had a quick look at the advice in Ultimate Intrigue (waiting for my hard copy to arrive before reading it properly) but the advice on handling various skills and spells is exactly what I wanted there. If we could just get a chapter, even, in an upcoming book on scaling adventure materials for more/fewer players, and handling high level play, that would be excellent.
Modifier juggling seems to be the thing which brings a lot of really experienced players to a screeching halt when playing their turn. If there are good tips to be had on that topic, it should go into a book like this.My #1 trick for modifier juggling is based on a computer science principle called "lazy evaluation". It works like this.
Situation: We are at level 12, and everyone needs to make a DC 30 Fortitude saving throw against an evil screech or be stunned.
Fighter rolls an 18. We know his bonus is enough. He succeeds. Wizard rolls a 3. We know he won't have a +27. He fails. Cleric rolls a 12. With +8 base, +3 Con, and +4 cloak, that's 27, which is close, so now we start hunting other bonuses. Did you remember prayer? What about heroism? OK with both of those you made it.
Well, saves are less of a problem than attack roll modifiers. With three characters capable of buffing, the players in my Jade Regent group have to content each round with a mixture of Good Hope, Inspire Courage, Haste, Blessing of Fervor, other possible buffs and whatever else their own character can produce. My other group is much the same. The "lazy evaluation" method works half of the time, but the other half is really annoying, even to me, since if a miss sounds near enough to the players, they often begin to recalculate if they forgot a bonus or another.
Well, saves are less of a problem than attack roll modifiers. With three characters capable of buffing, the players in my Jade Regent group have to content each round with a mixture of Good Hope, Inspire Courage, Haste, Blessing of Fervor, other possible buffs and whatever else their own character can produce. My other group is much the same. The "lazy evaluation" method works half of the time, but the other half is really annoying, even to me, since if a miss sounds near enough to the players, they often begin to recalculate if they forgot a bonus or another.Modifier juggling seems to be the thing which brings a lot of really experienced players to a screeching halt when playing their turn. If there are good tips to be had on that topic, it should go into a book like this.My #1 trick for modifier juggling is based on a computer science principle called "lazy evaluation". It works like this.
Situation: We are at level 12, and everyone needs to make a DC 30 Fortitude saving throw against an evil screech or be stunned.
Fighter rolls an 18. We know his bonus is enough. He succeeds. Wizard rolls a 3. We know he won't have a +27. He fails. Cleric rolls a 12. With +8 base, +3 Con, and +4 cloak, that's 27, which is close, so now we start hunting other bonuses. Did you remember prayer? What about heroism? OK with both of those you made it.
Yeah, I just ran my last session of Jade Regent last weekend and they had all those buffs and more. One thing is I keep myself aware of the general buff numbers as the GM so if a player asks what the buffs are, I can say (actual numbers from that game): "It's at least going to be +10 to hit from inspire/greater heroism/fervor/prayer. And remember that flanking is +9 from tactical acumen/menacing/outflank if that applies. But only +6 of that to damage."
I've found that usually it's less than half the time that it comes into question, since it'll usually be if the attack roll's 1-3 under the AC, which is only at most 5-15% of the time (it can be less than that on attacks with really high accuracy that hit except on a 1).
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Well, I've had a lot of near misses turning into hits over the last half year, so I guess it's more of a topic with me.
Still, it's the kind of advice which should go into a GM help book. :)
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My 3.5 DM is very hesitant to let us know the DC and the group usually grinds down to a halt then.
I also don't easily volunteer DCs. If the player doesn't know their total bonus right off the bat, I always tell them "Roll the die and we'll see if your bonus even matters." Then if their roll is not conclusively enough, I ask for bonuses.
My 3.5 DM is very hesitant to let us know the DC and the group usually grinds down to a halt then.I also don't easily volunteer DCs. If the player doesn't know their total bonus right off the bat, I always tell them "Roll the die and we'll see if your bonus even matters." Then if their roll is not conclusively enough, I ask for bonuses.
That's fair, showing the numbers can give too much of a peek behind the curtain or make it hard to give player's a break if the dice are rough that night. I roll single-target spells that way normally. But if 5 or 6 players are hit with a Fireball, I ask for Reflex saves. I'll then say "Who got a 23 or higher?"
That sort of thing. We'll then usually play bonus bingo and determine the effects.
Well, saves are less of a problem than attack roll modifiers. With three characters capable of buffing, the players in my Jade Regent group have to content each round with a mixture of Good Hope, Inspire Courage, Haste, Blessing of Fervor, other possible buffs and whatever else their own character can produce. My other group is much the same. The "lazy evaluation" method works half of the time, but the other half is really annoying, even to me, since if a miss sounds near enough to the players, they often begin to recalculate if they forgot a bonus or another.
That last bit strikes loud and clear with me. Thankfully after a round or two, people usually narrow down what the AC and their bonus is with bonus bingo ("Does a 27 hit?" "Not quite." "Oh, did you remember your Heroism bonus?" "Nope I forgot that! So 29" "That hits."). That makes subsequent rounds a little quicker. But once people figure out roughly what the AC is, they fight HARD to try to squeeze in a hit and that can stretch things out, too. I do it too playing, so I can't really blame them. It seems a common enough problem; any tips of helping this would be very welcome!
A lot of this seems like it would fit in with an Unchained style book: shortcuts, tips, possibly tweaked rules for making this stuff easier. Where Unchained went to great lengths to detail building monsters in a simpler way, perhaps its sequel (if they consider doing one) could contain the advice for hacking adventures for different party sizes, power levels, etc, and an easier way of tracking the multitude of buffs at high level?
I'd buy it!
I would also love to own a book like this!
The forums are invaluable for finding knowledge and advice, but it isn't easy.
Having a book handy would make it a lot easier
A lot of this seems like it would fit in with an Unchained style book: shortcuts, tips, possibly tweaked rules for making this stuff easier. Where Unchained went to great lengths to detail building monsters in a simpler way, perhaps its sequel (if they consider doing one) could contain the advice for hacking adventures for different party sizes, power levels, etc, and an easier way of tracking the multitude of buffs at high level?
I agree, this could be part of an unchained book. Although the first one was mostly about rules variants, so maybe not, too.
There is a nice section in Ultimate Psionics by Dreamscarred Press about re-skinning psionics as rune magic or other things. I think a section on re-skinning with concrete system examples would be very welcome in A GM's guide style of book.
I’d be very interested in this sort of book! (When I’m looking at a new RPG book, one of the first sections I’ll turn to is the advice for GMs - I’ve found that these sections vary widely and give interesting insights into how the creators think about their games.)
I have some quick suggestions for more topics that could be included in a Pathfinder-specific GM advice book:
- Adapting an adventure for a smaller group of players (James Jacobs has some advice for solo adventures here)
- What to bear in mind when changing the enemies in an encounter
- Keeping the game going at a good pace when running high-level games or sandbox-style adventures
- Creating and maintaining an appropriate atmosphere (such as spookiness in a horror game) when there's lots of combat
- How to prepare to run a large published adventure such as an Adventure Path
- Things to think about when making changes to the plot of a large published adventure
- Assessing possible house rules - which types of changes are likely to have unintended consequences?
- Questions and preferences that are good to discuss with players before the game starts
Occult adventures and ultimate intrigue both had large sections of the book dedicated to these sort of topics and unchained is nearly 100% a GM book, so it seems likely that instead of making a book that tries to cover tonnes of different GM stuff that doesn't sell well, they'll probably just make sure to continue to put GM content as chapters of the hardcovers.
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I would like to see something like this, too, but I can understand the financial concerns Paizo management has in relation to such a product. In the grand scheme of things I believe a single large volume dealing with these DM difficulties probably doesn't work. Cutting it up into smaller volumes divided by topic seems more profitable to me, both in the literal financial sense but also in terms of the depth they could get into on those specific topics if there's no particular need to cut things in order to conserve space devoted to another topic. Many of these topics also allow for new content for players.
Either that, or just adding a couple of 'GM pages' to the Player Companion line discussing integrating the new content. The Monster Summoner's Handbook, for example, was pretty cool, giving players advice, granting many classes an avenue to summon where they previously couldn't, or giving them tools to fight such creatures and those who made them be. In my opinion it would've been even better if it also gave the DM advice on the topic as well, such as how to handle the additional time they take up, how to deal with the increased action economy, if and when summoning creatures would increase or decrease the CR of an encounter, adding a trap or monster that could help combat what players could throw at them, etc.
As it stands now more and more I feel Pathfinder truly is a player's game. That isn't necessarily a bad thing but every toy a player gets is another problem a GM needs to learn how to deal with and we're not always given the solutions. We just get to play with the same toys...
Yes, while the new classes, spells and feats are integrated quite well into the new material, sometimes they interact a bit oddly with the older material.
Sounds like a great book but instead of waiting for Paizo to publish it pitch the idea to third party publishers or write it and publish it yourself.
PS - I'd buy it!
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Ideally the book should build on what we already have such as the GameMastery Guide and Ultimate Campaign, rather than spend page count reinventing the wheel from scratch.
I'd second that. A lot of sections in those two books (and Ultimate Campaign) already were very helpful. Still, a more GM focused book, as James Jacobs envisions, would be very helpful. As to make it comercially viable, it should probably still include topics of interest to players.
Maybe the sections in such a book could describe solutions for problems for both sides, i.e. GMs *and* players?
Resurrecting this relatively recent thread to ask... is the Encounter Codex a good place to go into the suggested topic of scaling encounters/adventures for more or less PCs? Or running high level encounters more easily/effectively?
They just announced it, so it's hard to say at this point.
That said, my impression from the limited information we've been provided is that it's more likely to be specific pre-set encounters (ex. bandit camp, goblin den, hobgoblin fort, troll bridge, etc.) rather than a book of advice for said encounters.
Though it would be sort of cool if they went a bit further and added a few paragraphs or pages about encounter scaling after each encounter or added a chapter or two about encounter design advise and difficulties.
I would appreciate very much an Adventure Guide. Something that helps with preparation time and adapting published adventures, if also covers high level play it would be great.
I'm not sure how the Strategy Guide and GameMastery Guide come to be but they exist, GM Guide even has second print errata and Strategy Guide doesn't add news options that I'm aware.
