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Our group is getting a campaign started in which we'll gain mythic tiers. I've been reading up in preparation, and I'm both excited and intimidated by all the things my character will be able to do.
I'll be a player, not the DM. The DM has never run a mythic campaign before, but he has in the past homebrewed a sort of mythic path for another game. He likes powerful superheroic characters.
I'm looking for some constructive advice/suggestions of how best to play with the mythic adventures rules, as well as general thoughts about what mythic tiers do to a game. I would ask that if you think mythic tiers are the worst thing ever to happen to Pathfinder, please keep that to yourself.
I'll be playing a wizard and taking mythic tiers in archmage. My plan is to focus on being able to overcome spell resistance (we'll be running into a lot of outsiders), as well as knowledge of the planes and extraplanar creatures. I intend to take the True Name arcane discovery so I can have an outsider "buddy." I'll be working with the DM to decide what type of creature it is. Knowing the DM, it will likely be more of a helper than a combat monster (the same DM once gave my character an animated, intelligent spellbook). I'm also planning to take Improved Familiar and have an outsider familiar.
The other players have chosen to play classes from the Advanced Class Guide rather than core classes, so our party will not have a cleric or paladin, though we will have three caster classes, two of them divine. It's a group of five players. How can we use our mythic abilities without slowing down the game or getting lost in the extra details?
In Wrath of the Righteous one of my characters was a Wizard Rivenwarden ArchMage. I had built her so she practically laughed at the notion of spell resistance.
Herolab was of immense help in running the character especially as she advanced in levels and tiers.
Mythic is such a force multiplier that you can feel more free to experiment,even to do such things such as take PrC's that might cost you a couple of caster levels, because you're still so screaming awesome. Wild Arcana in particluar is amazing in the flexibility it grants you from the get go.
The key is preparation. What I would frequently do in Herolab is have frequent summons in the portfolio as additional characters.
If companions are a big thing with you, dual-pathing into Marshal may be something to consider.
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My players have only just now received their first Mythic Tiers. 4 are at Tier 2 while one is a Tier 1. Be prepared for bigger challenges than you've faced before. In order to challenge my group, which was already fairly powerful to begin with, I've upped the CR of their foes. For the first time in the careers of these characters (they're 11th level) most of them have felt real fear of losing their characters in combat. Facing Mythic enemies has given our campaign renewed vigor and excitement (I was getting bored with it and I'm the GM), so the challenge of creating interesting and powerful encounters is something I look forward to.
The game becomes laser tag. Rockets are not fast enough to explain the carnage. There will be quite a few "Booom you're dead!" moments. All those extra resistance powers you get? There for a reason. Battles last two rounds at most.
Second, if it matters, mythic play doesn't deal well with cohorts. Since they are two levels weaker, they are almost entirely shut out of mattering. Even the boosts you can get for them do not change this.
Third, summoning as a swift and standard action can swamp the field of battle instantly. Learn to love it.
Fourth, if you are not specifically focused on dealing damage, you won't keep up.
I hope this helps.
The game becomes laser tag. Rockets are not fast enough to explain the carnage. There will be quite a few "Booom you're dead!" moments. All those extra resistance powers you get? There for a reason. Battles last two rounds at most.
Mileage may vary, we had combats that lasted as long as 10 rounds.
Mileage may vary, we had combats that lasted as long as 10 rounds.The game becomes laser tag. Rockets are not fast enough to explain the carnage. There will be quite a few "Booom you're dead!" moments. All those extra resistance powers you get? There for a reason. Battles last two rounds at most.
In the two Mythic games I've run so far, combat with the BBEG and cohorts lasted 7 rounds in the first game and 8 in the second.
In mythic games the only time I had combats that last more than a round or two was with mythic encounters where there was more than one opponent. Not all had to mythic just one. Single BBEG don't stand a chance in a mythic game unless they too are mythic and even then it's short battle due action economy.
Try to avoid picking abilities that add extra damage. You'll already be pumping out a lot more damage thanks to abilities such as Fleet Charge or Sudden Attack. Any more extra damage can easily get out of hand if you're not careful.
At bare minimum, get the PDF that provides a number of fixes for the system (it's also in the Hero's Handbook, by the way). The basic Mythic Adventures is basically a beta for the system, and mythic games are unquestionably better with this support.
The PDF Rednal is referring to is Mythic Solutions, which is identical to chapter six of the Mythic Hero's Handbook.
And yea, you shouldn't be playing with the mythic rules without at least Mythic Solutions, and preferably all three Mythic Mania books.
I concur with the three mythic books. They are the best thing that ever happened to my mythic game and some of the best pathfinder books I have ever seen period. Worth every penny and I highly recommend them. I would say the Hero's handbook is a must while the others are incredibly helpful and save a lot of work for the GM.
Well, I can't afford them so I'll be flying by my mythic pants with just the one book.
I'd say the order of precedent for which mythic books to get is
1. Mythic Solutions
For the cheapscapes/those on a budget, this small PDF gives you what you really need to make mythic work.
2. Mythic Hero's Handbook
Contains Mythic Solutions and lots more tools that expand the system to where it should have been in the first place.
3. Mythic Monster Manual
Gives you a lot of tools for running a game. You might also want to consider picking up the individual Mythic Monsters supplements, since they contain a lot that wasn't compiled into the hardcover.
4. Mythic Spell Compendium...is the most straightforwards of the lot. Just like the Mythic Spells in Mythic Adventures, it gives you mythic versions of lots and lots of previously-published nonmythic spells.
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As stated above, Mythic Solutions is an absolute must to help understand how to keep a Mythic campaign from going off the rails. If you can afford it, go all the way and get the Mythic Mania set. Legendary has been running a scratch and dent sale and all three are available at half price.
I second Mythic Solutions - it's clear that the authors paid a lot of attention to the pitfalls of the Mythic rules, and put a lot of thought into ways to make them less extreme. Since the OP is going spellcaster, Mythic Spell Compendium is a close second, while the Mythic Heroes Handbook will help everyone at the table (as noted, part of this book contains Mythic Solutions, so if you're getting MHH straight away, don't get MSol).
A word of caution: the mythic rules turn everything up to 11. It's very easy to nova and absolutely nuke anything (some of the mythic solutions help with this). It's can be a good idea to use mythic to broaden your capabilities rather than hyper-specialising, but doing so would need everyone at the table to buy in on the idea. And even then, you'll be able to vastly overwhelm what a non-mythic character can do.
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Thanks for the suggestions about the Legendary Games books, everyone, but we're not allowing 3rd party materials in our group. Frankly, after reading through all the mythic path abilities that are available in the Paizo books, I don't need any more choices!
Thanks also to Drahlia Moonrunner for recommending Wild Arcana. I had been thinking I'd go with Arcane Surge as my Archmage Arcana, but after re-reading that and comparing with Wild Arcana I realized Wild Arcana looks like the better choice.
I've been playing with builds, planning ahead. It's fun to see that with the right combination of feats, ability score advancements, and mythic path abilities, I will eventually be able to get my character's bonuses to overcome spell resistance up into the +20 range. It's making me regret that I haven't seen Spell Penetration as an important feat to have for other spellcasters I've played in other campaigns. <evil grin>
I allow 3PP, I just can't afford them often. So we're having to go with the core Mythic book, as well. One of my players, in a rare fit of spending madness, actually bought the book himself (if you knew how few of my players own anything besides the core book you'd probably be amazed as they rely on me to buy the stuff). But we'll take all the free advice we can get, having just gone Mythic ourselves.
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Now that I've spent some more time reading through all the Archmage path abilities and the Universal path abilities, I'm starting to worry that I'm focusing too much on overcoming spell resistance when perhaps I should diversify a bit.
I was thinking I'd take Spell Penetration, Greater Spell Penetration, Spell Penetration (Mythic), and Piercing Spell. I'm also planning to take the Archmage path ability Eldritch Breach, which would allow me to roll twice to overcome SR and take the higher result. My character is an Elemental wizard of the Wood element, which adds some druid spells to her spell list. I'm also aiming for the Forest's Blessing arcane discovery, which would give her those spells that are on both the druid and wizard lists at +1 CL, +1 DC. Most of the druid spells she gets are not damage spells.
I would welcome suggestions of other options I could pursue. We're only 2nd level now, so I have a bit of time before I have to make up my mind.
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As stated above, Mythic Solutions is an absolute must to help understand how to keep a Mythic campaign from going off the rails. If you can afford it, go all the way and get the Mythic Mania set. Legendary has been running a scratch and dent sale and all three are available at half price.
It's an aid, but not an "absolute" must. After learning a few of the pitfalls in early sessions, our GM managed to adapt quite nicely. But then, he's a 5-star PFS judge. GMing a mythic campaign is best left aside until you've developed your confidence in making your rulings for non-mythic games first.
It also helps if your players aren't the type to look for every corner excuse to break your game. If they are, then perhaps you should avoid mythic entirely.
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Now that I've spent some more time reading through all the Archmage path abilities and the Universal path abilities, I'm starting to worry that I'm focusing too much on overcoming spell resistance when perhaps I should diversify a bit.
I was thinking I'd take Spell Penetration, Greater Spell Penetration, Spell Penetration (Mythic), and Piercing Spell. I'm also planning to take the Archmage path ability Eldritch Breach, which would allow me to roll twice to overcome SR and take the higher result. My character is an Elemental wizard of the Wood element, which adds some druid spells to her spell list. I'm also aiming for the Forest's Blessing arcane discovery, which would give her those spells that are on both the druid and wizard lists at +1 CL, +1 DC. Most of the druid spells she gets are not damage spells.
I would welcome suggestions of other options I could pursue. We're only 2nd level now, so I have a bit of time before I have to make up my mind.
might want to look into the the magaambyan Arcanist prc it allows you to add spells from the druid and cleric lists to yours plus gives you some nice spell mastery stuff.
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As stated above, Mythic Solutions is an absolute must to help understand how to keep a Mythic campaign from going off the rails. If you can afford it, go all the way and get the Mythic Mania set. Legendary has been running a scratch and dent sale and all three are available at half price.
It's an aid, but not an "absolute" must. After learning a few of the pitfalls in early sessions, our GM managed to adapt quite nicely. But then, he's a 5-star PFS judge. GMing a mythic campaign is best left aside until you've developed your confidence in making your rulings for non-mythic games first.
It also helps if your players aren't the type to look for every corner excuse to break your game. If they are, then perhaps you should avoid mythic entirely.
I ran a mythic game to tier 6 a little while ago, and didn't have Mythic Solutions, so yes, I agree that it's entirely possible to run a mythic game without it, but the suggestions it makes allow for the curtailing of some of the most egregious issues with the mythic rules, and knowing where those problems are in advance takes a huge burden off the GM's shoulders. Thus, I consider it to be an invaluable aid to running a mythic game, because unless you're extremely proficient with the rules, and brilliant at identifying problem areas in advance, something is likely to catch you out.
I do absolutely agree that having a group of players who won't try to break the game is a must, though: some sort of "non-cheese gentleman's (or gentlewoman's) agreement" is a good idea.
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i played an elven Arcanist for wrath of the righteous and he focused on magic missile. Don't quite remember the exact damage he could put out with it but it was quite a lot. 100-200 per round if I remember. But he was pretty invested in that spell. his checks to overcome spell resistance was +35.Only 200? Thats sad. My garbage mammoth rider did like 1200 on a charge
After doing the math he could do 290 with 2 magic missiles every round. He could do more depending on what spells he did. He just specialized with it. And remember that magic missile is a 1st level spell.
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I ran a mythic game to tier 6 a little while ago, and didn't have Mythic Solutions, so yes, I agree that it's entirely possible to run a mythic game without it, but the suggestions it makes allow for the curtailing of some of the most egregious issues with the mythic rules, and knowing where those problems are in advance takes a huge burden off the GM's shoulders. Thus, I consider it to be an invaluable aid to running a mythic game, because unless you're extremely proficient with the rules, and brilliant at identifying problem areas in advance, something is likely to catch you out.I do absolutely agree that having a group of players who won't try to break the game is a must, though: some sort of "non-cheese gentleman's (or gentlewoman's) agreement" is a good idea.
I will recommend Mythic Solutions to to my GM.
We are definitely not a "break the game" type of group. We're there to roleplay. The GM loves to insert opportunities for roleplaying into his games. He will modify or skip over what the AP provides if it doesn't suit the roleplaying elements he's aiming for. He's already made some modifications to the PC's abilities and feats, including giving us each a bonus "personality" feat, some of which are homebrew feats.
If anyone's going to break the game, it's more likely to be the GM than the players. <g>
For your Archmage Arcana select Wild Arcana. It is one of the best mythic abilities out there. You become the ultimate in versatility, because you can literally cast any single spell on the Wizard spell list at anytime (limited by your level of course and having Mythic Points available). Run into a situation where you really need Stone to Flesh, but you didn't memorize it for the day? Don't worry, burn 1 MP and BOOM! you just cast the spell you needed.