Hard copies vs pdf?


Pathfinder Society


Pathfinder Maps Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

I am attending my first Paizo pfs event in a few days (Paizocon Paris) and I've got a question for you pfs mavens. (yes, another one!)

Many of my hardcover books I have purchased directly from Paizo. I was under the impression that when you buy the hardcover, that also gives you access to the pdf version... but looking at the "my downloads" page, I don't see any of them.

The conclusion I draw is that I was just plain wrong. Buying the hardcover book does *not* give you the pdf, and if I want a watermarked pdf, then I have to buy each book a second time.

Which is ridiculous.

The second conclusion I draw is that I'll need to go to Paizocon Paris with a suitcase full of 10+ books... unless I trim down my character to be core only.

Can anyone confirm - no free pdf with hardcover purchases?

Grand Lodge 5/5 *

The free PDF is part of the Subscription option - just ordering the book does not give the pdf for free. Each product line has its own subscription to help you customize which you want to receive.

On the plus side, all of the hardcover rulebook pdfs are a significantly lower price than their physical version (Core Rulebook, the Ultimate books, the Advanced books and such), if you decide that picking up specific books (as opposed to your whole library) will be a benefit to you.


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Pathfinder Maps Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Thanks, Sean, that's pretty much what I'd gathered. I was laboring under a misconception that I'd get free pdf access simply by buying a given book from Paizo. I see now that I was wrong. And since I've already bought very nearly everything they have, it's mostly too late to go back.

So it looks like it's suitcase-of-books time. <sigh>

Silver Crusade 4/5

There's been some debate about the PFS legality of photocopying pages from books that you own. I believe Mike Brock said it was ok, but that was probably 2-3 years ago. I'm not sure if that ruling has been changed since then.

5/5

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Fromper wrote:
There's been some debate about the PFS legality of photocopying pages from books that you own. I believe Mike Brock said it was ok, but that was probably 2-3 years ago. I'm not sure if that ruling has been changed since then.

Hard copy of book, watermarked PDF (available to be read), or print out of pages of resource used from watermarked PDF are the 3 viable options for use of additional resources.

Photocopying of hard copies are not permitted.

Liberty's Edge 3/5 5/5 **** Venture-Captain, Nebraska—Omaha

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Fromper wrote:
There's been some debate about the PFS legality of photocopying pages from books that you own. I believe Mike Brock said it was ok, but that was probably 2-3 years ago. I'm not sure if that ruling has been changed since then.

It has been changed because it was being abused.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I don't know your situation as far as finances, etc. go, but the rules line's PDFs are priced very reasonably. It might not be a feasible option, but $10 per book is worth thinking about. That might get a pretty good distance.

1/5 5/5

Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Could we 'rent' books for traveling abroad? I'm seeing a trip coming up in May and the idea of carrying 30# of books is really going to add to my plane ticket.

I mean, the alternative would be 'buy the book for the convention, then return it "I don't need it anymore".' That's just bad for the Society and Paizo.

EDIT: Some of us don't have mobile devices.

Liberty's Edge 3/5 5/5 **** Venture-Captain, Nebraska—Omaha

They only option is what Sniggevert has laid out.

Sorry. I tried to get something change but came to understand the history behind the rule and now realize that the current rule, while not perfect, is likely the best we will have.

Maybe you can get the PDF for the main books. Would that be workable?

Silver Crusade 4/5

If you don't have a mobile device, do you have access to a printer? If you buy the pdf files, you can print out the relevant pages. Because they're watermarked with your name and email address, they serve as proof that you own the book.

I do this all the time, even though I also bring the pdf files on a tablet. If it's something that's key to a particular PC, it's easier to just keep everything related to that PC in the folder with the character sheet and chronicles, so I can find it quickly as needed.

1/5 5/5

Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Fromper:

In my situation have 14+ hardcovers and five soft-covers that I bought with my hard-earned money from my job from Local Game Stores or at Conventions, some of them from directly from Paizo @Gen Con, of which for my characters I need 12 of the hardcover and three of the soft-cover, at least.

I have 6 *different* .pdf I can print out relevant information from.

Someone mentioned at some point that mobile devices were *cheap*. They might be to someone who has a data plan.

I'm probably a 'corner case' though.

Liberty's Edge 3/5 5/5 **** Venture-Captain, Nebraska—Omaha

Keep in mind that the PDFs can be downloaded to the a mobile device likely when connected to a wi-fi so the data plan would not be needed.

You are not a corner case at all. There has been a lot of discussion on this very topic in the past.

Dark Archive 3/5

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A person can use a cable to connect a mobile device to a computer negating a wireless transfer of files.

Dark Archive 1/5

Wheldrake wrote:

I am attending my first Paizo pfs event in a few days (Paizocon Paris) and I've got a question for you pfs mavens. (yes, another one!)

Many of my hardcover books I have purchased directly from Paizo. I was under the impression that when you buy the hardcover, that also gives you access to the pdf version... but looking at the "my downloads" page, I don't see any of them.

The conclusion I draw is that I was just plain wrong. Buying the hardcover book does *not* give you the pdf, and if I want a watermarked pdf, then I have to buy each book a second time.

Which is ridiculous.

The second conclusion I draw is that I'll need to go to Paizocon Paris with a suitcase full of 10+ books... unless I trim down my character to be core only.

Can anyone confirm - no free pdf with hardcover purchases?

If it is your first PFS event then you shouldn't need that many books for a level 1 character, so plan them out and take just what you need. If you know any of the Venture Officers at the event that know you own the books and would vouch for you, you could take a picture of them on your bed or something to prove you have them and then just take pics of the relevant pages.

I've never seen a GM book check someone at a Con (it's usually pretty hectic), but they might be more strict with that where you play. Your best bet would still be to talk to a VO for the area if you know any and ask if there is anything you can do to reduce your luggage weight for the Con.

Silver Crusade 3/5

This is one of the reasons that I have avoided PaizoCon for the past several years, despite living 4 hours away. I have an extensive physical library of Paizo's books, but very few on PDF. Most of them I bought from paizo.com.

If I decide to attend this year, what follows is what I plan to do. I realize that GMs would be within their right to turn me away with this plan, and I accept that. But I hope it wouldn't come to that.

First, it should be noted that the reason behind the requirement of having the sourcebook at the table is twofold: to prove that I purchased the book, and to provide the GM with the rules from the original source (as opposed to 3rd-party sources, like d20pfsrd).

Toward that end, I plan to first create a document listing all of the books that I use for each character, with links to the product page on paizo.com. The product page lists exactly when I bought the product, which proves ownership.

Second, I have a library of high-quality photographs of the rules elements for each of my characters. This should suffice for the second requirement.

As a back-up, I will have characters with me that are built with a minimum number of rules sources that I will have with me. I'll fall back to those characters if I come to a table with a GM who is a hardjack about it.

Maybe it will even work. :)

1/5

I have actually started using a small suitcase for my books.

Shadow Lodge 3/5

Post in Customer Service. They might (or might not) have a solution for you.


Pathfinder Maps Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Thanks for all the responses. Really, it just looks easier to bring a carry-on with most of my books. And a selection of miniatures - especially since it looks like I'll be playing pregenerated characters for several sessions that are above my current level (3rd, as I got credit for two segments of our current Jade Regent campaign).

I mean, it'll take me longer to track down precisely which books I used in character creation, than just to put my book box in a suitcase and in the trunk.

Now if I wanted to bring my Dwarven Forge corridors.... THAT would take some major logistics. <g>

http://gdurl.com/wBHB


I stopped carrying the stack 'o books to conventions when I got charged for overweight luggage by an airline a few years back. Bought a wi-fi tablet for under $150 bucks and never looked back.

I still print out the specific pages from the relevant PDFs to include with each character (hey, the tablet runs out of juice sometimes), but those plus the tablet to look up other stuff fit in my coat pocket versus having an entire rolling carry-on for just books.

-j

Grand Lodge 4/5

The Fox wrote:

This is one of the reasons that I have avoided PaizoCon for the past several years, despite living 4 hours away. I have an extensive physical library of Paizo's books, but very few on PDF. Most of them I bought from paizo.com.

If I decide to attend this year, what follows is what I plan to do. I realize that GMs would be within their right to turn me away with this plan, and I accept that. But I hope it wouldn't come to that.

First, it should be noted that the reason behind the requirement of having the sourcebook at the table is twofold: to prove that I purchased the book, and to provide the GM with the rules from the original source (as opposed to 3rd-party sources, like d20pfsrd).

Toward that end, I plan to first create a document listing all of the books that I use for each character, with links to the product page on paizo.com. The product page lists exactly when I bought the product, which proves ownership.

Second, I have a library of high-quality photographs of the rules elements for each of my characters. This should suffice for the second requirement.

As a back-up, I will have characters with me that are built with a minimum number of rules sources that I will have with me. I'll fall back to those characters if I come to a table with a GM who is a hardjack about it.

Maybe it will even work. :)

Only thing I would include is a copy of the title pages, as well, and a copy of any errata between your printing of the book and the current printing. If stuff you use is "common", like spring loaded wrist sheathes, etc., the odds are no GM will need to look at the rules. If you use some rarer options, then they may get looked at, depending on synergies.

The errata is because sometimes rules change, and knowing the current one may be more beneficial. I was running a module, and we used one of the player's Core books for looking up the Sunder rules, and he had an older printing, without the errata available, so he was working under a plain vanilla weapon with the highest enhancement to hit, rather than the updated rules, where higher enhancements just add to hardness and hit points.

Silver Crusade 3/5

Good point, kinevon! Thanks.

4/5

Wheldrake wrote:

I am attending my first Paizo pfs event in a few days (Paizocon Paris) and I've got a question for you pfs mavens. (yes, another one!)

Many of my hardcover books I have purchased directly from Paizo. I was under the impression that when you buy the hardcover, that also gives you access to the pdf version... but looking at the "my downloads" page, I don't see any of them.

The conclusion I draw is that I was just plain wrong. Buying the hardcover book does *not* give you the pdf, and if I want a watermarked pdf, then I have to buy each book a second time.

Which is ridiculous.

The second conclusion I draw is that I'll need to go to Paizocon Paris with a suitcase full of 10+ books... unless I trim down my character to be core only.

Can anyone confirm - no free pdf with hardcover purchases?

If it isn't too late and you haven't already left, I'm DMing Core games all weekend at PaizoCon FR, so you can borrow my APG. That's all I have in terms of hard copy Players' books.

Shadow Lodge 5/5

I prefer Hardcopy for a # of reasons
top of the list is that if an archtype gets banned I could trade the book for a different book

3/5

Wheldrake wrote:

Thanks, Sean, that's pretty much what I'd gathered. I was laboring under a misconception that I'd get free pdf access simply by buying a given book from Paizo. I see now that I was wrong. And since I've already bought very nearly everything they have, it's mostly too late to go back.

So it looks like it's suitcase-of-books time. <sigh>

Yep, this is why I don't play PFS at conventions (though I sometimes GM) despite the fact that all of my subscriptions are only for PFS. It's just not worth the hassle to me right now.

There is some strange belief that it's much more difficult to dummy up a watermarked .pdf (or even a hardcopy print out of one) from a pirated .pdf than to dummy up a photocopy of a book.

It's been discussed a great deal, but it's basically been relegated to "because REASONS" because of Paizo's policy that we can't actually discuss piracy in any detail to try to discuss the subject intelligently. While I can understand the reasons for the policy, it is still incredibly frustrating for those of us who don't want to buy our books twice in order to play PFS at conventions.

All of that said, we now have Tonya rather than Mike, so it may be something she's more amenable to looking at (assuming it wasn't a directive handed down to Mike from Vic/Lisa/Erik).

-TimD

Silver Crusade 4/5

Tim, don't let it stop you from going to conventions.

Bring photocopies of the pages from books you own. You bought them. Paizo got your money for that book. You've got nothing to feel guilty about.

At 99% of tables, nobody will ever notice. If you're ever in a situation where someone does notice, just play dumb and pretend you didn't know it was against the rules. That'll work for your first time, anyway. Given how many people I see getting away with just looking things up on the SRD on their phones when rules questions come up, because they don't own the book, or didn't bring it with them, this is a very minor offense.

In my case, I carry the Core Rulebook and some splat books to every game day and convention. But I have PDFs for most of the newer stuff, and just print the pages that apply to my characters, and usually bring my tablet with those PDFs, too.

The two exceptions are the Inner Sea World Guide and Inner Sea Gods. Those are more "fluff" type books that I would want to sit and read, and I prefer hard copies for that. Besides I bought them from local game stores, partially to support the store, rather than ordering them online. So on the rare occasion I need some "crunch" from one of those for a PC, I photocopy that page from the book. I think I've got two feats and a trait that I've done this with, for 3 different PCs. I've never needed to show any of those to anyone, so the question of these being photocopies instead of printouts from a PDF has never even come up.

3/5

Fromper wrote:

Tim, don't let it stop you from going to conventions.

Oh I don't, I just don't play PFS while I'm there.

-TimD


Pathfinder Maps Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

FWIW, Paizocon Paris was cancelled, what with the multiple terrorist attacks yesterday. Game playing is the least of our worries. I'd say more, but that would be off-topic chatter.

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