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So, I haven't found a really satisfying answer to this, so here goes:
An eidolon becomes adept at grappling foes, gaining the grab ability. Pick bite, claw, pincers, slam, tail slap, or tentacle attacks. Whenever the eidolon makes a successful attack of the selected type, it can attempt a free combat maneuver check. If successful, the eidolon grapples the target. This ability only works on creatures of a size one category smaller than the eidolon or smaller. Eidolons with this evolution receive a +4 bonus on CMB checks made to grapple.
An eidolon grows dangerous claws on its feet, allowing it to make 2 rake attacks on foes it is grappling. These attacks are primary attacks. The eidolon receives these additional attacks each time it succeeds on a grapple check against the target. These rake attacks deal 1d4 points of damage (1d6 if Large, 1d8 if Huge). This evolution is only available to eidolons of the quadruped base form. This evolution counts as one natural attack toward te eidolon's maximum. The summoner must be at least 4th level before selecting this evolution.
Does the grab evo count as a "Grapple Check" and trigger the rake. If so, how many times a round can it rake, assuming all 4 claws hit, and all 4 grabs succeed, and it releases the grapple in between each claw hit
Note some critical differences. The UMR grab says that monsters may "start a grapple as a free action," the Eidolon rules say the eidolon may "make a CMB check, and if the check succeeds, the creature is grappled." I am not sure if this is supposed to count as a grapple check for purposes of rake, or if rake is refering to the check to maintain the grapple, which would match the UMR rake more closely. But if that were the case, this would cascade into other rules issues. (such as eidolons not getting +5 to maintain grapples, etc)
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This evolution counts as one natural attack toward the eidolon's maximum.
Surprisingly less relevant that I would like it to be.
This indicates the maximum number of attacks that the eidolon is allowed to possess at the given level. If the eidolon is at its maximum, it cannot take evolutions that grant additional attacks. Attacks made with weapons, including those granted by a high base attack bonus, are counted against this maximum.
All it does is prevent you from buying more attack evolutions, not using the same attack evolution multiple times per round.
Now, if we can get a ruling saying you can only use rake once a round, that would answer my question. Or a response saying that the Maximum Attacks applies to the number of attacks it can use in a round as well as the number it can possess. (Though that would still let you rake twice.)
(Also, please FAQ, so we can get a clarification, as there are people out there saying you can do it 4 times a round.)
Under the rules as written, you would gain a set of rake attacks for each claw that successfully grabs. A level 20 Summoner still wouldn't be able to pull off this feat as you would need at least 8 Max Attacks and 12 limbs (Claws (x2) and Rake (x4)). This means a Quadruped would need Limbs (x4) + Rake (x4) + Claws (x2) for a total of 18 Evolution Points, even if it could get 8 maximum natural attacks.
It seems like you want to be able to Rake with the same set of Rake attacks though and this isn't possible. You cannot iterative off of natural attacks unless you have one or two natural attacks under the Multiattack ability. Even if you qualify for the attacks several times throughout the round, you can only use them once a turn like any other natural attack. Thus, if you only have two Rake attacks, you can only ever make two Rake attacks per round. Under your build, you would get six natural attacks and it wouldn't be possible until level 9 due to Max Natural Attacks (each Claw counts as 1 and Rake, as a pair, counts as 1).
EDIT:
Now, if we can get a ruling saying you can only use rake once a round, that would answer my question.
(Also, please FAQ, so we can get a clarification, as there are people out there saying you can do it 4 times a round.)
Rake is a natural attack, why would you be able to Rake more than once per set of Rakes a round?
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It seems like you want to be able to Rake with the same set of Rake attacks though and this isn't possible.
No, I want to put an end to the people saying it is possible.
The eidolon grows dangerous claws on its
feet, allowing it to make two rake attacks against foes it is
grappling. These attacks are primary attacks. The eidolon
can make these additional attacks each time it succeeds
at a grapple check against the target.
Each time. Not "once per round when"
I don't think that is what is intended, but I recognize that it is a legitimate interpretation.
Also, you can only take rake once. There is no language allowing you to take it more than once. It is also missing the language saying that this takes up one pair of limbs. So technically you could have your raking claws on the same limbs as your claw claws. Again, I don't think this is what was intended.
1) Are Rake attacks natural attacks?
Answer: Yes. They are classified in the text as primary attacks which is only relevant if they are natural attacks.
2) Can natural attacks be used more than once per round?
Answer: No. (Outside of Multiattack, which this does not satisfy.)
3) Does the text say that you can use it more that once per round per set of Rake claws?
Answer: No. It says "The eidolon can make these additional attacks each time it succeeds at a grapple check against the target." You can make these attacks whenever you succeed at a grapple check. This does not bypass the fact that you can only use them once per round. It merely states when you can use them.
4) As far as I have seen, these same people who would create such a monstrosity would balk at similar catch-and-release Constrict/Rake tactics being used on them, so their opinion on the matter doesn't really hold much weight.
Instead of arguing lots of pages, I think a quick spam of the FAQ button should give us a fast answer to this one. It's disruptive enough to break games, it's wording is confusing enough to warrant a clarification, and I *think* the RAI is clear enough to give us an answer.
My vote is no, you can't (and to be honest, Rake sould work as the universal monster rule, but that's another issue). But for PFS and the like, it'll be nice if it's clarified
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Do people think that an Eidolon can ever achieve 12 attacks per round?
On the Eidolon Table, under "Max. Attacks", I've always assumed that was the limit to the number of times that an Eidolon could make an attack roll (not including extra attacks like from Haste or Attacks of Opportunity).
Or do people believe that to simply be the maximum number of body parts capable of making attacks?
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Some people really believe that. I refer you back to the thread on Grapple / Release one post above yours.
1) Are Rake attacks natural attacks?
Answer: Yes. They are classified in the text as primary attacks which is only relevant if they are natural attacks.
2) Can natural attacks be used more than once per round?
Answer: No. (Outside of Multiattack, which this does not satisfy.)
3) Does the text say that you can use it more that once per round per set of Rake claws?
Answer: No. It says "The eidolon can make these additional attacks each time it succeeds at a grapple check against the target." You can make these attacks whenever you succeed at a grapple check. This does not bypass the fact that you can only use them once per round. It merely states when you can use them.
4) As far as I have seen, these same people who would create such a monstrosity would balk at similar catch-and-release Constrict/Rake tactics being used on them, so their opinion on the matter doesn't really hold much weight.
1)Sort of. Eidolon rakes are a special attack and thus use the specific rules for the special attack rather than the usual rules for natural attacks.
2) Yes, when the rules say they can. An example of when an natural attack may be used more than once per round is Haste. Another is an AC with only one attack that gains Multi-Attack via the master's class ability.
3) It says on any successful grapple check and does not contain any limiting language or action type (like swift).
4) Not a rules issue.
Max. Attacks: This indicates the maximum number of attacks that the eidolon is allowed to possess at the given level. If the eidolon is at its maximum, it cannot take evolutions that grant additional attacks. Attacks made with weapons, including those granted by a high base attack bonus, are counted against this maximum.
So the max attacks is just how many natural attack evos it can have. Thus if you gain a way to trigger rake multiple times then that 1 natural attack evo is used multiple times. Think kinda like the hurtful feat and getting an extra attack with it.
The grab is a grapple check so activates Rake.
How many attacks you get is determine by what attack you have tied grab to and how many of that natural attack you have.
Note that the claws gained by Rake do not independently attack since they are gained by and only used for the Rake evolution.
Assuming the regular claw evolution and a bite with grab on the claws and Rake you could get a potential 7 attacks BUT since the Rake is counted against the natural attack cap on the eidolon it may be lower, depending on the level of the Summoner/Eidolon.
Assuming 2 claws evolution (for 4 claw natural attacks) and grab on the claws and Rake, then you have a potential 12 attacks, but again your still capped by the number of natural attacks your Eidolon can have based on it's level.
Since at level 20 the cap is 7, your never going to get as many as the potential of the combination allows.
The grab is a grapple check so activates Rake.
How many attacks you get is determine by what attack you have tied grab to and how many of that natural attack you have.
Note that the claws gained by Rake do not independently attack since they are gained by and only used for the Rake evolution.
Assuming the regular claw evolution and a bite with grab on the claws and Rake you could get a potential 7 attacks BUT since the Rake is counted against the natural attack cap on the eidolon it may be lower, depending on the level of the Summoner/Eidolon.
Assuming 2 claws evolution (for 4 claw natural attacks) and grab on the claws and Rake, then you have a potential 12 attacks, but again your still capped by the number of natural attacks your Eidolon can have based on it's level.
Since at level 20 the cap is 7, your never going to get as many as the potential of the combination allows.
6 claws with grab and rake = 7 natural attacks. = 18 possible natural attacks in a round and that doesn't factor in any weapon attacks you make.
The grab is a grapple check so activates Rake.
How many attacks you get is determine by what attack you have tied grab to and how many of that natural attack you have.
Note that the claws gained by Rake do not independently attack since they are gained by and only used for the Rake evolution.
Assuming the regular claw evolution and a bite with grab on the claws and Rake you could get a potential 7 attacks BUT since the Rake is counted against the natural attack cap on the eidolon it may be lower, depending on the level of the Summoner/Eidolon.
Assuming 2 claws evolution (for 4 claw natural attacks) and grab on the claws and Rake, then you have a potential 12 attacks, but again your still capped by the number of natural attacks your Eidolon can have based on it's level.
Since at level 20 the cap is 7, your never going to get as many as the potential of the combination allows.
The limit is on attack forms, not actual attack rolls. Unless you contend that an eidolon with max number of attacks cannot benefit from Haste.
Duly noted. I was unaware that this debate existed.Since at level 20 the cap is 7, your never going to get as many as the potential of the combination allows.6 claws with grab and rake = 7 natural attacks. = 18 possible natural attacks in a round
I believe people just see "Max Attacks" in the table and assume it's the max attacks in a round. but reading the ability that I quoted it's clear that the max attacks is only in regards to Evo points spent. That you can make X number of weapon attacks limited only by arms without caring about this "max attack" limit. And if Rake does indeed trigger off of each successful grab attempt then it could trigger on every normal claw attack.
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I believe people just see "Max Attacks" in the table and assume it's the max attacks in a round. but reading the ability that I quoted it's clear that the max attacks is only in regards to Evo points spent. That you can make X number of weapon attacks limited only by arms without caring about this "max attack" limit.Duly noted. I was unaware that this debate existed.Since at level 20 the cap is 7, your never going to get as many as the potential of the combination allows.6 claws with grab and rake = 7 natural attacks. = 18 possible natural attacks in a round
Okay.
So what happens to an Eidolon with Bite/Claw/Claw/Weapon when its master levels from 6 to 7?
Because then the Eidolon has 5 attacks, while the Chart limits it to 4.
Does it lose the evolution to Bite?
Generally, no. Most people just add to their eidolon. But they can do a complete evolution rebuild every level.
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Huh. And this is common practice?It's not common practice because the APG Eidolon only had a restriction on natural attacks. Manufactured Weapons counting against that limit is new in Unchained.
So, with APG, you could have Weapon(x2)/Natural(x4), even though the chart said "Max Attacks: 4", but now, with Unchained, if you have Weapon(x1)/Natural(x3), and you gain an iterative, it's required that you lose one of your Natural Attack evolutions?
So, with APG, you could have Weapon(x2)/Natural(x4), even though the chart said "Max Attacks: 4", but now, with Unchained, if you have Weapon(x1)/Natural(x3), and you gain an iterative, it's required that you lose one of your Natural Attack evolutions?Huh. And this is common practice?It's not common practice because the APG Eidolon only had a restriction on natural attacks. Manufactured Weapons counting against that limit is new in Unchained.
That is correct
1)Sort of. Eidolon rakes are a special attack and thus use the specific rules for the special attack rather than the usual rules for natural attacks.
An eidolon's Rake is not a special attack. It is a "primary attack", which means it is a normal natural attack. Conversely, Rake (UMR) and Constrict are specifically listed as "special attacks" with no reference to them being natural attacks, while an eidolon's Rake has no "special attack" statement.
2) Yes, when the rules say they can. An example of when an natural attack may be used more than once per round is Haste. Another is an AC with only one attack that gains Multi-Attack via the master's class ability.
1) Multiattack is gained by eidolons as well.
2) Both Haste and Multiattack are extremely explicit in giving out an additional attack above and beyond what you are normally capable of, whereas the 12+ attack rotation is based off of a very flimsy interpretation of the words.
3) It says on any successful grapple check and does not contain any limiting language or action type (like swift).
It also doesn't provide you with any language to suggest that you can use the natural attack anymore than once during a full attack action, which is the only time you would be able to Rake. If you Grab as a Standard or AoO, then you still can't Rake because you don't get a full attack action. This is specifically for Eidolon Rake as it is a natural attack and to perform more than one natural attack, you need to use a full attack action.
All the phrase says is that a successful grapple now allows for the option to use these attacks. It does not say that you get to bypass the normal rules for natural attacks.
4) Not a rules issue.
Never said it was.
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So, with APG, you could have Weapon(x2)/Natural(x4), even though the chart said "Max Attacks: 4", but now, with Unchained, if you have Weapon(x1)/Natural(x3), and you gain an iterative, it's required that you lose one of your Natural Attack evolutions?Huh. And this is common practice?It's not common practice because the APG Eidolon only had a restriction on natural attacks. Manufactured Weapons counting against that limit is new in Unchained.
Under strict rules as written.
On the other hand, I could make an argument that if you did *not* lose a natural attack you would not gain the iterative.
Natural + manufactured attacks could probably use it's own FAQ.
For example, I have an Azata with 4 arms at level 7. How many manufatured weapons attacks does it have? How many claws can I give it?
Possible answers to how many manufactured attacks:
0, I haven't given it any weapons.
2, I gave it a dagger
4, I gave it a sword and 2 daggers
5, I gave it 4 swords. Nothing says I can't equip it past the max attacks, I just can't spend evo points to get past the limit.
But I will let someone else start that FAQ thread.
1)Sort of. Eidolon rakes are a special attack and thus use the specific rules for the special attack rather than the usual rules for natural attacks.An eidolon's Rake is not a special attack. It is a "primary attack", which means it is a normal natural attack. Conversely, Rake (UMR) and Constrict are specifically listed as "special attacks" with no reference to them being natural attacks, while an eidolon's Rake has no "special attack" statement.
2) Yes, when the rules say they can. An example of when an natural attack may be used more than once per round is Haste. Another is an AC with only one attack that gains Multi-Attack via the master's class ability.1) Multiattack is gained by eidolons as well.
2) Both Haste and Multiattack are extremely explicit in giving out an additional attack above and beyond what you are normally capable of, whereas the 12+ attack rotation is based off of a very flimsy interpretation of the words.
3) It says on any successful grapple check and does not contain any limiting language or action type (like swift).It also doesn't provide you with any language to suggest that you can use the natural attack anymore than once during a full attack action, which is the only time you would be able to Rake. If you Grab as a Standard or AoO, then you still can't Rake because you don't get a full attack action. This is specifically for Eidolon Rake as it is a natural attack and to perform more than one natural attack, you need to use a full attack action.
All the phrase says is that a successful grapple now allows for the option to use these attacks. It does not say that you get to bypass the normal rules for natural attacks.
4) Not a rules issue.Never said it was.
Eidolon rake functions just like constrict except that it has 2 to hit rolls instad of automatic damage. You do not get Eidolon rke attacks in a full attack unless the triggering event (grapple check) occurs. So the normal rules for natural attacks so not all apply.
1) Are Rake attacks natural attacks?
Answer: Yes. They are classified in the text as primary attacks which is only relevant if they are natural attacks.
2) Can natural attacks be used more than once per round?
Answer: No. (Outside of Multiattack, which this does not satisfy.)
3) Does the text say that you can use it more that once per round per set of Rake claws?
Answer: No. It says "The eidolon can make these additional attacks each time it succeeds at a grapple check against the target." You can make these attacks whenever you succeed at a grapple check. This does not bypass the fact that you can only use them once per round. It merely states when you can use them.
4) As far as I have seen, these same people who would create such a monstrosity would balk at similar catch-and-release Constrict/Rake tactics being used on them, so their opinion on the matter doesn't really hold much weight.
Rake already doesn't follow the normal rules for Natural Weapons, since you must meet a special requirement to use them at all (ie. be grappling an opponent), unlike the normal Natural weapon rules that allow them to be used whenever.
The rules for an Eidolon's rake say "The eidolon receives these additional attacks each time it succeeds on a grapple check against the target."
So if you can make Grapple checks multiple times per round (for high BAB, or multiple Natural weapons with Grab) you can Rake multiple times per round.
Specific trumps general. Natural attacks can normally be used once per round, and can be used whenever. Eidolon Rake can only be used with a successful grapple check, and can be used multiple times per round.
The "Primary Attack" description is relevant because it tells you they hit at full BAB.
And yeah, Max Attacks is the number of attacks it can "possess" not the number it can make.
The limit is on attack forms, not actual attack rolls. Unless you contend that an eidolon with max number of attacks cannot benefit from Haste.
Seeing as how haste is separate spell that specifically adds one attack to anyone problem with haste. Not even sure why you would bring it up since it is an outside factor completely.
Our group DOES see that natural attack limit as a limit on natural attacks that an eidolon can make in a round and we also believe this is the intent of the column as meant by the designers.
Could you build a really broken eidolon with a potential ton of natural attacks? Yes if there was not that natural attack limit column on the eidolon chart indicating the intended design limit.
I find it funny that so many people scream how broken the summoner and eidolon are but when someone defends a conservative view of the eidolon that keeps it's power in reasonable check folks get all bent out of shape.
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Our group DOES see that natural attack limit as a limit on natural attacks that an eidolon can make in a round and we also believe this is the intent of the column as meant by the designers.
That was my initial belief. If I had to pick sides, I'd probably go with your group's interpretation. If the column was instead labeled "Max # of Attack forms", or something akin to referencing Evolutions, then I'd swing the other way.
But I'll let someone else make that argument. I haven't played an APG Summoner, and don't plan on playing an Unchained Summoner, so at this point I'm more willing to just listen to other ppl debate it.
Maybe the editor for the APG Summoner got mauled by an Eidolon with 12 rake attacks?
The limit is on attack forms, not actual attack rolls. Unless you contend that an eidolon with max number of attacks cannot benefit from Haste.The grab is a grapple check so activates Rake.
How many attacks you get is determine by what attack you have tied grab to and how many of that natural attack you have.
Note that the claws gained by Rake do not independently attack since they are gained by and only used for the Rake evolution.
Assuming the regular claw evolution and a bite with grab on the claws and Rake you could get a potential 7 attacks BUT since the Rake is counted against the natural attack cap on the eidolon it may be lower, depending on the level of the Summoner/Eidolon.
Assuming 2 claws evolution (for 4 claw natural attacks) and grab on the claws and Rake, then you have a potential 12 attacks, but again your still capped by the number of natural attacks your Eidolon can have based on it's level.
Since at level 20 the cap is 7, your never going to get as many as the potential of the combination allows.
I would almost be willing to argue that because iterative attacks count against your maximum attacks.
Not 100% I would be willing to yet, but my general gut feel would lean in that direction, as much as I don't want it to.
I mean when iterative attacks are counted against the number you can't argue those are attack forms -- it is literally counting the number of attacks you make in a round.
EDIT: This is based on the idea that iterative attacks are counted as chesspwn quoted. I can't find where he grabbed that text though since everything I see says they aren't counted.
In which case:
The idea that we are just counting "forms" of natural attacks is very squirrely to me. I mean why can't I just take 10 claw attacks and 10 bites since those are all "one form" just like rake is "one form?"
Got to say I do not like that idea.
The idea that we are just counting "forms" of natural attacks is very squirrely to me. I mean why can't I just take 10 claw attacks and 10 bites since those are all "one form" just like rake is "one form?"
Got to say I do not like that idea.
I don't think anyone is saying that.
If you have 10 claws, you possess 10 natural attacks.
Rake is 2 natural attacks. But you can make more than 2 attacks with them in a round.
The limit is on the number of "weapons," not the number of actions.
Kind of what I thought, I just didn't find it on archives of Nethys so thought I would specify as a CYA.
The idea that we are just counting "forms" of natural attacks is very squirrely to me. I mean why can't I just take 10 claw attacks and 10 bites since those are all "one form" just like rake is "one form?"
Got to say I do not like that idea.
I don't think anyone is saying that.
If you have 10 claws, you possess 10 natural attacks.
Rake is 2 natural attacks. But you can make more than 2 attacks with them in a round.
The limit is on the number of "weapons," not the number of actions.
Okay now I follow.
Take your rake, take your grab put grab to "claw" take all claws, attack something smaller than you so you get the free grapples and for each successful grapple get a free rake attack.
It's basically "succeed on these two previous rolls? Get free damage."
except you are doing it once per claw.
Meh, there are a lot of qualifiers there and hoops to jump through still (smaller size (which does get easier), successful attack, successful grapple, plus the points spent) that what bugs me the most about the idea is the amount of time this thing is going to eat each combat.
With the unchained eidolon I don't like it because that is definitely counting total attacks by number (pointing out the again mentioned iterative attacks counting point).
On the "plain" eidolon, my main argument against it is "sir-rolls-a-lot" problem more than the rule side of it.
Our group DOES see that natural attack limit as a limit on natural attacks that an eidolon can make in a round and we also believe this is the intent of the column as meant by the designers.That was my initial belief. If I had to pick sides, I'd probably go with your group's interpretation. If the column was instead labeled "Max # of Attack forms", or something akin to referencing Evolutions, then I'd swing the other way.
But I'll let someone else make that argument. I haven't played an APG Summoner, and don't plan on playing an Unchained Summoner, so at this point I'm more willing to just listen to other ppl debate it.
Maybe the editor for the APG Summoner got mauled by an Eidolon with 12 rake attacks?
When you select the Rake evolution you get 2 rake attacks, but these only count as 1 attack for purposes of attack limits. Are you claiming that an eidolon cannot benefit fully from its own power and make both of those attacks?
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When you select the Rake evolution you get 2 rake attacks, but these only count as 1 attack for purposes of attack limits. Are you claiming that an eidolon cannot benefit fully from its own power and make both of those attacks?Our group DOES see that natural attack limit as a limit on natural attacks that an eidolon can make in a round and we also believe this is the intent of the column as meant by the designers.That was my initial belief. If I had to pick sides, I'd probably go with your group's interpretation. If the column was instead labeled "Max # of Attack forms", or something akin to referencing Evolutions, then I'd swing the other way.
I'm not making any "claims". I'm totally not hard set on either interpretation (hence why I've mostly been asking questions), and I have no horse in this race.
But as a casual reader of these sections, it would seem to me that 1) the "Max. Attacks" column refers to the maximum number of attacks an Eidolon can make each round, and that 2) the Rake Evolution's clause stating "This evolution counts as one natural attack toward the eidolon's maximum" does exactly that: counts as one of those "Max Attacks".
This casual reading is somewhat supported by a concept of game balance (imagine a tiny voice) that says getting 12 attacks in a round, more than any other PC option out there, probably goes against the intentions of the Eidolon's designers.
barring abilities that grant "extra attacks", such as Haste, Blessing of Fervor, and Attacks of Opportunity.
[/tongue in cheek]
But as a casual reader of these sections, it would seem to me that 1) the "Max. Attacks" column refers to the maximum number of attacks an Eidolon can make each round, and that 2) the Rake Evolution's clause stating "This evolution counts as one natural attack toward the eidolon's maximum" does exactly that: counts as one of those "Max Attacks".
This casual reading is somewhat supported by a concept of game balance (imagine a tiny voice) that says getting 12 attacks in a round, more than any other PC option out there, probably goes against the intentions of the Eidolon's designers.
barring abilities that grant "extra attacks", such as Haste, Blessing of Fervor, and Attacks of Opportunity.
[/tongue in cheek]
And I can understand that point of view from a casual reading.
The first time I saw the chart, and saw "Max Attacks," I assumed that was the number of attacks the Eidolon could make as well.
But when I read the actual description of what it meant....
This indicates the maximum number of natural attacks that the eidolon is allowed to possess at the given level. If the eidolon is at its maximum, it cannot take evolutions that grant additional natural attacks. This does not include attacks made with weapons.
...I realized it doesn't say that. It says the number of natural attacks it can possess, ie. the number of "weapons."
Usually, the number of natural attacks (weapons) will be the same as the number of attacks it can make (1 attack per natural attack).
But Eidolon Rake is written in a way that there is an exception. Even if a DM houserules against getting Rake on each Claw, it would still be an exception, since you get 2 Rake attacks, but they only count as 1 attack toward the limit.
As Abraham pointed out, there are many limitations on fully realizing all of these attacks. Hit with Claw, succeed in free Grapple check, hit with Rake, hit with other Rake, repeat x # of claws.
And as he also pointed out, that almost makes it worst. Assuming pounce (who wouldn't take pounce with this?) that would be 16 d20 rolls + 12 d6 damage rolls every round of combat.
"Because it would take too long" isn't really a rules issue, its a play issue.
Use the time management tips Paizo has published. Roll 2d20 and damage all at once. Red d20 is attack, blue d20 is grapple. If you hit you know your damage and the grapple check.
If the grapple succeeds, roll Rake attacks and damage at once. Red d20 and damage dice for one, blue d20 and damage dice for the other. If either hits you know damage. Repeat.
This is an interesting discussion. I have never but am interested in playing a Summoner so I can't wait to hear how this goes. I'm interested too in the max attacks question. For grins I compared this to another creature with many different attacks and attack forms, a dragon.
If you count the attack forms, including breath weapon, by the time a dragon gets to gargantuan size it gets 7 attack forms. If you were of the camp that considered max attacks as attack forms, that's the same for the eidolon at level 20. In those 7 forms the dragon gets however, are actually 9 attacks, but if you don't count breath weapon as an attack, eidolon evolution doesn't call this an "attack" so I'm unsure how it's counted, and you don't count crush, which is special really because of the dragon's size, then the gargantuan or colossal dragon has 7 natural attacks, like the level 20 eidolon could have. And the number of attacks available grow see the dragon does in size, while with the eidolon it's due to the increase in level.
Is this a valid comparison?
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That is a good question Manwolf. I don't have a good answer for you.
Side Note, as I pointed out in the grapple-constrict-release thread, giving the above eidolon an anaconda coils belt ~18K gives it constrict as well, for an extra 4 attacks. Giving it Final Embrace (depending on rules interpretation) would give it 8 more for a total of 24 attacks, and possibly trigger a chain cascade if the GM was very, very gulible. (Final embrace gives your natural attacks grab, rake is a natural attack, rake now has grab, grab triggers a rake, rake triggers a grab....)
So it still takes 8 times as long as my barbarians iteratives?
Even if we rolled each claw-grab-rake-rake as a single roll, that is still 4 times as long.
Are you making an argument about the rule?
A Master Summoner could summon 10 creatures....
A Necromancer or Evil Cleric can animate and control a ton of undead....
A Wildshaped Druid can have herself, her AC, and her summons....
"Because it would take too long" isn't a rules issue