@ Mellok:
Sounds like an interesting mix. Never tried playing Kobolds, though. But that combination of bloodlines would liven things up a wee bit, I'm sure!
@ DRS3:
Thanks for pointing that one out. Bookmarked it here.
So, That would mean that you could get a top level spell as normal, but at the expense of a feat slot, yes?
Just looking at the spell tables, and doing the maths, I think you'd still be slightly behind in spells if you had a single class. If I have it right. New spell slots normally come at even numbered levels, but feats at odd numbered levels.
Even so, it would still be a good way to increase spells known. Albeit at the expense of a feat slot.
@ Rerednaw:
This wasn't for a current campaign. I just wanted to see what peoples' thoughts were on that archetype. I've heard a lot of interesting ideas about the archetype; most for it instead of against it.
But I think the information I've got should work for most GMs. That's the main reason I didn't want to go too much into rule massaging.
With everything everyone's told me so far, I think I just might have a Half-Orc crossblooded build that might be a good bit of fun for PFS play, if nothing else. Just trying to tweak a few details on it, but I think it's a character with potential. Despite being a one trick pony.
More important than that. I think it would be downright fun using this character once I've got all the details worked out.
Thanks for the input, by the way. It's all being noted! Pretty well all the advice I'm getting from people are things I probably wouldn't have thought of on my own.
@ DeathlessOne:
Useful list for fixes around the WILL penalty.
I thought that a wildblood couldn't be one of the two bloodlines. Or did I get that wrong? Just want to be sure.
In tinkering with the Half-Orc stuff and noticed that if you took Sacred Tattoos, Fate's Favoured, and Iron will, that would give you a net of +2 to the WILL save. It does mean using Iron Will instead of a more "flash" feat at first level, but oh well.
The official rule is that they don't stack, but that it's not a big house rule to let them stack.
@ DeathlessOne:
Useful list for fixes around the WILL penalty.
I thought that a wildblood couldn't be one of the two bloodlines. Or did I get that wrong? Just want to be sure.
In tinkering with the Half-Orc stuff and noticed that if you took Sacred Tattoos, Fate's Favoured, and Iron will, that would give you a net of +2 to the WILL save. It does mean using Iron Will instead of a more "flash" feat at first level, but oh well.
Technically, crossblooded and wildblooded conflict because they make 'changes' to the way the bloodline arcana class feature work. I straight up ignore it simply because wildblooded changes how a single bloodline works and all crossblooded does is let you have both arcanas with a significant penalty (-2 will and -1 spells known). You still have the same 'bloodline arcana' class feature.
@ Chess Pwn:
Those should stack. Since they're not all the same kind of bonuses, which do not stack.
So Sacred tattoos gives a +1 luck bonus to all saves
Fate's Favored gives a +1 increase to all luck bonuses
And Iron will gives an unspecified +2 increase to all WILL saves.
So, unless I missed something, they should all stack because they're not the same sorts of bonuses.
@ DeathlessOne:
Thanks for that. Well, even if the wildblooded aren't allowed to be one of other bloodlines to choose from to make all manner of combinations of crossblooded sorcerers.
I guess the main thing is what bloodline arcana combinations make the most interesting mix.
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Scorching Ray is a waste of time. If you miss, the ray is wasted without effect. You need to burn feats on point blank and precise shot, when those feats should be going to empower, intensify, spell focus, spell specialization, spell penetration/piercing spell. Get burning arc from humans of golarion instead. Even better, you don't need to roll to hit, and worry about cover from pesky allies who like to charge in.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/b/burning-arc
Put both wayang spell hunter, magical lineage on fireball. BOOM.
He's talking about the archetypes, not the bonuses.
Oops! Sorry Chess Pwn!
@ Rory:
That's a tidy paperwork solution around those sort of unused spell slots. Thanks for mentioning that.
@ Just a Mort:
I guess that is the down side to Scorching Ray. Although the chance to miss shouldn't be all that high, should it? It is a ranged touch attack. So it should work nice against most who aren't very nimble.
Although missing with any spell does kind of suck.
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At low levels, range touch and ac, there is not too much difference. Sorcerers have poor bab. At higher levels, there is fireball. Why would you be using scorching ray? You're spending 2 feats to change the -8 to hit with an ally engaged with a bbeg for shoot into melee and cover, to change it into a -4. Let's say bbeg has 12 touch ac, you're level 5, with a +2 to hit. We give you 14 dex, so you have a +4 to hit. If your ally is giving cover, despite point blank and precise shot, you're at a +1 to hit ac 12. If you fail, spell is wasted. Why weren't you using magic missile instead(assuming no burning arc)? You're guaranteed 3d4+3 damage(orc bloodline assumed) unless you're unfortunate to target a guy with shield.
The downside to sorcerers is the poor BAB. Can't have everything!
It's always a bit of a chore to choose the right feats and spells for sorcerers.
The archery feats could be worthwhile if you wanted to specialize in ray attacks. Including bloodline power ray attacks. If any. Probably be best for a Half-Elf. Favoured classes as sorcerer and fighter, then get the archery buffs with 2-3 levels of fighter and then concentrate on the sorcerer shtick.
I don't think the lack of spells for a cross blooded sorcerer would be horrid if wise choices of metamagic feats are made to offset the lack of spells known.
One reason I do like the Sorcerer class is that they can cast spells on the fly, unlike wizards. Even though they can't know all that many spells. It's also a lot easier for bookkeeping too (metagaming & laziness combined there, sort of).
I went ahead and made a Half-Orc crossblooded sorcerer named Zájarthauk. For PFS play. Just because. Don't know if I'll ever get to use him, but I think he has potential.
Sine I like the Ultimate Campaign background generator, I used it to create a back story framework. Which is why he's got a couple of not-optimized feats (Scrapper & Possessed). On the other hand, with the rest of the background bits, those make a lot more back-story sense than Fate's Favoured or Reactionary.
I also made him beefier than most sorcerers. Mostly to make him less frail and more survivable. And that would better fit the random background generator for a bit more flavour and fun, etcetera.
Now all I need to do is actually write the back-story.
If anyone would like to pass on a critique, feel free. I tried basing this build mostly on what thoughts and advice people gave me on this and my other tread about blasty Half-Orc ideas.
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DEFENCE
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AC 12, Touch 12, Flat-Footed 10
HP 8
FORT +3
REF +3
WILL +3
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OFFENCE
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SPEED 30 ft.
MELEE:
• Falchion (2d4; 18-20/x2)
• Spear (1d8; x3)
• Dagger (1d4; 19-20/x2)
RANGED:
• Dagger (1d4, 10 ft; 19-20/x2)
SPACE; 5 ft.
REACH; 5 ft.
SPELLS KNOWN:
• Cantrips: Detect Magic, Disrupt Undead, Mage Hand, Ray of Frost
• Level 1: Burning Hands
======
STATISTICS
======
STR 14, DEX 14, CON 14, INT 10, WIS 10, CHA 16
BAB +0; CMB +2; CMD 14
Traits: Scrapper (race), Possessed (magic)
Feats: Iron Will
Skills (including AC penalties):
• Intimidate +9 (1 rank)
• Perception +5 (1 rank)
• Survival +5 (1 rank)
Languages: Common, Orc, Draconic, Abyssal
SQ (Class Features):
• Darkvision 60 feet and Light Sensitivity (Orc bloodline arcana)
• All damage spells do +1 HP damage per die rolled (Orc arcana)
• Fire damage spells do +1 HP damage per die rolled (Red Draconic arcana)
• Claws: two 1d4 natural claw attacks up to 6 rounds/day (Red Draconic arcana)
• Crossblooded Drawbacks: knows 1 less spell per spell level and -2 to WILL saves
• Cantrips: can cast 0 level spells
• Eschew Materials: can forgo cheap material spell components
SPELLS KNOWN: (CL 1, Touch +1, Ranged Touch +1, Concentration +4):
• Detect Magic (level 0): Detect magical auras in a 60 ft cone
• Disrupt Undead (level 1): Ray does 1d6+1 positive energy damage to undead
• Mage Hand (level 0): Telekinesis of small objects 5 lb or less
• Ray of Frost (level 0): Ray does 1d3+1 cold damage
• Burning Hands (level 1): 15 ft cone of flames does 1d4+2 fire damage
Current Kit
• an iron pot
• backpack
• bedroll
• belt pouch
• flint and steel
• mess kit
• soap
• torches (10)
• trail rations (5 days)
• water skin
• Traveller's Outfit
• Ink x2
• Ink Pen x2
• Journal
• Parchment (1 sheet) x10
• Scroll Case
• Spell Component Pouch
• Dagger x2
• Falchion
• Spear
Total encumbrance of 44 lbs. (light)
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SPECIAL ABILITIES
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• Skilled: gets 1 additional skill rank per level.
• Intimidating: +2 racial bonus to Intimidate
• Orc Blood: both Human and Orc for effects related to race
• Sacred Tattoo: +1 luck bonus on all saving throws.
• Weapon Familiarity: great-axes, falchions and "Orc" weapons are martial
• Languages: Common & Orc
• Scrapper (race trait): a +1 trait bonus to both demoralize foes by Intimidate & Perception to avoid being surprised
• Possessed (magic trait): once per day, make an untrained knowledge check of your choice
• Iron Will: +2 to WILL saves
======
PHYSICAL DESCRIPTION
======
Age: 18 years old
Height: 5 ft. 2 in. (158 cm)
Weight: 180 lbs. (82 kg)
Skin: Light Green
Build: Stocky
Hair: Short, red-black
Eyes: Yellow-Grey
Special: Eyes look jaundiced. Black hair has streaks of fire red, as if dyed.
@ strayshift:
Just at level one?
I'm partial to sorcerers mostly because they don't have to mess about with a spell book. Which is a bit more paperwork for a player (like me).
And in purely practical terms, a wizard's spell book is a bit of a weakness. As I see it anyway. A spell book can get destroyed or stolen. But it is a trade off too. Wizards are way better for skills and wide selection of spells, whereas sorcerers have few skills and spells, but their magic is always ready to go each day.
Just my personal preference.
One thing tho that people seem to forget, you get one less spell known each level but you still get the spell slot....and the bloodline spells so you technically have a fixed choice at your normal progression.
Well, you can select either spell of your bloodlines so your pool of spells is rather small, i still would have prefered that you got spells from both lists without having to do a choice and still lose out on the spells known from the class.
It would make sense since the Sorcerer already get spellsknown 1 free choice + 1 bloodline, and taking crossblooded would just given you 0 free choice + 2 bloodline.
They still get the spell slots though, so they have to make do by either preparing lower level spells into the 2nd level spell slot, or metamagic-ing the lower level spells.Preparing being entirely the wrong word notwithstanding, Void points out the single biggest, most glaring problem crossblooded sorcerers face. The -10% on Will saves is a whatever. Effectively delaying new spell accrual by an additional entire level compared to their peers means a crossblooded sorcerer is now an entire spell level behind a wizard, which is pretty much never worth the benefits crossblooded grants.
...
I actually see the -2 to will saves to be worse. A "-10%" is a bit of a mis-representation. it is only a -10% if you rolled a 20. If you roll a 13, it is a -15%. But even that is misleading, because a percent loss is meaningless. Unlike a damage roll, it only makes a difference if you fail the save. Yes it is your good save, but wisdom rarely gest a priority for sorcs. Some even consider it a dump stat. So a -2 on top of a -1 or -2 begins to look like you will fail the save more often than make it. Can be worse than the fighter or rogue for whom it is a bad save. I've seen a few crossblooded blaster sorcs that seem to blast their allies as often as the enemy. (It's not really that often, but it feels like it because it is so devastating when it happens.)
I can and usually do get a few pages of spell knowledge. Most sorcs do have at least 1 meta-magic feat that they were planning to use a lot anyway.
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@ Just a Mort:
That's a fair point. I guess the irony is that by crossing bloodlines you pretty well create one trick ponies. Or closer to it. I usually like my PCs being more along the lines of a generalist.
But sometimes a one-trick pony is fun. Especially if you can find some imaginative way out of a fix where your bag of tricks are wanting!
Well you don't have to be a one trick pony, but it does definitely hurt your versatility.
It is generally an option for people that want to go with a theme anyway.
Generalist is very tough for sorc anyway. Arcanist would be a better choice.