DRS3's page

I really don't get a chance to play characters as I am generally (over 90% of the time) the game master for my group(s). I have seen it in play and while it certainly has some negatives that you pointed out. It gains in that you can actually prepare all combat spells you will need and if you truly need a utility spell to solve a problem you more than likely can nab something off the cleric druid or bard list to solve said problem.

There is also the trick where you use the preferred spell feat to be able to spontaneously cast any one spell you want off the druid cleric or bard list you truly want access to all the time.

I look at the archtype as the ultimate generalist wizard, and you aren't entirely screwed if you lose access to your spellbook. Furthermore if you want a familiar there isn't really anything stopping you from dipping say sorcerer and snagging a bloodline familiar or doing the whole animal ally thing and getting an animal companion instead. In addition to all this if you walk on the darker side of the alignment spectrum you have access to desecrate so your undead will be stronger than the average necromancer and you have the distinction of being able to start making undead as early as level 3 (using lesser animate dead off the cleric list) meaning with enough downtime and a small monetary investment (or none if you use false focus as a feat) you can have a compliment of 12 skeletons or zombies to fight for you which pretty much wins any scenario you might face at those levels.

The once per day +4 CL boost is excellent for augmenting summons spells which are a little weak on duration early on. Or for turning that burning hands spell into a save or die at level 1. Or making mage armor last for 33%-50% of your adventuring day. Finally as early as possible I would craft or find someone to craft a Staff of Entwined Serpents which gives you something to replace cantrip spam early on.

Regards,
DRS

Might I suggest a slightly different route? Spell sage archtype. It gives you access to pretty much every spell in the game which will allow you to forgo a lot of those spell craft increases. Remember its +5 for every requirement you miss. This lets you create things that might normally be out of your ken. Not to mention being able to brew healing potions and the like for emergencies. Plus Blood Money combined with access to Heal at high levels is just ridiculous.

Regards,
DRS

If you have greater invisibility then you wouldn't need to worry about flanking. Think of it like this, to get sneak attack damage you need to check YOUR status not your illusions's status. As long as your foe is sneak attackable by YOU then your bonus damage applies. There is a feat that can help you with this I think. Gnome only too threatening illusions or something like that. Its meta-magic. With magical lineage (ghost sound) you can create endless flankers with this combo. Lame, but combine that with Greater invisibility (or ring of invisibility) and the permanent image trick I mentioned earlier you can really extend your spell casting legs and murdertize individuals. Not exactly wizardly but reminds me slightly of the mesmer class from guild wars 2.

An ongoing figment is any figment spell cast without the duration having expired.

Regards,
DRS

A really nifty trick you can use with shadow gambit, should you ever get 6th level spells, is to combine it with permanent image to preload a whole bunch of 6d6 nukes upon your person. Since the spell has a duration of Permanent (d) every day you have downtime you memorize it and cast it on yourself creating an image of whatever on your clothes or a small bright orb floating above your head or whatever you like. A very high level illusionist might have hundreds of these preloaded and ready to take advantage of at a moments notice. Furthermore you should be an unchained rogue as their sneak attack is super in that ignores some forms of concealment.

Regards,
DRS

High level casters don't directly fight each other. Seriously they don't. Especially high level arcane casters, because they have learned over the years the one true tactic that allowed them to become high level. Cowardice.

In truth when high level casters have disagreements they sit down to coffee/tea/lunch each brings a plan with various offensive options and defensive options, discuss them with each other and then mutually declare a winner and walk away alive perhaps with new insight in magical tactics. If that isn't enough they fight proxy wars through adventurers, constructs, undead, dominated minions, or have the fight while in astral projection. Anything that would avoid getting your soul trapped or utterly consumed leaving your backup mortality plan in jeopardy.

Regards,
DRS

Might I ever so humbly suggest the Spell Sage archtype of the Wizard?

Access to cleric/druid/bard spells gives as well as a caster level boost ability, false focus feat and some reasonable downtime means at the low low level of 3 you can have a small army of shambling corpses from lesser animate dead with those juicy desecrate bonuses for the low low low cost of some grave robbing or brutal and thoughtless murder combined with some mending spells. Corpses are objects right? Means you should be able to repair combat damage with the mending cantrip. Lame but useful argument.

Also means you can be a really good crafter (blood money + heal?!), add in some cheese with preferred spell and you can snag Explosion of Rot from the druid list as your go to nuke (its basically a nuke that does untyped damage that affects almost anything golems included serious business). Only issue with it is that it competes for other fourth level spells which lets be honest are always Emergency Force Sphere, Dimension Door, and for the necromancer Fear and Enervation.

Regards,
DRS

Let's see here. if they are just stacked field stones and no mortar, and with that thickness they could likely push over those walls so we have to assume there is mortar holding them together, even if it is something like a calcium carbonate mortar (limestone). There are A LOT of interior walls in that place, so many that the load is well distributed. It is 110 ft (22 squares)long at the longest and 50 ft (10 squares) wide at the widest point, we have to assume a wood based roof because making a stone roof out of fielded stone would be a pain, if its even doable (I'm sure someone somewhere has tried, human nature to want to build the impossible, quarried stone is much better for that sort of thing). If the roof load is buttressed destroying some of the interior walls probably won't do a thing, if not then they would probably have to drop a significant amount of wall in E3, and in doing so most likely bury themselves in the rubble.

If using hand tools the locals are definitely going to notice and at least ask a few questions, if using magic like disintegrate they could likely bring down the whole damn place in 2-3 casts if you calculate by volume, if you rule that just 10 foot of the wall goes down then it'll take far more. Long and short I think they would have to take out just about every wall in E3. If those 's' (I think they mean secret but whatever) mean structural, then taking those down would cause the collapse and those people in e3 and e8 would take the worst of it. If not then like I said before almost every wall in e3 would have to be dropped to collapse the roof, and likely the side rooms (assuming similar material was used) would be relatively safe, safer.... safeish. Still wouldn't want to be in one of them though.

Whatever you rule tell your players to look up Collapses and Cave Ins in the CRB to see what they might be subjecting themselves to as to remind them undermining the structural integrity of a building while inside the building is unwise.

Regards
DRS

What are our assets?

Sorry it must be said.

Your brains, fezzik's strength, my steel.

Regards
DRS

I always found range increments to be fairly decent in pathfinder. A composite longbow fires accurately at about 36-37 yards with no penalty in Pathfinder. From 38-72 yards you are at a -2 to hit which represents roughly 10% more difficulty, and this is assuming there isn't wind, winds apply penalties to ranged combat listed under environment in the CRB, and those can just outright make ranged attacks impossible but if they were shooting in the strongest wind pathfinder models that allows for bow shots at 200 foot with regular longbows they are at -8 to hit with composite they are at - 6. After the first range increment the penalty doesn't increase quick enough for my liking either but at that rate you are likely engaging someone that can't fit on your battle-mat unless you change the scale, assuming longbow/composite longbow of course.

Regards,
DRS

@DRS: They were ghouls with maybe a class level. One ghoul shooting every other round has 40 rounds until he's dry. At the end of this encounter, each ghoul is only going to be down to 80% ammo. If ammo was a concern, they wouldn't be rapid shotting.

OP hasn't described how effective the ambush was. For all we know, the PCs were at half health and had used up all their healing. They split the party and did not encounter any serious resistance. That sounds like a very successful ambush to me, but if they missed every shot, you're right, forget it.

Going half in on an ambush is kinda foolish but okay say they started in ammo conservation mode that's fine even ups them +2 to hit. With one class level assuming fighter because easiest that gives them weapon finesse (MM entry could be changed for all we know) and 2 more feats likely point blank shot and either precise shot or rapid shot. Roughly 20-21 hp assuming average ac 16ish. Likely in light armor, so chain shirt or leather llamalar, maybe even leather lets not speculate too deeply on it. Obviously the group is more built for ripping things up in melee (Melee Druid and Magus) the melee could drop em in 1 shot (undead so gone at 0) if they are semi optimized at level 4. I might have even drawn off as the ghouls if I had inflicted some harsh casualties and murdertized them during the night, when we likely had more of an advantage, and could start close enough for an ambush shot, charge and hope for a para claw.

Regards,
DRS

I tend to sack Enchantment unless I absolutely know I am going to specialize in it. Too much of enchantment can be hosed with Protection from whatever, a first level spell. Then I tend to sack *gasp* divination. Not because divination is a bad school it is absolutely eyeball explodingly awesome, but a lot of what you can do with it can be accomplished in the downtime when spell slots aren't at a premium. The only spell from divination I find to be irreplaceable is True Seeing, you'll get sunglasses that can give you that eventually.

So that leaves us with what school to spec in. Other party members are Cavalier, Fighter, Inquisitor. Not much to go on there without knowing what their shticks are but we can assume you will be casting buffs a fair amount. That makes Transmutation a bloody good idea. Enlarge Person, Stat Buffs, Fly, Haste are all Transmutation, also transmutation is a huge school so lots of choices for that extra spell slot.

Lets say you aren't going to be a buffer, but a battlefield controller. Okay then you are likely to be a Conjurer, Summons, Planar Binds, Pits, Walls and Clouds ohh my. Not sure what to memmorize in your shiny spec slot? Outside of character levels 1-3 you could throw the appropriate summon monster spell in there and be fine.

Illusion can break the game or can be boned by table variation, without knowing your GM, I can't in good conscious recommend specializing in it.

Evocation is all about the meta magic, intensify, dazing empowered (maybe), rime, maximize those burning hands and fireballs as much as you can. Dip XBlood Sorcerer for damage die additive, perhaps consider playing School Savant Arcanist Admixture instead of wizard for semi spontaneous casting (makes some metamagic shenanigans easier), heck with the bloodline development exploit you basically trade the Arcanist capstone, for the sorc one, also in this case pick up See Magic exploit to cover some of the divination you gave up. The other option is use evocation to push people around, big hands of force and the like, toppling spell can help in this regard but becomes hyper weak as you go up in levels so use with care and perhaps retrain.

And for the one school you didn't list. Necromancy. Necromancy gets a bad rap as being all about blarg evil undead stuff. However, necromancy sports some strong debuffs and a smattering of decent blasts should that be needed. Just watch out some nasty good spells carry [evil] so make sure you don't toss those around like candy. At first level you have ray of sickening, chill touch (damage + Str Damage or send undead running), Cause Fear nice little time out, and if you ever become living impaired, are a dhampir or happen to pick up necromantic affinity you can even heal yourself a bit with Repair Undead. Second level you have False life, Ghoul Touch, Stricken Heart, Blindness/Deafness, Command Undead. All Good Times. Third level Howling Agony, Marionette's Possession, Ray of Exhaustion. Fourth is enervation and we all know how that can be meta magicitified into a powerhouse, add to it Boneshatter for a nuke, Bestow Curse for giggles, for a little evil stuff Shadow Projection (protip use it on your familiar it is hilarious [evil] though), round out with Fear.
So yeah consider necromancy as a possible spec.

Regards,
DRS

Also, you're not playing to your mercs' high intelligence if, after 8 rounds of no serious resistance, they retreated instead of continuing to harass the party, perhaps to the point of one or more deaths. A hit and fade strategy revolves around fading at the first signs significant resistance, or anticipation of significant resistance. If 8 rounds of sniping tells the ghouls that the PCs have no effective means of fighting back, they should take that as the go-ahead to crush them. In the middle of enemy territory, they know there's no reinforcements coming, and in Pathfinder, 8 rounds is an eternity. If the PCs haven't done anything useful in 8 rounds, the foes should assume that nothing threatening is forthcoming. 4 rounds is enough for the vast majority of combats to have a clear winner, even if it takes a couple more rounds to mop up.

Depends on the objective of the ghouls and their supply lines. A quiver of arrows is 20 shots. Assuming rapid shot that means after 8 rounds they are down to 4 arrows. If they are staggering fire then they are down to 12 arrows. If they only have 1 quiver of arrows each 8 rounds of staggered fire without inflicting any real or noticeable causalities the ghouls might just say "Eh we aren't doing anything here but wasting ammo, lets draw off, meet at the rendezvous point, and see if we can't figure out a better plan." Also the engagement taught the mercenaries that these guys are not prepared for ranged combat as of this time and can factor that in future ambushes. I know a lot of individuals say that ranged combat is the best style but a high level fighter can blow through a quiver of arrows in like 3 rounds. Endless ammunition enchant is +2 so a total of a minimum +3 weapon likely out of these mercs price range. Keeping missle weapons fed is a chore. Furthermore the whole idea of a ranged ambush is so that you don't have to go meet them in melee until the victory is a foregone conclusion, if they survived 8 rounds of bombardment and were still on the right side of the dirt then said ambush was not effective enough to warrant an advance.

As for the ambush "If you ever find yourself in a fair fight then your tactics suck"

Regards,
DRS

Other than the move action Perception checks I don't have a problem with this style of encounter. Point of fact I often use this sort of encounter though generally I use it with 'cowardly' low level critters with dex boni such as goblins. The fact you had already determined that this was a tick tock (max number of rounds, though to be fair they wouldn't have known that) encounter that they only had to survive should have been easy. A simple obscuring mist spell combined with prone would give layered defenses that were likely enough to foil the ambush entirely.

Let's face it every time I've been a player and the GM describes an area as being heavily wooded on either side of a central feature (valley road whatever) not only do I expect an ambush but I often try to move using the cover of the woodlands. Just makes since worst case I stumble onto the baddies or they ambush me where there are lots of trees for cover and concealment enabling a chance at escape, but it stops them from dictating every aspect of the fight.

These guys are adventure's, spellcasters adventurers to boot, their lack of paranoia is the problem here.

Only thing I suggest to do in the future, before running a game sit down and tell your players what kind of game you tend to run. If they have it in their head they are playing Heroic fantasy where they run up to the giant climb upon its back and stab it to death, but you are envisioning a gritty game where that giant nonchalantly flicks the bugger of his back and then stomps him to mush its going to be bad times. As long as everyone is on the same page and realizes that it is entirely possible for a PC to die in ambush from an arrow to the neck, at least it will be expected and players can plan accordingly.

Regards,
DRS

One to consider if you can change spells to cold via rod or elemental spell is a Rimed Snapdragon Firework. That way you can cast spells as a standard and use your move to activate firework forcing another save.

Actually elemental spell doesn't change the spells descriptor so you really can't rime spell things switched to cold damage with it as rime spell can only be added to cold descriptor spells.

In point of fact even the base elemental sorcerer bloodline doesn't change the descriptor just its "type" which some hidebound GM rule that Water Elemental bloodline sorcerers can't apply rime spell to their element switched fireballs. Luckily there is the Marid bloodline that allows you to do that and calls out descriptor change.

Which is why rime spell sorta sucks for wizards, even admixture ones since they can't 'prepare' rimed cold fireballs they need to have preferred spell to meta-magic fireballs on the fly (or I guess maybe spell perfection but come on you toss maximize or dazing on a fireball with perfection not Rime).

Regards,
DRS

Disclaimer: Haven't read every response.

I'm leaning Lawful Neutral.

This person hasn't given up on the ideals that the Dragon Guard had, just realized that they could not live up to the hype so to speak. She continues the work that she once admired them for and as such keeps faith the the oaths she swore.

As to the murdertizing of nobles and Dragon Guard richards, precisely what else can she do? She is a criminal under the sentence of death, not like she can waltz up to the local magistrate or their superior officer (who may be just as corrupt as the people mistreating the locals) and lodge a formal complaint against their behavior. Further more she knows just how quickly things done by these guys can snowball out of control. Now if she shanks a noble for spitting on a peasant she probably is sliding towards evil quite quickly. But if they are using physical violence against the locals, I think she is justified in killing them having no real other options or avenues open to her other than maybe knocking em out and carrying them to the edge of the village with a note please don't do that again. Of course I argue that she has given these twits enough chances considering they know precisely where she is and haven't come for her ostensibly because she is badarse enough to hand them their rears. If she was truly EVIL with a capital E, she would realize hey I can and have clowned these guys on a regular basis why don't I just go end these fools once and for all and be done with it. Instead she hangs out in her village and says "On my home turf behave or lose a foot of height". Given the organization thats remarkably lenient.

Regards,
DRS

Ahh the Ice Mage is a wonderful option for a spell caster and there is a continuum of how to build one.

For damage quite honestly we are best served by Xblood sorc Orc/Drac VMC admixture wizard, and possibily the Irrisen Icemage feat (+1 CL cold spells, -1 cl all other energy types, 3/day switch other spells to cold) at level 1. On you cold spells you will be doing +2 damage per die and starting at level 7 you will be adding half your level to all evocation damage which is pretty dang sweet. Downside? Spells known, which can be partially alleviated by Human FCBs, so locks you into half elf/orc, or good ole human. None of them are bad choices by the by. Build is functional starting around level 5, but jiggered correctly and ray of frost will see you through a lot. Starting at 1d3+2(aracanas)+1 (get a vial of alchemical ice for +1 damage on it). On a hilarious note at level 20 with this build ray of frost does 1d3 +12 damage without any additives. The best part about this build is as long as you don't dump int (you wont dump int as a caster right?) you'll have minimum 6 conversions to cold damage available a day starting at level 7 and 3 per day at level 1 and all of them add a caster level. You play this build like a hammer because it limits your options but the damage it does is acceptable and with Rime spell you add a minor control effect, dazing is what it always is, and that is good.

Now that is a lot of resources and downsides but I personally have played a similar build (no VMC back then) and it was effective (level 2 was unpleasant though).

At the other end of the continuum you just take Rime Spell and play a normal caster. Seriously. Sorc /Wiz spells below. Remember this isn't even a comprehensive list cause it doesn't include divine and semi divine spells like unholy ice weapon and polar midnight.

1st Level spells: Snowball, Frostbite, Icicle Dagger (does it work with rime spell I mean it does deal 1 pt cold damage and the spell has the cold descriptor so muwahaha, conjuration though so no intense spells)

2nd Level spells: Frigid Touch, Elemental Touch (cold)(more effective than you'd think but you need to add rime to it spontaneously), Frost fall great googly moogly Rime Spell Frostfall, even flurry of snowballs.

3rd Level Spells: Ice Spears (ohh the things you can do with ice spears its a mini wall of ice to boot, and of course rime spell it for more fun, is conjuration so no intense spells), Sleet Storm (massive area control), Elemental Aura (cold).

4th Level spells: Creeping Ice (Utility), Frosty Aura (not great unless you have the cold subtype already) Ice Storm, Wall of Ice.

5th Level Spells: Cone of Cold (meh), Icy Prison.

6th Level Spells: Cold Ice Strike (mic drop). Ohh and there is also Otil.... *ahem* Freezing Sphere, Ice Crystal Teleport to round out the level.

7th Level Spells: Elemental Bombardment (Ice), Ice Body, Frost Mammoth.

8th Level Spells: Polar Ray

9th Level Spells: Icy Prison (Mass)

So without sacrificing ONE feature on a caster for an archtype or doing anything fancy with a build you can make an ice mage that can make enemies tremble both from fear and frost.

Regards,
DRS

Wizard 6 is deceptively good, which is why you should probably go that route. +1 to all saves and Bab.

Regards,
DRS

Well Ararlost you really aren't filling any slots with metamagic, just using metamagic to use those higher spell slots, which you can use anyhow just casting first level spells. Anyhow I actually think the "best" blaster build nowadays would be an arcanist with a single dip in xblood sorc and VMC wizard: evocation (admixture). Ultimate metamagic flexibility, change energy types based on int, Intense spells and bloodline arcanas.

Now the overall problem with any blaster build is most choose fireball as their spell of choice, Spell Immunity or Lesser globe of invulnerability can totally shut down the build entirely. This is why blasting as a wizard sucks, you base everything you have into fireball-ing things, don't have enough other options memmed to deal with those simple 4th-level spells. At least sorcs can have summons or dispel magic at their fingertips whilst having their blasting options.

Regards,
DRS

Problem with any ranged attack is a -4 penalty for shooting into a melee, and a chance at pegging your own guys. So you need precise shot to negate that, which requires point blank shot. Two feats gone. Now if you are going to be a ray specialist of some sort (and that's not entirely a bad thing considering how many really good ray spells there are), you should pick those feats up, and possibly look at eldritch knight or bullseye shot feat (give up move action for +4 on your attack roll requires PBS and Precise though pretty much guarantees a hit on touch ac). But not exactly the way I would want to run an xblood sorcerer.

Regards,
DRS

another way around the lost level of spells known is to use the 3.5 Feat Extra Spell known.

This gave you an extra spell at the highest level you could cast. Simply choose your bloodline spell.

At every level you gain your bloodline spell, you also happen to gain access to a new spell level. Let the feat 'mature' to the next level, while you replace the old version of it with your bloodline spell.

Note: I've seen three different versions of this over time.

1) Gain new spell of highest level castable.

2) As 1, OR gain 2 spells at least 1 level lower then highest castable.

3) Gain 2 Spells known of any level castble (the only one on the PFSRD at this time, and 3rd party).

GM approval required for this to work, of course.

Since all it means is you get your normal bloodline spells at the same time you gain the ability to cast spells of that level, shouldn't be a problem.

==Aelryinth

Expanded Arcana in advanced players guide.

Regards,
DRS

Honestly it comes down to one ruling (I don't religiously read the FAQs so this might have been answered there already). Does having next level spell slots but no spells known enable you to use the human FCB to take spells of one level lower than your highest spell slot? If no then would having the heighten spell feat enable it cause you actually are casing 2nd level spells then.

Anyhow if so x-blood isn't unplayable its just incredibly focused. A decent blaster build at level 1 off the top of my head.
Trait: Havoc of the society (enables all sorts of nifty tricks with dazing cause of that one point of force damage), waywang spell hunter: fireball most likely.
Race: half elf trade skill focus for +2 will save (Wee no draw back!),
human is also good for the extra feat.
Feat: point blank shot feat (retrain later if needed)

Buy a dose of alchemical focus for ray of frost, Orc/Draconic (cold). Ray of frost now will do 1d3 +3, +1 (untyped pbs) +1 force or 6-8 damage at level 1. Take sleep or color spray for your first level spell though id prefer sleep due to range, maybe disrupt undead if you run into some cold immune shambling corpses. If you are really sneaky go VMC: Admixture wizard. Familiar is good at 3 (its [evil] but shadow projection can be shared with a familiar which is hilarious) or you could look up all the stuff in the familiar folio, intense spells and change energy types 3+int mod per day at 7. Which lets you add rime spell to your fire(frost)balls. 2nd level will be rough (only get a cantrip), but after that you should be fine. (Up to you whether FCB of 3 hp/skill or cantrips is a go until level 4/5 depending on ruling). most CR 1/3 or 1/4 are one shot by that ray of frost, cr 1/2 ,1 will take 2 or three doses but that is what sleep is for.

Regards,
DRS

To take the thread in a completely different direction, if you have a problem with casters, I have found borrowing a 2nd ed D&D solution that helps enormously with casters of all varieties.

No bonus spell slots from high stats. (Yeah I know clerics and druids got extra spells from high stats but take it away from all classes to be fair.) This cuts down on their renewable resources and forces them to expend money either on rings of wizardry/pearls of power or similar items for their class.

Regards,
DRS

Actually, they spoke about the slings being equivalent or better than composite bows in range (which were around way before Xenophon), slings are actually very fast, you don't twirl the sling around that much, more than one rotation and you really can't accurately release the shot, additionally, 40 pound draw bows would be a joke, a composite bow of decent make had about 100-120 pound draw, a longbow could have up to 180. Even a decent simple bow would have 70-80 pound draw to be useful in hunting. Lastly sling shot was widely regarded in the ancient world as more deadly than arrows. Publius Ventidius' campaigns against the Parthians under the command of Quintus Labienus, and later Pacorus proved that sling shot could penetrate cataphract style armor, whereas arrows had markedly less success.

Regards,
DRS

Actually boring7, slings out ranged bows for the majority of the life cycle of both weapons, witness Xenophon's experiences during the march of the 10,000. Sling ammunition could take the form of river rocks, bullets of baked clay (very common in the British Isles, where even the early iron age defenses were designed with slingers in mind), or lead bullets. Finally, sling stones don't lose velocity as quick as arrows do due to density and less surface area for wind resistance, which leads to greater effective range.

As for the 3.5/Pathfinder, if you have greater than 13 strength, and one attack per round, the sling is your ranged weapon of choice. After that dump your cash on the appropriate mighty whatever bow.

Regards,
DRS

With that thin a crust with a hollow interior and 'earth' level gravity wouldn't the whole thing implode? I would think you'd have to make the crust out of some ridiculously hard material just to resist such compression, densely packed earth or pelagic clay probably won't get the job done. Or is that going to be a wizard did it thing, yeah probably best that a wizard did it. Are we to assume earth-like flattening values or are we dealing with a perfect sphere? I mean that diameter is roughly earth sized, slightly smaller. 11250 kilometers vs 12600ish kilometers for earth, so for roughing it in should we be using earth values for all the variables?

The simpler answer is the upward curve of the horizon occurs at the speed of plot. Unless your entire gaming group are geologists, nasa engineers, or straight up math nerds I don't think they'll call you on it. And if they do... throw more mutant aberrations at them, or explain it as an ever shifting thing as a result of external pressures or whatever.

Regards,
DRS

I remember a DM long ago that had a frost giant living in a warm climate that would run around naked attacking caravans and using goblins as scouts... very weird encounter but incredibly fun.

Regards,
DRS

You're absolutely right about prerequisites being a cost, but it's a question of value for cost. You can spend your first two feats on a combo that grants you a considerable bonus to AC, initiative, reflex saves and so on - and the bonus gets larger and larger by level as your primary ability stat grows. Or, you can spend your first two feats on...? There are certainly other options, but they simply pale in comparison to being able to ignore strength. Believe me, I wish it wasn't so.

You can use various strategies to compensate for the lower AC, but that's just using resources less efficiently; not to mention that those same strategies can be pursued by the guy with already high AC for even higher AC anyways. A dex-based Magus can 'waste' some of his AC advantage by picking up a mithril breastplate for the +1 net AC, and he's still got a major advantage in three areas.

Strength is never wasted, a Str based magus will probably have around 13 dex, and about 16-18 str, depending on point buy. Dex based melee fighters can't ignore strength, this makes them vulnerable to generalized stat damage out of the gate. Strength also helps carrying capacity which for some reason people forget is still a thing and armor is heavy.

I find that not being able to get Dex to damage off the ground until level 5 (Weapon finesse at one, Focus at 3, Fencing grace at 5) to be crap. Now kensai (which has its own issues with casting) get around this with bonus weapon focus but they can't wear armor so are naturally more inclined to be dex based. So for the low cost of 3 feats and 5 levels you are finally able to do what the strength magus has been doing since level 1. Meanwhile at level 3 the strength magus takes extra arcana and precise strike so he's doing more damage then too. And he does more damage when he uses thrown weaponry. If his rapier gets disarmed or sundered and he draws his backup weapon bam his best offensive combat statistic still works.

Furthermore magus are very VERY feint-able given their bab unless you are dropping points in sense motive at every level which you probably aren't. Which is a big nasty thing when most of your ac is based off dex. Yeah he'll have better reflex saves than the strength magus. 9 times out of 10 if you asked me which save I would be okay with failing its going to be reflex. Fort you die, Will you kill your friends, reflex you take more damage than you could have.

Now I'm not saying that dex based magus or dex based anything suck, but what I am arguing is that they aren't hands down the 'optimal' choice.

Regards,
DRS

Well at low levels you really shouldn't worry about AC (sounds strange I know stick with me). You aren't using your nifty weapon of choice cause you are using the longspear because you aren't using spell combat that often. Why are you using a longspear? Because its pointy, and it kills things over there, and if they try to get near you it kills things over here too. By level 3 you have enough daily spells to afford to cast shield in nasty combats. Spell strike works with a two handed weapon, just not spell combat so you can still use the longspear as well. 1d8+ 1.5 str will kill most things in one shot at level 1 for most str based chars.

If you are really worried about AC (and are PFS) take tiefling as your race and Armor of the Pit as your first level feat. Studded + AotP + 13 dex = 16 ac which is survivable till level 7 when you fork over the cash for a mithril breastplate.

Regards,
DRS

Really, there are so many absurd advantages to a going Dex for a Magus it's just... well, both great and sad. The usual damage advantages of going strength are pretty much nothing when you're already using a weapon one-handed, can get dex-to-damage with it, AND can grab the Swashbuckler's Precise Strike.

Because of the huge importance of critical hits, Fencing Grace rapier or Dervish Dance scimitar are - now more than ever, (sigh) - the better choices for a Magus.

Disagree Strongly. All melee weapons default to strength for the low low cost of zero feats invested. For dex to damage to work you need weapon finesse minimum or weapon focus and weapon finesse. And magi can't get weapon focus until level 3 because of the +1 Bab prereq, unless your archetype gives it. Not saying dex builds are bad but many people discount the simplicity of stabbing someone with brutish abandon. Strength works from level one and does so if you are wielding a cricket bat or a rapier. Thog already knows how to use his best stat in combat after all.

Regards,
DRS

Is it me or is the precise strike Arcane deed a stupid good addition to the magus?

Pretty much eliminates the need for Power Attack, EVER.

No more str based Magai

Just make your str based magus use a rapier, seriously, all you lose is the ability to 2 hand your weapon. Rapiers like all melee weapons naturally default to str, you spend feats to use dex with them. As a bonus you can also use daggers for throwing attacks for short distance.

Regards,
DRS

Spell combat wrote:

This functions much like two-weapon fighting, but the off-hand weapon is a spell that is being cast

and

Precise strike wrote:

To use this deed, a swashbuckler cannot attack with a weapon in her other hand or use a shield other than a buckler

So IMOH since the wording of precise strike is rather clear Can not attack with off hand weapon. It would stack and work

1 st case: Spell combat and a buff like spell: ie Shield / bull Str etc...

You are not attacking with you're off hand weapon

(=> so it should stack)

2nd case: Spell combat and attack spell : ie Frostbite / Shocking grasp etc...

And use your off hand to make a touch attack

while you are attacking with off hand a spell isn't considered a weapon (even if you are considered armed because of the touch spell)

(=> so it should stack)

3 rd case: Spell combat and attack spell : ie Frostibe / Shocking grasp etc... Using spellstrike to deliver the spell
you are using the weapon in your main hand to deliver the spell casted. Therefore not attacking with a weapon in your off hand

(=> so it should stack)

Personally I believe that in case 2 it doesn't work. Case 1 should be expanded to include spells that don't have an attack roll associated with them such as obscuring mist (which would likely turn off precision damage anyway but that's another argument) in short the spell doesn't force a save or have a save as the only possible defense against it then precise strike works because the criteria have been met.

With spellstrike it works because the criteria have been met (only 1 weapon making the attacks).

It doesn't work with non spell striked touches because now you are attacking with two different 'weapons'.

At least thats my take on it.

Regards,
DRS

Id switch dex and wis since you aren't going dex build. Eventually you will be in full plate (adamantine full plate) and the dex 15 will be slightly wasted. As far as my flexible stat bonus, probably strength to 18 and then you can forget about that stat for good. Do not white hair witch, I know its a thing now, but you get a good chunk of what it offers from prehensile hair alone, and doesn't delay your advance in your chosen class at all. Also some advice, free of charge, the long spear, carry one for the first few levels ditch it once you hit level 3. I emphatically agree that Half-Elf is your go to race.

As for your main weapon of choice, now with ACG, hands down rapier. Because at 3rd you take Flamboyant Arcana as your arcana, and then your feat is Extra Arcana and Arcane Deed: Precise strike. Now someone will pop up and say "by the strictest RAW reading it doesn't work' you counter with, all swashbuckler deeds reference 'the swashbuckler' not 'the magus' which makes all the deed options magus can pick up (including the ones from flamboyant) useless. Could it be they left out a line? Yeah. Could it be that they looked at it and said "Only a daft person would think these don't do what they are meant to do" Possibly. But, what this does is gives you your Magus level to damage with light or one hand piercing weapons, including when thrown within 30ft as long as you maintain 1 point in your arcane pool.

Now onto some theoretical things that might go against the grain of what most people think is optimal. Arcane Accuracy? Ignore it, yes its a nice bonus to hit, but we want to limit our Arcane Pool usage in this build, and AA chews Arcane Pool fairly quickly. Evil Eye? Id steer clear of it for this build. Magi are about quickly taking someone down (Nova) or one action debuffing them into uselessness (your build) evil eye is a 'pressure cooking' ability best left to a witch, hexes I'd look at are (in no particular order) Healing, Fortune, Slumber, Misfortune, Flight, Swamp's Grasp, Water lung, Charm. Let's talk feats, I may suggest (and this goes against the canonical Walter's Guide), Arcane Strike, why? ACG mostly, there is feat from there called Riving Strike, which gives people a -2 to saves vs spells and spell-likes for 1 round after hitting them with a melee weapon enhanced by Arcane Strike, which provides great synergy with spell combat and further it accomplishes what your build wants to do, debuff while doing damage. Also lets you enhance your sling bullets at levels 1-2 for 1d4+5 damage assuming 18 str which is not entirely horrible. Should you choose to go another route you can pick up Arcane Deed: Menacing Swordplay which lets you intimidate a target you hit with your rapier as a swift action as long as you have one Arcane Pool Point remaining, which means you aren't using Arcane Strike so ditch that. This means Intimidating Prowess at level 1 granting you your strength bonus + your int bonus to intimidate so which means at level 1 your intimidate will be 1 rank + 3 class skill bonus, +3 Skill Focus, + 4 str, +3 Int= +14.

Putting it all together looks something like this.
Half Elf Freebies: Either the +2 to will save or Skill Focus (Intimidate) (If going menacing swordplay)
1. Arcane Strike or Intimidating Prowess (if going Menacing Swordplay)
2. -
3. Flamboyant Arcana, Extra Arcana: Arcane Deed: Precise Strike
4. Flight or Slumber or Healing hex your choice
5. Rime Spell (bonus) +(Your Choice Extra Arcana: Arcane Deed: Menacing Swordplay or Riving Strike depending on build)
6. 2 (FCB here) Arcanas of your choice here because the build is essentially complete do whatever you fancy, Hexes, Deeds, Vanilla Arcana.

Regards,
DRS

True Renlar, but as every swashbuckler ability references 'the swashbuckler' and not 'the magus' none of the deeds work and if you honestly think that they printed those with a giant 'ha ha ha these don't do anything' mind set you are being hyper literal, to the utmost. That is RAW worship of an unbelievable, and myopic level.

A more reasonable interpretation lets it works and eagerly awaits for a singe line of errata to render the your argument invalid.

Regards,
DRS

-Relies on Precision damage, which rogues can tell you shuts off in a stiff breeze. It doesn't have a formal definition, but chances are pretty good it shuts off vs

Elementals
invisibility
Oozes
Anyone with a miss chance from blur
Anyone standing in the dark
Fortification
invisibiliy

-Damage doesn't multiply on a crit.

-Despite being billed as a mobile fighter type doesn't have all that much mobility built into it.

- Charmed life and most of its tricks are almost unusable. Parry/riposte is so much better than anything else you're going to need to save your swift action for it.

-The current version cannot effectively wield some very iconic swashbuckler weapons: rapiers, daggers, but can wield morning stars, picks, lances?*, and a few other odd choices.

-After level 5 its a long haul to anything worth sticking around for. Its a dip class.

Shadow Strike (APG) helps negate the precision damage problem, allowing it versus concealment (but not total concealment).

Regards,
DRS

DRS3 wrote:

Yeah almost all Deeds reference 'the swashbuckler' not 'the magus' which some might argue means none of them work. This is obviously the wrong interpretation. I know we all bow at the altar of RAW, but let us not read as if we were mentally deficient rhesus monkeys, because we are not. Use the magus level as the swashbuckler level until they add a single errata line to make it completely RAW legal.

Regards,
DRS

I'd preffer it if you don't say it in an insulting way. The problem is that I play in PFS and I have to follow the rules RAW as written. Not as intended.

This might be obvious enough that we will be able to get away with it, but then again we might not. I could run into GMs that say that I don't get my damage bonus, and I'll have a wasted Arcana choice because of it.

You know what? If a GM at a PFS event says 'no' to it feel free to reference my post if you feel it was insulting. It wasn't intended as such, but I understand written words can't provide inflection clues to make that obvious. I was going for a sense of the ridiculous.

This hyper literal RAW worship gets on my nerves. It's like slashing someone's tires and then when you are arrested you argue innocence on the basis that the knife did the slashing. I believe in that case you are going to be found guilty.

Regards,
DRS

Yeah almost all Deeds reference 'the swashbuckler' not 'the magus' which some might argue means none of them work. This is obviously the wrong interpretation. I know we all bow at the altar of RAW, but let us not read as if we were mentally deficient rhesus monkeys, because we are not. Use the magus level as the swashbuckler level until they add a single errata line to make it completely RAW legal.

Regards,
DRS

Also as a Cha based class Eldritch Heritage is a possibility.

Regards,
DRS

Yeah, I could see most magi spending their 3rd level arcana on Flamboyant, and their 3rd level feat on Extra Arcana: Arcane Deed: Precise Strike. They will have to pick up shadow strike at some point to negate concealment but + your level in damage is going to be really hard to pass up.

Bonus points a lot of those deeds don't switch off based on armor (Evasion probably would), so Heavy Armor Str Magus using Rapier might become interesting. Heck you could even go Intimidating Prowess and Bruising Intellect + Menacing Swordplay as a way to get people shaken during your Spell combat, Spell strike, then finish off with the cast. Even better you could still be a Hexcrafter and get some of those goodies as well.

Almost makes me want to go make a build.

Regards,
DRS

Well this is certainly one way to take some heat off the Slumber Hex.

Regards,
DRS

Just had a thought... What if the whole feat chain has a massive typo and it's actually supposed to be Pommeling Style?

Etymologically, speaking to pummel someone meant to use the pommel of your weapon to bludgeon them. Therefore, It works!

Regards,
DRS

I am the DM, I just have this wonderful foresight as to what questions regarding the new material are going to be thrown my way. For this one I looked at various other class archetypes in areas like Uncanny Dodge, and in every case either both Uncanny Dodge and Imp Uncanny Dodge were removed, or the class didn't have access to two archetypes that just removed the lower ability.

That makes this situation unique and I merely wanted some form of consensus on the matter. Personally I am leaning towards ye olde middle option of 2.

Regards,
DRS

PRD says:

At 1st level, a magus can expend 1 point from his arcane pool as a swift action to grant any weapon he is holding a +1 enhancement bonus for 1 minute. For every four levels beyond 1st, the weapon gains another +1 enhancement bonus, to a maximum of +5 at 17th level. These bonuses can be added to the weapon, stacking with existing weapon enhancement to a maximum of +5. Multiple uses of this ability do not stack with themselves.

Thus you couldn't burn your entire arcane pool in three successive rounds at level 1 to have a +3 weapon in a fight, which means not only would you need to be level 17, but the weapon you are adding Vorpal to would also need to be at least a +1 weapon, otherwise you spend 1 point to make it a +1 and only have +4 left over for enhancements. Hardly an issue at level 17 but, for completeness's sake I thought I'd toss it out there.

Regards,
DRS

The magus archetype in the ACG, replaces spell recall, but not improved spell recall, and as we know that means they do get access to spell recall at 11 as improved spell recall was not replaced by additional features, this situation is similar to the Hexcrafter. Because of this could these archetypes be combined?

A theoretical Eldritch Hexcrafting Scion would then lose all access to spell recall but gain the benefits of both archetypes.

I see three possibilities.

1. It doesn't work they both replace the very exact same class feature. Take your ball and go home.

2. It works but, you get Hex arcana at level 11 since they automatically get Bloodline at level 1 and that cost must be paid first.

3. It works without restriction because the bloodline spell recall replacement kicks in at 11 and the hex arcana one kicks in at 4, because, stuff.

Just curious on opinions on this one.

Regards,
DRS

I think it could be interpreted either way, it just depends on whether or not you consider a touch spell a weapon attack, it is considered an armed attack, for both offense and defense, that is straight PRD stuff there, and could easily count as a second weapon.

I've mixed feelings on it and in my own games I would probably allow situation 1 to work, however, I could see the argument going the other way for more restrictive DMs.

Regards,
DRS

From my reading of those two abilities this works with Spell combat + spell strike, or with spell combat and a spell that doesnt make an attack roll, but NOT with spell combat + touch attack spell without spell strike.

Spell Combat + Touch spell = 2 weapons = ability doesnt work.

Spell Combat with non-touch spell = 1 weapon = ability works

Spell Combat with Spell-Strike = 1 weapon = ability works

That however, is just my reading

Regards,
DRS

Mathwei ap Niall wrote:

Just because your GM doesn't use the options that the game has put out there doesn't make the weakness any less glaring.

Also Feints aren't a build, it's a standard action that requires no investment to use, any combatant can do it at will. The feats and skill points are there simply to make it more efficient.
ANY opponent that a Kensai meets who thinks about it for 2 seconds can destroy that Kensai with no problem if they take these actions, the only difference is the one who doesn't invest in this feat needs 2 rounds to do it instead of one. That's it..

The Feint can be countered by anyone trained in Sense Motive. Further more for a serious combat the Kensai is probably whipping up spells like Mirror Image and/or Displacement as part of his defense.

Plus if the character isn't built for feinting, he's spending his standard action to bluff and he's hoping he'll survive into the next round where he can actually make use of that vulnerability, in the meantime doing NO damage at all. If he repeats this process, he'll be spending half his rounds doing no damage while the kensai destroys him.

True, as with all the magical buffs providing other defenses, which are mitigating factor's of the Kensai's weaknesses. Mathwei is merely pointing out a potential and widely available option that any Kensai worth his salt, will have to account for in a battle situation. You can argue that GMs don't do it, or that the layered defenses of blur and mirror image render that tactic obsolete, but then you are saying, "I'm going to spend significant resources covering up a basic weakness of my class that EVERYONE can exploit."

Furthermore I take offense to the argument that the diminished spellcasting is not a significant drawback. All Magi pump Int to a great degree so unless you are a base race that starts with +4 or more int (not one to my knowledge that most gms would approve) you are probably within two points of any other magus build in what amounts to a large loss in spell casting "legs" so to speak. Furthermore you are going to need at minimum dex and con if you go the dervish route which is icky because you know not having your low level feats sucks, but if you don't go that route you've just added STR to the list of stats you need. If the archetype didn't have diminished spellcasting, I'd say the Kensai was a good, just different feeling magus, with it, I think its weaker than the base class.

Regards,
DRS

P.S. Responding to the whole thread not just the portion 'replied' to.

DRS3 wrote:

Quick aside elemental spell requires you to choose the alternate damage type when you take the feat. Thus to have ultimate flexibility you have to take the thing 3 times, which is un-fun. Elemental based damage is a bear to connect with at times.

I've been pondering this for a while....is it better to get elemental spell as a feat to gain the flexibility of changing the type of damage, or it's better to use a sorcerer bloodline (like marid, etc) or the admixture wizard (any type on the spot)??

Basically, is it better to take a feat or a class level to get the flexibility to change the damage type?

feats are sparse , but class skill delays you, so not sure which is best (BTW: I know we could use rods, but this require an action to get the rod and then you don't have any hand free...so more preparation in combat)

For me its usually, its better not to take the spell and find a spell that gives me more options, as low as the damage is Elemental Touch is an option, but that spell is more about the status effects it causes than the damage, which is why I don't spell strike it. My Magi end up with a smattering of all knowledge skills so usually enough to know whether its worth his time to cast SG/Frost/Frigid etc. With the curse spells added through hexcrafter I usually have more than enough options to take out my foe without having to resort to outright brute force, but having the option to drop someone in your back pocket is also admirable.

Finally, there is the much maligned arcana pool strike, which while never being a rockstar as far as damage is concerned, it does give you flexibility, can be spellstruck, and I have found use for it when being forced to move in a round, by using it in combination with a two-handed spell strike.

Regards,
DRS

The main problem with most Magus archetypes is they give up Spell Recall. While being able to recall spells you've already cast might not seem a big deal it can give you more flexibility in memorizing different spells and can increase the number of spells you can cast during the day.

Pearls of power 1st cost 1k, 500 GP to craft, you can have quite the collection of them. That alone makes spell recall meh. Plus any archetype that gives up plain old spell recall but not improved spell recall gets spell recall at 11th.

Those things combine to make spell recall a solid but, ultimately a gravy on the biscuit ability.

Regards,
DRS

Quick aside elemental spell requires you to choose the alternate damage type when you take the feat. Thus to have ultimate flexibility you have to take the thing 3 times, which is un-fun. Elemental based damage is a bear to connect with at times.

Regards,
DRS

Id kick Magical aptitude to the curb, for spell focus: Illusion, Mostly because there is a feat later on at 5th called Shadow's Gambit which lets you deal damage with the lower end illusions which can be helpful. Its not super impressive but you do get some flexibility with damage type which is nice. Also helps with the color spray at first level for DC purposes. How shadow's gambit interacts with Permanent image is a interesting thing. Imagine being able to preload small images all over your body and then shredding them to nuke badguys all day long whilst still having a full load of spells.

Regards,
DRS