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Mirror Polish. Spend a 1st level slot to do only one of the things Prestidigitation already does. Yay?
It does seem a bit specialized, but I wouldn't assume prestidigitation could make a mirror out of any substantial metal surface area. Cleaning something isn't the same as giving it a mirror-worthy polish.
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The Enlarge Person spell, which the Original Poster clearly doesn't understand, is most useful for the extra attacks it gives from having increased reach, not for the piddling extra damage. Note that Haste is generally considered a great buff spell because it gives one extra attack with the Full Attack action. Enlarge Person can give multiple extra attacks, no Full Attack action required.
This is a common misunderstanding: there's a published Paizo adventure where you fight druids with the Plant (Growth) subdomain swift action Enlarge Person power, yet who lack the tactical smarts to effectively use their primary ability. I.e. the druids only use Enlarge Person to slightly boost their damage and hinder their Armor Class, rather than using it to get extra attacks. If these druids had a better tactical understanding of how to use Enlarge Person they could probably crush the PCs.
Also note that Enlarge Person can increase average damage per hit by +6 HP, not just +1 HP or +3 HP, if it's used intelligently. That's still trivial compared to multiple extra attacks. Note that the +6 HP damage will apply to those multiple extra attacks. Seems like Enlarge Person is a bit overpowered, and perhaps ought to be a higher level spell.
I'm not sure I follow. How does extra reach equal extra attacks?
(The only way I can think of is if you have Combat Reflexes: You threaten many more squares, which increases the chance you'll be able to take more AOOs. But that's pretty situational.)
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The Enlarge Person spell, which the Original Poster clearly doesn't understand, is most useful for the extra attacks it gives from having increased reach, not for the piddling extra damage. Note that Haste is generally considered a great buff spell because it gives one extra attack with the Full Attack action. Enlarge Person can give multiple extra attacks, no Full Attack action required.
This is a common misunderstanding: there's a published Paizo adventure where you fight druids with the Plant (Growth) subdomain swift action Enlarge Person power, yet who lack the tactical smarts to effectively use their primary ability. I.e. the druids only use Enlarge Person to slightly boost their damage and hinder their Armor Class, rather than using it to get extra attacks. If these druids had a better tactical understanding of how to use Enlarge Person they could probably crush the PCs.
Also note that Enlarge Person can increase average damage per hit by +6 HP, not just +1 HP or +3 HP, if it's used intelligently. That's still trivial compared to multiple extra attacks. Note that the +6 HP damage will apply to those multiple extra attacks. Seems like Enlarge Person is a bit overpowered, and perhaps ought to be a higher level spell.
Um... not to burst your bubble, but how does extra reach equal extra attacks?
(The only way I can think of is if you have Combat Reflexes: You threaten many more squares, which increases the chance you'll be able to take more AOOs. But that's pretty situational.)
Even without combat reflexes, more threatened area means more chances for you to actually take your one AoO.
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Useless for the level?
Polar Ray. 1d6/level damage and 1d4 dex drain at a single target.
it's one of my favorite spells as an Arcane Trickster with sneak attack.
it's not 1d6 capped at 10th level, it's 1d6 with no level cap and no saving throw.
So it's a good spell if you're an Arcane Trickster with at least 12 levels of spellcaster.
It's still one of the worst spells for its level for any "pure" wizards or sorcerers. There are better ways of doing lots more damage, save or not.
The Enlarge Person spell, which the Original Poster clearly doesn't understand, is most useful for the extra attacks it gives from having increased reach, not for the piddling extra damage. Note that Haste is generally considered a great buff spell because it gives one extra attack with the Full Attack action. Enlarge Person can give multiple extra attacks, no Full Attack action required.
This is a common misunderstanding: there's a published Paizo adventure where you fight druids with the Plant (Growth) subdomain swift action Enlarge Person power, yet who lack the tactical smarts to effectively use their primary ability. I.e. the druids only use Enlarge Person to slightly boost their damage and hinder their Armor Class, rather than using it to get extra attacks. If these druids had a better tactical understanding of how to use Enlarge Person they could probably crush the PCs.
Also note that Enlarge Person can increase average damage per hit by +6 HP, not just +1 HP or +3 HP, if it's used intelligently. That's still trivial compared to multiple extra attacks. Note that the +6 HP damage will apply to those multiple extra attacks. Seems like Enlarge Person is a bit overpowered, and perhaps ought to be a higher level spell.
Um... not to burst your bubble, but how does extra reach equal extra attacks?
(The only way I can think of is if you have Combat Reflexes: You threaten many more squares, which increases the chance you'll be able to take more AOOs. But that's pretty situational.)
Even without combat reflexes, more threatened area means more chances for you to actually take your one AoO.
I'm actually inclined to agree that on it's own, Enlarge Person is not the best of spells. You really do need something to go with it, whether it be Combat Reflexes or favorable terrain or something similar, to really get the most out of it. I don't know that I would quite call it useless, even on it's own, but it can become that in the wrong circumstances. For a full round casting, it doesn't by itself bring that much to the table.
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Have said it before, will say it again:
1 - allows a save (targeting what is usually the good save)
2 - allows spell resistance
3 - only has a 50% chance of affecting any incorporeal target due to incorporeal rulesAs it stands now, its almost never helpful to cast it, and is a waste of a spell slot.
This spell really needs to be given the force descriptor (to negate item 3 above) to make it at least have a chance of doing what its designed for.
Agreed. You might as well slot a spiritual weapon in your 2nd level spell slot if you're a cleric/oracle - as a force attack it does full damage and incorporeals rarely have high ACs.
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Zone of Truth!!! Worst spell ever.
In the best case scenario, (target fails save) it leaves you exactly where you would have been otherwise; unsure if the target is actually telling you the real truth or finding a way to lie without literally lying or telling you what they think and having it be false. Worst case, they know you are using magic that affects their mind, but are not bound in anyway to tell the truth, again, leaving you exactly where you would be had you not cast a 2nd level spell at all, minus the sense of false security this spell offers.
Abadar's Truthtelling is MUCH better because you (and everyone else around you) absolutely knows what's going on.
Wall of Fire - utterly crap damage, just walk through it and a CLW pot will sort you out.
May just be another thing that just happens to be better for NPCs than PCs. I've seen it directly contribute to a tpk. Sure the damage may not be high but when a party is verging on being knocked out and the only way out of melee is through a wall of fire that 10 or 15 points of damage becomes pretty meaningful.
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School illusion (glamer); Level sorcerer/wizard 2
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S, M (special dust worth 50 gp)
Range touch
Target object touched
Duration permanent (D)
Saving Throw none; Spell Resistance no
This spell makes a lock or other small mechanism seem to be trapped to anyone who can detect traps. You place the spell upon any small mechanism or device, such as a lock, hinge, hasp, cork, cap, or ratchet. Any character able to detect traps, or who uses any spell or device enabling trap detection, is certain a real trap exists. Of course, the effect is illusory and nothing happens if the trap is “sprung”; its primary purpose is to frighten away thieves or make them waste precious time.
If another phantom trap is active within 50 feet when the spell is cast, the casting fails.
50 gp and a second level spell to make a fake trap on a small mechanism. I would not want to use such a spell as a DM or as a player. I can't imagine wanting to cast it as a wizard or someone willing to pay a spellcaster.
Its been a ridiculous oddball core spell since 1e.
I could see a possible use as a DM setting a few of these up so that thieves discover the repeated illusions and start ignoring them, then have a real trap mixed in to hit them, but that is a lot of expense for a truly marginal set up which as a DM you would not want to do as more than a once off thing.
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I struggle to come up with a good use for hallucinatory terrain as well.
School illusion (glamer); Level bard 4, sorcerer/wizard 4
Casting Time 10 minutes
Components V, S, M (a stone, a twig, and a green leaf)
Range long (400 ft. + 40 ft./level)
Area one 30-ft. cube/level (S)
Duration 2 hours/level (D)
Saving Throw Will disbelief (if interacted with); Spell Resistance no
You make natural terrain look, sound, and smell like some other sort of natural terrain. Structures, equipment, and creatures within the area are not hidden or changed in appearance.
Make a swamp look like a forest so people get stuck in the mud by surprise? Make the woods you are hiding in look like an impenetrable swamp or cliff so the horsemen trying to track you give up?
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Wall of Fire - utterly crap damage, just walk through it and a CLW pot will sort you out.
Roy Greenhilt disagrees with you [OOTS - most awesome Wall of Fire ever]. Note that some foes do walk right through it, and that's actually for the best.
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I'm actually inclined to agree that on it's own, Enlarge Person is not the best of spells. You really do need something to go with it, whether it be Combat Reflexes or favorable terrain or something similar, to really get the most out of it. I don't know that I would quite call it useless, even on it's own, but it can become that in the wrong circumstances. For a full round casting, it doesn't by itself bring that much to the table.
It takes a bit of thought to get the most use out of it, but most strength-based combatants will find Enlarge Person at least occasionally useful and sometimes very powerful; the party fighter used it to great effect two sessions ago to hold a 10ft corridor.
I do think the 1 round casting time is unnecessary and a bit much. I also find it a little inconvenient to keep track of all the adjustments, especially on top of rage.
The only downside is a -2 AC...which is insignificant compared to the benefits, and not a huge deal in the first place.
The -2 Dex has a few other downsides, including -1 to Reflex saves, initiative if pre-buffing, skills, and if you're using Combat Reflexes, reduces your AoO by 1. Increased space can also be a mixed blessing.
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Wall of Fire - utterly crap damage, just walk through it and a CLW pot will sort you out.
It's great in combination with Wall of Stone. Have the cleric hold an action until after the wizard casts. Have the wizard cast Wall of Fire in an inward aimed ring around a foe, and then the cleric casts Wall of Stone in a dome over both the foe and the fire.
At level 12 - there's no save, and they take an average of 17 fire damage a round indefinitely until they can break through a 3 inch stone wall. (8 hardness & 45hp) If they're a two-handed fighter they can break out (not for a couple rounds unless they have adamantine) - but good luck to a caster.
And if you do it to a vampire/lich/mummy etc - they take double damage!
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I struggle to come up with a good use for hallucinatory terrain as well.
** spoiler omitted **
Make a swamp look like a forest so people get stuck in the mud by surprise? Make the woods you are hiding in look like an impenetrable swamp or cliff so the horsemen trying to track you give up?
Provide Total cover/concealment that you are able to shoot through.
Make a 300 foot cliff look like firm ground.Make an inhabited village look abandoned and overgrown.
Make a small island look like the surrounding ocean.
It can be incredibly useful, but like all illusions, requires thought.
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Haste (3rd level) - when compared to Expeditious Retreat (1st level)
You're joking.
I'm not asking, I'm telling you. You're joking. It's not funny.
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True Strike (1st level) - possibly useful as an item (like bow or better yet, gloves).Haste (3rd level) - when compared to Expeditious Retreat (1st level)
Seriously? These are two of the best spells of their level.
True Strike ignores concealment, and grants a massive bonus to any attack roll. Including maneuvers, spells, and anything else that is an attack roll.
Haste is the best spell of it's level for the extra attacks. The movement increase is a side effect that can be ignored.
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I'm actually inclined to agree that on it's own, Enlarge Person is not the best of spells. You really do need something to go with it, whether it be Combat Reflexes or favorable terrain or something similar, to really get the most out of it. I don't know that I would quite call it useless, even on it's own, but it can become that in the wrong circumstances. For a full round casting, it doesn't by itself bring that much to the table.It takes a bit of thought to get the most use out of it, but most strength-based combatants will find Enlarge Person at least occasionally useful and sometimes very powerful; the party fighter used it to great effect two sessions ago to hold a 10ft corridor.
I do think the 1 round casting time is unnecessary and a bit much. I also find it a little inconvenient to keep track of all the adjustments, especially on top of rage.
The only downside is a -2 AC...which is insignificant compared to the benefits, and not a huge deal in the first place.The -2 Dex has a few other downsides, including -1 to Reflex saves, initiative if pre-buffing, skills, and if you're using Combat Reflexes, reduces your AoO by 1. Increased space can also be a mixed blessing.
Honestly, the full round casting time is the only part that really bugs me. Cut it down to a standard action and you get solid results for what you spent. With a full round casting time though, it often becomes more of a headache than it's worth. The caster is basically pinned down that entire round, the recipient gets some decent bonuses, but calculating all the new numbers on the fly can be difficult and annoying, and there are some real downsides to the spell as well that recipient has to be prepared to deal with. I wouldn't quite call it entirely useless, but it's definitely one that if you're reading and implementing it properly, can lose it's luster real fast if you're using it on a routine basis. It's much better as an occasional casting than a routine one.
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Honestly, the full round casting time is the only part that really bugs me. Cut it down to a standard action and you get solid results for what you spent. With a full round casting time though, it often becomes more of a headache than it's worth. The caster is basically pinned down that entire round, the recipient gets some decent bonuses, but calculating all the new numbers on the fly can be difficult and annoying, and there are some real downsides to the spell as well that recipient has to be prepared to deal with. I wouldn't quite call it entirely useless, but it's definitely one that if you're reading and implementing it properly, can lose it's luster real fast if you're using it on a routine basis. It's much better as an occasional casting than a...I'm actually inclined to agree that on it's own, Enlarge Person is not the best of spells. You really do need something to go with it, whether it be Combat Reflexes or favorable terrain or something similar, to really get the most out of it. I don't know that I would quite call it useless, even on it's own, but it can become that in the wrong circumstances. For a full round casting, it doesn't by itself bring that much to the table.It takes a bit of thought to get the most use out of it, but most strength-based combatants will find Enlarge Person at least occasionally useful and sometimes very powerful; the party fighter used it to great effect two sessions ago to hold a 10ft corridor.
I do think the 1 round casting time is unnecessary and a bit much. I also find it a little inconvenient to keep track of all the adjustments, especially on top of rage.
The only downside is a -2 AC...which is insignificant compared to the benefits, and not a huge deal in the first place.The -2 Dex has a few other downsides, including -1 to Reflex saves, initiative if pre-buffing, skills, and if you're using Combat Reflexes, reduces your AoO by 1. Increased space can also be a mixed blessing.
That's why Growth Subdomain is so awesome.
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An inhabited village probably shouldn’t count as “natural terrain”, and “Structures, equipment, and creatures within the area are not hidden or changed in appearance.” But a small enough village could be surrounded by 30’ high bluffs to conceal it.
Make an inhabited village look abandoned and overgrown.
The buildings wouldn't, but dirt roads and fields would. Having 30 year trees blocking the streets and seemingly abandoned buildings would go a long way.
I struggle to come up with a good use for hallucinatory terrain as well.
** spoiler omitted **
Make a swamp look like a forest so people get stuck in the mud by surprise? Make the woods you are hiding in look like an impenetrable swamp or cliff so the horsemen trying to track you give up?
Yes, it's one of those spells where you could find a couple great uses - *IF* it was lower level, say 2nd. It's a Legacy spell, a hold over from early days.
The Statue spell is another- I could think of some fun uses- but it's 7th level. Huh? Maybe it should be 5th or even 4th?
Repulsion sounds good until you realize that Will negates and so does SR. And thus a 6th level slot is useless.
Least taken spells (Could be useful, but rarely) include: Erase, Ventriloquism, Shatter, & Illusory wall (4th level- really???).
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Illusory wall (4th level- really???).
I think it's because it's permanent. It's totally worthless as a combat spell. Silent image can do the same thing (though requires concentration). But it's pretty sweet as a 7th level wizard to make your stronghold into a permanent illusionary maze which only you can see through. It'd just take a week or two of castings to do it justice. (Think of the traps/ambushes of anyone foolish enough to invade!)
Haste (3rd level) - when compared to Expeditious Retreat (1st level)
I ran a search for the original context of that claim - it's based on the idea that Expeditious Retreat speeds you up as much or more and is a first level spell. (Which somewhat misses the point that ER only speeds up the caster, while Haste can double the damage output of a Level 5 party.)
I struggle to come up with a good use for hallucinatory terrain as well.It’s a glamor, which means it can create the illusion of absence, you can place multiple features (most figments creates an illusion of only one object, creature or force) and it lasts a long time. It’s a great spell for setting up ambushes or hidey-holes.
Place hallucinatory crevasses to screw up enemy movement, hallucinatory trees to hide behind, hallucinatory hills to conceal your campsite, and hallucinatory streams or sulphur vents to throw off tracking by scent. Turn wide-open underground caverns into cave tunnel mazes that those in the know can see right through. Make lava look like a lake, or vice versa.
Like most illusion spells, it’s quite powerful if you use it in a way that amuses or impresses your GM.
"Structures, equipment, and creatures within the area are not hidden or changed in appearance."
It specifically can not be used to hide creatures.
Least taken spells (Could be useful, but rarely) include: Erase, Ventriloquism, Shatter, & Illusory wall (4th level- really???).
Illusory wall I've used.
In a dungeon we knew an illithid's strike team was trying to break into a warded room and had left to get more resources after their last failed attempt to break in. We knew they'd return to try for the locked away items of power soon but not when. I set up an illusory wall and we camped out behind it with the whole party focusing until they could see through it. When our watch guy silently alerted us the team had returned we got a hugely successful ambush on them. Focus fire with paladin smites and a lightning bolt allowed us to take out the illithid before it could mind blast us into mental paste. Its minions were then easy to mop up.
Shatter got used in my past campaign by a bunch of quicklings and the wizard used it on a bad guy's weapon once or twice.
Ventriloquism I've only seen used through ghost sound in 4e as an at will power for comedy purposes (having dead opponents agree with me when the party is discussing what to do).
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Context people - context!
Haste as compared to Expeditious Retreat.
To use Haste as anything other than an offensive party buff is useless when compared to Expeditious Retreat. For running away, Expeditious Retreat is twice the spell at 1/3 the level.
The problem with you saying that is that everyone uses it as a combat buff. It's an incredibly useful spell, and this is a thread for useless spells, spells that don't have a context for usefulness.
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Context people - context!
Haste as compared to Expeditious Retreat.
To use Haste as anything other than an offensive party buff is useless when compared to Expeditious Retreat. For running away, Expeditious Retreat is twice the spell at 1/3 the level.
For purposes of running away, expeditious retreat is lower level and lasts 1 minute/level instead of 1 round/level. However, expeditious retreat is only a personal spell that adds 30 feet to your land movement. Haste adds 30 feet to all the movement types of up to 1 creature/caster level and gives them a +1 dodge bonus to AC and reflex saves (useful when running away) as well.
Getting the whole party to successfully run away does not seem useless in comparison to getting one caster to run away.
Context people - context!
Haste as compared to Expeditious Retreat.
To use Haste as anything other than an offensive party buff is useless when compared to Expeditious Retreat. For running away, Expeditious Retreat is twice the spell at 1/3 the level.
ER can be cast on you & you alone. So it's 1/4 the spell for just running away.
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Magda uses Truestrike frequently. Usually the Swift Action version, but sometimes the Standard Action version. There's no better way to ensure that your first attack lands. Especially good combined with a trip. Note that Magda uses reach tactics, so it's easier to fit in a Standard Action spell and still attack, which makes Truestrike a lot more useful.
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But the context is you are misusing the spell. Saying Haste is useless when compared to ER because ER lets your run away faster and for longer is like saying Fly is useless for getting down a cliff because feather fall is better at descending. While technically true, it misses the entire point of the spell.
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Instant Armor is so close to being cool on many levels, but too many stipulations make it garbage. 1 Min/Level. It's a Force Armor, but it replaces your existing armor, and if you are a Cleric that's likely to cast this, that's probably an overall downgrade most of the time. Needs to either be 10 Mins/1 Hr per level or just a straight up Force Armor Bonus to AC that increases by level (+5 from 1st-5th, +6 from 6th-8th, etc. . .)
Instant armor is best for when you're not wearing armor and need it suddenly. For instance, when you're sleeping and camp is attacked in the night. Or when you're on a ship or in a situation where you need to make swim or climb checks and a monster pops up on the other side.
True Strike - I've never seen it used usefully except in the most staged of setups. I even know of one weekly 3.5 campaign that lasted about five years where, according to the GM, the spell was never used by anyone; PC or NPC/Monster. Just say'n - YMMV of course.
For most magic users I would probably never bother with this spell, but for a Magus. Invaluable IMO. So I would say this is definitely not worthy of this list.
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True Strike - I've never seen it used usefully except in the most staged of setups. I even know of one weekly 3.5 campaign that lasted about five years where, according to the GM, the spell was never used by anyone; PC or NPC/Monster. Just say'n - YMMV of course.For most magic users I would probably never bother with this spell, but for a Magus. Invaluable IMO. So I would say this is definitely not worthy of this list.
Or any other gish for that matter. Eldrich Knight/Dragon Disciple etc.
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Mirror Polish. Spend a 1st level slot to do only one of the things Prestidigitation already does. Yay?
Damn. Beat me to it.
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Mirror Polish. Spend a 1st level slot to do only one of the things Prestidigitation already does. Yay?Damn. Beat me to it.
Prestidigitation is one hour, not permanent like Mirror Polish. Plus it's debatable Prestidigitation can even provide such a level of reflection...
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Prestidigitation is one hour, not permanent like Mirror Polish. Plus it's debatable Prestidigitation can even provide such a level of reflection...
Actually, making something dirty or clean by prestidigitation is pretty much permanent (pending getting cleaned up or dirtied again). But I agree that cleaning isn't the same as putting a mirror shine on a bit of metal.
Mirror Polish is probably still too specialized to really be a useful spell for most adventuring characters, though.