Most worthless spells


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

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The thread is about worthless spells though, not worthless ability.

Stinking cloud also has better DC, which equates to 10 + 3 (spell level) + dependent ability to cast modifier + any feat the character may have with a 100+ feet range.

With a 16 casting dependent mental score, the DC would be 16.

Weedwhip's poison DC equates to 12 + con modifer +1 (from the con +2 buff from spell)

You would need CON 16 to get to DC 16.

You'll need to be almost MAD (only charisma to dump) to boost this attack's DC, to hit, and have a decent AC while being able to cast.


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Mirage Wolf wrote:
Weedwhip's poison DC equates to 12 + con modifer +1 (from the con +2 buff from spell)

The Polymorph subschool would probably disagree.

Quote:
The DC for any of these abilities equals your DC for the polymorph spell used to change you into that form.

Granted, that line came immediately after a string of features including "burrow speed" that don't have DCs, but I think poison would use the spell's DC.


Didn't know that line, thanks for the correction.

This seems to be a buff to plant shape, at the same time makes the vermin shape worse. Many vermin have higher DC with poison DC ranged around 17~19, now it drops considerably.


Plus you can dump strength and grab an agile amulet of mighty fists. All you'd really need is Dex/Con/Wis. And with Ability Focus your poison DC is 17+Wis.


Usual Suspect wrote:
I really dislike Enlarge. Why? Because you're trading a -2 to your AC and a -1 to reflex saves for a paltry +1 to damage and a little extra carrying capacity.

Enlarge saved my group from a TPK just last Sunday. Of the 6 of us, 4 were asleep from Drow poison in the first 2-3 rounds. My Ranger, plus the party's Oracle of Life (Spirit Guide) were the only ones standing against 5 Drow. The Oracle (invisible, thanks to a ring) was bonded to a spirit of Battle and had Enlarge Person, so she hit me with it while I was facing off the entire enemy force in melee. My reach and damage increase allowed me to kill 3 of the Drow in 2 rounds (two from AoOs... one who tried to get around me to flank, another who tried to get past me to get the Oracle who was channeling healing every round). The AC penalty meant nothing because they were hitting me every round anyway.

What makes Enlarge so awesome is the offensive power - reach plus damage make it amazing for the warrior types, in many situations.

As for useless spells ...

Chain of Perdition.
This looks good in the books, but I've seen 2 characters try to use it and it never worked. The range is short, so the caster has to be near enough to be attacked. It usually takes a full round to use it (move plus attack) unless the enemy is dumb enough to stay close to it (unlikely). Its attacks takes up standard actions which would be better used by casting other spells. It doesn't threaten squares. It's near useless against anything with full BAB, or huge size.


Quark Blast wrote:
True Strike - I've never seen it used usefully except in the most staged of setups. I even know of one weekly 3.5 campaign that lasted about five years where, according to the GM, the spell was never used by anyone; PC or NPC/Monster. Just say'n - YMMV of course.

Made a Gish (Ranger/Sorcerer/Eldritch Knight) who used True Strike all the time with his Glaive.

Round 1 = True Strike + move to ideal attack-of-opportunity position (glaive is a reach weapon). Any enemy who knows what I just did tends to keep away, turning it into a battlefield control result. Other enemies would attack anyway and suffer for it.
Round 2 = if no AoO occurred, use Power Attack + Fighting Defensively.

Getting a sure hit with increased damage and +3 AC boost made it worthwhile more often than not. It ignored concealment, too, which is a bonus.

When he got Quicken Spell it was even better.


Growth gives increased damage range to weapons, so, booyah!


Malignor wrote:

As for useless spells ...

Chain of Perdition.
This looks good in the books, but I've seen 2 characters try to use it and it never worked. The range is short, so the caster has to be near enough to be attacked. It usually takes a full round to use it (move plus attack) unless the enemy is dumb enough to stay close to it (unlikely). Its attacks takes up standard actions which would be better used by casting other spells. It doesn't threaten squares. It's near useless against anything with full BAB, or huge size.

Chain of Perdition forgot to mention that the chain attacks without using the caster's standard actions. This was clarified by the designer of the spell in Chain of Perdition clarification.

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