Most worthless spells


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

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Rynjin wrote:
Miri Pindles wrote:
Rynjin wrote:
thegreenteagamer wrote:
Rynjin, your GM must be a extremely harsh, 'cause I find Silent Image to be the most-used first level spell in the game when taken over the course of a character. It's just so versatile it's ridiculous.

I've used Minor Image to some effect (turning myself invisible and sending "myself" ahead in the hallway), but that's about the extent of it.

Silent Image especially gets screwed because, well...it's silent. About the best thing you can do is make a wall or something with it, and even then, most of the time even the hired goons are going to be like "Why is there a wall here?"

Making a wall is super-useful!

Say you're fighting a bunch of ranged mooks. Cast silent image, but flavor it to appear like you're casting a spell that uses the surrounding earth to make a wall. So yeah, the mooks know you cast a spell, but until they get close enough to touch or shoot through the wall, they think you used a spell that actually makes a wall and will act accordingly (try to move around, most likely, giving your party time to plan).

Which delays them for, at best, one of the mooks' turns when he runs up, tries to smash the wall, and hits thin air.

The jig is up, mates!

Since Wall of Stone is so trivial to smash through, except at very low levels when you're fighting Warrior 2's or something like that nobody's going to take the time to move around the wall. They're going to barrel right through it.

Firstly, since Silent Image is a 1st level spell, youre probably going to be using it to beat exactly the kind of low level mooks that *cant* smash through a wall of stone in a single round

Secondly, a good number of bandits arent going to think "BIG WALL HULK SMASH", especially not the archers.

Thirdly, even if you are fighting high level hulk bandits and using Silent Image, you dont have to make it a wall of stone. Make it look like a wall of Admantium, or a wall of force, or a wall of spinning blades and chains that look nasty to get near, or a wall of silently screaming souls of the damned floating around their corpses piled up. The point of illusions is being creative. If you want to block off a path you dont make a smooth wall appear where they know one isnt, you make it look like the cieling is collapsing and piling up rubble so they stand back to wait for it to "end". And if your DM still has the enemy try and hulk smash his way through any of those, remind him thats how bandits in his campaign act when you *actually* cast wall of force or blades or flames.


I've never been able to justify preparing river sight at the start of the day xD

Silver Crusade

Chromantic Durgon <3 wrote:
I've never been able to justify preparing river sight at the start of the day xD

What if you're not playing in the middle of the desert though?


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber

Were do we stand on spells that COULD be useful if they didn't cause paradoxes like Battlemind Link?

Silver Crusade

the Lorax wrote:
Were do we stand on spells that COULD be useful if they didn't cause paradoxes like Battlemind Link?

What's the paradox?


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber

Battlemind Link:

School divination [mind-affecting]; Level inquisitor 4, sorcerer/wizard 6

Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S
Range personal and close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Target you and 1 ally
Duration 1 minute/level
Saving Throw Will negates (harmless); Spell Resistance yes (harmless)

You fuse your thoughts with an ally's, allowing the two of you to fight in tandem, perfectly coordinated. You and the ally each roll initiative in combat and use the higher die result before adding modifiers. This has three effects.

Melee: If you both make melee attacks against the same creature, you both make attack rolls and both use the higher of the two dice for your attack rolls (plus bonuses).

Ranged: If you both make ranged attacks against the same creature, you both make attack rolls and both use the higher of the two dice for your attack roll (plus bonuses).

Spell: If you both cast spells and target the same area or same creature, affected creatures take a –2 penalty on their saving throw against the spells.

You and the target lose these benefits if you cannot see each other or if you or the target is unconscious or helpless.

OK, you (Wizard A) cast this on your buddy (Cleric B).

Having not dumped Dex, and added feats/traits, Wizard A has a +6 Initiative. Wizard A rolls a 9 for initiative

Having nothing of the sort, Cleric B as a +0. Cleric B rolls a 19 for initiative.

Bad Guy C rolls as normal, his modified roll is a 20.

Wizard A gets to use Cleric B's roll and his own mod. - 25 Initiative.
Cleric B gets to use Cleric B's roll and his own mod. - 19 Initiative.

Wizard A and Cleric B plan to cast spells at Bad Guy C.
Wizard A Hits Bad Guy C with a Disentigrate, Bad Guy C fails his save by 1, due to the penalty and is reduced to fine dust, what does Cleric B do now?

What happens if Bad Guy B survives the attack and teleports away?
Or puts Cleric B in a Maze spell? What initiative does Wizard A go in next round then?

What if Lacky D Counterspells Cleric B's attack spell or disrupts it with a melee attack?

Because there is room for actions between the Wizard A and Cleric B, you can create situations where the tandem activity becomes invalid.

What is the time frame in which you must both do the Attack or Spell?
Once ever?
In the same Round?
Does the faster need to hold his action to go at the same time as the slower?

Silver Crusade

AH, I see.

I think the intention of the spell was for you and your ally to go off of the same initiative, but adding different modifiers makes that a bit wonky.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber

Oh it's not unfixable, but I think that's a part of this thread - some of these spells COULD have been useful but just arn't as written.

Silver Crusade

Eh, Battlemind Link isn't even really that much of a problem. Just have the character with the higher initiative delay for the other and go at the same time. Since you use the same roll it's not that much of a wait.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber

You need a little more then that - the two characters should have their actions resolve at the same time to minimize weird timing issues if nothing else with Contingency.

My solution is:

Initiative = High Roll + Low Bonus.
Both Characters announce actions and they resolve at the same time.

Yes they could end up with overkill.

Honestly its a really neat sounding spell, that is awful fiddly and terribly worded.

There's other ways to fix the spell (such as just flat out giving 1 re-roll per round to each character and not limiting who the characters attack. Allow each other to use both characters Teamwork feats as an example off the top of my head.)


I would average their initiative modifiers and have them go at the same time using the best of their two rolls. Not great but I think it is the easiest fix.


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My entry for "most worthless spell" is Contact Other Plane.

First off, though this is a problem more specific to my group than the game as a whole, these prediction spells in general are too unstable for reliable use. You never know if you got it right, need to have solid yes/no problems, and count on your GM's ability to tell the future rather than your own, even though often enough foreshadowing occurs for you to do it yourself sans magic.

That being said, with this spell there is a solid chance of removing you from combat for weeks at a time (spell-less wizard is more a liability than anything else) or that you are being intentionally lied to by whatever you are looking for, or they don't know about your inquiry, or even both. Hope you have months of downtime if you want to do this (and keep playing with everyone).


Paradozen wrote:

My entry for "most worthless spell" is Contact Other Plane.

First off, though this is a problem more specific to my group than the game as a whole, these prediction spells in general are too unstable for reliable use. You never know if you got it right, need to have solid yes/no problems, and count on your GM's ability to tell the future rather than your own, even though often enough foreshadowing occurs for you to do it yourself sans magic.

That being said, with this spell there is a solid chance of removing you from combat for weeks at a time (spell-less wizard is more a liability than anything else) or that you are being intentionally lied to by whatever you are looking for, or they don't know about your inquiry, or even both. Hope you have months of downtime if you want to do this (and keep playing with everyone).

Agreed and commune is better.


"Devil's Advocate" wrote:


Instant Armor is so close to being cool on many levels, but too many stipulations make it garbage. 1 Min/Level. It's a Force Armor, but it replaces your existing armor, and if you are a Cleric that's likely to cast this, that's probably an overall downgrade most of the time. Needs to either be 10 Mins/1 Hr per level or just a straight up Force Armor Bonus to AC that increases by level (+5 from 1st-5th, +6 from 6th-8th, etc. . .)

Don't forget it disables magic items and will leave you barefoot. It might have been useful in a situation where armor is forbidden, but Disguise Self or Glamored armor is the better option there, especially with the terrible duration.


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Death Candle

Such a cool idea for a spell that just doesn't work.

It is essentially Summon Monster 2, except that it only summons a Small Fire Elemental, can only summon it adjacent to you, and requires touching an already dying creature in order to cast it. The dying creature gets a Fort save. If it makes it, no fire elemental for you.

So why would anyone pick this over Summon Monster 2?


Lemartes wrote:
Paradozen wrote:

My entry for "most worthless spell" is Contact Other Plane.

First off, though this is a problem more specific to my group than the game as a whole, these prediction spells in general are too unstable for reliable use. You never know if you got it right, need to have solid yes/no problems, and count on your GM's ability to tell the future rather than your own, even though often enough foreshadowing occurs for you to do it yourself sans magic.

That being said, with this spell there is a solid chance of removing you from combat for weeks at a time (spell-less wizard is more a liability than anything else) or that you are being intentionally lied to by whatever you are looking for, or they don't know about your inquiry, or even both. Hope you have months of downtime if you want to do this (and keep playing with everyone).

Agreed and commune is better.

Commune can be pretty finicky depending on the DM. One DM I gamed with was more lenient with quick answers such as.

'What is our major foe's area of training?"

'Arcane'

This is fairly good info for just one word, it allows you to have some idea what to expect, esp if you have your own wizard. Another DM was pretty much going the "Yes/No' route so little info was gained.


deuxhero wrote:
"Devil's Advocate" wrote:


Instant Armor is so close to being cool on many levels, but too many stipulations make it garbage. 1 Min/Level. It's a Force Armor, but it replaces your existing armor, and if you are a Cleric that's likely to cast this, that's probably an overall downgrade most of the time. Needs to either be 10 Mins/1 Hr per level or just a straight up Force Armor Bonus to AC that increases by level (+5 from 1st-5th, +6 from 6th-8th, etc. . .)
Don't forget it disables magic items and will leave you barefoot. It might have been useful in a situation where armor is forbidden, but Disguise Self or Glamored armor is the better option there, especially with the terrible duration.

I was a big fan of Instant Armor with my paladin for roleplaying if nothing else. I got REALLY sick of getting attacked in the middle of the night without my heavy armor. He used to have Chain Shirt pajamas... but that's all kinds of goofy as well.

I never saw Instant armor as decent disguise or subtlety... I saw it a way around the XXXX rounds to don your armor stipulation. Not as good as actually wearing your main armor... but definitely a workable backup.


In my mind there are two difinitions of "worthless spell"; either a spell that doesn't work as intended due to incompotent writing or spells that work, but are much more aweful than most other spells of that level. Here are a few of mine most disliked spells.

Alchemist with Breath of Life: worthless because it takes at least a move action then a full round action to apply, but only works in the fist round.

Sunder Breaker: How often do you get sundered? Less than once per campaign for me. Then it'll do a little damage in return.

Desperate Weapon: Makes an improvized weapon. If I'm desperate for a weapon, Icicle Dagger is better or just pick up a random item and hit them without burning a spell.

Detect Charm: Does what a cantrip can do, but at higher level and only detects 1/2 of one school of magic. It can detect charms being cast, if you make two skill checks, one of which you probably arent going to have ranks in.

Liughtning Bolt: Fireball isn't even optimal, but with some feats and metamagic it can be pretty decent. Compaired to that, lightning bolt sucks, with an extremely crappy area of effect and much shorter range. I only ever use it when I'm GMing, using a wizard or sorcerer, and am trying to not hurt the players too much. Even my most incompotent players don't touch this stinker.


Most blasting spells are questionable at best.. but I used to use Lightning bolt quite a bit. Fireball was good if I needed that wider radius... Lightning bolt was better if they were farther apart, but in more of line OR if there are allies scattered around the killing field.

I do see them as doing two differnet things with similar results and one vs. the other doesn't stack up too well.

Besides, I've seen a lot more fire resistant people and things then I have electricity... I personally still prefer the traditional fireball... but the bolt is usually in my arsenal somewhere


Quote:
Alchemist with Breath of Life: worthless because it takes at least a move action then a full round action to apply, but only works in the fist round.

This might work ok with a tumor familiar and the familiar's Deliver Touch Spells ability.


phantom1592 wrote:
deuxhero wrote:
"Devil's Advocate" wrote:
Instant Armor is so close to being cool on many levels, but too many stipulations make it garbage. 1 Min/Level. It's a Force Armor, but it replaces your existing armor, and if you are a Cleric that's likely to cast this, that's probably an overall downgrade most of the time. Needs to either be 10 Mins/1 Hr per level or just a straight up Force Armor Bonus to AC that increases by level (+5 from 1st-5th, +6 from 6th-8th, etc. . .)
Don't forget it disables magic items and will leave you barefoot. It might have been useful in a situation where armor is forbidden, but Disguise Self or Glamored armor is the better option there, especially with the terrible duration.

I was a big fan of Instant Armor with my paladin for roleplaying if nothing else. I got REALLY sick of getting attacked in the middle of the night without my heavy armor. He used to have Chain Shirt pajamas... but that's all kinds of goofy as well.

I never saw Instant armor as decent disguise or subtlety... I saw it a way around the XXXX rounds to don your armor stipulation. Not as good as actually wearing your main armor... but definitely a workable backup.

Instant Armor is: cleric/oracle 2, paladin 2

Ice Armor is: cleric/oracle 1, druid 1
it takes a minute to cast so does not help there, but at 1 hour/level it outlasts the other's 1 monute/level. And the breastplate is AC +6, ACP -4, 30#, 20' move. [Same AC, ACP 1 better, 10# lighter], but it gains no bonus plus for high level casting.

Swift Girding is: magus 1, paladin 1, sorcerer/ wizard 1
It lets you put your own armor with a standard action spell, as well as letting others don theirs at the same time. I think this totally outclasses the Instant Armor spell, as long as you are not a paladin.

/cevah


Devilkiller wrote:
Speak with Bread might be a joke spell, but there's a 2nd level Ranger spell in the APG called Allfood which makes an object of up to 5lbs per level edible (or a collection of similar objects like a pile of rocks). That's not useless, but it could obviously lead to a lot of silly antics.

I had a Gm who was a hard ass about mundain survival stuff (he'd audit our weight limits from time to time). When we swam through a river he ruled that water got into our bag of holding and ruined all the food. We had to survive off of Allfood for two or three weeks. He was hoping that we'd have to make a bunch of survival rolls and take some starvation damage, or buy food from some crazy witch for hundreds of gold each.


Cevah wrote:
phantom1592 wrote:
deuxhero wrote:
"Devil's Advocate" wrote:
Instant Armor is so close to being cool on many levels, but too many stipulations make it garbage. 1 Min/Level. It's a Force Armor, but it replaces your existing armor, and if you are a Cleric that's likely to cast this, that's probably an overall downgrade most of the time. Needs to either be 10 Mins/1 Hr per level or just a straight up Force Armor Bonus to AC that increases by level (+5 from 1st-5th, +6 from 6th-8th, etc. . .)
Don't forget it disables magic items and will leave you barefoot. It might have been useful in a situation where armor is forbidden, but Disguise Self or Glamored armor is the better option there, especially with the terrible duration.

I was a big fan of Instant Armor with my paladin for roleplaying if nothing else. I got REALLY sick of getting attacked in the middle of the night without my heavy armor. He used to have Chain Shirt pajamas... but that's all kinds of goofy as well.

I never saw Instant armor as decent disguise or subtlety... I saw it a way around the XXXX rounds to don your armor stipulation. Not as good as actually wearing your main armor... but definitely a workable backup.

Instant Armor is: cleric/oracle 2, paladin 2

Ice Armor is: cleric/oracle 1, druid 1
it takes a minute to cast so does not help there, but at 1 hour/level it outlasts the other's 1 monute/level. And the breastplate is AC +6, ACP -4, 30#, 20' move. [Same AC, ACP 1 better, 10# lighter], but it gains no bonus plus for high level casting.

Swift Girding is: magus 1, paladin 1, sorcerer/ wizard 1
It lets you put your own armor with a standard action spell, as well as letting others don theirs at the same time. I think this totally outclasses the Instant Armor spell,...

Yeah, Swift Girding looks better for sure... but Ice Armor loses hard with that casting time. 1 minute per level isn't that bad when you consider how short fights actually last. The 'instant' is the key. You wake up, cast your spell... have a decent AC. Once the immediate threat is over... put on your regular armor. It's a quick bandaid in case of ambush.

Perhaps it's situational... but I played a Paladin in Kingmaker, so there were many MANY times that the diplomatic king wouldn't be wearing armor in his own bedroom or sitting on his throne overseeing court, only to have to deal with assassins. Instant Armor worked great (and come to think of it, he wouldn't have had his regular armor around for Swift Girding either... though that's still better for sleeping in the wild...)

It may fall apart for clerics and such, but Paladins don't get 2nd level spells until that armor lasts at least 5 minutes or 50 rounds... which should be plenty of time for that bandaid to work. Ice Armor looks like it's more intended for people who HAVE no real armor and look for an all day fix. Like Druids or mage armor, but that fire penalty is just nasty... Good for a first level spell I guess... but not if those spells don't show up till 4th-9th level...


phantom1592 wrote:

Most blasting spells are questionable at best.. but I used to use Lightning bolt quite a bit. Fireball was good if I needed that wider radius... Lightning bolt was better if they were farther apart, but in more of line OR if there are allies scattered around the killing field.

I do see them as doing two differnet things with similar results and one vs. the other doesn't stack up too well.

Besides, I've seen a lot more fire resistant people and things then I have electricity... I personally still prefer the traditional fireball... but the bolt is usually in my arsenal somewhere

Yea, quite the change from 1st/2nd edition where Fireball! Lightning Bolt! Magic Missile! were the staple wizard spells. Now creatures have class levels and magic items that make their saves so high that you might as well not bother.

Silver Crusade

Lightning bolt is still okay for Witches as they get so few blasts but that one.

It's also an energy type which is seldom resisted by undead, the Achilles heel of Witches.

It is not a great spell, but it does its job when applied correctly and is situationally very useful. Witches also often pump their Int even more than most casters so their DCs are better. I can see why people don't like it, but it doesn't really deserve to be on the most worthless list, it isn't totally hopeless like Silk to Steel.


Blackbot wrote:
My group completly ignored Summon Monster I-III because it never saw the summoned monster as anything but space wasters. Their attitude might change a bit now - the druid summoned a grizzly bear with Summon Nature's Ally IV and it helped them a great deal.

Flankers, trap disarmers, restriction of enemy movement, stirges, tremor sense.

Monster Summoning does so much more than just deal damage.


I've used Instant armour on an Oracle/Vigilante. The armour was part enough of their (vigilante) identity that it didn't feel right saying "I change identities in 2 rounds" while still being unarmoured.


Doomed Hero wrote:

Death Candle

Such a cool idea for a spell that just doesn't work.

It is essentially Summon Monster 2, except that it only summons a Small Fire Elemental, can only summon it adjacent to you, and requires touching an already dying creature in order to cast it. The dying creature gets a Fort save. If it makes it, no fire elemental for you.

So why would anyone pick this over Summon Monster 2?

As a 1st level spell, it is decent. But only Anti-Pal gets it as a 1st and they have few spells/day.

It does have a faster casting time, but that Fort save though.

Why would Ifrit develop/learn such a weak spell?


Tears-to-Wine and Enhance Water are quite thematic and fun, especially for a follower of Caiden, but they aren't really as useful as create water or purify food and water, which are both at will cantrips compared to Tears-to-wine being a lv 1 or 2 spell or a level 1 Enhance Water.

Silver Crusade

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Enhance Water is, pardon the pun, a watered down version of PFaW, but Tears-to-Wine gives some nice bonuses.


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ChaiGuy wrote:
Tears-to-Wine and Enhance Water are quite thematic and fun, especially for a follower of Caiden, but they aren't really as useful as create water or purify food and water, which are both at will cantrips compared to Tears-to-wine being a lv 1 or 2 spell or a level 1 Enhance Water.

LOL, you don't use Tears to Wine to not die of thirst, you use it for a +2/5/10 bonus on Perception, Sense Motive, Spellcraft, and all Knowledge skills that lasts for 10 min/level.


@ Rysky and Pseudonym: I somehow missed the bonus to skills, not that bad or at least not as bad as I had thought. =)


If you are paranoid about being poisoned, both spells are invaluable for safety reasons. Tears to Wine is particularly wonderful for it's enhancements. In addition, alcohol is a fairly useful tool in variety of situations, even if hindered by the fact that all the drinks made by either spell are not particularly pure.

Silver Crusade

Plausible Pseudonym wrote:
ChaiGuy wrote:
Tears-to-Wine and Enhance Water are quite thematic and fun, especially for a follower of Caiden, but they aren't really as useful as create water or purify food and water, which are both at will cantrips compared to Tears-to-wine being a lv 1 or 2 spell or a level 1 Enhance Water.
LOL, you don't use Tears to Wine to not die of thirst, you use it for a +2/5/10 bonus on Perception, Sense Motive, Spellcraft, and all Knowledge skills that lasts for 10 min/level.

It affects a body of liquid too, so there is no real limit on number of people it benefits, certainly the whole party. If you are using research rules from Mummy's Mask or Intrigue your Bard or Investigator can cast it on the party and speedread the library.

It's a good spell, it has a couple of uses, it has flavour in more ways than one, it's only first level and it is exactly the sort of thing I'd like to boost the party when my caster has an abundance of 1st level slots. At high levels that can mean +10 to everyone's Perception for a couple of hours, for the price of a 1st slot. Yes please, keeping the party alive is good. And free booze.


Garbage-Tier Waifu wrote:
If you are paranoid about being poisoned, both spells are invaluable for safety reasons. Tears to Wine is particularly wonderful for it's enhancements. In addition, alcohol is a fairly useful tool in variety of situations, even if hindered by the fact that all the drinks made by either spell are not particularly pure.

I'm sure poison is something that can be worth worrying about, but purify food and drink (a cantrip) can take care of that. As a tool, I'm sure a creative GM can make it worth the while.


Another worthless spell for most players is Antimagic Field. It is can only be cast by classes which rely heavily on magic for defense, is centered on you (shutting down most of your defenses), and only negatively effects things which you can stay within 10' of. Considering almost everything worth effecting with this has flight available by the time you can cast it, you basically devolve combat into a snowball fight.

Of course if you are an arcane archer, use selective spell, don't mind your familiar/animal companion quite plausibly dying, are a dragon who can murder everything without magic, or give it to a grappler friend via a spell storing Ioun Stone or similar effect it can have some limited usage, making it better than, say, contact other plane, but its still generally awful. As a GM its a lot easier to use as you can bend the rules to make it worthwhile (or use a dragon).


_Ozy_ wrote:
Quote:
Alchemist with Breath of Life: worthless because it takes at least a move action then a full round action to apply, but only works in the fist round.
This might work ok with a tumor familiar and the familiar's Deliver Touch Spells ability.

I'd allow that or also let it be delivered with healing bomb, since it's basically a cure spell with an added effect, but still requires some kind of house rules or extra feats just to cast without automatic failure. I wish paizo could be bothered to spend 10 minutes writing up some kind of offical errata for this kind of thing.

Anitmagic field is fantastic if you are more afraid of the enemy caster than your own. We have used it to completely shut down beholders and a formian queen, then let our archers bring them down from within a safe zone.


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Plausible Pseudonym wrote:
ChaiGuy wrote:
Tears-to-Wine and Enhance Water are quite thematic and fun, especially for a follower of Caiden, but they aren't really as useful as create water or purify food and water, which are both at will cantrips compared to Tears-to-wine being a lv 1 or 2 spell or a level 1 Enhance Water.
LOL, you don't use Tears to Wine to not die of thirst, you use it for a +2/5/10 bonus on Perception, Sense Motive, Spellcraft, and all Knowledge skills that lasts for 10 min/level.

I used Tears to Wine quite well in my Skulls & Shackles adventure. With ship battles using a number of skills (piloting, indirect siege engines, other stuff), having a +10 for 1.5+ Hours made battle work so much better. It gives the bonus to ~64 people per 2 levels, if I recall correctly*.

/cevah

*1 cubic foot/2L = ~8 gallons/2L. Each gallon has 8 pints. One pint = one customer. Therefore 64 pints per two levels. Plenty to go around for a ship's crew, even at low level.


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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Plausible Pseudonym wrote:
LOL, you don't use Tears to Wine to not die of thirst, you use it for a +2/5/10 bonus on Perception, Sense Motive, Spellcraft, and all Knowledge skills that lasts for 10 min/level.

That's insane for a 1st level spell!


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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

1 cu. ft. per 2 levels... holy moly! How much do you have to drink to get that effect? A 10th level caster creates 5 freaking 1/4 bbls of the stuff... the whole party should be drinking on it all day, IMO.

EDIT: fixed my math.


WhiteMagus2000 wrote:
I wish paizo could be bothered to spend 10 minutes writing up some kind of offical errata for this kind of thing.

They kinda did. It went from worthless to just terrible.

FAQ

Quote:

Alchemist, Chirurgeon, breath of life: How can I use this extract to bring someone back from the dead?

the chirurgeon can never use this extract to restore someone to life.
In the interest of having power over death actually fulfill its intended purpose (giving the archetype the ability to restore the dead), that ability will be changed to allow the chirurgeon to draw and administer a breath of life infusion to another creature as a full-round action.
This will be updated in the next printing of Ultimate Magic.

So, you can actually administer a breath of life extract to a dead person, as long as they died no more than 5' away from you.


taks wrote:
Plausible Pseudonym wrote:
LOL, you don't use Tears to Wine to not die of thirst, you use it for a +2/5/10 bonus on Perception, Sense Motive, Spellcraft, and all Knowledge skills that lasts for 10 min/level.
That's insane for a 1st level spell!

Be perfect for Drunken Brute barbarians!


Plausible Pseudonym wrote:
ChaiGuy wrote:
Tears-to-Wine and Enhance Water are quite thematic and fun, especially for a follower of Caiden, but they aren't really as useful as create water or purify food and water, which are both at will cantrips compared to Tears-to-wine being a lv 1 or 2 spell or a level 1 Enhance Water.
LOL, you don't use Tears to Wine to not die of thirst, you use it for a +2/5/10 bonus on Perception, Sense Motive, Spellcraft, and all Knowledge skills that lasts for 10 min/level.

I know what wizard spell my skill-monkey magus is poaching next.


Paradozen wrote:
Another worthless spell for most players is Antimagic Field. It is can only be cast by classes which rely heavily on magic for defense, is centered on you (shutting down most of your defenses), and only negatively effects things which you can stay within 10' of. Considering almost everything worth effecting with this has flight available by the time you can cast it, you basically devolve combat into a snowball fight.

I've made good use of Anti-Magic Field on a magus and by UMDing on a fighter.

The fighter even had (EX) flight.


I'm nominating the ranger spell Hunter's Eye. On first reading, it looks really useful for finding an invisible creature. The problem is that if something is invisible, it cannot be targeted and the spell calls out "the target."

Silver Crusade

RealAlchemy wrote:
I'm nominating the ranger spell Hunter's Eye. On first reading, it looks really useful for finding an invisible creature. The problem is that if something is invisible, it cannot be targeted and the spell calls out "the target."

Yeah it won't really help against things that are invisible. But if you know they're about to (or you've temporarily disabled it), plus against things that are ethereal and ignoring environmental concealments is cool.

Silver Crusade

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Haunted Fey Aspect.

Can negate 1hp damage, ever.

Shame, because the fluff is terrific. I'd let people roleplay it. If they were in a crowded supermarket or somewhere suddenly 'making you look and sound like a bizarre, insane fey creature.' has to be worth some intimidate bonus, or maybe a positive one against Fey?

Also they need to expand on exactly what a 'bizarre, insane Fey creature' looks like. It's very appealing.

Anyway, the spell is useless. Yes, it's only a cantrip, but that means you haven't memorized Detect Magic or Prestidifitation or Light or Acid Splash etc.


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The biggest drag with haunted fey aspect is its duration. Because at level 1 the effect can actually be okay. When you're running around with 6-7 HP and fighting enemies that can hit just as hard reducing an attack by 1 can actually be non-trivial.

But a rd/level duration means it never lasts long enough for that to be effective until you're far past the point that it's anywhere near useful.


taks wrote:

1 cu. ft. per 2 levels... holy moly! How much do you have to drink to get that effect? A 10th level caster creates 5 freaking 1/4 bbls of the stuff... the whole party should be drinking on it all day, IMO.

EDIT: fixed my math.

I figured you need to drink a pint. That is, 8 oz. Same size as a glass of orange juice.

You can't drink one casting all day, as it is 10 min per level from casting, not from drinking. So all of the drink expires at the same time. Even Extend does not help much.

However, for downtime, a few castings at 9th level or greater can last all day, and can pump the skills of your crafting shop that is making money/magic for you. Not sure how much bonus you get with that +10 for a day's work, but it should be significant.

/cevah


Snowlilly wrote:
Paradozen wrote:
Another worthless spell for most players is Antimagic Field. It is can only be cast by classes which rely heavily on magic for defense, is centered on you (shutting down most of your defenses), and only negatively effects things which you can stay within 10' of. Considering almost everything worth effecting with this has flight available by the time you can cast it, you basically devolve combat into a snowball fight.

I've made good use of Anti-Magic Field on a magus and by UMDing on a fighter.

The fighter even had (EX) flight.

But... doesn't that negate the bracers of (+physical), the armor enhancements, the weapon enhancements, etc.?

Fighters might not need to actually cast spells, but they are still heavily reliant on magic.

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