|
I'm curious to know how PFS players use intelligent weapons like the Magus' Blackblade. Is it mainly just for flavor, or are there certain built-in advantages, problems, etc. that I'm not thinking of? Sure it has senses and can talk, but it's always in the Magus' hands so it can't be autonomous so those abilities are pretty stifled, right?
|
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
I will never play a Bladebound magus. Intelligent weapons are just more trouble than they are worth. Most of the time, its just there, but occasionally you'll tank an action that your GM feels is out of line with your alignment, and have the sword try to take control of you. The more powerful the weapon, the more likely it is to succeed.
If I find an intelligent weapon, it gets sold or destroyed.
I follow the Orange Catholic Bible in this: "Thou shalt not make a machine magic item in the likeness of a human mind."
|
|
I've used my blackblade when I and the party were blindfolded - handy to know where we went.
I tried this but as soon as I said "My sword telepathically lets me know where we are going" the GM metagamed and suddenly insisted that the black blade get put into a bag. I was rather annoyed but I figured it was box text that the players not get to know the location.
My sword will often make intimidate checks to demoralize people (with the "smaller than the target" size penalty! haha). I've never had it mind control me to save me from dominate (because I've invested so much effort into being un-mind-controllable) but that's an awesome idea.
|
I've used my blackblade when I and the party were blindfolded - handy to know where we went.I tried this but as soon as I said "My sword telepathically lets me know where we are going" the GM metagamed and suddenly insisted that the black blade get put into a bag. I was rather annoyed but I figured it was box text that the players not get to know the location.
My sword will often make intimidate checks to demoralize people (with the "smaller than the target" size penalty! haha). I've never had it mind control me to save me from dominate (because I've invested so much effort into being un-mind-controllable) but that's an awesome idea.
How does it intimidate others when it can only speak to you?
That being said, last time I had it the GM wouldn't let me make perception checks with it so I just started rolling for it discretely and telling him whichever one was higher. (but since the PC had a +10 and the sword had a -2 it didn't really matter..)
|
|
I've used my blackblade when I and the party were blindfolded - handy to know where we went.I tried this but as soon as I said "My sword telepathically lets me know where we are going" the GM metagamed and suddenly insisted that the black blade get put into a bag. I was rather annoyed but I figured it was box text that the players not get to know the location.
My sword will often make intimidate checks to demoralize people (with the "smaller than the target" size penalty! haha). I've never had it mind control me to save me from dominate (because I've invested so much effort into being un-mind-controllable) but that's an awesome idea.
How does it intimidate others when it can only speak to you?
That being said, last time I had it the GM wouldn't let me make perception checks with it so I just started rolling for it discretely and telling him whichever one was higher. (but since the PC had a +10 and the sword had a -2 it didn't really matter..)
I believe the sword begins with knowing Common and I thought it actually can speak...is that not correct?
|
|
I believe the sword begins with knowing Common and I thought it actually can speak...is that not correct?I've used my blackblade when I and the party were blindfolded - handy to know where we went.I tried this but as soon as I said "My sword telepathically lets me know where we are going" the GM metagamed and suddenly insisted that the black blade get put into a bag. I was rather annoyed but I figured it was box text that the players not get to know the location.
My sword will often make intimidate checks to demoralize people (with the "smaller than the target" size penalty! haha). I've never had it mind control me to save me from dominate (because I've invested so much effort into being un-mind-controllable) but that's an awesome idea.
How does it intimidate others when it can only speak to you?
That being said, last time I had it the GM wouldn't let me make perception checks with it so I just started rolling for it discretely and telling him whichever one was higher. (but since the PC had a +10 and the sword had a -2 it didn't really matter..)
It begins knowing one language its Magus knows and can speak telepathically with the Magus only.
|
|
Here's the ability.
Telepathy (Su): While a magus is wielding or carrying his black blade, he can communicate telepathically with the blade in a language that the magus and the black blade share.
Also, it does start only knowing common. I was mixing that up with the line above that says they communicate in a language they both share.
|
|
Wrong. The sword can speak out loud. Able to speak common means it's able to speak common. It can also telepathically communicate with the magus. Where does it say "Despite being able to speak common, the sword cannot speak?" It even gains languages as it levels up. Why would it do so of it couldn't ever use any of them?
And the sword was sheathed - they had no reason to suspect it was an intelligent weapon besides metagame knowledge. Also, why do you think sheathing the blade would make it unable to see what's around me? The handle and hilt are still quite exposed.
|
|
Wrong. The sword can speak out loud.Where does it say it can speak? It begins knowing common, and every time it's intelligence increases, it learns a new language, but it doesn't say it can speak anywhere.
Speech is a specific intelligent item ability, and it's not listed for the black blade.
This is an interesting question. Where does it say that it DOES or does NOT speak aloud? I don't see it anywhere. I just see where it says that it starts off knowing Common AND that it can speak Telepathically, NOT that it can ONLY speak Telepathically. So, maybe ambiguous?
Is there any official text anywhere about ANY intelligent weapons able to speak aloud? Perhaps it's assumed one way or the other?
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Wrong. The sword can speak out loud. Able to speak common means it's able to speak common. It can also telepathically communicate with the magus. Where does it say "Despite being able to speak common, the sword cannot speak?" It even gains languages as it levels up. Why would it do so of it couldn't ever use any of them?
And the sword was sheathed - they had no reason to suspect it was an intelligent weapon besides metagame knowledge. Also, why do you think sheathing the blade would make it unable to see what's around me? The handle and hilt are still quite exposed.
Please be more informed when you so emphatically call someone out.
Speech (Su): An intelligent item with the capability for speech can talk using any of the languages it knows.
Telepathy (Su): Telepathy allows an intelligent item to communicate with its wielder telepathically, regardless of its known languages. The wielder must be touching the item to communicate in this way.
The black blade only has the telepathy ability and not the speech ability. Therefore it cannot speak.
This is an interesting question. Where does it say that it DOES or does NOT speak aloud? I don't see it anywhere. I just see where it says that it starts off knowing Common AND that it can speak Telepathically, NOT that it can ONLY speak Telepathically. So, maybe ambiguous?
Is there any official text anywhere about ANY intelligent weapons able to speak aloud? Perhaps it's assumed one way or the other?
It says it by not having the ability that grants it to do so. It doesn't need to say it doesn't because it doesn't have the speech ability (which is what would allow it do so). The official text is in the intelligent items entry in the PRD under Senses and Communication, as quoted above.
|
|
Senses and Communication
Every intelligent magic item begins with the ability to see and hear within 30 feet, as well as the ability to communicate empathically with its owner. Empathy only allows the item to encourage or discourage certain actions through urges and emotions. Additional forms of communication and better senses increase the item's cost and Ego score, as noted on Table: Intelligent Item Senses and Communication.
Speech (Su): An intelligent item with the capability for speech can talk using any of the languages it knows.
These parts fromt he core suggest speech is an additional ability that comes at a costy for an intelligent weapon. So if it does not list the speech ability the item does not have it.
If it can't speak, why does it gain additional languages? Or any language?
Because it can understand them, and translate for it's wielder via telepathy.
Fair enough.
|
they never officially ruled how that is handled i know my lodge uses a scenarios secondary success condition as the blades purpose.
That is a really awesome idea. I may have to steal that if I ever encounter such a magus.
Edit to add: I think all Black Blades should have the purpose of Explore, Report, and Cooperate! :P
|
|
Actually, It think it is listed somewhere, maybe a post by Mike Brock, and it is basically left to the player's choice, in general.
I remember reading that before, too, but I can't find any of either Mike's or John's posts that say it. You wouldn't happen to know where that is?
At this point I'm not sure if it's something I read from them or something I read from someone else saying they had said it before.
Venture-Captain, Minnesota
|
I played in a recent PFS game where the player of a Magus Black Blade stated, "My blade hasn't found its purpose yet." To me that statement seemed less for roleplay reasons than because the player was seeking to evade the limitations that a Black Blade with a specifically designated purpose would provide.
I'll admit that part of the reason why I hang out on this board is because I'd like to transition to being a PFS GM once I get a better sense of the unique rules of PFS and how GMs deal with them.
As a GM, how would you handle the statement of a player that his black blade didn't have a purpose? Would you ask him to roll on the purpose table, or select one for the mission? Or would you let it go?
Hmm
|
|
I played in a recent PFS game where the player of a Magus Black Blade stated, "My blade hasn't found its purpose yet." To me that statement seemed less for roleplay reasons than because the player was seeking to evade the limitations that a Black Blade with a specifically designated purpose would provide.
I'll admit that part of the reason why I hang out on this board is because I'd like to transition to being a PFS GM once I get a better sense of the unique rules of PFS and how GMs deal with them.
As a GM, how would you handle the statement of a player that his black blade didn't have a purpose? Would you ask him to roll on the purpose table, or select one for the mission? Or would you let it go?
Hmm
If I had to provide a purpose for a Black Blade in PFS, where every GM may have a different interpretation on how to handle it, the purpose would be obscure enough to never come up in game.
|
|
The black blades purpose does not matter in PFS. Over a blade bound Magus's career he will have over 24 game masters that's asking 24 different game masters to try to force a player live with in a purpose that is not Defined within the rules set.
If black blades were really run with the same rules that intelligent magic
weapons then maybe you could in force the rules for a black bales purpose in PFS. Black blades are a very good concept that was not implemented well in the rules.
|
|
please show documentation that states a black blade ignores/alters the restriction of the blade in pfs. ive looked for any ruling on it and cant find any so the class should be played as written at that point.
A black blade is independently conscious but features some personality traits reflecting its wielder. A black blade always has the same alignment as its wielder and even changes its alignment if its wielder does. The blade typically works toward its wielder's goals, but not always without argument or backlash. Each black blade has a mission, and while sometimes two or more black blades will work in concert, each mission is singular in purpose (the black blade's mission is usually up to the GM and the needs of the campaign or the adventure, or a GM can roll randomly for the weapon's purpose using the Intelligent Item Purpose table. Some black blades are very open about their missions, but most are secretive.
01–20 Defeat/slay diametrically opposed alignment* +2
21–30 Defeat/slay arcane spellcasters (including spellcasting monsters and those that use spell-like abilities) +2
31–40 Defeat/slay divine spellcasters (including divine entities and servitors) +2
41–50 Defeat/slay non-spellcasters +2
51–55 Defeat/slay a particular creature type (see the bane special ability for choices) +2
56–60 Defeat/slay a particular race or kind of creature +2
61–70 Defend a particular race or kind of creature +2
71–80 Defeat/slay the servants of a specific deity +2
81–90 Defend the servants and interests of a specific deity +2
91–95 Defeat/slay all (other than the item and the wielder) +2
96–100 Choose one +2
Opposed alignment? Hard to tell, since Magus doesn't have the detect alignment spell.
Arcane spellcasters? Not really suitable to the "needs of the campaign".Divine spellcasters? Same, not really suitable for PFSOP.
Non-spellcasters? Pretty much the same thing, there.
Particular creature type? Possibly, but not, generally, suitable for PFSOP.
Slay race/kind of creature? Again, not suitable for PFSOP.
Defend particular race/kind of creature? Need I mention the focus of the in-game PFS?
Defeat/slay servants of a specific deity? Pathfinder Society, not the Godslayer Guild
Defend servants/interests of a specific deity? Again, Pathfinder Society, not the Aroden Reborn cult.
Defeat/slay all? Definitely, totally, outside the needs of the campaign.
Choose one? Sure.
If you have to be so pedantic, the goal/purpose of the black blade can be to Explore, Report, Cooperate!.
Or, the way I originally defined my Bladebound Magus's black blade, similar in outlook to a ronin of the Samurai class, so in tune with the goals of the organization.
I don't have the time, or the search fu, to look for it, but I recall either Mark Moreland or Mike Brock posted that, for PFSOP, the black blade's purpose is the furtherance of the Pathfinder Society's goals.
|
|
Until Mike Brock/John Compton comes along and tells me what my black blade's mission is, neither I nor my PC has any way of knowing.
Why wouldn't you?
Hellknights are legal characters in PFS, correct?
The only way a character can become a Hellknight is to slay a Devil of your HD or higher. Well, since it's a PFS-legal prestige class, this would indicate you have something you can add to your back story (for free!) that's pretty cool.
Your allowed to state what you look like, why you became a Pathfinder, what you love/hate, etc. as part of your character's back story. Why not state the "mission" of your PFS-legal black blade? Short of saying, it's mission is to slay non-evil creatures, you're pretty much open to whatever seems to be cool to you.
Have fun...it's a game. And, if the GM isn't cool with the back story of the blade, then simply revert back to shrugging your shoulders and saying to the table, "Hey...I just have this really cool blade that talks to me telepathically about nothing important."
|
|
Until Mike Brock/John Compton comes along and tells me what my black blade's mission is, neither I nor my PC has any way of knowing.Why wouldn't you?
Hellknights are legal characters in PFS, correct?
The only way a character can become a Hellknight is to slay a Devil of your HD or higher. Well, since it's a PFS-legal prestige class, this would indicate you have something you can add to your back story (for free!) that's pretty cool.
Your allowed to state what you look like, why you became a Pathfinder, what you love/hate, etc. as part of your character's back story. Why not state the "mission" of your PFS-legal black blade? Short of saying, it's mission is to slay non-evil creatures, you're pretty much open to whatever seems to be cool to you.
Have fun...it's a game. And, if the GM isn't cool with the back story of the blade, then simply revert back to shrugging your shoulders and saying to the table, "Hey...I just have this really cool blade that talks to me telepathically about nothing important."
Because as noted above some GMs think they're in charge of my black blade's story. Since they aren't in charge of the campaign they don't know what it is. I can't make up goals for my sword that may influence scenarios, either, so that's the best answer I can give.
|
|
In PFS, unless you're in a special situation like an AP with one GM, it would seem that you could determine its mission. If the GM has no desire to go along with it...so be it. Otherwise, if you have a GM that's willing to add some additional flavor into the scenario...bonus!
You're correct, if there's something official from Paizo...great. In lieu of that, enjoy the openness of the game and have a blast creating a unique character background.
|
|
The black blades purpose does not matter in PFS. Over a blade bound Magus's career he will have over 24 game masters that's asking 24 different game masters to try to force a player live with in a purpose that is not Defined within the rules set.
If black blades were really run with the same rules that intelligent magic
weapons then maybe you could in force the rules for a black bales purpose in PFS. Black blades are a very good concept that was not implemented well in the rules.
Something not working well in PFS is not a good yardstick to say it doesn't work well period. This sort of thing can be amazingly fun in a home game where the GM can work with the player to make a fun an engaging story that is consistent for the whole campaign.