Ok, so everyone knows that you dont put a Portable Hole and a Bag of Holding together. But according to this
the bag of holding and portable hole are an exception. So my question is what if I have my bag of holding in a handy haversack before entering a portable hole? Is the Haversack a buffer? It is in a different extra dimensional space that is even sealed off once you enter the hole.
I ask because I keep my type III bag of holding inside my minor bag of holding inside my Handy Haversack (gotta keep weight down) and the party camps in a Portable Hole that we just found. I stay outside of the Hole every night keeping watch anyway but I wanted to be sure I'm not a Suggestion spell away from a TPK every night. Just because my DM isn't evil enough to do that doesn't mean I want to have that kind of sword hanging above our heads.
Is this kind of a way to cheat on magic bag capacity limits? Put all your heavy camping stuff and things you don't need quick access to in a bag of holding type 4. Put that bag in your haversack. You are now only carrying the weight of the haversack. If you need anything from the bag of holding, pull it out of your haversack.
KABOOM
A handy heaversack works like 3 seperate bags of Holding with a bit of extra. If you put them in a portable hole you Will have the classic problem. Just like over loading or punctureing them wil make your stuff vanish.
In my reading at least.
A handy heaversack works like 3 seperate bags of Holding with a bit of extra..
Given that bags of holding are singled out as "an exception," but haversacks aren't, I disagree with this interpretation.
The handy haversack is "like a bag of holding" times 3, plus it's an elite version, as if there were a tiny gnome with telepathy inside ready to hand you exactly what you want.
So here's the thing I don't understand: Why is it so cheap? Sure, the total volume is slightly less than a type one bag, but its utility is so far superior!
It seems obvious to me that this item would function exactly like a bag of holding in regards to a portable hole. Though I suppose we'll never know, since anyone having tested it is never seen again. <g>
A handy heaversack works like 3 seperate bags of Holding with a bit of extra..Given that bags of holding are singled out as "an exception," but haversacks aren't, I disagree with this interpretation.
The description of the Handy Haversack says, each pouch is like a bag of holding.
Why would it not react like a bag of holding?
How would you phrase the Suggestion? I'm just curious, as the spell Suggestion stipulates that the command must be "worded in such a manner as to make the activity sound reasonable."
Destroying your possessions, shunting your friends to the astral plane and opening a massive rift in the space-time continuum is a bit of a hard sell, that's all I'm saying.
A handy heaversack works like 3 seperate bags of Holding with a bit of extra..Given that bags of holding are singled out as "an exception," but haversacks aren't, I disagree with this interpretation.
From the discription of handy heaversack. " In fact, each is like a bag of holding and can actually hold material of as much as 2 cubic feet in volume or 20 pounds in weight. The large central portion of the pack can contain up to 8 cubic feet or 80 pounds of material. Even when so filled, the backpack always weighs only 5 pounds."
I read "like a bag of Holding" as mening that.Edit: ninja'd twice.
Dot
A handy heaversack works like 3 seperate bags of Holding with a bit of extra..Given that bags of holding are singled out as "an exception," but haversacks aren't, I disagree with this interpretation.The description of the Handy Haversack says, each pouch is like a bag of holding.
Why would it not react like a bag of holding?
Because the description of non-dimensional spaces specifically describes how extradimensional spaces -- including haversacks -- work, and then singles out the bags of holding and portable holes, but not haversacks as exceptions to that description.
How would you phrase the Suggestion? I'm just curious, as the spell Suggestion stipulates that the command must be "worded in such a manner as to make the activity sound reasonable."
Destroying your possessions, shunting your friends to the astral plane and opening a massive rift in the space-time continuum is a bit of a hard sell, that's all I'm saying.
"There's a special magical aura here that keeps this from happening."
3.5 specifically allowed you to lie to the subject of the spell to make the activity sound more reasonable; the specific example given is the "suggestion that a pool of acid is actually pure water and that a quick dip would be refreshing."
It says the Haversack's compartment is 'like' a Bag of Holding, but it's fairly ambiguous in what way they are alike. Is it like it with respect to how it acts inside a Portable Hole? I'd guess not, but that's just my opinion.
Rule as written seem clear that the Haversack is not a Bag of holding, at least not in this specific context.
1)
'Bag of holding' and 'Handy haversack' are listed as separate examples of extra-dimensional effect. This means the wording 'Bag of Holding' does not include 'Handy Haversack'.
2)
The claimed only exception refers to stuff happening "as noted in their descriptions". Bag of holding and Portable hole have this noted in their description, Handy haversack does not.
Whether houseruling the opposite would give a better(*) game is not a matter of interpreting what the rules say, but of taste.
(*) more fun, more logically consistent, more opportunity to railroad the group to the astral plan by means of clumsy npc's, whatever reason you have. I don't mind, it's your game.
Just a note, it wouldn't be a TPK regardless. Everybody would get shunted to the Astral Plane, sure, but that just means they're one Plane shift away from being very peeved at you.
|
I guess ask your DM for an interpretation since this is a gray area. Or, even better, recommend getting rid of this ridiculous corner case all together. As I understand it, it is a vestigial rule that was first created to prevent players from nesting containers like matryoshka dolls however it no longer does that due to new mechanics. These days all it seems to do is give killer DMs a "gotcha" for when a player screws up or give high level players an expensive, no-save "off to the astral plain with you" arrow.
Because the description of non-dimensional spaces specifically describes how extradimensional spaces -- including haversacks -- work, and then singles out the bags of holding and portable holes, but not haversacks as exceptions to that description.
To hang this on the wording like this seems very nit picky. No GM I play under would let this fly. A Haversack would react in every way just as a Bag of Holding does. Worse in fact, since it would rip open 3 separate holes and you you'll arrive on the astral plane in just as many pieces.
For me the Bag of Holding is the generic product, while Handy Haversack is a brand name (it originally was Heward's Handy Haversack after all ^.^)
|
|
Because the description of non-dimensional spaces specifically describes how extradimensional spaces -- including haversacks -- work, and then singles out the bags of holding and portable holes, but not haversacks as exceptions to that description.To hang this on the wording like this seems very nit picky. No GM I play under would let this fly. A Haversack would react in every way just as a Bag of Holding does. Worse in fact, since it would rip open 3 separate holes and you you'll arrive on the astral plane in just as many pieces.
For me the Bag of Holding is the generic product, while Handy Haversack is a brand name (it originally was Heward's Handy Haversack after all ^.^)
Of course it is nit-picky, it's a vestigial rule not well supported by the game in it's current state. What happens if I tie a portable hole on an arrow (I.E. our "astral arrow" from above) and shove it into an efficient quiver? There's absolutely no mention of the "bag of holding" in the efficient quivers description but it is an nondimensional space and it is, in all essence, a handy haversack explicitly for archery equipment. What happens then?
I think they explode. If for no other reason than comic effect.