Exploiter Wizard (Archetype)


Rules Questions


Does the Exploiter Wizard Archetype's Class Feature:

Quote:
Exploiter Exploit: At 1st level and every 4 levels thereafter, the exploiter wizard gains a single arcanist exploit. The exploiter wizard uses his wizard level as his arcanist level for determining the effects and DCs of his arcanist exploits. This ability replaces arcane school.

Count as "Arcanist Exploit Class Feature" for the purpose of qualifying for this feat?

Quote:

Extra Arcanist Exploit

Your repertoire of arcanist exploits expands.
Prerequisite: Arcanist exploit class feature.
Benefit: You gain one additional arcanist exploit. You must meet the prerequisites for this arcanist exploit.


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Since the title of the feature is "Exploiter Exploit", and the feat states that the prerequisite is "Arcanist Exploit", I'm thinkin' not.


I thought there was a faq where similiar class abilities would count for the purpose of feats or prestige classes. Like skirmish counts as sneak attack so exploiter exploits should count as arcanist exploits.


KuntaSS wrote:
I thought there was a faq where similiar class abilities would count for the purpose of feats.

Yes. Here.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
FAQ wrote:

Archetype: If an archetype replaces a class ability with a more specific version of that ability (or one that works similarly to the replaced ability), does the archetype's ability count as the original ability for the purpose of rules that improve the original ability?

It depends on how the archetype's ability is worded. If the archetype ability says it works like the standard ability, it counts as that ability. If the archetype's ability requires you to make a specific choice for the standard ability, it counts as that ability. Otherwise, the archetype ability doesn't count as the standard ability. (It doesn't matter if the archetype's ability name is different than the standard class ability it is replacing; it is the description and game mechanics of the archetype ability that matter.)

D20PSRD wrote:

D

Arcanist Exploits

By bending and sometimes even breaking the rules of magic, the arcanist learns to exploit gaps and exceptions in the laws of magic. Some of these exploits allow her to break down various forms of magic, adding their essence to her arcane reservoir. At 1st level and every 2 levels thereafter, the arcanist learns a new arcane exploit selected from the following list. An arcanist exploit cannot be selected more than once. Once an arcanist exploit has been selected, it cannot be changed. Most arcanist exploits require the arcanist to expend points from her arcane reservoir to function. Unless otherwise noted, the saving throw DC for an arcanist exploit is equal to 10 + 1/2 the arcanist's level + the arcanist's Charisma modifier.

I think that it is near enough to allow the application of the FAQ, but other GM interpretation can be different.

It is borderline until we get a official interpretation.


Rules of the game is that the substance of an ability matters, not the label. see here: http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2rfmq?Claim-When-you-get-a-class-ability-you#1

The Exchange

Greetings & Hello paizonites!

(This being my very first comment in this site)

Now, to business:

I am working up a Half-Elf Universalist Exploiter Wizard, and I would like to have confirmation that my character may use Int (rather than Cha) to compute the modifiers listed in the Arcanist Exploits.

My opinion is "yes" in keeping with the latter comment by Pupsocket (haha, clever, inventive name!) concerning substance, and my reading of what the Exploiter description implies to me.

As an aside, I might say that I am fond of role-play, and thus will not "number crunch to the tee" to obtain the maximum destructive powers. In keeping with that premise, I am fond of the idea to be capable of casting as great a number of variety of spells as possible, in that respect, I would be glad to entertain suggestions if anything along those lines pops into anyone's mind.

Thanks!


I don't see why the ability score it keys off of would change...
Arcanists derive all of their spellcasting through Int and their exploits through Cha; it should be no different for an Exploiter Wizard, if they had intended these exploits to key off Int, I expect it would have been mentioned.

The Exchange

Ah, okay, Thanks Achaeik. Yeah, I think that is the correct answer
(once I read it more than once and realized that the fact that Int & Cha is being used already by the Arcanist, then it puts it into a clearer perspective). I'll put together my character accordingly.

The other thing I am looking at right now is what feats are available. So far, I think that this exploiter wiz would get the every other level feats as any character generally would get, and no bonus metamagic that a "straight" universalist would have (which, as a "thought experiement" would be out of balance to have in conjunction with the arcane exploits gotten every 4 levels).

Being that I am relatively new to Pathfinder, I do not have so much "PFS common sense" as I probably should have, so I'm attempting to break down everything to a fundamental level whereever it seems that I might need to in order to put this character together without breaking something.

I might yet choose a different archtype (maybe spell sage?). But, one thing I very much like is the idea of having a magic book with every single spell in it ( it seems to me to be a fun thing to have in order to be able to have something for just about any occasion). The other thing is the ability to be able to cast any of them "on the spot." Finally, speaking for myself, I need to end up with something that feels "role-playable" to me.


You do not lose a Wizard's bonus feats, and they are not tied to being a Universalist.

Arcane Reservoir (Su) wrote:
This ability replaces arcane bond.
Exploiter Exploit wrote:
This ability replaces arcane school.

Essentially you give up your familiar or bonded object, and you give up school powers/extra spells per day(for specialists).

Depending, on level and what you're trying to do with the Reservoir, it seems like it's more or less worth it... that is to say a situational +4 CL (through Spell Specialization/Potent Magic Reservoir) is pretty good, and it's available from level 1(without needing to be human in PFS); then Magical Lineage something good that also benefits from this trick and have some metamagic fun (Intensified or Empower work nicely).

The Exchange

Right on, I realized some of that also after reading the description again (and, that the "Arcane School" that I give up is in fact the "Universalist School." And, therefore those things attached to a Universalist go away also as you mentioned.

But that's cool. The other thing which you pointed out also is part of what I want to do, so I'll be looking more into how to more strongly oppose other casters ( as well as how to reduce the saves of a target).

And, I think that the Arcanist exploits that I might choose are not too terribly dependent on Cha. Even so, I initially had ability scores which were very low so that I could have a maxed out Int (20, with the Half-Elf adjustment), but then, I felt that I wanted a rounded character. So I reduced the Int to 18, and the lowest score is now 10 in Str.

When I was mixed up on the caster school trade-off, I was also not certain if the number of spells per day were based off of Arcanist or Wiz - but, now I see that it is based off of the Wiz chart ( so that at 1st level I have 3 first level spells rather than the 4 that the Arcanist has - Int or other bonuses aside).

I am now wondering what the possibilities are for "eating" potions and such in regard to recharging the Arcane Reservoir. I'll need to read up a bit more on that, and what the limitations are as well as what are the best things to eat..
..but, I think, that would have to have a limit, or else, with the correct combination of Arcanist Exploits, we'd have Arcanists casting spells like they were cantrips.

The Exchange

I might opt for a familiar also (but later, if at all).. "last" time I played a wiz with a familiar was so many years ago that it was when the familiar was part of your hit points (back when there was only AD&D- which begins to reveal my age haha).

But they're loads of fun and are very useful- I particularly like the raven (or sparrow) for their speaking ability.

Another consideration before I got into archetypes was to have a level of bard or rogue for skills, but now I'm thinking that I might use traits to get, say, acrobatics (or possibly disable?) and stick to Wiz levels exclusively.

That brings me to one thing ( which might be the final thing for putting this character together ) is choosing a faction. They have traits attached, and I am looking at how they are received..
..arbitrarily for merely choosing a faction at all?
Or, if it might be some sort of trade-off (which is implied in each faction description where it says "or" ).

It is a somewhat sensitive issues for me (because of the role-play consideration), but I'll have to read up on all of those also.


Achaicus. Your questions recently are meant for the advice not the rules forum since you're not asking about the rules, and you'll find much more help there.

The Exchange

Achaicus wrote:
3 first level spells rather than the 4 that the Arcanist has.

oops - correction "cantrips" rather than "first level spells" (as a 1st level Wiz)

The Exchange

Chess Pwn wrote:
Achaicus. Your questions recently are meant for the advice not the rules forum since you're not asking about the rules, and you'll find much more help there.

Alrighty, I was thinking, originally, that it would be better to post in a Exploiter focused thread which is already present, but I can try to diverge the subject more appropriately in the future.


When I was building an exploiter wizard using the Tabletop Giant character creator, I could select the Extra Reservoir feat, but not the Extra Arcanist Exploit feat, which is what I wanted. Since the character generator is supposed to produce PFS legal characters, it seems that exploiter wizards are not allowed to take the /Extra Arcanist Exploit feat.

The Exchange

The FAQ is correct. It counts as the ability for purposes of the feat even though it uses a different name.

3rd party character creators are not a rules source at all.

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