help I've got an evil party


Advice


I am having trouble with my game group. All of them are evil and makes it really hard to find a quest that ties into the over all story. I need advice on how to make the good or at least neutral.


Tell them that you didn't want to make an evil campaign and that they should have asked before making a party of evil characters.


Well, honestly, I think the best thing you could do is talk to them out of game and tell them you'd prefer not to run a game with evil PCs. That being said however, I don't think you can (or should) try to force them to play good or neutral.

Outside of that, could you post some more details? Like, how exactly are they being evil? What is the campaign and story like? The latter is especially important as without knowing what is going on in the world, there'll probably be a lot of ideas that don't fit your world.


Just be up front and tell them you don't want to run an evil campaign and ask them if they would mind changing their characters to not be evil.

If they resist, step down as the GM.

Personally, I wrote up house rule for my players for character creation (and other house rules) so they know what changes or restrictions exist.

I disallow Neutral Evil and Chaotic Evil characters. Lawful Evil can be made work with groups relatively easily, but doesn't help if everyone is evil.

The only way to handle this is to talk to them.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

This is why I always specify when I start a new game, "Good or neutral characters only, please."

I would definitely say something to them about it. Either have them make new characters, or at worst tweak them up to chaotic neutral which may not solve any of your problems.


They story is that one of rovagug off springs is trying to free him and the party chose to kill the holy men they were tasked to guard instead of protecting one of the keys to his cell and now I'm at a lost of where to go


3 people marked this as a favorite.

4 words:

Way of the Wicked

In other words, if your players want to play evil characters, maybe you should just go with it.


archonrussell wrote:

They story is that one of rovagug off springs is trying to free him and the party chose to kill the holy men they were tasked to guard instead of protecting one of the keys to his cell and now I'm at a lost of where to go

Are you willing to accept this as an evil campaign? If so, just change the story from them stopping Rovagug's release to one of bringing about his release.

Otherwise, you're really going to have to speak with your players to salvage this. You can have some divine intervention smack the characters upside the head and make them atone for their stupidity; you could make them build new characters and have the old PC's become antagonists in the new story.


Arachnofiend has good ideas. If you're not really willing to talk to them out of game for some reason those could work.

I could definitely see a few strong paladins, clerics and maybe inquisitors popping in and being all, "What the actual heck dudes?! You just pretty much released doom on everything! Including quite possibly yourselves!...Why?!"

Seriously though. What makes them think Rovagug wouldn't just kill them too? I mean, "The Great Destroyer" doesn't sound like someone who cares that they were done a favor.

Could cop out... make what they did a nightmare / vision sent by a good diety with a note at the end saying, "NO! Bad adventurer's!" *Swats them on the nose with rolled up scroll paper.*

Perhaps you could have said paladins, clerics and inquisitors to convince them to go and get a good deity to come and have an epic battle with Rovagug or something. Perhaps they must find a legendary artifact that seals Rovagug once again.

The PCs becoming antagonists is pretty good if you can talk to them and get them to understand no more evil.


archonrussell wrote:
I am having trouble with my game group. All of them are evil and makes it really hard to find a quest that ties into the over all story. I need advice on how to make the good or at least neutral.

You could go with it and have fun?

I remember many enjoyable evil campaigns from back in the day.

As a dm, evil can actually end up helping the forces of good, and protecting people, just let them be jobbers, but not utter psychos.

Sovereign Court

Ask them about their characters. Find out what their motivations are. Evil doesn't mean psychopath.

I have played in an evil party (highest alignment was LN) we managed to work in the campaign because for the most part our party were selfish bastards out for their own interests. We would do anything to get the job done: torture, bribes, lie, cheat and steal. Nothing was below the belt.

The DM switched the motivation from "save the world because you are good!" to "We'll pay you a lot of money if you stop those guys ransacking the city."

We pretty much became black ops for the government doing the jobs that no one else wanted or were willing to do.

Our overall journey may have saved the world but that was only because the world happened to be the place we lived and by the way that is a million gold saving the world fee either in a lump sum or with a 3.5% interest compounded monthly until payed off I'll have my people contact your people.


Thayan adventuring parties used to work in ol' Realms. The lawful and careful evil groups out to set big plans into motion. Sometimes they even saved the day, but always for a bigger scheme.


Guess it depends on evil. DM'd some evil that just played as "I will do what it takes to get what I want with the least amount of fuss" or "I stomp on the babies head just to hear it squish". Both have radically different takes on motivation. If the first find hooks and turn it more into evil kingmaker or way of the wicked. The second let them revel in their evil and send good to root them out.

On tablet so excuse it's dumb auto correct.


A lot of player teams make evil characters so they can backstab each other and claim it's within their alignment. There's an easy way out of that, though; just give them a boss. This boss tells them in no uncertain terms that they have to work together regardless of alignment issues or they'll all be destroyed (not just killed, destroyed, as in there will be no resurrections and their souls will be devoured).


I'm currently running Way of the Wicked, and it has a boss and his boss who will devour your soul if you backstab each other.

But normally I run good to neutral campaigns and during session 0 make this clear. In addition, I either impose a common long-term goal, or tell the players to come up with one for themselves (depending on the particular campaign). I tell the players to make PCs that can cooperate. The game doesn't even start until the PCs are capable of working together.

I've been in too many games where that wasn't done, and that includes non-D&D games where alignment is not a consideration (Traveller, Exalted, All Flesh Must Be Eaten, Savage Deadlands, others).


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Why don't you create a team of good npc's and have them chasing and try to achieve the same objectives but for the opposite reasons. Story is still intact and at the end they get screwed over then it turns into evil vs. evil. Fun Stuff!


Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber
Claxon wrote:


I disallow Neutral Evil and Chaotic Evil characters. Lawful Evil can be made work with groups relatively easily, but doesn't help if everyone is evil.

finally, someone else that realizes lawful evil isn't as story breaking as the other evils.

Silver Crusade

The nice thing about having Evil PC's is that you can thrown ANY alignment at them as enemies.

Good NPC's? Duh...good vs evil.
Neutral...See above...
Evil vs Evil? "Don't try to stand in my way to greatness."


archonrussell wrote:

They story is that one of rovagug off springs is trying to free him and the party chose to kill the holy men they were tasked to guard instead of protecting one of the keys to his cell and now I'm at a lost of where to go

So they're evil, but presumably they're not suicidal. Have them go on the same quest, but for selfish reasons.

Good guys: "We must stop Rovagug! He'll hurt all those innocent people and destroy the world!"

Bad guys: "We can't let Rovagug destroy the world! That's where I keep all my stuff!"

Silver Crusade

archonrussell wrote:

They story is that one of rovagug off springs is trying to free him and the party chose to kill the holy men they were tasked to guard instead of protecting one of the keys to his cell and now I'm at a lost of where to go

So, are you implying that Rovagug is the only Evil deity in your world? Are you implying that all evil characters in your world have the same objectives?


Bandw2 wrote:
Claxon wrote:


I disallow Neutral Evil and Chaotic Evil characters. Lawful Evil can be made work with groups relatively easily, but doesn't help if everyone is evil.
finally, someone else that realizes lawful evil isn't as story breaking as the other evils.

Other evils don't have to be game breaking either, especially if you have all evil characters to start. My last all evil campaign (largely CE, with one ostensibly CN druid) we ended up being more like a very dysfunctional adoptive family. Everyone was constantly posturing and beating up on each other, but really the only people that anyone in the party cared about were the others in the party, so we helped each other out. Basically, if everyone is evil, just make sure there is a different flavor of evil that they want to kill because it is stepping on their toes. Remind them that several evil gods were instrumental in stopping Rovagug the first time, and give them some other option for stopping the big bad. If they still want to release Rovagug, then turn your original quests on their head and have the "antagonists" be the good guys.


Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber
hgsolo wrote:
Bandw2 wrote:
Claxon wrote:


I disallow Neutral Evil and Chaotic Evil characters. Lawful Evil can be made work with groups relatively easily, but doesn't help if everyone is evil.
finally, someone else that realizes lawful evil isn't as story breaking as the other evils.
Other evils don't have to be game breaking either, especially if you have all evil characters to start. My last all evil campaign (largely CE, with one ostensibly CN druid) we ended up being more like a very dysfunctional adoptive family. Everyone was constantly posturing and beating up on each other, but really the only people that anyone in the party cared about were the others in the party, so we helped each other out. Basically, if everyone is evil, just make sure there is a different flavor of evil that they want to kill because it is stepping on their toes. Remind them that several evil gods were instrumental in stopping Rovagug the first time, and give them some other option for stopping the big bad. If they still want to release Rovagug, then turn your original quests on their head and have the "antagonists" be the good guys.

I'm just saying, it's not as easy to go fullmurderhobo(and possibly to start killing important people) as lawful evil... because it's not very lawful.


archonrussell wrote:

They story is that one of rovagug off springs is trying to free him and the party chose to kill the holy men they were tasked to guard instead of protecting one of the keys to his cell and now I'm at a lost of where to go

Do they want to free Rovagug? Let them try to do so, and deal with the consequences. (Read: EVERY god, regardless of alignment, now wants to kill you if you start to get close. If you succeed, Rovagug essentially destroys the world.)

Are they not idiotic lunatics? Then even as evil characters, they should want to keep Rovagug imprisoned, and the campaign can continue.

Do you just not want to run a campaign with an evil party? Time to have a talk with them.


Bandw2 wrote:
hgsolo wrote:
Bandw2 wrote:
Claxon wrote:


I disallow Neutral Evil and Chaotic Evil characters. Lawful Evil can be made work with groups relatively easily, but doesn't help if everyone is evil.
finally, someone else that realizes lawful evil isn't as story breaking as the other evils.
Other evils don't have to be game breaking either, especially if you have all evil characters to start. My last all evil campaign (largely CE, with one ostensibly CN druid) we ended up being more like a very dysfunctional adoptive family. Everyone was constantly posturing and beating up on each other, but really the only people that anyone in the party cared about were the others in the party, so we helped each other out. Basically, if everyone is evil, just make sure there is a different flavor of evil that they want to kill because it is stepping on their toes. Remind them that several evil gods were instrumental in stopping Rovagug the first time, and give them some other option for stopping the big bad. If they still want to release Rovagug, then turn your original quests on their head and have the "antagonists" be the good guys.
I'm just saying, it's not as easy to go fullmurderhobo(and possibly to start killing important people) as lawful evil... because it's not very lawful.

That's true. Luckily we didn't have any LE to get in the way of our murderhobo'in.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Do you want murderhobos?

Because that's how you get murderhobos


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Most players when they want to play evil, really just want to play:
- Murderhobo, or
- Badass

Ascertain if one of these or a combination of these is what they're actually after. If they're actually wanting to play evil, then it will require some more research and effort.

If they truly want Evil, let them dig into the dregs of society and depravity. Let them revel in it. For example:

- Run a profitable, forced prostitution ring. Such business can include travel and end up turning quite a profit. Include drug trafficking on the side--many forced rings use some illegal means to control their chattel, and keep them compliant. This isn't glamorous. It's the backs of buildings and the removal of will from another person as a means of profiteering and gratification.

- Participate within or run an underground mafia and life of crime including bribery, coercion and etc., while turning profit; this means delving into exploitation and the limits of profit. The mafia leaders may even see themselves as the good guys...but they're still going to be the shit out of your kid if you don't pay up, or worse.

- Explore actual medieval scenarios. For example, the PCs could begin life as enforcers for nobility. One method is that they're hired on to enforce taxes paid and due. However, it's done in an evil way than "just a reasonable tax." The duke's methods push people into poverty. With a fantasy/magic twist to it, they could be in the business of undead conversion in order to pay off the family debt (a lifetime spent in the fields). Perhaps the PCs eventually take over.

- If they want twisted, consider a necromancer offering special services to the populace. Hey, you can't get pregnant with the dead! There could also be bounties on "recovering" well-known or beautiful faces on the side. Has the young princeling always admired Lady Driua from afar? Etc.

- Special forces during war who go beyond the Ruse of War engagement guidelines. This falls in line with spreading diseased blankets among families, rounding up and threatening the vulnerable to control a populace. Look to recent acts committed in the Middle East for inspiration, or...hey, human history, genocides. I am not going to go into these here, but it demonstrates the limits of what humans are willing to do in order to accomplish a cause or maintain power.

TLDR: they want Badass, make it Badass. If they want Evil...make it Evil.

A focus on profit is an easy driver. "I'm doing this for business," but with Evil--how far are they willing to go? Likely, based on real world examples, far. It should be further than a neutral or good person.

Wiping out entire generations with diseased blankets is an example of "going further." So is the "forced dishonorment" one real-world dictator ordered, where his soldiers, in an organized fashion, assaulted the wives of enemy solders in order to dishonor the men. (Forced dishonorment means what you think it means, by the way).

Back to the fantasy world, perhaps forced magical experimentation on behalf of a powerful wizard's group, just done...in the dark, because of what it involves. Permanent disfigurement, kidnappings, etc.

I wouldn't feel comfortable running most of these stories (I really tend towards humor), but yes, understand what they're after and have that conversation. Badass is easier to do and in my own experience, what most are looking for.


Cheburn wrote:
archonrussell wrote:

They story is that one of rovagug off springs is trying to free him and the party chose to kill the holy men they were tasked to guard instead of protecting one of the keys to his cell and now I'm at a lost of where to go

Do they want to free Rovagug? Let them try to do so, and deal with the consequences. (Read: EVERY god, regardless of alignment, now wants to kill you if you start to get close. If you succeed, Rovagug essentially destroys the world.)

Are they not idiotic lunatics? Then even as evil characters, they should want to keep Rovagug imprisoned, and the campaign can continue.

Do you just not want to run a campaign with an evil party? Time to have a talk with them.

I call dibs on the final line being "Game over man, game over!" if they succeed.


Rynjin wrote:
archonrussell wrote:

They story is that one of rovagug off springs is trying to free him and the party chose to kill the holy men they were tasked to guard instead of protecting one of the keys to his cell and now I'm at a lost of where to go

So they're evil, but presumably they're not suicidal. Have them go on the same quest, but for selfish reasons.

Good guys: "We must stop Rovagug! He'll hurt all those innocent people and destroy the world!"

Bad guys: "We can't let Rovagug destroy the world! That's where I keep all my stuff!"

You don't keep all your stuff on the Astral plane? Amateur. :P


50ShadesofGoblin wrote:

Most players when they want to play evil, really just want to play:

- Murderhobo, or
- Badass

Ascertain if one of these or a combination of these is what they're actually after. If they're actually wanting to play evil, then it will require some more research and effort.

If they truly want Evil, let them dig into the dregs of society and depravity. Let them revel in it. For example:

- Run a profitable, forced prostitution ring. Such business can include travel and end up turning quite a profit. Include drug trafficking on the side--many forced rings use some illegal means to control their chattel, and keep them compliant.

- Participate within or run an underground mafia and life of crime including bribery, coercion and etc., while turning profit; this means delving into exploitation and the limits of profit. The mafia leaders may even see themselves as the good guys...but they're still going to be the s#$% out of your kid if you don't pay up, or worse.

- Explore actual medieval scenarios. For example, the PCs could begin life as enforcers for nobility. One method is that they're hired on to enforce taxes paid and due. However, it's done in an evil way than "just a reasonable tax." The duke's methods push people into poverty. With a fantasy/magic twist to it, they could be in the business of undead conversion in order to pay off the family debt (a lifetime spent in the fields). Perhaps the PCs eventually take over.

- If they want twisted, consider a necromancer offering special services to the populace. Hey, you can't get pregnant with the dead! There could also be bounties on "recovering" well-known or beautiful faces on the side. Has the young princeling always admired Lady Driua from afar? Etc.

- Special forces during war who go beyond the Ruse of War engagement guidelines. This falls in line with spreading diseased blankets among families, rounding up and threatening the vulnerable to control a populace. Look to recent acts committed in the Middle East for inspiration, or...hey,...

Excellent suggestions.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Claxon wrote:

Do you want murderhobos?

Because that's how you get murderhobos

Archer is such a murderhobo.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

An important part of Evil is:
1. You're willing to go further than other alignments
2. The moral justification; for example, arguing to yourself that you're offering a better chance, or someone else would, anyway. Even soldiers within the death camps possessed this--it's what we tell ourselves that we're really doing a good thing, despite what the acts actually are.

...the justification is a key element of the story and characters' motivation.

Such prostitution rings often include the underaged and children, because of ease of smuggling (they're smaller), and higher profit. An organizer or runner might even feel they're "offering these kids a chance when no one else will," and morally justify it. Or, "if I'm not doing it, someone else will." We'd still argue that it's Evil, though.

Glad you like the ideas.


I'm playing a N Evil character right now. I don't think anyone would know from what I do and say but when the party isn't looking i might do something that is definitely evil. The rest of the time, I'm not stupid, I'm not going to incur the wrath of the other guys either 1. while their goal is aligned to mine and 2. for no obvious benefit. Even if I didn't ever actually manifest evilness it's enough to know what my character is thinking.

Goblins are evil but I bet that every now and then they buy Mrs Goblin a bunch of goblin-equivalent roses and make some sweet, sweet lovin.


Evil games are really hard to make interesting, especially if you weren't planning on it. Eventually it'll just turn into some sort of co-op Postal 2.

Communication is the key to coming out of this adversity successfully. Figure out what your players want, tell your players what you want, and find a compromise. Unless all your players just want to play Puppy Kicking Simulator 2k14 in which case walk out that door.


They think they are evil eh? Put them in a really frightening besieged/horror situation with high stakes and see if they choose to work together, or if they screw each other over and die horrible 'orrrible deaths.

Give them exposure to some lovable helpful npcs. If they execute these they are too far gone, so send in the Paladin dm's catharsis division along with clerics with selective channelling.


Modivate them by greed wrather than selflesness. Evil characters can do good deeds if they are self serving. let them know there may be a chance to get something out of it. Maybe the buxom bar maid whos kid they rescued would be "forever Greatful" Evil doesn't necessarily mean counter productive to society. Just give them an evil out s

If they are just jerkey evil, doing evil because evil is fun than make them pay the consequences. They slaughter a village sick the uber paladin attack squad on their butts.

Keep the laws on their heels like the criminals they are put their face everywhere on wanted posters. Never a second peace unless they want to live like wild animals in the wilderness. than have the local ranger/druid hilly drum circle learn there is a band of pillaging murderes in their midst. Basically if they play jerky mc chaotic evil von stupid make such an act not fun for them.


Actually an Evil partyis really easy to motivate. Greed or self-preservation or simple bickering. Funny thing about evil, it tends to fight with itself as much as against good (Look at how Devils, Demons, Daemons, and Qlipploth get along...) simply make them work to stop rovagug for their own self preservation (funny thing is, dieties of EVERY alignment actually helped to seal Rovagug in the first place... because even a CE deity prefers existance over self-destruction...

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Advice / help I've got an evil party All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.