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Goblin Squad Member. Organized Play Member. 105 posts (106 including aliases). 3 reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 10 Organized Play characters. 1 alias.


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Sovereign Court

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I've seen different things in regards to a low charisma. There are definitely ways to play a low charisma character that adds personality to them and to your story, charisma is malleable as are people just have to play it in the right way.

For some it is lack of personality; A laconic, dull or shy person who makes little impact on the world around them. They might talk to you at a party and an hour later you couldn't remember their name. Which is what it sounds like your player is going for. A bland person with a lacking personality does work but the player themselves might find it boring after a while.

For some it is simply physical beauty; ugly scars, burn marks, deformities that despite whatever articulation they might have simply leave a person uneasy.

Another way is an off-putting personality or lacks in social recognition; Someone without personal space boundaries, creepy stalker types, overly bubbly over sharing types.

Sovereign Court

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Raging Vitality for sure.
The risk is that at 6th level with 14 con you will almost certainly die if you go into negatives. In addition since you have dipped a level you will not be doing more than 1 additional damage per hit from arcane strike until 7th anyway.

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For APs backstories mean very little. Usually just a need to incorporate something into your character. The only ones I'd say where I feel a backstory would be useful is campaigns in one location like Kingmaker or Curse because you are in a known location for a long period of time where background items can come up.

For home game a backstory needs to be worked through with a gm to ensure that it suits the world.

As a GM you should make sure to more reward a character for a background more than punish them. If you keep kidnapping their family or screwing them up using their background then they won't submit another one. This isn't to say you can't exploit their backgrounds but you need to balance it with some rewards.

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Funnily enough the only places I have felt leadership appropriate are things like games where you own or run something.

IE Kingmaker. It makes sense for the party to get leadership there as the cohort is in town doing your duties while you are out and you would have followers. It is the same with Skull and Shackles you can have a pirate ship which needs crew. If you are good (or more than likely Evil!!! MUHUWAHAHA) you can get multiple ships and having leadership be for your other ships to indicate players to manage those ships makes a good deal of sense.

Leadership really seems out of place when the party is just a bunch of murderhobos why would someone be following you?

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I've wanted to stab a pc more than once. Examples:

Using the wizard and cleric as cover against the large creature is not a nice action Mr Rogue especially after you spent the first half of the session having your character call ours pansies. I admit to some spiteful snickering when the giant criticaled you in the round after when you moved out of cover from behind the dwarf cleric.

For the love of god Mr Ranger stop using the greater rod of wonder! You opened a gate to Hell on round 1 then thought using it again would fix it? That gate to the Maelstrom and to the Boneyard you helped open really didn't help our level 9 party deal with the gate to Hell and its Ice Devil.

I know you want to fight Mr Paladins but I didn't just spend time opening a lock for the party to sneak in for one of you to walk down the corridor demanding people come out and face you while the other paladin threw open another door starting multiple encounters. My character spits at you from his grave as the only death of that bit of stupidity (though only the sorcerer was actually standing at the end).

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Mine are a bit subjective but the main thing I look for in a class is flexibility and choice. I hate being locked into a concept

Oracles: Revelations and curses keep it feeling fresh every time. Please paizo release some more curses though
Barbarian: Despite the amount of AM SMASH Barbarians there is some nice variety in the class
Witch: Hexes make the DM groan and party cheer
Bard: I'm helping!
Medium: Like I said I love flexibility
Shaman: Well I like oracles and witches and flexibility so I feel this is a gimme
Druid: Rawr!
Alchemist: Hehhehehhehehhee! Booom!
Kineticist: Like the flavour and with constant drip feeding of ability choices I always have something to look forward to
Inquisitor: I always have the right tools at my disposal

Bottom 10
Cleric: All your choices are done at 1st level other than spells and feats you never change
Magus: For the love of God can we please stop having shocking grasp scimitar magus
Gunslinger: Not a fan of guns and if you don't want guns then tough luck with this class
Fighter: If I give other classes crap for only giving feat choices well then...
Swashbuckler: Like the gunslinger it is locked into a concept and stuck there hard. It is good at it but gets little else
Vigilante: Great flavour but damn is it hard to work into any campaign that isn't stationary
Antipaladin: Welp there goes the party
Hunter: Doesn't have enough unique features to make it worthwhile. Teamwork feat list pretty much means it needs to be melee.
Summoner: Just too damn strong and most I have encountered run exactly the same character.
Cavelier: Wait several of my class features rely on my mount why are we constantly in dungeons with 5 ft corridors!

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Snowlilly wrote:
Kobolds - lots of kobolds, and traps.

Friend of mine did that. My recommendation for him to inflict on the party was the acid splash bidets since the kobolds didn't care about the acid damage and it gets those scales smooth and clean.

Also for the OP might I suggest using the internet to look up some Japanese tv shows. Takeshi's castle for one would offer you some lovely (horrible) ideas for your people.

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Heh I don't think you are crazy I did the same thing only it was Kobold inquisitor into Dragon Disciple (Kobolds of Golarian book. Highly recommend for this sort of idea) but that was before bloodrager was around.

It is doable and fun but the thing to check is with your DM and Party. Is it viable for a kobold to be part of the party and will the party be okay with a slightly ill optimized front liner.

I do agree with Claxon Str rather than dex focus works better here.

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Tali Wah wrote:

Do you get the natural attacks of the creature?

If so, what does selecting "Claws of the Beast" for "Agathion Blessing" do after 4th level?
Since it says, "as appropriate to his animal identity, you wouldn't gain extra natural attacks.

Depending on beast form the damage from the claws of the beast might actually increase the base damage. 1d8 bite is better than most animals of that size

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Dylos wrote:

They have to be applicable choices for the creature you choose, you are just limited to how many options you get.

At least that is the way that I read it.

I'd Probably rule it that way too. I do dislike the limitations of only small and medium creatures if only because the Agathion races we have been given are Fox, Lion and Avian and you can't make a lion Agathiel.

I'd say best animal given the restrictions might be leopard as you would at least get a chance to use all the beast shape ability points.

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2 people marked this as FAQ candidate.
Belabras wrote:
Looking over the new Agathiel archetype in the Spymaster book, I'm confused about how this is supposed to work with player equipment. At 4th level it gets a kind of wildshape (so I would assume equipment disappears when the vigilante enters that form) but before then does the vigilante just roam around like Puss-in-boots as an animal wearing clothes and using weapons? Is that true AFTER 4th level?

The way I read it from Level 1-3 you might put on a mask of that animal and wear clothes in the pelt of that animal to make you look that that animal rather than turning into one. After 4th you turn into an animal but keep all equipment.

The thing that makes me curious is the beast shape effects. It doesn't state that we get an ability from that animal on the beast shape list. It says "the vigilante can select two abilities provided by beast shape" Does that mean I can turn into a dog with grab and trip or a leopard who can fly?

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Not in RAW as far as I know but I would figure the dex lowering would work like a harmless spell. You allow yourself to fail the defense against the attack. The person making the bullrush would still need to make a good check but I picture it like selling a wrestling move in that the other person is deliberately opening themselves up for the hit.

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Baval wrote:
Not a feat, but there has never been a better time to be a Monk or other MAD class. Id take the opportunity, if you can.

I was looking at an unchained monk as a possibility. I am still slated as the Front Liner so I need to do a full BAB class.

Paladin is out because my last beatstick character was one and I want something different.

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A friend is running a Rise of the runelords campaign and gave everyone an assigned role and I got Front Liner. I decided on running a Dwarf Fighter Sensate (From Occult Adventures) "My Beard Sense is tingling!"

We were rolling stats and since this was the first time I ever rolled stats, massive beginners luck ensued. My stat block is 17 17 17 15 14 13.

Given I am doing a two handed beatstick build and am going full fighter, I have a lot of freedom with my feats. I was wondering about odd ball feats that have a high entrance requirement since I might actually be able to pull them off.

For Example:
Redirect Attack: Dex 15, Int 15, Dodge
Once per turn, when an opponent only you threaten fails an attack against you, you can redirect the attack to target another foe.

I'm looking for interesting feat ideas that can work just due to this stat block that I will likely never see again.

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CommandoDude wrote:

Wand of Infernal Healing > Wand of CLW.

Every time.

Except in combat or to emergency stabilize someone as it has a three round cast time. Out of combat absolutely infernal healing unless paladins ensue.

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General advice:

Try to arrange to do kingdom book keeping out of session over email or something. There can be a lot of arguing there and it can cut out some time in session. Though I suggest doing the first lot in session so you can see for yourself how it all flows.

In the end having the right stats in nice but if your GM is flexible and you role play well enough I don't see why any person can't be the leader even an npc.

Remember you will be out in the wilderness a lot. Survival is a good skill as well as keeping track of how much stores of goods you have. The nearest shop might be 4-5 days travel away.

You are in for the long haul here. The game could take years of in game time to complete. Keep track of your age especially with animal companions. Your cavalier might need to switch mounts depending on how long the campaign goes. But it also means you have a lot of time for item crafting.

In keeping with that last piece. You are in for a long haul so your characters will have downtimes to pursue their own interests. Try to have a few non combat things your character likes doing. I had a bard who was writing the tale of the kingdom. He had two versions one with the full real accounts which was kept under lock and key as it contained state secrets and one 'bardic' version. It gives the dm more plot hooks to keep the game alive

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azraiel wrote:
I'm guessing that's a reference to Rise of the Runelords, alair. Without revealing spoilers, what to do with creatures that are inherently evil but presently helpless is a popular moral dilemma to throw at PC's.

I can't remember what it was from

In case of actual spoilers:
but my character had just died in a goblin dungeon and the DM put my new character in getting chewed on in a goblin nursery. Since my new character was morally dubious and rather vengeful he burned them all alive as soon as he got his spell component pouch back. That got on the paladins nerve when he heard about it.
Qaianna wrote:
Something for our group to look forward to. At least our LN cleric and CN barbarian can have an interesting discussion.

We had a group once with a paladin of all evil must be SMASHED! and a paladin of Sarenrae all about redemption. Watching two LG characters yell at each other in and out of combat was quite amusing.

P sar "Why did you kill those monsters they could have been redeemed?!"
P SMASH *boggles* "They just attacked a caravan and killed people!"
P sar "And look at their lair. They were starving and desperate."
and on and on

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kobold cleaver wrote:
Considering what they do to goblin babies, I don't think we should allow adventurers anywhere near children.

As long as your children aren't trying to eat you I can't imagine why roving bands of adventurers would be murdering them

thejeff wrote:
Personally, I prefer "adventurers" to be few and far between, so having a PC being the child of one doesn't really occur to me. I don't think I've ever used the "retired adventurer" trope either.

I think it tends to come up in pre written stuff more often

1. It lets players think about an 'after' for their adventurers
2. It gives a reason for strong people to be in the back end of no where to keep up with players. Though sometimes it leads to a question of why the 9th level wizard and cleric aren't teaming up with the 4th level ranger to get rid of the nearby goblin issue.

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Something my friends and I discussed in our last roleplaying session is that retired adventurers almost never have children. We had run into two now who had no wife or children and it made us think. In almost every game we have played if there is a retired adventurer they do not have any children. Most are usually running a business.

We also discussed the fact that no one had ever really played the child of an adventurer or even grand child. Mechanically I understand this, after all what dm would want a character whose parent or grandparent is a 12th level barbarian running about. When the gang you have been attacking strikes back at you in the night and then your dad chain lightnings all of them in one round you don't really feel like the hero. Yet we were surprised with the realization that it never really been done in our group.

Even in just a background sense the idea is interesting. Trying to live up to their legends or even resenting that you are constantly compared to them trying to break out from their shadow. Maybe your character didn't even want to be an adventurer but it was hard to argue with grandma and her +2 greatsword training you every morning, telling you that back in her day she took out 50 goblins before breakfast so don't be complaining.

So has anyone ever been the child of an adventurer? Did it cause any major issues in the campaign? Do you have any fun or interesting stories to share? Do you think lots of magical healing makes people sterile and that is why adventurers rarely seem to have children? Got any theories

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Well then the main thing to keep track of is that you are an animal. This makes you immune to some spells (ie hold person or charm person) and vulnerable to others (Hide from animals).

Basically druids and rangers can ruin your day while other casters won't be able to touch you with save or suck (or some buffs) until high levels.

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Well a few issues come to mind.

1) You are a leopard unless you are with a party most townsfolk are going to be freaked out if you wander about without your 'handler'

2) Are you an animal or magical beast for spell casting?

3) You might have some issues with gearing yourself after all goblins aren't the most sharing of folks, you are unlikely to find gear you can use and shopping might be an issue

4)How would you handle wands or material components and foci?

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Name: Udyr Kalaris

Race (ethnicity): Undine

Why your character should like to join a pirate crew (short... or not, your choice): Raised in a coastal town he was an aspiring chef. But you serve one bad oyster dish and accidentally giving food poisoning to an important visitor and suddenly he was persona non grata everywhere in town. Down on his luck and utterly lost now that his dreams had been crushed he signed himself up on the first ship that would have him.

When that ship left it was the first time he ever left his hometown and it opened his eyes to a new world. He wasn't the freaky fish guy here, (well he was but people appreciated that aboard ships) he was valued for turning slop into food and a man who can dive under a ship and fix holes under the surface is always appreciated on board.

Since then he has been on many ships, been on both pirate ships and merchant vessels always looking towards the horizon for the next new place.

Your character in one sentence: A happy go lucky cook with a deep sense of adventure.

Build: Druid (undine Adept) 6
1st - Ocean(water) domain, nature sense, wild empathy, Hydraulic Maneuver
2nd - Amphibious
3rd - Augment Summoning (water subtype only), Combat Casting
4th - Resist Water's Call
5th - Weapon Finesse
6th - Wild Shape
Additional feats:

Key pieces of gear (magical or not; apart from the Big Six): MW chef knives, A collection of herb plants that he grows

Udyr has no issue working with or under cooks unless they are sloppy or incompetent. He enjoys what he does and tries to bring a smile onto even the most dreary ship. The value of a crew member who can swim fast and can breath underwater are numerous thus he never has much trouble finding a ship (or leaving one he doesn't like)

combat and other notes:
Udyr prefers to stay out of combat but if forced his preference is to use his surge domain power to knock people overboard where he will have advantage or use hydraulic push to trip,disarm or otherwise disable opponents. His spell list consists largely of spells to assist the crew and ship (wood shape or wood warp, cure light, call lighting [for targeting opposing ships wheel operators, hard to keep your ship on course when you keep getting struck with lightning], water breathing, etc)

This was the build I used for a actual skull and shackles game that sadly fell apart. He ended up captain by default as every other player was unconscious or didn't want the role so he took charge while they were in recovery and the crew got used to their new freaky fish captain before anyone could really object.

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Mark Seifter wrote:
Yup! Sensate is pretty awesome that way.

Well that is good to hear. I like the sensate as it is a versatile fighter archetype. The base fighter is utterly flexible with their weapons and armor while almost all the other archetypes are so specialized that they demand specific builds.

The sensate can work well with a dex or str focus (though dex helps that evasion), can work well with almost any weapon since centered senses boosts every weapon, it bolsters the fighters major weak spot, and gives them some very useful class skills for feeling like they are accomplishing something with their 2 skill points.

Usually when I am playing the front liner for a party I try not to specialize too heavily so I can run with whatever loot we find so adding another fighter archetype that is free flowing gives me some more options.

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I really like the look of this archetype and am interested in giving it a go in a game I am in.

However there is one thing I am unsure of at that is the Centered Senses ability. It doesn't state a length merely that it requires a move action to enter and a sensate loses his centered state if he gains the confused, dazed, fascinated, staggered, or stunned condition; falls unconscious; or fails a Will save.

So if I am reading this right you don't leave the state unless one of these conditions occur? Does this mean I can get up in the morning enter the centered state and stay that way until I go to bed (or get one of the other conditions)?

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Okay some tips for this:

If you want max damage a Belt of Mighty hurling should be your goal. However you will have issues hitting until you can get this without a reasonable dex. However with this and a level of Hurler Barbarian you have a 40ft range increment

Generally rocks are considered improvised weapons(check with your gm again to see if they rule on your proficiency) so get throw anything and catch off guard along with the trait of Surprise Weapon.

If your GM considers you proficient and that they aren't improvised ask about Weapon Master Fighter. I specialize in rocks!

Also note the rocks are fragile as weapons (see special materials in ultimate combat) so you can use the disposable weapon feat to make sure you crit.

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Why did I become this class and how does this effect me?

Almost every oracle I've played has a large part of their backstory revolve around their curse.

Why am I adventuring?
I have (likely) over 100 gold most people not in big cities live on coppers a week. Why am I not living the high life why am I going out murderhoboing?

Remember that lawful people don't always have to be someone who follows the actual laws they can be people who follow their own code of honor. By deciding on this and writing up a set of laws for yourself it can spell out their entire philosophy on life and thus you can extrapolate their backstory from it

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Hi Mark,

Repeating my questions from a while ago:

The Beating: The beating stats that all allies in melee are considered flanking with its intermediate ability, for the purposes of teamwork feats do they all count as flanking with you as I have a heavy teamwork Medium build in mind.
Similarly with the supreme ability do you count as flanking with yourself?
Does dissolution require you to deal damage to apply this effect, as I read it I only need to hit?

The Liar: What is the duration of infatuation? Does it end if I swap spirits or do I have a bunch of people stalking me forever waiting for sempai to notice them?

It does currently seem like the strength spirits are giving methods of attack, either by granting new attack options or weapon proficiency. Though I would like to see one of them that is useful for ranged combatants.

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You know the more that people complain about the medium not feeling like a medium the more I think that the Spiritualist and Medium should have their names changed over.

The Medium currently is channeling various spirits into themselves with no real control over them. Though Possessed, Channeled or Ridden would also work as names. I admit in part I think an oracle curse like system would have worked rather than the influence system but we don't want to crib from existing classes.

The spirtualist is in constant contact with a spirit, calm them as class abilities. Just add speak with dead to their spell list since they already have speak with haunt and spirits and its a medium

EDIT: I would say thinking about it a little more that as the mechanics current work, the medium is someone in contact with spirit world but not in control of the spirits. They are a conduit through which spirits can influence the world. Spirits both good and bad wish to use the medium for their own ends.

Also again I wish this mechanic hadn't already been used but I feel like with that idea in mind the Master Chymists Mutagenic Form is what this class is trying to get across with the influence system. A whole other aspect with their own alignment and relationships. Since that didn't require complete control taken away from the player I think that within reason there should be no reason a player shouldn't be able to continue roleplaying their possessed character.

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Reading through the playtest those two classes and the spiritualist felt the most off and in need of work which leads people to come in with their opinions on how to fix it. Everyone wants these classes to be fun, interesting and most of all playable so the more broken they are the more people are going to want to fix them.

Occultist is pretty much ready to go other than an updated spell list. It is a great representation of a caster using implements to focus their power

Mesmerist sticks hard to its theme and you can easily see what is trying to do. Again I felt not much had to change for it to be good to go.

Psychic basically is ready to go out the door. It just needs more psychic spells which are being held back for the actual release and more disciplines.

Whereas the spiritualist feels like a toned down summoner archetype. It inspires with its theme but its mechanics are copy pasted from the summoner with a reduction in power. It needs to find its own niche. The developers need to step back and ask what role is this intended to fill in the party.

The Medium is a huge amount of potential in a slow and hindered package. Again the theme is strong in this one but people are trying to improve, streamline and simplify what looks to be an interesting flexible late game class with currently poor mechanics. It provides something that currently nothing else can achieve so people are interested in seeing it succeed.

The Kineticist excites people due to its theme but lacks punch in what people are seeing as its niche. People have said over and over again that this lets them do something that they couldn't do otherwise. This investment makes people want it to succeed and if the mechanics were good the thread would be character builds left right and center but they don't seem to add up so people are trying to find a way to make it work.

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Condolences Mark.

Some questions for you to look at when you are more up to it:

The Beating: The beating stats that all allies in melee are considered flanking with its intermediate ability, for the purposes of teamwork feats do they all count as flanking with you as I have a heavy teamwork Medium build in mind.
Similarly with the supreme ability do you count as flanking with yourself?
Does dissolution require you to deal damage to apply this effect, as I read it I only need to hit?

The Liar: What is the duration of infatuation? Does it end if I swap spirits or do I have a bunch of people stalking me forever waiting for sempai to notice them?

The Bear: Not sure with the way it is reading but once you get the third tier ability are you adding two size categories on top of the intermediate ability? That would make a medium Medium from a large Medium to a gargantuan Medium which would pose a lot of issues adventuring or moving around town. Maybe an ability to turn the size on and off with a action.

Spellcasting: Since you have access to the spells from first level that means that your caster level is equal to your level or level - 3 when you start getting spell casting ability?

Some more opinions
The Twins: It feels thematic but the first ability requires you to use a very limited resource just to have it do anything and the second has no effect until you are up to triune spirit. I think it needs a nice secondary effect to make up for the fact that this is not worth taking until later

Desert: Shouldn't the deserts end effect be until the end of that characters next turn? If someone removes a status effect from me that has almost certainly used their standard action for the turn meaning this effect only would help on attack of opportunities.

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I think the class skills on Pain and Tranquility could change.

Diplomacy strikes me more as the tranquility option since they would be advocating calm and peace rather than tracking and survival.

Pain I'm not as sure about. You get power from pain which can be intimidating as someone laughs and seems to enjoy the more damage you do but at the same time I see it as someone who takes anything and comes out the other end alive indicating heal (patching oneself up) or survival (just downright living in even the harshest of conditions)

I could totally see playing a lore psychic and taking perform impression to replicate overheard conversations with voice acting.

I hope to see more disciplines to see what comes out of this class.

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We've had people talk about Harry Dresden and the Mandarin and I had a similar image of Thanos holding the infinity gauntlets with each gem having a power. I could see precious gems being an enchantment focus

I kind of feel like this is a class that is going to need a bandoleer to carry their implements with.

I do like the spells but item type idea but understand the desire to simplify by just having them use the established schools. Either would be fine with me.

I would like that however much you charged an item it would stay at that level even if you used effects from it. I can see cases where people won't want to use points from their focus items because they will lose their bonuses.

The spell list needs some tweaking to match up to the supplied abilities which people have already mentioned.

Overall I like the flavor and it feels variable in its role while still allowing focus giving players options. I do feel that classes have failed when there is one clear best build there should be variety and a desire to experiment and I feel like this class has those options once it gets tweaked

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nighttree wrote:

I have no problem with the number of spirits..would rather not see them decreased, and would hope that others would be added over time.

Not a fan of the idea of increasing BA....I'm fine with pinch hitting as melee with a Medium...but would hate to loose flexibility by it becoming the expected party role.

I think the problems people have with the class is that:

a) All other 4 level spellcasters (Bloodrager, Paladin, Ranger) are full bab d10 classes. It breaks the current precedent set by other classes.

I think people would be okay with it being 6 level spellcasting rather than BAB but I admit I would like one of the psychic classes to be the 'Front line' Class and with Medium armor and 4 spell level progression it fits that niche. Though if it did go full BAB I would support switching the attack bonus from strength to a CMB bonus so it is not just the obvious choice.

b) The Class is back loaded. Levels 1-7 are a bit of a drag.

This again plays into the increase BAB / Spellcasting just to give it more staying power. Another option would be to give the spirits 3+CHA per day abilties but it is already looking like a bit of book filler with content so adding more would not be a great idea

c) WALL OF TEXT! ZOMG 54 spirits

I can understand the argument. With 54 spirits each with 4 powers, boon, spellcasting, description, bonus and compulsion that is a lot of text. However like most I like the idea of a lot of options for my class so to me this is fine but I do understand the argument and I think Mark might get attacked by the Editor (CR 30 Book God) regarding spacing issue.

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Stephen Radney-MacFarland wrote:

Alair223 wrote:

What happens to equipment that the phantom is wearing if it is recalled or sent to the ethereal plane does it just fall to the floor as the phantom fades away?


I can definitely see some GM's diabolically rubbing their hands together at that response

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Flavor is an A+ on this class, just looking through the forum you can taste the excitement.

However the issue I find is sadly mechanical in nature. This class feels rather summonerish only toned down to the point where someone only takes it for flavor.

The Phantom is rather subpar when compared to both an animal companion and the Eidolon for melee combat. Given the fact that you are boosting DEX and CHA I would like to see spirits focused more on SU or spell like abilities and ranged effects that play off its ever increasing DC's.

Trying to make this phantom more combat based will just turn it into an archetype of the summoner and that is something I think we all would like to avoid.

Regarding the manifestations I think the shield should scale up by +2 each time you get a new ability otherwise it is almost useless since you can use light armor without issues anyway since I didn't notice that psychic magic has arcane spell chance failure. Also I feel like these should be minute per day not round per day. EDIT: Also I wouldn't mind seeing a higher level ability of this if it switches to minutes per level that allows use of phantom powers. IE useable for 1/rd a level each round using a minute of the regular bond time you could use Fear's aura effect. This activation uses the phantoms DC's and any payment effects must also be paid for by the phantom ie aura rounds. If the phantom cannot use the ability while incorporeal or doesn't have any uses left of the ability the action is wasted

What happens to equipment that the phantom is wearing if it is recalled or sent to the ethereal plane does it just fall to the floor as the phantom fades away?

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I'll say that reading through this book I feel that it has flavor absolutely oozing out of every pore (probably should get that looked at).

I look at the flavor of these classes and I can see building a class around them even with some of their sub par mechanics (A discussion for class threads).

As long as the time is taken to get the mechanics right I feel like this could be the most interesting core release for quite a while.

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Just one more thing Mark. Why the influence system rather than using something like Ego which was already established in magic items?

I understand you wanted a quantifiable tool for measuring control and a resource for using abilities. I just think that tracking influence levels will be something that will be a little bit annoying at later levels when you are throwing around a lot of spirits.

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When a spirit goes to 4 or more influence with you what is it reduced down to the next day? Is it 3 or is it the once per day reduction meaning if you got to say 5 influence you would be controlled for 2 days?

The class is already fairly text heavy but with the 0-4 influence scale I wouldn't mind a slight tweak where 0-1 is little to no influence, 2 is slightly influenced, 3 is severe influence then 4 is loss of control.

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A few comments:

A agree with everyone else that the class needs a boost. Either Full BAB and good Fort or increase to 6 level casting. Just something to give it some oomph.

I feel that the charisma ones are a bit lackluster. Losing the spirit boon means that if you pick charisma it needs to be your primary spirit or nothing. I don't quite feel that the powers provided stack up as well for losing that boon benefit.

Also an idea might be to change the way that you recharge. If for some reason I can't get 8 hours rest and an hour to meditate I lose ALL my class abilities. I can't even trance because I have no spirits riding me. Even casters get to keep any spells they didn't use from the previous day this seems a bit harsh.
I'm not sure how to balance it. Maybe after 24 hours all spirits still inhabiting you get an additional +1 to their influence if this would push multiple spirits to 4 then it goes in order of Primary, secondary, etc. This would be because you haven't completed your meditation to put up mental walls to prevent your mind being influenced.

With regards to the spirits will your own alignment have any effect on what spirits you can choose?

I feel that this class has AMAZING roleplaying potential. However I feel that mechanically it's not quite there yet.

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MadE wrote:
A half orc level 10 fighter does have 11 feats right? And not 10?

1st, fighter 1, fighter 2, 3rd, fighter 4, 5th, fighter 6th, 7th, fighter 8th, 9th, fighter 10th

So yes 11 feats for a core nonhuman fighter. You should have level +1 feats

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thegreenteagamer wrote:
Spiked armor usually covers the "swallow whole" gamut nicely.

True. Depends on the way the character goes. I typically don't have the armor spikes if I am playing good face characters.

Though if you are planning on getting heavy armor make sure you also own an armored coat. You never know when you will have a raid at night where you can't put on that lovely full plate.

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Errant_Epoch wrote:
Leveling guide list

No improved critical?

Also with regards to the OP Fighter is a nice simple class that you can build any way you like for combat. I suppose the question to ask is what kind of fighter do you want to build?

Are you upfront with a two handed weapon? Then Errant_Epoch or Greenteagamer have provided some good advice. Just remember to also have a light slashing weapon as you are in the level range for swallow whole to be an issue.

Are you planning to fire arrows from afar? Are you going for the traditional sword and shield? If so those require different builds and feats. Some more information about what you want to do is nice.

Also remember the mundane gear. It's nice to have your flashy +2 sword but that won't help you sleep outdoors like a winterblanket or tent will. Sure the wizard can cast fly to get you out of that pit trap or you could throw a rope up to your allies if you aren't in combat. You could try to remember your way out or you could mark corridors with a piece of chalk. Mundane gear is often forgotten.

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noble peasant wrote:
Varying stuff

Thanks for the advice noble. I guess I should have been clearer. I am not planning to fall (However another paladin in the same game is skating on the line) and the options I gave already is where he would likely end up in case of a fall.

I meant this as a more generic question to provide advice to anyone thinking about or is in heavy danger of falling the options they have in rebuilding their character back up from the ashes of a fall.

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Have a sit down with the player and let him know that what he has been doing has been disrupting the table. Let him know what it is that the group is wanting to do or gain out of playing there. He may decide to change to suit or he may say that isn't what he wants to play.

Give him a chance to mend his ways as I have seen someone like this change into a very decent roleplayer.

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I had a couple of ideas for a game I did once. I suggest you preroll your NPC results:

Log cutting:
Players are given an option of two mw handaxes or a mw greataxe. In 10 rounds they have to see how many logs they can cut through. 2 Hardness 10hp logs with 5ac. Move action to place a new log. Winner is the one who cuts the most logs and gets their choice of the mw handaxe or greataxe

Players take a swig of alcohol DC 5 con check then have to walk across a weaving line which is fairly easy sober being a dc 5 acrobatics check to maintain balance then take another drink and walk back and continue. Each time you take a drink the DC of both goes up by 2. Failing the con check means you are either puking up your guts or passed out drunk and are eliminated. Failing the acrobatics check you step (or stagger as the case may be) over the line and are eliminated. Winner is the last one standing. Prize can be some nice alcohol

Card playing:
Basically a poker tournament. Winner takes all. Players have to make a bluff check and sense motive check plus a single extra d10 for luck. Person with the highest result wins. Prize would be money obviously

Archery competition:
It's in every medieval carnival/festival so you might as well put it in as well. Everyone uses the same bow (large and small provided) to hit a target. Give multiple AC's for various points on the target and that's where they hit. 5 arrows for the highest score. Prize can be a nice mw bow for the show of skill

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Given the amount of threads out there regarding paladin falling for practically everything other than scratching their nose and currently playing a paladin and having through through this myself.

I thought I would bring up the question: "How do you move on after you've fallen?"

Getting a atonement might seem like the most simple way but if the paladin willingly chooses to fall and doesn't want to hop back on that pain train what are the best options for retraining your now fallen knight?

For one whom fell from good but not from law a Cavalier or samurai is an option (especially if you took the bonded mount). Choosing to follow a new code that might be less restrictive than your old one while maintaining your martial training to the fullest.

For one whom fell from law then Bloodrager with the celestial bloodline is a fitting change. Especially for one whom without their laws and god restricting them have let their anger run wild.

Of course the obvious fall all the way to Antipaladin is there but most GM's would be telling you to hand over your character sheet due to issues with evil characters and party dynamic.

Any other ideas?

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I generally find the major issue is how they portray their character.

I kept finding in games that a lot of players who played the opposite gender tended to be playing a sexual fantasy, the shirtless male glistening with sweaty muscles (Do you not own shirts?) vs the stick thin female with large BREASTS (that have their own gravity given the way some describe them and yes the caps is appropriate in those cases). Both are uncomfortable to deal with on the table. Not to mention the player who played a character with profession dominatrix.

If the player is actually playing a character and not just some sexualised object then it doesn't tend to be as much of an issue. Gender and looks are just part of a character and when played as such I think most people don't have an issue with it.

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Most of the people I play with tend not to make overly stupid mistakes but there were a few.

Story the first:

The first involved a paladin who had received a mission to save slaves. Sounds easy enough so after investigating we find the kidnapped people underground in a derro lair. While the barbarian/rogue is carefully picking the locks on the cages the paladin is gleefully killing all of the weak mites attacking us.

This continued on throughout the adventure with the paladin killing around 85% of all the mites due to them being so much weaker than us that the rest of the party (cleric, barb and ranger) didn't bother.

Cue to the final boss fight where the paladin's player re-reads his faction mission and reads out that it said that "even evil creatures deserve a chance at freedom" and realizes in horror that his paladin had been slaughtering the very creatures he had been meant to save.

Needless to say he failed his mission.

Story the second:

The second is more player stupidity than epic failing. The group consisted of a paladin, barbarian, sorc, cleric and one other. The 7 wis, 7 int sorcerer had proceeded to show a secret message he received to anyone he could (since he was an incredible gossip) resulting in plenty of people seeing the message and who we were working for at the time. The paladin took the message off the sorc but not before the damage had been done and the groups trust in their newly met sorc went straight into the outhouse.

During the adventure we found some incriminating documents on the table after a fight and the sorc demanded to see them. The paladin announced that they were of sensitive nature and the sorc couldn't be trusted with the documents. The sorcerer declared that he HAD to see the documents. Once again the paladin denied the sorc and the sorcerer player declared that he was casting burning hands on the paladin.

This brought the table up short, total silence. The DM asked was the player sure about that and he said he was. The barbarian who had been next to the sorc cleaning his greatsword asked again, was he sure, and the player still declared that they were. The barbarian player asked if he was casting defensively which the sorcerer was not. The barbarian proceeded to take a nonlethal attack of opportunity, he crit and confirmed resulting in taking the sorc into negatives due to rollover from nonlethal.

The cleric cast stabilize and the party put his unconscious body into the loot sack and carried him through the rest of the dungeon. After which he was dumped at the inn and ooc was suggested to tone the character down or design another one.

The player decided that the character had burnt too many bridges on his introduction and brought in something else.

Story the third spoilers for RotRL book 1:

Our intrepid party consisted of a cavalier (cockatrice order), a alchemist, a barbarian/oracle, a sorcerer and another character which I can't remember at the moment.

After clearing the goblin menace from the town the group realized that they had to go through a large bramble batch in order to get to the goblin den. The cavalier refused to leave his noble mount behind and proceed to charge through the thorny vines blindly.

He cleared a path straight through the thorny patch... to the cliff edge which his horse rode straight over. The falling damage knocked both unconscious. The barbarian dove off the cliff and stayed awake channeling positive energy which woke up the cavalier but not his mount. The cavalier dove under the water to try and get his mounts head above water

The alchemist used their touch of the sea potion and dove off afterwards hoping to use their extracts to help and proceeded to take nearly maximum damage from the fall and almost dying on impact. The sorc and other character were just standing there wondering what the heck just happened while the goblins were laughing their green backsides off from their own vantage point.

The barbarian/oracle proceeded to channel again which woke up the horse but not the alchemist so the cavalier and horse swam to shore while the barbarian carried the unconscious alchemist to shore.

The cavalier, alchemist, barbarian and other character all retired after that incident for varying reasons.

Story the forth spoilers for RotRL book 1:

The sorcerer from the previous story rounded up a new adventuring group willing to risk their lives to stop the goblin menace. Finding two paladins, a ranger and a inquisitor the group made their way into the castle where the goblins seemed to be using as a base.

Coming across a room with two doors and a corridor proceeding away from them, the ranger carefully leaned down and began picking the lock on one of the doors. This was taking some time (due to a botched roll failing by 4 followed by a successful one) one of the paladins walked over to the other room and heard noises and proceeded to burst into the room while the 2nd paladin proceeded to announce that he started banging on his shield and walked down the corridor between the two rooms challenging the cowardly goblins to come out.

As the lock clicked open unheard in the rangers hands the three remaining party members all facepalmed as now multiple encounters were triggered at the same time. The corridor paladin ended up in a 1 on 1 fight against a fighter while the other paladin burst in on a bugbears harem. The half elf ranger, the sorc and the inquisitor moved to back the (slightly less stupid) paladin at the harem. Unfortunately the bugbear was a ranger with favored enemy elf and elf bane arrows so he took an attack of op from the paladin to target his most hated foe. Proceeding to crit and confirm the ranger was left with only 2 hit points left before death claimed him.

Unfortunately the fighter had knocked out the corridor paladin in this time and charged the inquisitor tying him up while the other paladin was focusing the bugbear so the ranger bled out on the floor. The fight didn't go well with the inquisitor and paladin both being dropped by the fighter before the sorc just managed to take him out.

So sadly due to the paladins acts the innocent ranger lost his life.

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Really it depends on the out of character interactions here.

You can have an evil character who steals from the party as long is everyone is okay with it out of character and acknowledges that there will be in character consequences when they are caught.

However it seems like based off what you have described that the players have out of character problems and this issue is largely escalating. Have a sit down with your players and discuss the issue and if it is causing bad blood then shut that thing down. Remember the goal is to have fun as a group. When one player is having fun at the expense of everyone else you will run into problems.

If players genuinely have a problem with each other out of character then they need to resolve that themselves the DM can't fix that for them. The best you can do there is ask them to keep it out of the game.

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I've done 'target the caster' twice. Once was more about just simple tactics and the other was an elite group specializing in taking out curious adventuring groups.

cut to reduce spammyness:

First was with a group of trolls with an advanced troll leading them who basically beat into their brains "FIRE BAD! KILL DEM GUYS DAT DO FIRE STUFF"
So they targeted the alchemist and magus who used fire on them. However the alchemist was behind a wall of paladin so she was safe. The magus however for some reason thought that sneaking up behind the trolls while invisible with no other backup to use burning hands without hitting his allies was a brilliant move... while on half health... yeah he got eaten.

The other was with a set of basically elite werewolf guards. Their sole duty was to keep people out of their forest. If their 'human' companion couldn't convince hunters/merchants/meddlesome adventurers to leave then they had to make sure that no one survived so getting the caster became priority.
So it was werewolf monk with panther style leads the way knocking down anyone who tries to AOO them and once most of the melee guys were flat on their backs/cautious of AOO then the hidden barbarians came in to say hello. It was a very rough fight. They 'forgot' to use the oil of darkness since it was bad enough already.

As always with bad guy encounters you need to pay attention to their motivations. Why are they there? Why are they willing to fight the party? Thinking about this lets you step into their mindset and from there you can roleplay how they would actually act rather than following set tactics.

Some won't target spellcasters, some would target them almost exclusively. One tactic doesn't always work and shouldn't always be used other than mindless creatures attacking mindlessly

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