
deuxhero |
2 people marked this as FAQ candidate. |
So Pure Legion Enforcer (Inner Sea Combat), manages to disqualify itself AT LEVEL ONE (Requires not being able to cast divine spells, but it gains Detect Evil/Good/Law/Chaos as an SLA at level 1. Also the pure legion is apparently racist because Gnomes and a few other races can't enter).
What happens if you cease to meet the requirements of a prestige class?

Korthis |

Alignment: Any lawful.
Deity: Cannot worship a deity.
Feats: Godless Healing.
Skills: Knowledge (religion) 5 ranks, Sense Motive 4 ranks.
Special: Cannot cast divine spells.
Spell like abilities =/= spells.
You can have all of the spell like abilities (and Su abilities) in the world and still qualify.

deuxhero |
FAQ says SLAs ARE spells for requirements.
Spell-Like Abilities, Casting, and Prerequisites: Does a creature with a spell-like ability count as being able to cast that spell for the purpose of prerequisites or requirements?
Yes.
For example, the Dimensional Agility feat (Ultimate Combat) has "ability to use the abundant step class feature or cast dimension door" as a prerequisite; a barghest has dimension door as a spell-like ability, so the barghest meets the "able to cast dimension door prerequisite for that feat.Edit 7/12/13: The design team is aware that the above answer means that certain races can gain access to some spellcaster prestige classes earlier than the default minimum (character level 6). Given that prestige classes are usually a sub-optimal character choice (especially for spellcasters), the design team is allowing this FAQ ruling for prestige classes. If there is in-play evidence that this ruling is creating characters that are too powerful, the design team may revisit whether or not to allow spell-like abilities to count for prestige class requirements.
Plus it's a question that isn't necessarily exclusive to the class.

Rawrsong |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |

SLA's qualifying as spells has always been the source of a "Spirit of the Law" versus "Letter of the Law" debate around many tables. In this case, I'd tell a player sitting at my table, "Just go with the bloody spirit of the law and stop trying to split hairs".
As far as the Pure Legion being racist, it wouldn't be the first Archetype/Feat/PrC/Ect that was race locked so I see no issue with that. Especially when you consider that most of Rahadoum is made up of god hating humans.

Korthis |

I don't know if this is a thought exercise or if you are trying to use this class or what, but the intentions are pretty clear. They allow SLA to count as spells in order to qualify for prestige classes. This choice was made to allow people to have more (suboptimal) alternatives and give players more choice, not to restrict choice. I doubt any table you go to will argue that the moment you take the class you no longer qualify, but ymmv

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While I agree with Rawrsong's assessmemt of that particular prestige class, the question for debate isn't about the example PRC, it's about what would occur if the requirememts for any PRC are no longer met.
At my table, I would declare a loss of class abilities and no further advancement in the PRC until the situation binding up the character could be resolved, just like I would if a paladin suddenly became non-lawful (for example).

Tels |

A spell-like ability only counts as a divine spell if the spell it mimics is only found on a divine spell list. Otherwise, all spell-like abilities are considered arcane in nature unless the SLA comes from a class feature (like a Domain) in which it is considered to be the same type as the spell list of the class.
Arcane or Divine Spell-like Ability FAQ
So unless the SLA of a race is exclusively a divine spell, then it is considered to be an arcane spell and does not preclude it from taking the prestige class.

Tels |
1 person marked this as FAQ candidate. |

As for the loss of requirements for the prestige class: You would lose all abilities of the class and can't further advance until it has been rectified. Same as if you have a feat like Power Attack that calls for Strength 13 and you also have Cleave/Great Cleave etc. that builds off Power Attack. If you were to suddenly have your strength drained below 13, you would lose access to Power Attack and all following feats.

Chemlak |

Doesn't matter. Prerequisites only apply to your ability to take the first level in a prestige class:
Prestige classes allow characters to become truly exceptional, gaining powers beyond the ken of their peers. Unlike the core classes , characters must meet specific requirements before they can take their first level of a prestige class. If a character does not meet the requirements for a prestige class before gaining any benefits of that level, that character cannot take that prestige class. Characters that take levels in prestige classes do not gain any favored class bonuses for those levels.
I'll admit that the sentence after the one I bolded is a little ambiguous (is it talking about a check each level, or is it a sentence explaining the previous one?), but I think it makes more sense if it's talking about taking your first level in the prestige class, and by the way it's worded once you're in the class, you're in.

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Doesn't matter. Prerequisites only apply to your ability to take the first level in a prestige class:
They also apply later, so for example if you lose a feat required to take the PrC you lose everything except the BAB, saves, and skills.
Also from the FAQ, if you lose the PrC and used the PrC (including BAB, saves, or skills) to qualify for other PrC then you lose them also.
But the OP example isn't a case where the class disqualifies itself.

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I just want to observe, rather nastily, that this is what they get for the SLA ruling. Grr. Arrrgh.
...Now I find myself wondering about the old assassin requirement "must kill a person for no other reason than to become an assassin." If you later pay for the poor schmuck's raise dead, you've undone the effects of the qualifying action... but you still did it. Hmmmmmm.

Ravingdork |

Spell-like abilities are generally considered arcane by default unless there is some reason to believe that the source of their power is divine in nature (such as the spell-like abilities of many celestials and other outsiders that serve deities).
Whether it appears on the cleric spell list or the wizard spell list has nothing to do with it (at least, not for spell-like abilities).

Tels |

Spell-like abilities are generally considered arcane by default unless there is some reason to believe that the source of their power is divine in nature (such as the spell-like abilities of many celestials and other outsiders that serve deities).
Whether it appears on the cleric spell list or the wizard spell list has nothing to do with it (at least, not for spell-like abilities).
That's not true: SLA FAQ.
Racial SLA (like those from an outsider) default to the Sorcerer/Wizard list, then Cleric, Druid, Bard, Paladin, and Ranger in that order. Depending on what spell list it appears on determines the arcane/divine nature of the spell. So if a spell appears on the Sorcerer/Wizard list at all, it's an Arcane SLA.
If a SLA is gained through class features, then it defaults to the spell list of the class if it has one. If it doesn't have a spell list, then it defaults to the Racial SLA determination above.

Ravingdork |

Ravingdork wrote:Spell-like abilities are generally considered arcane by default unless there is some reason to believe that the source of their power is divine in nature (such as the spell-like abilities of many celestials and other outsiders that serve deities).
Whether it appears on the cleric spell list or the wizard spell list has nothing to do with it (at least, not for spell-like abilities).
That's not true: SLA FAQ.
Racial SLA (like those from an outsider) default to the Sorcerer/Wizard list, then Cleric, Druid, Bard, Paladin, and Ranger in that order. Depending on what spell list it appears on determines the arcane/divine nature of the spell. So if a spell appears on the Sorcerer/Wizard list at all, it's an Arcane SLA.
If a SLA is gained through class features, then it defaults to the spell list of the class if it has one. If it doesn't have a spell list, then it defaults to the Racial SLA determination above.
That FAQ does NOT determine whether they are arcane or divine, just which of the spell's rules to use when they differ by class. I know this to be the case because devs have clarified it before.
For example, a monster that has Control Weather as a spell-like ability would NOT increase the radius of the spell as a druid would, because it is treated as a wizard spell for him first. Unless he is a divine servant or some such, his spell-like ability is still considered arcane in nature. (Even if it is considered divine, he would not use the druid version of the spell.)
The devs have been over this before.

Archaeik |
Tels wrote:A spell-like ability only counts as a divine spell if the spell it mimics is only found on a divine spell list.What about exclusive divine spells that appear on a Witch's (an arcane caster) patron spell list but are not otherwise listed as a Witch spell, such as Blessing of Fervour?
If you gain access to the spell from an arcane source (say witch levels), the spell is considered arcane when cast, and vise versa for divine (domain/mystery spells otherwise only on arcane lists are considered divine).

Dekalinder |

You are mistaken ravindork, is the opposite. You use the wiz-cleric-druid ecc gerarchy only to determine if the SLA is arcane or divine in nature. You never gain any of the special class-related variant of the spell when casted as SLA.
This FAQ was issued to rectify the statment that SLA are always arcane unless they do not compare in any of the arcane casting class, meaning that cure light wound would end up being arcane in virtue of being on the witch spell list.
Here is for reference the thread that gave birth to the FAQ.

Tels |

Even if a spell that is divine appears on the Witch spell list, it is still a divine spell unless it appears on the Sorcerer/Wizard list.
Sorcerer/Wizard > Cleric > Druid > Bard > Paladin > Ranger
Even though the Witch has certain divine spells, they are not in the order hierarchy.
So a Blessing of Fervor SLA, even though it's on the Witch list via a patron, is not an Arcane SLA as the Cleric has higher priority than the Witch does.