Oracle > Mysteries > Heavens
Awesome Display (Su):
Each creature affected by your illusion (pattern) spells is treated as if its total number of Hit Dice were equal to its number of Hit Dice minus your Charisma modifier (if positive).
Gnome Oracle 20 chr start - 8th lvl +2 chr, +4 chr headband, Spell focus illusion, Greater spell focus, Heighten spell, rod persistence
Chr= 26 (+8 Bonus) or (-8 levels)
Color Spray(3) DC= 10 + 3 + 8 + 3 = 24 Will Save (roll twice)
If your 12 level or lower (Out of Game, Dead, Useless)
If Piazo F-ing Stupid or do they not see that these abilities kill the balance of the game, I would never play this character, because whats the point of always winning with no chance of failure????? Its like playing with loaded dice that always roll natural 20's! Fun, thrill, yeah! I wonder about the people who look for these one trick wonders, like a 5 year old, kind of pathetic.
Am I the only person that thinks this is incredible Cheese, Unfair, unbalanced, and should be outlawed for Living play.
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You seem angry.
Well for one it is mind affecting, this makes many potential enemies immune, it also has a range of 15 feet. Many enemies will stay out of reach.
While yes this is a powerful combination, and will likely do well in many situations, there are still quite a few in which it will not work. Most DMs will find creative solutions around this problem.
If you are playing PFS you may simply have to remind the player that this is a shared experience if you feel that they are hogging all of the glory.
Indeed. It also only affects creatures who can see. There are many who cannot, and thus are immune.
If someone abuses this combination frequently enough, expect your GM to pit you against undead, plants, constructs, dragons and sightless creatures. (Credit to Cao Phen for most of that!)
Perhaps you should take a step back, have a deep breath, and remember that this game, by virtue of the immense quantity of material and the fact that it was designed by humans, is not perfect. If this single ability insults you so much perhaps you should look elsewhere for entertainment. Otherwise, note it as a candidate for errata-ing and politely push for banning in any home games you are a part of.
Insulting Paizo and acting entitled about a product they have put a lot of time, effort, and love into is not the appropriate response. Paizo is doing its best to address unbalanced abilities that have slipped through the cracks but that is a project which takes time.
It does also apply to Hypnotic pattern and Rainbow Pattern, but given that they're the more mediocre Fascinate effect it's not too overpowered. It allows a level 1 spell to stay relevant until mid-level, adds a bit more power to some situationally useful spells and that's about all.
It's not much worse than an Elf Witch with Slumber. (Opens can of worms and then runs away, giggling)
Cao makes another good point, you are only going to have a 50% chance of getting through the SR of something your lvl (standard SR is CR + 11).
Take a look at a Nabasu (CR 8) who then responds with at mass hold person after you more than likely fail to beat its SR.
Let alone something the equivalent of lvl 12 (CR11 for an SR of 22).
Look at a Hezrou who more than likely resisted your color spray and now more than likely has you grappled and nauseated.
Bottom line is it is a good trick, but there are a lot of ways around it.
I'm not sure if the 15ft range or the number of monsters immune to it is the nastier part.
It's strong, but doesn't do everything.
I think the number of things immune to it is the bigger issue.
You're an oracle, not a wizard. The 15ft range does mean, though, that it isn't going to be hitting very many monsters at once.
Either way, compared to what a time oracle gets? This is pretty minor.
The problem stems exactly from the fact that he is an oracle, not a wizard, though. A spontaneous caster casts this metamagic'd color spray as a full round action. That means he can only 5 foot step to get into position to cast this spell with 15 foot range. Pray there are no allies in the way.
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I'll tell you what, OP.
Make this character. Play this character. THEN you can come and complain about it being OP. Until you've used a concept like this in practice, and seen how enemies and the DM react to it, you can't really make judgements like that.
It reminds me of people who complain about rogues being underpowered.
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It reminds me of people who complain about rogues being underpowered.
The difference being that many people have seen Rogues fail in practice AND theory.
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Y'know, I've had a player who did this exact thing. He was pretty effective and fun as a character, and used this trick viciously and to good effect. He didn't really overshadow the party, though.
Hell, his bog-standard Illusionist (okay, Shadow Subschool, but still) in another game was much more dangerous.
Try playing it before complaining.
If Piazo F-ing Stupid or do they not see that these abilities kill the balance of the game
Oh, they're fully aware, they just don't care all that much.
All you can really do is ban it if you're GMing and grin and bear it if someone else is playing one alongside you.
GMs are not 100% bound to any given adventure path. It's not too hard to substitute in a different CR-equivalent enemy that is immune or resistant to these supposedly overpowered effects.
If this player is annoying your GM and the rest of the party the your GM most definitely has the power to stop it if they understand the system. It doesn't necessarily need to be banned, you might just end up mainly fighting undead and constructs until you're level 12.
GMs are not 100% bound to any given adventure path. It's not too hard to substitute in a different CR-equivalent enemy that is immune or resistant to these supposedly overpowered effects.
If this player is annoying your GM and the rest of the party the your GM most definitely has the power to stop it if they understand the system. It doesn't necessarily need to be banned, you might just end up mainly fighting undead and constructs until you're level 12.
The fact that this ability practically requires the GM to re-write the game is a clear indication that it shouldn't exist.
Oracles still split down fairly even and predictable lines, defined by their choice of archetype and mystery. Any Oracle who doesn't at least consider the ability to channel positive energy from the Life Mystery when facing hordes of Undead in Carrion Crown is a bit dim. Not all will take it, and many will be justified in doing so, but given the number of mentions of undead in the Player's Guide it requires thought.
Know your campaign/adventure path, know your GM and know your enemy before committing to a character.
The fact that this ability practically requires the GM to re-write the game is a clear indication that it shouldn't exist.
It depends on how you define the game. I think of the game as a set of rules that allow a story to be told. An adventure path is a series of suggested encounters and events that make the story. Elements of it can and should be subject to change depending on the party invlved. If you have a Gnome Heavens Oracle who acts as a one-Gnome deathsquad then by all means change things up. You'd do the same if it was any other one-trick-pony build.
No ... any other overpowered build, I'd do the same thing; nerf it or ban it.
Weak? The fact at 1st level you'd have at minimum 5d6 of channeling with DC 15 for 1/2 leads me to believe you're just theory crafting and have never actually played or looked at the AP.
How is a 1st level Oracle channeling for 5d6? Even with the FCB it's only +1/2 a level, meaning you see no effect before 2nd, and even then it'd only be 2d6 not 5d6.
And isn't that +1/2 of a POINT, not a die?
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Now, if you were a Life Oracle with the Legalistic Curse, as well as a Cleric with the Whimsy Domain, rolled to Channel Energy, get a 5/6 on the Whimsical Channel, Rolled a 6 on the number of Extra Dice, and then used Legalistic Morale Bonus to a single roll, you would be seeing:
1d6 Base
6d6 Whimiscal Channel
4d6 Legalistic
11d6 Channel Energy at Level 2. Though the Desna must be favoring you pretty well to get this off.
And isn't that +1/2 of a POINT, not a die?
No, the Aasimar (and some other races') Favored Class Bonus adds +1/2 level toward determining the effects. So you're counted as 1 level higher every 2 times you take it.
Weak? The fact at 1st level you'd have at minimum 5d6 of channeling with DC 15 for 1/2 leads me to believe you're just theory crafting and have never actually played or looked at the AP.How is a 1st level Oracle channeling for 5d6? Even with the FCB it's only +1/2 a level, meaning you see no effect before 2nd, and even then it'd only be 2d6 not 5d6.
I think he is referring to the maximum channeling you can do per day? 1d6 per channel, 5 times a day? Meaning he is assuming you dump another stat to increase your Charisma to 18, as life oracles channel energy a number of times per day equal to 1 + Cha modifier.
I could be completely wrong about that, though.
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11d6 Channel Energy at Level 2. Though the Desna must be favoring you pretty well to get this off.Whimsical Channel only adds 1d6, not 6d6.
Ah, nice catch.
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You didn't include Magical Lineage or Metamagic Master/Wayang Spellhunter both set to Color Spray for Persistent Color Sprays out of your first level spell slots. I am very disappointed in your system mastery OP. At the very least remember to get a Threnodic Metamagic Rod, Lesser so you can laugh at Undead.
Though watch out, some people might call your build illegal for no reason.
You didn't include Magical Lineage or Metamagic Master/Wayang Spellhunter both set to Color Spray for Persistent Color Sprays out of your first level spell slots. You also didn't go Dual-Cursed for Misfortune. I am very disappointed in your system mastery OP. At the very least remember to get a Threnodic Metamagic Rod, Lesser so you can laugh at Undead.
Though watch out, some people might call your build illegal for no reason.
Unfortunately Dual Cursed replaces the bonus spell that would give you Color Spray as an Oracle; if you wanted to go that route you'd probably just want a level one Oracle dip and then go Sorcerer.
True Ill-Omen would be less effective. Fixing above posts for accuracy.
True Ill-Omen would be less effective. Fixing above posts for accuracy.
Level 1 Dual Cursed Oracle dip, then Arcane Sorcerer for the extra +'s to the DC and an eventual Ill Omen wand wielding Improved Familiar?
That does sound mighty scary... I'm sold on it anyway!
I think he is referring to the maximum channeling you can do per day? 1d6 per channel, 5 times a day?
Ah, gotcha.
Lol. If he thinks that's gonna let him stomp over Carrion Crown he should think again.
Meaning he is assuming you dump another stat to increase your Charisma to 18, as life oracles channel energy a number of times per day equal to 1 + Cha modifier.
You should be starting with an 18 anyway, it's your casting stat and you're a full caster, and all your abilities run on Cha. You don't need to dump anything to do so. 16 +2 racial.
You could go for the wand-wielding familiar on a Dual Cursed Oracle without using it as a dip - Eldritch Heritage and Improved Eldritch Heritage are pretty useful feats for an Oracle to get access to the Arcane Sorcerer Bloodline for Arcane Spells. You'll already have the Charisma for it, and a 3-feat chain for access to arcane spells and a familiar isn't bad.
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The fact that this ability practically requires the GM to re-write the game is a clear indication that it shouldn't exist.
It doesn't require anything of the kind. I ran Legacy of Fire for my aforementioned Oracle of Heavens player and managed just fine. The group was effective, but he no more so than several others.
Like I said, his illusionist Wizard in another game was much worse.