What are the sins of GM's? (GM here, trying to improve)


Advice

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Hey,

I'm one of two GM's running a game with 5 PC's. The group is very polite, and it's difficult to get them to complain. When they get started though, I learn quite a lot and the game drastically improves.

I'd like to hear what are your issues with GM's in general. What screws up a game, or makes you leave the table? What little things turn an awesome night into a good night?

This is the first Campaign I've ever run, so I don't know the depths of my ignorance just yet.


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Don't exclude anyone; let everyone have a chance to shine, otherwise your players will start to tune out and lose interest. To this end, ask lots of questions. If someone seems spacey, get them involved. "What does your character think about that plan, [name]?"

Don't allow the game to get bogged down with rules disputes; if someone wants to dispute a ruling you've made, give 'em a couple minutes to present their case, but don't let it distract from the game. Make a judgment call and move on; discuss the details after the session (but before the next).

Don't consult the Core Rulebook every time you're unsure about the rules; as above, make a judgment call and move on. If anything's going to kill the session, it'll be the 15 minutes you spend flipping through the CRB; just make a note and look it up later.

Don't become too attached to your NPCs; they might end up dead, or worse yet, ignored. Your players aren't going to remember the NPCs' names half of the time, so don't take it personally.


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This are some of my "Commandements" while GMing:

1) Don't exclude anyone, you have to involve in the game every player at the table.
2) Maximum 5 players, over this number the game because more difficult to manage and it could not worth the effort.
3) Don't play against your players, but with them, your goal is to let everyone have fun, not killing your group.
4) Encourage good game, reward your players for actions that are not combat or traps, social situations or roleplay should be awarded as well.

When I see an odd situation at the table (like players arguing too much out-of-character) I immediately stop playing and I face the situation because ambiguities are very dangerous.


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Make multiple plans and never get attached to them. The Party will often do things you don't expect and a GM who railroads is a bad GM. This is hard to do but you need to make your players want to continue the story. If they lose interest then attempt to do other things that try to lure them back in. Introduce a sideplot that reconnects with the main story when they're finished exploring it.

Never get super into NPCs unless your mindset is based on "This guy is gonna die really cool."

Never think of the game as GM Vs PC.

Don't get bogged down by the mechanics of a situation. If the PCs are trying to do something interesting and it isn't completely covered by the rules, it's generally A O.K to roll a die and decide it on a 50/50.

Always roll important dice in front of your players. Player is at 10 hp and you might kill him? I personally want to see it. That way if he misses I see it and immediately "YES!"

Rules disputes should be handled in less than a minute. If it continues just ask them to please accept your ruling for now and you'll discuss it after the session. If it's a problem that results in the death of a player or similar crippling then it's okay to replay the encounter while recording what people were at at that moment.


All of the above x2 and most if all have fun


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Also be prepared to deviate from source materials if you need to. Players often do unexpected things, approach problems in unusual ways, get lucky/unlucky in combat.

I try to make each adventure a tough unique challenge that requires good play for the pcs to overcome, it is not an exact science however and a critical with something like a x4 multiplier weapon can often spell the end of a pc and create a potential total party kill. So when designing the encounters I try and minimise the element of such extreme randomness to some degree. Players like nothing better than a close run fight against a memorable baddie and the end of a well written story arc.


strayshift wrote:


I try to make each adventure a tough unique challenge that requires good play for the pcs to overcome, it is not an exact science however and a critical with something like a x4 multiplier weapon can often spell the end of a pc and create a potential total party kill. So when designing the encounters I try and minimise the element of such extreme randomness to some degree. Players like nothing better than a close run fight against a memorable baddie and the end of a well written story arc.

Oh man this so much. Be extremely wary of Greataxes, Falchions or Greatswords on NPCs since they carry a strong random potential to gib a party member from 1-4th.


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Personally I ask the players after the game individually since some people have issues with expressing points of view in groups what their thoughts on a game are? I try to do this within 24 hours of a game session since it is still fresh in people's minds.

I then tend to ask some pointed question such as what do you think about encounter xyz? How was my handling of this or that situation.

Based upon feedback I attempt to adjust for the next session.


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1: Having there own PCs in a game
2: Rail roaring the game
3: hitting on your sister


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The above is all insanely important.

If you have more than 5 Players then implement a time frame where if the players don't act within, or declare their actions, then they hold their actions until the next person goes. However, you should do this only with veteran PCs since they tend to know what they want to do within a few seconds of their turn starting, or they are not paying attention anyway.

It is always good to start off with simple and basic enemies at the beginning of campaigns. Your PCs are low level and you want them to win. You can increase the danger and power of the enemies as the PCs get higher level since coming back from death becomes easier.

If you are going to have a high lethality campaign then you ~need~ to find some sort of way to allow PCs to come back from the dead easily.

It is fine to have Save or Suck being used against the PCs. However, if you're sending Kitsune Enchanters with maximum caster statistic and the feats to increase the save DC as high as possible and all magical items to maximize it on the NPC then you're just going to kill your players without them being able to do anything. They will resent you for it if on the first round they are all hit with Hold Person with a Maxed DC that the high stat high save characters have a low chance of beating, and then are all coup de graced on the following round.

Attribute damaging creatures are best served as part of an encounter where the other monsters damage different attributes, or just HP.

Negative levels can quickly kill parties. 1 wight is technically an Epic Encounter for a level 1 party, but this also means that whomever it hits is instantly dead. Leave negative level bestowing monsters for level 2 at the very least unless you are out for PC blood and tears.

Generally if level 1 plays like level 20 you're doing something wrong as a DM.

Avoid only using one type of encounter. If your PCs always know there is only going to be one monster then they will specialize at killing one monster. If there are always hordes of monsters then they will specialize at kill hordes of monsters. Mix the two, but also keep in mind that the monsters or their masters will likely place traps of some sort to complement the monsters since monsters cost money and traps only require maintenance. Random pit traps in a room that has lots of ranged or flying enemies is extremely effective, doubly so if the monsters know the traps is there and are smart enough to take advantage of it.

Also, avoid jerk hordes. If you want to send 16 lvl 2 Kobold warriors, that is great! Go for it! However, if you want to send 16 level 1 Kobold Sorcerers who only have Magic Missile memorized then you're being a jerk since there is literally nothing the party can do about it. Someone is going to die from the minimum of 32 damage a round, even if it will more likely be around 48.

APL+4 is a great "end chapter boss" encounter. APL+5 is a good "end campaign boss" encounter.

If your PCs are killing your encounters without breaking a sweat then you need to mix things up, but wait a little bit to do it. PCs love feeling all powerful, and also keep in mind that some of the strategies they are using are not nearly as effective later on in levels. If this is such a strategy, then let them abuse it until it no longer works as well.

Encourage people to create ridiculous character personalities that they will thoroughly enjoy playing as opposed to boring "realistic" personalities that will slowly shift into something ridiculous as the months go on.

Try to avoid skipping sessions. The game being on hold for 1 session is fine, 2 sessions and people start losing touch with their characters, and 3+ sessions is forget about it.

Avoid knocking off superheroes or supervillains or religious characters. It is great that you read about Christianity, Norse, or Shinto~, but it is highly probably that these have already been knocked off somewhere. We see them used EXCESSIVELY in television, movies, and other mediums to a stupid degree. By using them you are only impoverishing your own work. Instead be Inspired by these works and derive something original from them.

There is always a major difference between the DM being a dick and the PCs being stupid. Know that difference and don't be a dick, but do punish your PCs for their mistakes as that is the only way they will learn. If you coddle them then you are their worst enemy.


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If you are trying to plot out adventures or campaign paths make absolutely sure there are as many ways as possible for the players to get where you want them to be; if you bottleneck the possible routes to only one choice you almost guarantee they won't take it.


Throw in good laugh characters such as a potion maker that is selling potions for "Half off", but when closely inspected the products are past their "sell by" date and are only half as effective.

Don't do an open world unless you want your Players to "grind" levels before taking on dungeons either intentionally (moving around avoiding the dungeon) or unintentionally (failing skill checks).

If you want to tell a serious story then keep your table serious. Inform the party that this is a serious campaign. If you want to tell an aloof and silly campaign encourage the silliness at the table, and tell the players about it.

If there is a running joke, such as "every tavern we enter burns down" then don't write content where the PCs have a BAMF moment walking out of one unless they're all immune or highly resistant to fire.

Know that being in the "ballpark" with Sense Motive or Perception can enable the person using aforementioned skills to know something is odd or out of place, while reaching or beating the DC results in knowing for sure that something is wrong. Mix this up with PCs hitting the "ballpark" on things that are not there randomly.

Roll 20 checks for each character and know what their Sense Motive, Perception, and Stealths are. When they use any of these three use and delete the top most check if you don't want to use the "ballpark" method above.

If you do not use the 20 checks above then force the PCs to make perception checks randomly. Force them to make Sense Motive checks against random people they are talking to. Everyone has a secret, and everyone sees things out of the corner of their eye from time to time.

You want the "safest looking" route to be the most dangerous, and the most dangerous route to be the safest. The difference is the safe route will probably have massive bandit ambushes, while that route that goes over the mountains, requires lots of checks, occasionally ends up with encountering a dangerous enemy, and can result in freezing to death, BUT the PCs are aware of those dangers and can prepare for them. Hannibal caught the Romans off guard after he passed the Alps because it was the most dangerous route he could have taken.


Play. Play as you did when you were in grade school. By that I mean try to remember back to being 9 or 10 and the weird, bizarre make believe you had then. My daughters (10 and 12) for example like to play with their dolls ("babies") still and make up these elaborate backgrounds for themselves and their children. If they were 20 something and asked me how to GM, I'd expect their games to be full of lots of plot, background and fluffy details.

So just...play. If it's not fun, don't do it. Do you think tactics are fun? That's cool; do it a lot in your games. Think tons of story is fun? Do lots of that then.

Remember that this is a team effort. Think about the fun of others at the table, even as you own your own part of it. Now you can't read people's minds, so this brings us to the final point:

Communicate. Talk, sing, email, send smoke signals or Morse code, but chat w/your players. It doesn't have to be feedback specifically about the game. Find out where they work, who their families are, and where they grew up. Learn whether they like DC or Marvel super heroes; are they in a fantasy baseball or football league; when was their last piece of candy and why. All of this dialogue gives you a sense of who your players are and what they want from the game.

I personally love epicness. Epic plots, fight scenes, and conflict. I'm not ashamed to say I thoroughly enjoy Jerry Bruckheimer movies. Also I root for underdogs CONSTANTLY. My fave comic book character is Spider-Man; a poor kid from the outer boroughs who, even with super powers, could barely make rent, not to mention the fact that, back when I was reading the book he got his head handed to him by more villains than any other hero in Marveldom.

Needless to say as a player/GM I love games with lots of action, epic villains and heroes that are underdogs. I don't mind it when the players have some fights with puff-ball opponents, but I always try to have at least one fight where they have to pull out all the stops, throw everything they have and drag themselves out of it when they're done.

TL/DR: Play like a kid, include others, and communicate. Oh, and one more thing: be nice. It's a simple thing but one a lot of GMs overlook. Be nice. Here's a phrase I say to my kids all the time to remind them to be nice to each other when they play together: "Go with the flow and say yes more than no." Now I'm not saying be a pushover, but work WITH your players, not against them. Be nice.


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Somehting that's come up recently in a game I'm playing in...

Don't play favorites with people. Treat all players equally, if you wouldn't allow all the players to do something don't allow a single player to do it either.

As a player, it's never more frustrating for me than when the rules aren't applied equally and fairly to all people in the game.

Don't try to handle out of character problems in game. It wont work and someone will only get angry and upset about it.

If a player can't play cooperatively and behave in a manner that foster a fun playstyle for the rest of the group don't be afraid to ask them to straighten up or leave. It may be difficult to tell this to a friend, but if they are being disruptive there is sometimes no other recourse.


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Remember that someone can make a GOD GISH of DOOM, but that said character is probably only really good at a few things. Namely Combat, and Knowledge or Social or sensing skills dependent on their caster attribute and class. You don't need to "nerf" characters, you just need to play to the strengths of the other characters.

If you notice your players are getting bored in a fluff dungeon let them make an attack or caster level roll, then based on how good that is tell them how they dramatically tear through the dungeon to the boss room while using minimal resources doing so. That should get them pumped for the boss fight.

Be aware that sometimes the most exciting characters are people who have not "fallen," yet. If a character thinks that anything is possible then he will try to do anything. If he has fallen to earth to realize he has limitations then he can be painfully boring.

Manically depressed villains are not exciting regardless of how angry they are with the world.

What is exciting to you as a DM is not necessarily exciting to the players.

You need to give your players motivation for wanting to fight the villain. Killing off their PC's family members is the most cliche' way of doing so and therefore should be avoided.

Let your players feel like heroes. Let them feel Epic. Let them feel larger than life. Then swat them down with the villain to ruin their parade. Often times this is best done during the parade, that the town that the PCs just saved is throwing, by the bad guy who was behind the town's danger. Make him Dastardly! He thanks them for killing off those "new recruits" since now he doesn't have to pay them, then have him say that they don't matter and the town is still going to burn. Instantly PARADE OVER! Heroes! GET OUT THERE AND STOP HIM! TAKE OUR MONEY!

Remember that sometimes the Villain has literally nothing left to live for after the PCs have ruined all of his plans. He tries to kill them in the most destructive way possibly, and this always leads to his own death. The PCs get a save to avoid death, but the Villain willfully embraces his death since all he has left to look forward to is prison, humiliation, and the end of all ambition.

If the PCs save a Villain from his own demise or spare his life while helping him dodge prison, humiliation, and the end of all of his ambitions then he should be shaken by this generosity to the point of having a grudging loyalty to them and their ideals enough to aid them or attempt to reform or live by their ideals.

If a PC worships Sarenrae and offers the villain redemption and mercy allow the villain to accept that instead of death when he has tried to win and failed.

Don't be afraid to indebt heroes to a town, but if they regularly skip out on their debts let the word of their deeds be spread far and wide so no one helps them if they need a raise dead.

If the PCs kill a interesting villain have him return later as a skeleton champion or zombie lord. If they flat-out kill him before he can act then that was a body double, and now he acts after spending a free action clapping and laughing.

USE accents at the table for important characters, even if these are just cliche's or stereotypical. These are comical in their own way, and nothing is funnier than the huge muscle bound 2-handing damage god villain having a lisp or a high pitch voice.

Remember that intelligent enemies in dungeons that can see the PCs annihilate their comrades in a completely one sided fight are likely going to surrender and leave the dungeon so they can live another day. If you use this have their desire to run from the dungeon be sincere instead of just a way to snow-ball encounters. This is essentially a "you do so good people get out of your way, but you still get XP for them!"

Ultra-complex plot-webs where even you get confused are TOO CONFUSING. SHTAP!

Avoid having NPCs hit on the PCs. Let the PCs be interesting in the NPCs if they want romance in their game. If you have PCs who are extremely passive but want romance then have an NPC in a tavern make it a point of sitting next to and flirting with the PC. However, don't use this as a chance to hit on the other players, this should be entirely in-game and dice should be used to decide the outcomes regardless of how silver a player's tongue is.


I agree with most of the above. The only contrary opinion is about the rules. Some people care more about the flow of the game. Some people care more about fairness. Some people are manipulative and try to push the rules aside so the flow will continue to their advantage. Telling the difference between the first and third types is not easy. Players who see someone as being a GMs pet or a cheater tend to freak out and become the second type even if they are normally the first type.

I will always assign a player who is not involved (and has at least moderate knowledge of the rules) to look it up and show us the rule. I find it keeps people thinking about the game and not daydreaming. I also don't mind finding out I was wrong and letting the players get a TKO instead of a KO.

I roll all the dice out of view for things like perception, disguise, sense motive, bluff, basically anything where you only find out you screwed up once something bad happens. I roll all of the dice in front of players in combat after announcing what the NPC/monster needs on the dice to succeed. I kill PCs fairly often, maybe one every 2 levels, but my players don't flip out usually, because Raise Dead is cheap and if the character was above level 2 they can afford it.

Trust is the key to the game. I find it is easier to use lots of house rules and custom material when playing with the same people for years and years. I find it is a lot easier to build trust with strangers in a strict RAW environment like PFS.


Give people a chance to do their Schtick, avoid having every NPC suddenly spread out once the wizard hits level 5. If its logical such as they have experience, know he has the spell, or the enemy is lead by another wizard is fine but give him a chance to do his thing. or in simpler terms, if a Pc likes to swing from chandeliers and rescue maidens dont remove all chandeliers and maidens from the game.

Try to avoid countering specific Pc's it creates an arms race the Pc cant win and can make the game un-fun for everyone. if ther is an issue, it may just be a perception one but most of these "bobs barbarian is too powerful" issues can be solved by just changing up different types of encounters.


Off the top of my head (and will need some rewrites):

The Golden Rule: Everyone is there to have fun!

1- Know the rules! This one is probably the toughest with the amount of material around. At the very least, master combat rules since they are the ones where everyone participates. Be familiar with the PCs abilities as they gain levels.
2- Be prepared. Don't read the material as you go along. Have what's necessary to draw maps. Know what weird special abilities some monsters have other than simply smashing heroes.
3- Know the setting There is a lot of flavor material that can really breath life into an area.
4- The PCs are not idiots. The players may not know a setting, but the PCs will and some knowledge is pretty common. If goblins are common in the area, they'll know what a goblin is on sight. Everyone will know what a dragon is when they see it (giant flying lizard-O-doom), though maybe not the specifics (Fire breathing? Lighting breathing? Good? Evil?). PCs with different background will automatically know different stuff. A rogue knows stuff that a cleric doesn't.
5- It's not the DM's game! It's everyone around the table's game. And everyone is there to tell a story and have fun.
6- The DM's mission: is to reveal a grand story while challenging (not killing) the heroes.
7- The PCs are not the DM's enemies. The PCs are the heroes that, as a group, will *always* win.
8- The PCs are the stars of the show, not the DM's NPCs. NPCs may be a key element of the campaign (i.e. protect the princess at all costs), but it's the PCs who will be the bread and butter of this story. Learn what they can do and integrate those talents in the story.
9- Streaks of good/bad luck happen. It's not anybody's fault if it happens, so be careful when you need to readjust the game.
10- Know when to be strict, know when to be flexible. i.e. If it works for the heroes, it works for the enemies Just because the PCs have the means to do something doesn't mean they automatically will get it (especially when it comes to loot and buying/creating magic items). Sometimes it's okay to bend the rules for everyone if it occasionally means making a better story (the Rule of Cool).


Kill your players.

Perceived immunity can do a lot of damage to a story, make sure a player dies once in a while, preferably in a thematic or surprising way, even if it means the next treasure hoard inexplicably has exactly enough gold and diamond dust for a resurrection spell.

Avoid deaths via:
Random insignificant minions. (If players die to the least important encounters in the chapter it will have a bad effect on morale for facing the big bads.)

1st round of lengthy combat. (Its boring to have to sit out a combat, especially if your friends cant get you back on your feet fast enough.)

Axe crits. (All you need to take out a PC is one minion with a decent strength score, power attack and a Greataxe, this is less important at higher levels but game wrecking at low levels.)

Bad luck. (My dice hate one of my players, 1 out of 3 hits (even with greataxes) against this player alone is a critical threat. Ive taken to fudge away one out of every 3 crits i roll on him.)

Rocks fall, party dies. (Its boring when your GM kills you with no defense of any kind allowed, if you do this make sure to put smiles on their faces with big treasure later.)


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Follow the Three Clue Rule. For a party, getting completely stuck with no apparent course of action is worse than getting killed.

tsuruki wrote:
Axe crits. (All you need to take out a PC is one minion with a decent strength score, power attack and a Greataxe, this is less important at higher levels but game wrecking at low levels.)

*shudders at recalling The Haunting of Harrowstone*


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tsuruki wrote:

Kill your players.

I hope he meant PCs...

:)


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

You are a player, too. One of the easiest traps to fall into is the perception that the GM isn't a member of the playing group, but falls completely outside the party dynamic. Engage in OOC discussions. If you know the rules better than your players, help them with tactical decisions. Help them pick spells, feats, magic items. Try to learn to divorce your knowledge of the campaign from the advice you give, and react like a player. You have a vested interest in the PCs success (it's really easy for an adventure to die after a TPK), so there's nothing wrong with helping the party succeed. Taking this approach helps combat "GM vs Players" as well as "the GM always loses", because the success of the party is also the success of the GM.

Plus, lots of good stuff everyone else has already said.

Edit:

Be ready for the party to fail. Sometimes there will be a TPK. Sometimes the villains will win. Have an idea in place for how to deal with this situation. The best adventures (in my opinion) start with "this is what happens if there are no PCs". The PCs are the spanner in the works. They're what the NPCs have to react to. If the PCs all die, the villains succeed... and maybe twenty years down the line someone True Resurrects the PCs as the villains' nemeses. (I've been waiting to use that trick for years, but never had a TPK worth doing it with.)


Do not tell Players what their characters feel. Drives me batty when GM's do this. Describe the scene and allow them to react. This will hone your writing skills.

Make eye contact with all your players not just the dominant personalities. To help with this move the alphas around the table so they are not all sitting together.

Reward good ideas. Players will from time to time wow you with an awesome idea, creative solution, or a ballsy combat maneuver. Reward this by slightly and publicly stacking the deck in their favor. This encourages players to take risks. "Bob, that is sweet! I'm going to give you a +2 awesome bonus for your leap attack of the 20 foot ledge" (lame example but you get the point)

Reward good RP. Even just telling a player after a game session that you appreciate the RP they bring to the table can be enough.

Have fun, this can not be stressed enough.

-MD


Muad'Dib wrote:
Do not tell Players what their characters feel. Drives me batty when GM's do this. Describe the scene and allow them to react.

So much this!


Gregory Connolly wrote:
Muad'Dib wrote:
Do not tell Players what their characters feel. Drives me batty when GM's do this. Describe the scene and allow them to react.
So much this!

There's a fine line here. It's fine to tell the player that they're experiencing a physical or emotional stimulus, but the player should decide how the PC interprets it (magical compulsions aside, of course). You can describe a staircase ascending to "dizzying heights", but it's the player's job to decide whether his character has a standard reaction to heights, is acrophobic, or doesn't bat an eye. But try to avoid phrases like "terrifyingly large teeth" unless the players understand that they're the ones who decide whether their PCs actually are terrified (and, if so, how the PCs deal with it). If the party fighter is a badass trophy hunter used to taking down T-rexes, he might appreciate that a lesser adventurer would be terrified by the sight, but for him it's just another quarry.


I disagree 100%. The only time it is acceptable to tell a player how a character feels emotionally is when under magical compulsion. Nothing will make players lose interest faster than telling them how to play their characters.


Cardinal Sins

1. Not Being Clear About Nature of Game
2. Not talking to players about Power Level.
3. Having players make their characters separately.
4. Not having character sheets made for the players
in your game so you can see what they can do.
5. Gross disregard for Wealth By Level guideliness,
with stinginess being worse than Monte Hall.
6. GM versus PC mindset, trying to "kill" players, deliberate
design of very challenging encounters with every fight having death on the line, etc.
7. Candy-coating the game, fudging too many rolls, refusing to let
pet characters that you made die and never genuinely threatening PCs.
8. Randomness that does not help the game but can cause needless
disparity and hurt feelings, particularly Random Attribute
Generation and Random Treasure
9. Gross Favoritism to players and certain concepts.
10. Being wildly antagonistic to certain players but
especially certain character concepts. Don't let things like Alchemists, Bards, Monks, Summoners, Witches, Mounted Characters, paladins into the game if you will just dick them over again and
again and again. You know what you Like and Dislike but try to be impartial. If you cannot, do not let people play things you will
not be fair towards.
11. Being unprepared, "winging it" and the like.
12. Being too far from "winging it" with slavish devotion to canned adventures and forcing people to do the "right things" AKA railroading.


Gregory Connolly wrote:
I disagree 100%. The only time it is acceptable to tell a player how a character feels emotionally is when under magical compulsion. Nothing will make players lose interest faster than telling them how to play their characters.

I specifically warned against telling players how to play their characters. : /


blahpers, I don't think we really disagree, I just objected to one word choice. I know how hard it can be as a GM to give good descriptions of things without describing how things make characters feel. I have just had too much experience with GMs trying to force players into a plot they are opposed to, or to accept an NPC they hate and can defeat. I am not trying to misrepresent you, I do feel very strongly about this though.


Be prepared for Passwall.

There's a broader definition than just the spell, of course. Sometimes you are going to spend an enormous amount of time and energy and creativity engineering an encounter that is going to be incredibly challenging and epic. But, your players found a skeleton key you didn't anticipate (figuratively speaking) that allows them to bypass all the challenge and awesome.

Just accept it. Reward their creativity. Learn a lesson about the gap in the encounter. Save the encounter for a future session, if you can. Don't try to reset on the fly to force the encounter on your players! That usually leads to a very unsatisfying encounter and a lot of player death, without any of the awesomeness it could have had.


blahpers wrote:
Gregory Connolly wrote:
Muad'Dib wrote:
Do not tell Players what their characters feel. Drives me batty when GM's do this. Describe the scene and allow them to react.
So much this!
There's a fine line here. It's fine to tell the player that they're experiencing a physical or emotional stimulus, but the player should decide how the PC interprets it (magical compulsions aside, of course). You can describe a staircase ascending to "dizzying heights", but it's the player's job to decide whether his character has a standard reaction to heights, is acrophobic, or doesn't bat an eye. But try to avoid phrases like "terrifyingly large teeth" unless the players understand that they're the ones who decide whether their PCs actually are terrified (and, if so, how the PCs deal with it). If the party fighter is a badass trophy hunter used to taking down T-rexes, he might appreciate that a lesser adventurer would be terrified by the sight, but for him it's just another quarry.

My compromise, sometimes, is 'that would make most people x"

In which it is understood that the pcs are not "most people" by definition.


1. Don't be afraid to make a rules call and look it up later. the game will go smoother and everyone will have more fun if you don't spend all day looking up rules.

2. Don't punish your players for what they're good at. This doesn't mean don't challenge them btw.

One of the least fun experiences I've had was when I built a combat maneuver character, and no matter what I did I needed a 15+ to make it work. When I asked the GM he said "I don't care what your CMB is you shouldn't be able to do trip someone more then 25% of the time". That ruined the game for me, and made my character pointless.


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Cardinal Chunder wrote:
tsuruki wrote:

Kill your players.

I hope he meant PCs...

:)

wait. I wasn't supposed to kill my players?

*hides bodies*


SPCDRI wrote:
Cardinal Sins

Well ... ten out of twelve ain't bad. :)


1. Don't attempt to impose your personal morality on either the characters or the players.
2. Don't try to DM while babysitting. Everyone except the baby ends up crying.
3. Don't inform the players how awesome your campaign is. Let them play and decide for themselves.
4. Don't yell ... ever—unless it's in character and you're not gonna wake up or piss off anyone.
5. Don't say, "That's impossible," unless it literally is. Better to give a player's character a one in 500,000 chance than to say, "No!"
6. Don't wear on your players' nerves by wearing out your favorite NPCs. If he's their ally, let him support them, or even occasionally come to their aid ... but don't have him rescuing them constantly or regularly. Even occasionally may well be too much. If he's their enemy, don't have him defeat them at every turn, thwart them constantly, escape on each occasion when capture is imminent or cheat death to the point where his appearance causes rolled eyes rather than gasps of dismay.
7. Don't get drunk. "Drunk" and "DM" is not a good combination.
8. Don't try to DM if you're really sick or in a really bad mood. Characters end up dead or in the Dungeon of No Escape on the 597th layer of the Abyss that way.
9. Don't force it. If your great scenario doesn't come off for some reason, just flow like the Tao.
10. Don't take lists too seriously.


Gregory Connolly wrote:
blahpers, I don't think we really disagree, I just objected to one word choice. I know how hard it can be as a GM to give good descriptions of things without describing how things make characters feel. I have just had too much experience with GMs trying to force players into a plot they are opposed to, or to accept an NPC they hate and can defeat. I am not trying to misrepresent you, I do feel very strongly about this though.

That's completely fair.

I believe that it's sufficient if the GM and players all understand that players has full control over PC feelings, that the GM does not deliberately step on that control, and that players, in turn, are responsible for deciding how the PC actually feels and reacts both because and in spite of any narrative. This isn't adversarial; it's collaborative. Otherwise, the GM is limited to "You enter a dim clearing and see a human female that the average human would consider attractive leaning against a tree."

If a GM really is trying to force feelings on the player despite the player's wishes, then I'd say that's a pretty bad GM--at least for Pathfinder. Maybe there are other games where that's acceptable, but it isn't really in the spirit of D&D.

As in all things, YMMV.


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1. Letting the flow bog down. Sometimes one or two players get something going and we forget the other people who are driving the entire story forward. Sometimes everyone gets stymied by "what do we do now" or a lack of group initiative, and things slow to a halt while entertaining discussions go on. An hour can go by while someone figures out whether or not to pull the lever. Get things moving again by simply going around the table. "I'm going to go around the table and you can each tell me what you're doing." followed by "Okay, anything else? Let's move on."

2. Getting frustrated with character specializations I've been guilty of this myself, until I had to admit "Well, taking 20 in this skill is what makes your character really tick, so ...take the 20 and enjoy being really, really good at what you do." Sure, I was hoping to really challenge the players in a specific scene I had planned, but they have an expert along who is really good at bypassing that sort of thing. "Well done!"

3. DMPC's It's tempting, it's fun for the GM, but don't do it. You can have NPC's along for the ride as part of the adventure, but don't EVER give in to the temptation to "play alongside" your friends, because it's lazy storytelling (deus ex machina: "Come along friends, and I'll show you the way!")and leads to heavy-handed abuse (force majeur: "The henchman turns into a silver dragon and teleports you all out of danger. Surprise!") and robs the players of their agency in the world ("Gee whiz, what did he need US for after all?").


Sins...

1. Don't run NPCs like a computer game would. The friendly ones don't have to help whenever you approach them, and the evil ones don't have to have aggro. Play them smart. Spend 2 seconds thinking of their motivations. Give any intelligent monster a mental HP minimum that will cause them to withdraw and possibly return with friends.

2. Stay flexible know what you can improv. Make little lists of things like dungeon furniture or human villager names so you can make up little details on the fly instead of having another grey brick room and another farmer named Roy. If you're using a canned adventure and its dungeon has a room or an entire wing that its irrelevant and you're short on time, remove it. If the PC's have a map, then have that room experience a cave in a week ago. Wandering around pointlessly in a labyrinth populated by random monsters that probably would be hostile to each other gets old sometimes.

3. Don't improv too much. Make lots of little lego blocks of adventures ahead of time. Snap them together as needed. I've never met anybody that can do an entire campaign and world on the fly and keep it coherent.

4. Don't coddle. If you're a GM, you probably have more system knowledge than several of your players. They won't learn the rules or how to use them cleverly unless you set a good example. Have your enemies grapple, flank, use potions and items, find cover, and generally work together coherently. This also allows you to get a lot more mileage out of goblins and kobolds. After getting trashed by weak monsters a few times, you'll notice that your PCs will start working together better and smarter.

5. Don't play adversarial. If you cleverly kill your group, you didn't win. You just ended your campaign and probably just realized that you'll never use all the neat stuff you spend 20 hours of your own free time coming up with. You want your players to win your game, but it feels sweeter when they had to work for it.

6. Communicate with your players. If you want to house rule, let them know in advance. If there is a disagreement on how something is being done, take a break in play (like after a session) and talk about it. We don't know everything, and your player may bring up a good point for you to consider with your rule.

7. Never tell a player what his character does. Even if it's a guaranteed fall into a pit. Have them roll something where a critical success somehow can prevent the certain doom. You control the world, not the PCs. Let the player's dice do that. Even if its a natural 100 on a percentile dice, let the chance be there, and then deal with how to allow the success if it happens, no matter how absurd. (I will rework some canned adventures with auto-lose traps to add in rolls of some sort. They really annoy me.)

8. Never choose favorites. I don't care if you have a hot sexy new player that you want to bang, the character still gets to be a valid arrow target. Also, resist the urge to have all the guys with falchions always target the annoying player's character.

9. Never think that any rule doesn't have an exception. Personally, my table knows that the next person that is playing with their phone instead of paying attention will be getting all of the attacks. It's basically an inside joke now. If it's fun for everybody, it's okay. (and everybody giggles when somebody's phone beeps during combat. Players say things like, "Can you answer that? I've only got 7 hp left and my guy needs a break.")


Mulet wrote:

Hey,

I'm one of two GM's running a game with 5 PC's. The group is very polite, and it's difficult to get them to complain. When they get started though, I learn quite a lot and the game drastically improves.

I'd like to hear what are your issues with GM's in general. What screws up a game, or makes you leave the table? What little things turn an awesome night into a good night?

This is the first Campaign I've ever run, so I don't know the depths of my ignorance just yet.

I realize this is a non-answer, but since your motive seems to be to improve your GM'ing, may I present you with my 20 tips for aspiring GMs?

-Nearyn

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber
Mulet wrote:
What are the sins of GM's?

Not prepping enough.

This is my sin. I don't read the scenarios enough, get enough practice with the NPCs, put together enough props, study monster abilities and NPC spell lists enough.

You'll never be prepared for everything, but you should be ready for what you prepped.


TriOmegaZero wrote:
Mulet wrote:
What are the sins of GM's?

Not prepping enough.

This is my sin. I don't read the scenarios enough, get enough practice with the NPCs, put together enough props, study monster abilities and NPC spell lists enough.

You'll never be prepared for everything, but you should be ready for what you prepped.

Absolutely. I always forget to check to see if enemies have power attack or not, and then wonder why they got steamrolled and did such poor damage on their hits.


How about returning calls, texts and emails? Mine wont/cant for the life of him


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As a player, you can always stand in the bushes outside his bedroom window at night and sing to him until he responds to your inquiry.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber

Boombox optional.


The boombox is never optional.


OK, guys, I have been DMing since 1974 or so, I have a few suggestions, they apply most to newer DMs.

Puzzles, riddles? Sure, go for it. Let the players have fun trying to figure them out or guess. But do remember that a player that isn’t so hot at this may be playing a Riddlemaster bardic genius. So, after they don’t get it on their own, let them get HINTS by making skill or INT checks.

Loot? Players love loot, but you don’t want to be Monty Haul. New DMs- use the WBL tables, but be a little more generous, remember that you can go one level above without breaking the game. So, with 5th level PC’s they can have up to 16K gps each. Err on the side of being generous, but don’t overdo it. Throw in some cool sounding loot once in a while like a “delicate hand carved ivory statue, worth 120gps”. (in the back of some older sourcebooks they have tables of this stuff) and make up a few fun but mostly useless in combat magic items like a “Toy song bird that sings along with you, adding +1 to Perform checks”. Never hand out a macguffin that they will NEED several games from now without making it real obvious.

Starting stats? Again err on the side of being generous. If the last DM had a 15 pt buy, try a modest increase to a 20 pt buy. Don’t go to “roll 6d6 keep the lowest 4, roll a dozen times, pick the best set”. I suggest 25pt buy but nothing back from "dumping".

Source books- here’s where you should be conservative. Start with the Core & APG only.

DMPC’s- as in a NPC that you run, not the players. DON’T. Yes, some few experienced DMs can pull these off. You are not experienced. Don’t.

Evil games, evil PCs or CN sociopath PC’s: at some point in time, experienced mature players/DMs will want to give this a try as a change of pace. You’re not experienced. Don’t. Same with PvP. Ask the players to come up with a background which includes why they are together as a team, or suggest a reason. Just tell them “Hey guys, I want to run a mature heroic campaign here, none of that stuff. I can’t have fun too if you guys do that sort of stuff in this campaign. Maybe later in another game, OK?”

Pre-gen PC’s. Never. Do use modules, but change things up a bit.
Railroading. Yes, OK, within limits. Make sure you allow the players to “stop the train” to get off and visit a ‘whistle stop” etc. Read “DM of the Rings” Don’t be that DM.

Table time- make sure every PC has a chance to shine at least once a nite.

Splitting the party while adventuring; half the fun for the players, double the work for you. Don’t.


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I believe one of the biggest is for you ( and the players) to forget that you are there to have fun too.


Cranky Dog wrote:

7- The PCs are not the DM's enemies. The PCs are the heroes that, as a group, will *always* win.

I'd like the add the following sub-note to this:

• but never let the PC's know that. ;-) Let them think they might lose.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber
Harry Canyon wrote:
Let them think they might lose.

Oh, they certainly might, if they aren't careful. Victory is not assured.


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Let me get this straight: the Great and Powerful TOZ is saying you should prep more? You're one of the kings of the no prep model of gaming. You've even told ME that when I was ranting in a thread, and I've GM'd for 3 decades. Now you're saying PREP MORE?

...

Oh Tri, what happened to you... :)

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