Beguiler conversion for Pathfinder


Conversions

601 to 650 of 847 << first < prev | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | next > last >>

ertw wrote:
...eidolon.

Summoning archetype? Interesting.


3 people marked this as a favorite.
Penumbral Shadow wrote:
ertw wrote:
...eidolon.
Summoning archetype? Interesting.

Not quite, but you'll have to wait to see how.

Also since we're at the top of the page again here are the most recent links for newcomers:

Beguiler Conversion - main conversion document
Beguilers of the Inner Seas - Golarion themed options for your beguiler


2 people marked this as a favorite.
ertw wrote:
Not quite, but you'll have to wait to see how.

EVIL


Penumbral Shadow wrote:
ertw wrote:
Not quite, but you'll have to wait to see how.
EVIL

I'm inclined to agree with Penumbral here.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Alright I'll give a few details. The eidolon granted to the wayfaring haunter isn't a summoned creature, it's part of the beguiler herself; specifically, it's her shadow. As such it's closer to an animal companion than a summoner's eidolon. I'm still thinking over the best way to approach eidolon healing and death. For the first few levels, the beguiler and eidolon must be attached to one another; while attached they only get one set of actions between the two creatures and a few evolutions can be shared between beguiler and eidolon (eg. the beguiler gains the eidolon's natural armour as an armour bonus while attached).

Once the beguiler gains the ability to separate from her eidolon she can do so carefully as a 1 minute action or quickly as a standard action that deals damage to the eidolon. While separated each creature gets its own set of actions. Even when separated, the eidolon can't go very far from the beguiler (I'm thinking close spell range). The result is that the beguiler gets to choose between being separate from her eidolon and having a flanking partner or staying connected to her eidolon and getting buffed by its evolutions.


ertw wrote:

Alright I'll give a few details. The eidolon granted to the wayfaring haunter isn't a summoned creature, it's part of the beguiler herself; specifically, it's her shadow. As such it's closer to an animal companion than a summoner's eidolon. I'm still thinking over the best way to approach eidolon healing and death. For the first few levels, the beguiler and eidolon must be attached to one another; while attached they only get one set of actions between the two creatures and a few evolutions can be shared between beguiler and eidolon (eg. the beguiler gains the eidolon's natural armour as an armour bonus while attached).

Once the beguiler gains the ability to separate from her eidolon she can do so carefully as a 1 minute action or quickly as a standard action that deals damage to the eidolon. While separated each creature gets its own set of actions. Even when separated, the eidolon can't go very far from the beguiler (I'm thinking close spell range). The result is that the beguiler gets to choose between being separate from her eidolon and having a flanking partner or staying connected to her eidolon and getting buffed by its evolutions.

Okay, that's way different from what I was thinking, but it looks interesting. Maybe since it's more of a companion that summon you could deal with death the same way it's handled for an animal companion? Or I guess you could have it just return to being a regular shadow (and not granting any bonuses) until the next day when it returns to 0 HP? I like the idea of using your eidolon as armor, sort of like a synthesist or aegis, but less powerful. Anyhow, I'm looking forward to seeing how this archetype turns out!


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

That's similar to how a Dread's Shadow Twin works. They share actions and hitpoints unless certain conditions are met (someone within a radius are panicked or shaken) then the twin gets it's own set of actions.


That sounds really cool. Since you mention the eidolon as a flanking partner, are we to assume it has some kind of sneak attack?


Kryzbyn wrote:
That's similar to how a Dread's Shadow Twin works. They share actions and hitpoints unless certain conditions are met (someone within a radius are panicked or shaken) then the twin gets it's own set of actions.

I'm not super familiar with DSP's psionic classes, but I'll be sure to check that out to see if there are any useful ideas/concepts there that can be adapted to this archetype.

SylverFox wrote:
That sounds really cool. Since you mention the eidolon as a flanking partner, are we to assume it has some kind of sneak attack?

No sneak attack progression for the beguiler herself, but I'm thinking about an evolution for the eidolon that grants +1d6 sneak attack (an evolution that can be taken multiple times, but with a HD dependent cap on sneak attack dice).


ertw wrote:
No sneak attack progression for the beguiler herself, but I'm thinking about an evolution for the eidolon that grants +1d6 sneak attack (an evolution that can be taken multiple times, but with a HD dependent cap on sneak attack dice).

If you're doing something like the 1/2 HD round up limit that the accomplished sneak attacker feat has, that's nearly 1/3 your evolution points to keep it maxed out. That's a pretty big investment.


Penumbral Shadow wrote:
ertw wrote:
No sneak attack progression for the beguiler herself, but I'm thinking about an evolution for the eidolon that grants +1d6 sneak attack (an evolution that can be taken multiple times, but with a HD dependent cap on sneak attack dice).
If you're doing something like the 1/2 HD round up limit that the accomplished sneak attacker feat has, that's nearly 1/3 your evolution points to keep it maxed out. That's a pretty big investment.

It is a big investment, but it's also a very powerful ability (especially since eidolons can get multiple attacks fairly readily). Also I'm planning to base this class feature on the unchained eidolon so it's closer to half :P


I feel like it might be an interesting option to give both beguiler and eidolon a sneak attack with smaller damage dice (something like a d4) to give them a sort of flurry style attack while flanking. If the two aren't split up, they can use the regular d6 damage.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
SylverFox wrote:
I feel like it might be an interesting option to give both beguiler and eidolon a sneak attack with smaller damage dice (something like a d4) to give them a sort of flurry style attack while flanking. If the two aren't split up, they can use the regular d6 damage.

I don't think that I'd be able to sell that idea as balanced since you'd be doubling up on actions per round and then teaming that up with what would end up as a combined sneak attack that would output more damage than a normal sneak attacking class between the beguiler and the eidolon. It's an interesting idea, but it's way too powerful to reasonably put into the conversion.


ertw wrote:
SylverFox wrote:
I feel like it might be an interesting option to give both beguiler and eidolon a sneak attack with smaller damage dice (something like a d4) to give them a sort of flurry style attack while flanking. If the two aren't split up, they can use the regular d6 damage.
I don't think that I'd be able to sell that idea as balanced since you'd be doubling up on actions per round and then teaming that up with what would end up as a combined sneak attack that would output more damage than a normal sneak attacking class between the beguiler and the eidolon. It's an interesting idea, but it's way too powerful to reasonably put into the conversion.

Yeah, that'd definitely be broken.


I wasn't even thinking about the action economy angle, you guys are definitely right it would be really overboard.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
SylverFox wrote:
I wasn't even thinking about the action economy angle, you guys are definitely right it would be really overboard.

It's no big deal really. With as many moving parts as pathfinder has it can often be easy to overlook a particular aspect of an ability. That's part of the reason I solicit comments on my ideas, just in case there's a blind spot of my own that others can identify before it makes it into the conversion itself.


3 people marked this as a favorite.

ertw,
I just registered in order to say a big thank you for all the obviously hard work you've put into this conversion. It's absolutely fantastic. It's even greater to find that you're still keeping it going, adding new content, even though its been years since you first put this all together. Bravo, this is great work and it deserves to be recognized. The vivid flavor you've built into the class is going to be instrumental in the campaign I'm currently putting together.

cheers,
Fenris


Fenistrade wrote:

ertw,

I just registered in order to say a big thank you for all the obviously hard work you've put into this conversion. It's absolutely fantastic. It's even greater to find that you're still keeping it going, adding new content, even though its been years since you first put this all together. Bravo, this is great work and it deserves to be recognized. The vivid flavor you've built into the class is going to be instrumental in the campaign I'm currently putting together.

cheers,
Fenris

Thank you so much for the kind words. Posts like this really make my day, and it's always so great to hear from people who just started using the conversion. I'd love to hear any stories you have from your future sessions using the beguiler.


So I've been working on the finer points of the Wayfaring Haunter archetype and need to make a decision on something that I'd like to put to you fine people: given that they are primarily based out of Alkenstar, would you be interested in this archetype being proficient with firearms? Or would you prefer that they only gain more traditional Kelishite weapon proficiencies?


ertw wrote:
So I've been working on the finer points of the Wayfaring Haunter archetype and need to make a decision on something that I'd like to put to you fine people: given that they are primarily based out of Alkenstar, would you be interested in this archetype being proficient with firearms? Or would you prefer that they only gain more traditional Kelishite weapon proficiencies?

I wouldn't have a problem with them having proficiency with firearms since it's fitting thematically and the early firearms you'd find in Alkenstar aren't particularly overpowered.


I'm not crazy about firearms in my fantasy gaming in general, so I probably wouldn't end up using that. It might be an interesting option to give the character a choice: they can either be a traditionalist who wields a scimitar (I assume this is what you're referring to when you mention Kelishite weapons) as her desert dwelling forefathers did, or a revolutionary who has adapted to her new home and its technology.


ertw wrote:
So I've been working on the finer points of the Wayfaring Haunter archetype and need to make a decision on something that I'd like to put to you fine people: given that they are primarily based out of Alkenstar, would you be interested in this archetype being proficient with firearms? Or would you prefer that they only gain more traditional Kelishite weapon proficiencies?

A beguiler with a gun just doesn't sound right to me.


SylverFox wrote:
I'm not crazy about firearms in my fantasy gaming in general, so I probably wouldn't end up using that. It might be an interesting option to give the character a choice: they can either be a traditionalist who wields a scimitar (I assume this is what you're referring to when you mention Kelishite weapons) as her desert dwelling forefathers did, or a revolutionary who has adapted to her new home and its technology.

This seems like a decent compromise between the two positions. If you don't want to use a beguiler with a gun, or your DM doesn't allow firearms, you can fallback to the traditionalist proficiencies.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

ertw,
Thank you for your hard work on this conversion. When reading about the beguiler, it becomes very clear that you put a great effort in it. This let the quality being at least on par with the best first party products. Moreover, the steady additions are always fun and exciting.

That said, i want to ask a bit about the razorbow. Does this work, with the Shadowgraft Skirmisher Archetype? I assume it does not, but in my mind it would be extremly fitting, especially, with the Razor Style.

Second question: How does the Razor Step feat work with the razorbow? How many attacks do you get on level 8 when you combine range with melee combat? Do you can still use things like rapid shot and combine this with melee attacks? How many melee attacks would you get then?

Last but not least: Would it be possible to craft a razorbow with more than +0 composite part or is this (balancing wise?) not allowed?

EDIT: How can one achieve the Razor step feat with a working build? Because with 7 feats(3 Style feats, Two-weapon-fighting, Improved TWF, EWP, Far-shot) and no bonus feats even with Human/Half-elf it does not come together before level 11. And this does not include something like Ritual Blade.

I don't like Guns in fantasy setting, and as loud and
conspicuous weapons i don't find it fitting for a beguiler.


Thank you so much for your kind words. I'm really glad you've enjoyed looking over the conversion!

Sparone wrote:
That said, i want to ask a bit about the razorbow. Does this work, with the Shadowgraft Skirmisher Archetype? I assume it does not, but in my mind it would be extremly fitting, especially, with the Razor Style.

The razorbow doesn't work with the shadowgraft skirmisher's invocation since that ability specifically calls out melee slashing weapons and, while it does have a slashing blades that can be used in melee, the razorbow is classified as a ranged weapon. At higher levels you can actually turn your shadowblade into a razorbow with the stygian point ability though.

Sparone wrote:
Second question: How does the Razor Step feat work with the razorbow? How many attacks do you get on level 8 when you combine range with melee combat? Do you can still use things like rapid shot and combine this with melee attacks? How many melee attacks would you get then?

Razor step is intended to work like a normal full attack, but allowing you to switch the way you wield the razorbow as a free action between attacks. It's akin to a character with the quick draw feat switching weapons during her full attack sequence (which AFAIK is legal to do since she can drop her weapons as a free action and draw another weapon as a free action). The rules don't give a great deal of guidance about how to go about adjudicating the interaction of feats like TWF and rapid shot so that's mostly something you should discuss with your GM; the way I'd call it would be as follows:

  • Rapid shot/manyshot can only be used if the first attack is ranged, the attack penalty applies to all subsequent attacks even if they're melee attacks.
  • Two-weapon fighting can be used on either the first (at +6 BAB minus TWF penalties) or second (at +1 BAB minus TWF penalties) iterative attacks, but you'll need improved two-weapon fighting if you want to apply to both.

Sparone wrote:
Last but not least: Would it be possible to craft a razorbow with more than +0 composite part or is this (balancing wise?) not allowed?

Yes, the razorbow can be made with more than a +0 Strength bonus. Like the composite longbow the price listed on the table is the base cost for the weapon and the cost increases by 100 gp for each point of Strength bonus you wish to add.

Sparone wrote:
EDIT: How can one achieve the Razor step feat with a working build? Because with 7 feats(3 Style feats, Two-weapon-fighting, Improved TWF, EWP, Far-shot) and no bonus feats even with Human/Half-elf it does not come together before level 11. And this does not include something like Ritual Blade.

The razorbow is powerful because of the versatility it offers, but that versatility comes with two costs associated with it:

  • It takes a lot of feats to use properly.
  • It costs a lot of gp to enchant.

Unfortunately part of the balancing decision that I have to make for these things involves taking into consideration things like human characters that dip a few levels of slayer or fighter to bring things online sooner than I would anticipate for a pure beguiler.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

Hi Ertw,
I've been a big fan of your beguiler for a while now. I put together some VMC rules for the beguiler that my group plays with and just wanted to get your comments and criticisms.


JammyPanda wrote:

Hi Ertw,

I've been a big fan of your beguiler for a while now. I put together some VMC rules for the beguiler that my group plays with and just wanted to get your comments and criticisms.

I know ertw has mentioned earlier that he's not fond of the idea of allowing access to higher level order powers through methods other than taking those levels in beguiler, so the 11th and 19th level VMC features might not be to his liking.


SylverFox wrote:
JammyPanda wrote:

Hi Ertw,

I've been a big fan of your beguiler for a while now. I put together some VMC rules for the beguiler that my group plays with and just wanted to get your comments and criticisms.
I know ertw has mentioned earlier that he's not fond of the idea of allowing access to higher level order powers through methods other than taking those levels in beguiler, so the 11th and 19th level VMC features might not be to his liking.

I'm aware of that, but I think it's in line with other VMCs like sorcerer and wizard that provide access to the higher level bloodline powers and school powers. Really, I'd just like to hear Ertw's take on these rules.


With Ultimate Intrigue out for a while now, it seems like the vigilante offers a really adaptable chassis for a number of different types of classes. Do you think the beguiler might be better served as a spellcasting vigilante archetype like the warlock?


1 person marked this as a favorite.
JammyPanda wrote:

Hi Ertw,

I've been a big fan of your beguiler for a while now. I put together some VMC rules for the beguiler that my group plays with and just wanted to get your comments and criticisms.

As Sylver said, I'm personally not crazy about the idea of opening up 7th and 13th level order powers up to everybody, but if your group is using it and it works for you, more power to you.

HoneyCombRed wrote:
With Ultimate Intrigue out for a while now, it seems like the vigilante offers a really adaptable chassis for a number of different types of classes. Do you think the beguiler might be better served as a spellcasting vigilante archetype like the warlock?

It definitely seems like an option, but I'm pretty happy with the results I've gotten out of the beguiler as a standalone class and a 9th level caster. As I said back when people made the same point about the mesmerist, if you're interested in rebuilding the beguiler as a vigilante archetype that's great, but I'll keep working on this beguiler for those who want to use it.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
ertw wrote:
JammyPanda wrote:

Hi Ertw,

I've been a big fan of your beguiler for a while now. I put together some VMC rules for the beguiler that my group plays with and just wanted to get your comments and criticisms.
As Sylver said, I'm personally not crazy about the idea of opening up 7th and 13th level order powers up to everybody, but if your group is using it and it works for you, more power to you.

But how is that any different than other types of class features that are opened up in this way? Things like the sorcerer bloodlines and wizard school powers have multiple avenues of access such as VMCs, archetypes and feats.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
JammyPanda wrote:
ertw wrote:
JammyPanda wrote:

Hi Ertw,

I've been a big fan of your beguiler for a while now. I put together some VMC rules for the beguiler that my group plays with and just wanted to get your comments and criticisms.
As Sylver said, I'm personally not crazy about the idea of opening up 7th and 13th level order powers up to everybody, but if your group is using it and it works for you, more power to you.
But how is that any different than other types of class features that are opened up in this way? Things like the sorcerer bloodlines and wizard school powers have multiple avenues of access such as VMCs, archetypes and feats.

My general concern is that most beguiler order powers offer significant synergy with a number of non-beguiler classes, much more than bloodlines or school powers. While it may be the case that it ends up reasonably balanced when trading out half your feats for the VMC, I'm still nervous about the prospect of letting unexpected combinations of order powers and other class' features resulting in problematic increases in power. If you do end up using this in your group, I would be interested to know how it goes.


Any update on the new archetype? It's been a month since we last heard anything.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
SylverFox wrote:
Any update on the new archetype? It's been a month since we last heard anything.

Sorry about the lack of updates, folks. Life's just been very busy and I haven't had time to work on the beguiler too much. I've also been a little distracted since I had another idea for a new archetype/order that I'm pretty excited about.

The basic idea is that there is a powerful fey creature in Nidal that's posing as a member of the Umbral Court; this creature feeds off of the suffering of that nation and the surrounding area. Knowledge of its very existence has put the entire guild at risk, so they struck a deal with it: they keep its secret and give it a group of loyal beguilers, and it doesn't hunt down every last beguiler who knows its secret. The beguilers that serve this creature take on some of its characteristics, including a limited wildshape-type ability that allows them to take the form of a small group of raven-like and wolf-like creatures.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

A witch/beguiler hybrid class?


1 person marked this as a favorite.
ertw wrote:
The basic idea is that there is a powerful fey creature in Nidal that's posing as a member of the Umbral Court

Is... is it a Vilderavn?


Penumbral Shadow wrote:
ertw wrote:
The basic idea is that there is a powerful fey creature in Nidal that's posing as a member of the Umbral Court
Is... is it a Vilderavn?

What's a vilderavn?


3 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

The kickass fey thing from the latest bestiary.
Link


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Kryzbyn wrote:

The kickass fey thing from the latest bestiary.

Link

It's just not the same without the picture.


3 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Viola!
Pic


2 people marked this as a favorite.
SylverFox wrote:
Penumbral Shadow wrote:
ertw wrote:
The basic idea is that there is a powerful fey creature in Nidal that's posing as a member of the Umbral Court
Is... is it a Vilderavn?
What's a vilderavn?

As Kryzbyn pointed out it's a very cool fey creature from bestiary 5. It seems like it's gained a lot of popularity in the past few weeks in the pathfinder thread on /tg/ as an exciting new alternative to the boring old lich-as-big-bad trope.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Kryzbyn wrote:

The kickass fey thing from the latest bestiary.

Link
Penumbral Shadow wrote:
SylverFox wrote:
Penumbral Shadow wrote:
ertw wrote:
The basic idea is that there is a powerful fey creature in Nidal that's posing as a member of the Umbral Court
Is... is it a Vilderavn?
What's a vilderavn?
As Kryzbyn pointed out it's a very cool fey creature from bestiary 5. It seems like it's gained a lot of popularity in the past few weeks in the pathfinder thread on /tg/ as an exciting new alternative to the boring old lich-as-big-bad trope.

That's really neat, I hadn't seen that creature before. It definitely seems like a good villain creature.


3 people marked this as a favorite.
Penumbral Shadow wrote:
ertw wrote:
The basic idea is that there is a powerful fey creature in Nidal that's posing as a member of the Umbral Court
Is... is it a Vilderavn?

How on earth did you figure that out? I was intrigued by the valravn of folklore (which I discovered by way of the recently opened roller coaster with the same name) and found out that pathfinder had it's own version of that creature called a vilderavn. Upon reading the bestiary entry I knew I had to do something that combined one with the beguilers which is how the order of the vilderavn was born.

Since the cat's out of the bag, here's the guild description:

Vilderavn's Court:

Vilderavn's Court
Location: Pangolais (Nidal).
Sigil: The taloned foot of a raven on a crimson field.
Orders Trained: Order of the Vilderavn.
Associated Factions: none.

While the beguilers wield the power of secrets like a sword, that blade occasionally cuts both ways. Such was the case when they discovered that a member of Nidal's Umbral Court was actually a vilderavn; an immensely powerful shapechanging fey creature that feasted on the suffering and bloodshed that abounded in that shadowy nation and the surrounding countries. With few members that could even challenge such a creature and the knowledge that a vilderavn would often have those who discovered its true identity assassinated, the guild had only one choice: to make a deal with it. The beguilers' magic and cunning intrigued the bloodthirsty spirit, and in return for not focusing its ire on the guild the beguilers agreed to form a guild in its service.

The vilderavn moulded the Court's beguilers in its own twisted image, creating a uniquely powerful order comprised of the most twisted and sadistic beguilers Golarion has ever seen. Like the Order of the Pillory, the Court does not consider itself beholden to the rulings of the Aspis Consorts and freely operates beyond Nidal's borders; sowing the seeds of discord and uprising amongst the populace within their own nation as well as neighbouring Cheliax, only to betray those they have tricked into sedition at the last moment to ensure their defeat. The Court also freely moves through Molthune and Nirmathas in order to renew hostilities between the two nations so that the vilderavn may feast upon those who fall in battle. Furthermore, they have even been known to venture alongside their dark patron into Belkzen, Ustalav and even as far as the Worldwound in search of suffering souls.

The Aspis Consorts are well aware that, while the vilderavn and its Court currently pay little mind to other beguilers, the capricious nature of the fey makes this truce a delicate matter. Among the few beguilers outside of the Court who are aware of the vilderavn's existence, rumours abound about all varieties of contingencies ranging from risky deals with even more powerful entities to secret squads of elite beguilers specially trained to counter the Court and their master, but the truth of the matter remains a closely guarded secret held only by the Consorts themselves.

Leadership: After the orders of the vilderavn itself, the guild follows the whims of the Court's Second. This position, gifted to the vilderavn's favoured follower, is currently held by Nixia Zandalaru (NE female changeling beguiler 18), a ruthless witchborn creature whom is feared as much by the members of the Court as she is by those outside her guild. According to legends, her black hag mother once challenged the vilderavn for control of Nixia's soul; Nixia stood in as the vilderavn's champion and slaughtered the crone herself.

Kryzbyn wrote:
A witch/beguiler hybrid class?

The powers are more reminiscent of the vilderavn's signature powers. As such it's more of a shapeshifter base than a witch hybrid.


I like the story for the Vilderavn's Court, but why is the guild as a whole afraid of a single CR 16 creature? Even the leader of that guild (being a 18th level beguiler) should be able to take it down one-on-one.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
SylverFox wrote:
I like the story for the Vilderavn's Court, but why is the guild as a whole afraid of a single CR 16 creature? Even the leader of that guild (being a 18th level beguiler) should be able to take it down one-on-one.

It's not just a single CR 16 creature. The Vilderavn is a clever, scheming creature (much like the beguilers which makes the two a pretty natural fit) so it isn't ever going to be alone. It will set up camp in an area and attract allies to its service through lies, intimidation, or bribery. An established Vilderavn is incredibly dangerous because it's likely employing a vast network of spies and assassins to guard its secrets. As a member of the Umbral Court, this Vilderavn probably also has significant sway over a large number of Umbral Court Agents and the Nidalese army itself.


Penumbral Shadow wrote:
SylverFox wrote:
I like the story for the Vilderavn's Court, but why is the guild as a whole afraid of a single CR 16 creature? Even the leader of that guild (being a 18th level beguiler) should be able to take it down one-on-one.
It's not just a single CR 16 creature. The Vilderavn is a clever, scheming creature (much like the beguilers which makes the two a pretty natural fit) so it isn't ever going to be alone. It will set up camp in an area and attract allies to its service through lies, intimidation, or bribery. An established Vilderavn is incredibly dangerous because it's likely employing a vast network of spies and assassins to guard its secrets. As a member of the Umbral Court, this Vilderavn probably also has significant sway over a large number of Umbral Court Agents and the Nidalese army itself.

On top of this point, I'd also like to point out that high level characters are pretty rare on Golarion; most guildmasters outlined in BotIS are around level 10.


ertw wrote:
JammyPanda wrote:
ertw wrote:
JammyPanda wrote:

Hi Ertw,

I've been a big fan of your beguiler for a while now. I put together some VMC rules for the beguiler that my group plays with and just wanted to get your comments and criticisms.
As Sylver said, I'm personally not crazy about the idea of opening up 7th and 13th level order powers up to everybody, but if your group is using it and it works for you, more power to you.
But how is that any different than other types of class features that are opened up in this way? Things like the sorcerer bloodlines and wizard school powers have multiple avenues of access such as VMCs, archetypes and feats.
My general concern is that most beguiler order powers offer significant synergy with a number of non-beguiler classes, much more than bloodlines or school powers. While it may be the case that it ends up reasonably balanced when trading out half your feats for the VMC, I'm still nervous about the prospect of letting unexpected combinations of order powers and other class' features resulting in problematic increases in power. If you do end up using this in your group, I would be interested to know how it goes.

We have been using these rules, but not for very long. Haven't run into a trouble with them yet. In all honesty, even if it did severely increase the power of a martial character they'd still be trailing far behind your tier 1 casters, so my party doesn't particularly have qualms about giving martials nice things.


JammyPanda wrote:
We have been using these rules, but not for very long. Haven't run into a trouble with them yet. In all honesty, even if it did severely increase the power of a martial character they'd still be trailing far behind your tier 1 casters, so my party doesn't particularly have qualms about giving martials nice things.

I'd be more worried about giving wizards and sorcerers access to even more tools that synergize too well with their casting abilities (especially with orders like wandering heart or counterfeit blood). After all, casters have less use for feats than martial characters and so are less penalized for taking a VMC.


*waits patiently for very cool sounding options that have been teased*


I'm a big fan of this conversion, in fact I'm a little embarrassed to admit that I went for about a month before I realized it wasn't an official paizo product. Have you ever considered making a psionic archetype for the beguiler? It seems like a pretty natural fit.

801 to 847 of 847 << first < prev | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | next > last >>
Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Conversions / Beguiler conversion for Pathfinder All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.