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JammyPanda wrote:

A few days ago the topic came up on /pfg/ of how you could make the mesmer from Guild Wars 2 in pathfinder and I suggested that this conversion might make a good baseline for it. For those unfamiliar the mesmer specializes in using illusions both offensively and defensively. I put together a basic outline and I was hoping to get some thoughts:

Order of the Shattered Looking Glass

1st level order power would grant a mirror image-like spell-like ability (useable 3+Int times per day), but as he leveled up they would become more "real." The Beguiler would get +1 to attack and damage rolls which would increase by +1 at levels 5, 10, 15 and 20 (like a Slayer's studied target). Maybe this bonus would have a maximum equal to the number of images present.

7th level order power would allow the beguiler to shatter any number of these images as a swift action to do a fixed amount of damage to everybody the Beguiler threatens (Reflex for half). Maybe at higher levels it could impose a negative condition on those in the area instead of the damage.

13th level order power would allow some of the images to actually make attacks. One attack at Beguiler's highest BAB at 13th level, a second attack at highest BAB-5 at 16th level (as long as two images exist), a third attack at highest BAB-10 at 19th level (as long as three images exist).

Not sure about the capstone order power yet.

Would this idea be interesting to anybody?

Sorry about the wait, but I just had time to sit down and go over this. I think I could use parts of this with the new archetype I mentioned on the 18th. I'm still in the process of drawing up the outline, but I'll try to post the basic idea over the next few days after I've had a chance to map it all out.

Awesome! I'm excited!

A few days ago the topic came up on /pfg/ of how you could make the mesmer from Guild Wars 2 in pathfinder and I suggested that this conversion might make a good baseline for it. For those unfamiliar the mesmer specializes in using illusions both offensively and defensively. I put together a basic outline and I was hoping to get some thoughts:

Order of the Shattered Looking Glass

1st level order power would grant a mirror image-like spell-like ability (useable 3+Int times per day), but as he leveled up they would become more "real." The Beguiler would get +1 to attack and damage rolls which would increase by +1 at levels 5, 10, 15 and 20 (like a Slayer's studied target). Maybe this bonus would have a maximum equal to the number of images present.

7th level order power would allow the beguiler to shatter any number of these images as a swift action to do a fixed amount of damage to everybody the Beguiler threatens (Reflex for half). Maybe at higher levels it could impose a negative condition on those in the area instead of the damage.

13th level order power would allow some of the images to actually make attacks. One attack at Beguiler's highest BAB at 13th level, a second attack at highest BAB-5 at 16th level (as long as two images exist), a third attack at highest BAB-10 at 19th level (as long as three images exist).

Not sure about the capstone order power yet.

Would this idea be interesting to anybody?

JammyPanda wrote:

ertw wrote:

JammyPanda wrote:

Hi Ertw,

I've been a big fan of your beguiler for a while now. I put together some VMC rules for the beguiler that my group plays with and just wanted to get your comments and criticisms.

As Sylver said, I'm personally not crazy about the idea of opening up 7th and 13th level order powers up to everybody, but if your group is using it and it works for you, more power to you.

But how is that any different than other types of class features that are opened up in this way? Things like the sorcerer bloodlines and wizard school powers have multiple avenues of access such as VMCs, archetypes and feats.

My general concern is that most beguiler order powers offer significant synergy with a number of non-beguiler classes, much more than bloodlines or school powers. While it may be the case that it ends up reasonably balanced when trading out half your feats for the VMC, I'm still nervous about the prospect of letting unexpected combinations of order powers and other class' features resulting in problematic increases in power. If you do end up using this in your group, I would be interested to know how it goes.

We have been using these rules, but not for very long. Haven't run into a trouble with them yet. In all honesty, even if it did severely increase the power of a martial character they'd still be trailing far behind your tier 1 casters, so my party doesn't particularly have qualms about giving martials nice things.

JammyPanda wrote:

Hi Ertw,

I've been a big fan of your beguiler for a while now. I put together some VMC rules for the beguiler that my group plays with and just wanted to get your comments and criticisms.

As Sylver said, I'm personally not crazy about the idea of opening up 7th and 13th level order powers up to everybody, but if your group is using it and it works for you, more power to you.

But how is that any different than other types of class features that are opened up in this way? Things like the sorcerer bloodlines and wizard school powers have multiple avenues of access such as VMCs, archetypes and feats.

JammyPanda wrote:

Hi Ertw,

I've been a big fan of your beguiler for a while now. I put together some VMC rules for the beguiler that my group plays with and just wanted to get your comments and criticisms.

I know ertw has mentioned earlier that he's not fond of the idea of allowing access to higher level order powers through methods other than taking those levels in beguiler, so the 11th and 19th level VMC features might not be to his liking.

I'm aware of that, but I think it's in line with other VMCs like sorcerer and wizard that provide access to the higher level bloodline powers and school powers. Really, I'd just like to hear Ertw's take on these rules.

Hi Ertw,
I've been a big fan of your beguiler for a while now. I put together some VMC rules for the beguiler that my group plays with and just wanted to get your comments and criticisms.