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Rather than just complain about the mistakenly low mental stats the empyreal lords got in Bestiary 4 I decided to do something about...and then some.
Here are the corrected stats for the empyreal lords. Unofficial, unfortunately, but this will hopefully encourage James and Wes to ride herd on whoever stats up future demigods...particularly Arshea!
I eagerly anticipate any comments, especially from any freelancers I presumptuously corrected. ;)
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Still taking it all in, but:
Gotta say, thanks for doing the heavy lifting on the number crunching. Cerny and Vildeis did need that mental stat boost, and this saves a lot of work on the user end for now. :)
I'm not sure Cernunnos and Korada should lose fly speeds due to a lack of wings, considering that they might just be Supermanning it, but that's something that's going to vary by specific Empyreal/Demon Lord/etc.
The one I'm most likely going to actually use(if I ever run that mythic campaign) is Vildeis, and she'll probably be keeping her [pain] spells for flavor reasons. At most, I'd probably just add something about how she casts them in such a way that they don't count as [evil], like the original juju oracle did and the white necromancer still does for their related spells. I don't see her using those spells so much out of a sense of sadism, but as a bit of overflow of all the pain she and the multiverse are feeling, and she's momentarily sharing it with those who are causing it to wake them up to what they're really doing. A bit of that "30 hours of pain, all for you" scene from The Crow, perhaps. :) (and honestly, they're excellent subdual spells, ultimately more merciful than lethal spells even.)
Mark of justice is an absolutely perfect addition to her list. Especially considering the bit about her leaving broken (but living!) fiends in her wake.
Thanks for the update. I like most of the changes, though I feel I'd probably keep the flight speeds on them. Hopefully this'll prevent future Empyreal lords from future attempts at mediocre stats. I really wish the same care that was done to the Demon Lords and Great Old Ones were also done to the Empyreal Lords. I was really looking forward to the Empyreal Lords and was pretty let down by their treatment. I only wish they could be errata'd with some of these changes, since as it stands, the Empyreal Lords are pretty mediocre and mechanically uninteresting for their CR.
Gotta say, thanks for doing the heavy lifting on the number crunching.
Sure! Tinkering with monsters is fun. :)
I'm not sure Cernunnos and Korada should lose fly speeds due to a lack of wings, considering that they might just be Supermanning it, but that's something that's going to vary by specific Empyreal/Demon Lord/etc.
I could see Korada floating yogi style but Cernunnos seems to earthy to fly without wings. Note that he has both at-will shapechange and wild shape.
I don't see [Videlis] using [pain] spells so much out of a sense of sadism, but as a bit of overflow of all the pain she and the multiverse are feeling, and she's momentarily sharing it with those who are causing it to wake them up to what they're really doing. A bit of that "30 hours of pain, all for you" scene from The Crow, perhaps. :) (and honestly, they're excellent subdual spells, ultimately more merciful than lethal spells even.)
Sound arguments, but I'll still have to give it some thought and consultation.
Mark of justice is an absolutely perfect addition to her list.
Thanks, I love it when I'm perfect. :)
Hopefully this'll prevent future Empyreal lords from future attempts at mediocre stats.
Maybe, but I haven't gotten many comments here so I'm not sure how much it's in demand. I'd really like to see commentary from folks at Paizo, though I suspect they can't look at my work for legal reasons. I have seen some anonymous people check out my Google doc, though.
Personally, I feel the best means for preventing future sloppiness is polite insistence.
Isn't it Vildeis, not Videlis?
Isn't it Vildeis, not Videlis?
*checks*
You're right! I'll keep that in mind from now on so I don't embarrass myself.
Besides my mistake, now fixed, any other comments on my corrections?
I think Cernunnos could be Large still. The increased ability scores and most of the changed spell-like abilities and spells make sense, though I'm kinda with Mikaze on Vildeis's pain spells. There's a lot in the blocks, though, being such high-CR characters, so I may have missed something. I still found a Videlis in the document in the changes section, so I'd give it another once-over.
Beetle wings are kind of earthy. Bumble bee wings are symbolically correct. It's supposed to be impossible for bumble bees to fly.
Wait, beetle wings? What are we talking about here?
Wings for earthy creatures. Lots of beetles dig and fly.
Beetle wings are kind of earthy. Bumble bee wings are symbolically correct. It's supposed to be impossible for bumble bees to fly.
The Bumblebee thing has been proven false, I'm afraid.
(WARNING: while that site is snopes.com, McAfree doesn't like it.)
The entire point of that is that science can sometimes miss the blindingly obvious.
But yes, beetles and bees are both "earthy" but can fly.
You need to upload these to d20pfsrd somehow.
You should write up Ragathiel. That would be awesome. :)
Wings for earthy creatures. Lots of beetles dig and fly.
You mean for Cernunnos? Nah, he doesn't seem like a beetle kinda guy.
You need to upload these to d20pfsrd somehow.
I did contact them a while back but I'm waiting for the guy who lets me join. I think I need to join first before I can set up a lab.
You should write up Ragathiel. That would be awesome. :)I am considering writing up more for fun...
Any other empyreal lords anyone's interested in?
Is it just me or does Paizo's monster designers seem to be making celestials weak alot of the time?
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Is it just me or does Paizo's monster designers seem to be making celestials weak a lot of the time?
I've been comparing mental stats and haven't found trends of celestials being behind other outsiders of their CR, I haven't formally checked powers yet but there doesn't seem any weakness at a glance.
My spreadsheet's a work-in-progress but I can post it anyway if people are interested.
Is it just me or does Paizo's monster designers seem to be making celestials weak a lot of the time?
That's why they need mortal heroes. If they were powerful, a lot of good-aligned adventurers would be out of a job!
Glorion is contested territory. If they slugged it out all would be fire and chaos. Not the good kind, the bad kind.
Glorion is contested territory. If they slugged it out all would be fire and chaos. Not the good kind, the bad kind.
The most recent canon supports this. From Pathfinder #73 (sidebar, p.54): "Ancient laws and edicts beyond mortal comprehension prevent [Iomedae], or any of the deities, from taking a direct hand in mortal affairs, even when those affairs are threatened by a demigod like Deskari."
Also, I'm still waiting for a response from the d20pfsrd people. I've sent three emails already...