Hi all :)
I'm new to PFS and really curious about why certain things are banned. I'm sure other are too, and thought it could be good to have a place to ask.
The one I'm wondering about is the Pain Taster PrC:
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/n-r/pain-taste r
It doesn't require you to be evil, it's not over powered (that I can see). There's no random factor (like Wild Rager, another favourite I wish I could use)...so why is it banned?
It doesn't require you to be evil, it's not over powered (that I can see). There's no random factor (like Wild Rager, another favourite I wish I could use)...so why is it banned?
Might have something to do with being a drow related PrC from second darkness.
It just seem so fitting for a worshipper of Zon-Kuthon, shame that it's not allowed.
It just seem so fitting for a worshipper of Zon-Kuthon, shame that it's not allowed.
Zon-Kuthon himself isn't very child friendly imo. Luckily there are still plenty of other ways to show him your devotion. Invulnerable barbarian can also gets a massive DR against non lethal. There are a few tank builds that crank that to 11 by turning normal damage into non lethal. Alchemist can mummify themselves and become completely immune and do all sorts of other nasty things to themselves. And anyone can be a follower and just do all their worshipping at home.
Currently on my first PFS character ever, still lvl 1, Unarmed Fighter with Boar Style, built with straight damage in mind.
Actually considering going Alchemist for the mutagen buff, and character development (he's dumb , int 7, but it trying so hard to learn), with 20str and Throw Anything, he can actually do more damage throw the bomb components then when he tries he hardest to make it work (max of 4 fire to the target and 1 non-lethal to the splash).
Could go Barbarian, but I wanted a different feel. Will probably got for 2lvls in Alchemist, maybe 4, then back to Unarmed Fighter.
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Child friendly...you're playing a character that runs around killing things..all the time...and a lot of the descriptions are pretty no child friendly. Look at the Sanguine Bloodline power, in the middle of combat, you start drink the blood of your enemies...very child friendly that is..
Child friendly...you're playing a character that runs around killing things..all the time...and a lot of the descriptions are pretty no child friendly. Look at the Sanguine Bloodline power, in the middle of combat, you start drink the blood of your enemies...very child friendly that is..
You also extort people to get your full cash from some scenarios and steal a lot of stuff. Just look at what people do during Severing Ties. 3 groups did it at the same time once and not one didn't... well I shouldn't say.
Anyways, if you still level 1 you can still rebuild for free(you can until you play 1 game as a level 2 character). I would've suggested vivisectionist if you weren't interested in bombs but that's actually banned too(but really, who doesn't love blowing things up?) I don't know what a fighter can do that a barbarian can't mind you, but I know plenty a barbarian can that a fighter can't.(rage powers kick butt!) Just trying to offer ways to go about it.
For the same reason evil stuff is banned, it has a requirement of "extensive torture" and no one wants to sit down to a table with another player who has a character based on torture.
You'd be shocked. I know plenty of people who would play with that. I just wouldn't want it as my poster boy or in public locations, because you know, children and mothers.
Some things are just better left for home games.Like weapon cords and spring-loaded wrist sheaths. :-)
I'm not sure if that's the same thing... I know there's a word I'm looking for here.
Is that word Bacon?
No, but bacon is always a good thing and always sure to derail the topic.
Have I mentioned I love bacon today?
One thing I fail to understand is why there is so much material banned, presumably for child-innapropriate content, [b]when there is a nation of devil-worshipping evil Chelaxians [b]as a sanctioned PFS faction. This is clearly not a game for naive nor impressionable children, and is rife with adult content and themes. That's okay,most of the gamers I know are in our 30's, or at least mature enough to handle said content. [/rant]
One thing I fail to understand is why there is so much material banned, presumably for child-innapropriate content, [b]when there is a nation of devil-worshipping evil Chelaxians [b]as a sanctioned PFS faction. This is clearly not a game for naive nor impressionable children, and is rife with adult content and themes. That's okay,most of the gamers I know are in our 30's, or at least mature enough to handle said content. [/rant]
I think it's not to keep it child-appropriate, but more to ensure there's no issues mixing good and evil (not necessarily in alignment, but in the general feel) characters at the same table. That can be enough of an issue in normal games, but with random people it could be a nightmare to handle.
The fact these things are in the books to start with means they're expecting people to read them, and not just skip those sections because they're playing PFS.
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One thing I fail to understand is why there is so much material banned, presumably for child-innapropriate content, [b]when there is a nation of devil-worshipping evil Chelaxians [b]as a sanctioned PFS faction. This is clearly not a game for naive nor impressionable children, and is rife with adult content and themes. That's okay,most of the gamers I know are in our 30's, or at least mature enough to handle said content. [/rant]
Because some of the more jerkish players in the at large community will use that material to abuse fellow players at the table.
Just like banning Evil characters, some material is banned to keep people from being *that guy*.
-Skeld
How evil the society is and how evil you can be is probably a thread of its own. Safe to say in a public setting its probably better to at least pretend to be good.
Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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I'm not sure if that's the same thing... I know there's a word I'm looking for here.Some things are just better left for home games.Like weapon cords and spring-loaded wrist sheaths. :-)
Woohoo! Bacon!
...wait...am I late to this party?...
I'm not sure if that's the same thing... I know there's a word I'm looking for here.Some things are just better left for home games.Like weapon cords and spring-loaded wrist sheaths. :-)Woohoo! Bacon!
...wait...am I late to this party?...
You aren't late to the party unless its dead. Then your a necromancer...
And yes, your too late to join in on the attempt to derail it with bacon the first time, but its never too late for bacon.
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Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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I'm not sure if that's the same thing... I know there's a word I'm looking for here.Some things are just better left for home games.Like weapon cords and spring-loaded wrist sheaths. :-)Woohoo! Bacon!
...wait...am I late to this party?...
You aren't late to the party unless its dead. Then your a necromancer...
And yes, your too late to join in on the attempt to derail it with bacon the first time, but its never too late for bacon.
Nah. I'm pretty good at beating dead horses, too. That won't dissuade me. (-;
Also, last I checked the Pain Taster was 3.5 class, and has never been updated by Paizo for Pathfinder.
It's listed in: Pathfinder Adventure Path volume 15: The Armageddon Echo
I saw it on the d20pfsrd site and really loved the feel and mechanics of the class. I can easily see someone being LN and following this PrC. It's not an evil thing. It's a neutral PrC, can you be evil while following it? yes...it that true of many of the approved ones? yes.
I really just don't see how it's a negative/bad/wrong/keep away from the children thing when compared to the rest of the game. In a game where you can use black arts to raise corpses to fight for you, routinely kill people, have various form of magic (which for ages was the thing that made parents hesitant about the game, the arcane arts, as it were), can play a semi-infernal creature (tiefling), and yet somehow being a masochist is a horrible thing?
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Nah. I'm pretty good at beating dead horses, too. That won't dissuade me. (-;I'm not sure if that's the same thing... I know there's a word I'm looking for here.Some things are just better left for home games.Like weapon cords and spring-loaded wrist sheaths. :-)Woohoo! Bacon!
...wait...am I late to this party?...
You aren't late to the party unless its dead. Then your a necromancer...
And yes, your too late to join in on the attempt to derail it with bacon the first time, but its never too late for bacon.
Horse Bacon, might work. Let me know how that works for ya.
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I just checked the Additional Resources. There is NOTHING from the entire Second Darkness AP which is allowed in PFS.
So, no need to argue that it should be included because it is not inherently evil (though, as you can see by the responses above, that is not necessarily a given).
Instead, you should be asking why the AP is not included. The most likely answer is that it is 3.5/OGL material, and the PFS staff has more recent and up-to-date PFRPG material to vet for PFS before looking over the older stuff.
THEN, after the AP is vetted (if ever), I would not be surprised if this PrC was still disallowed for the exact reason given by MrSin above: this is thematically a Drow prestige class.
Sorry, not everything is appropriate for this campaign in the eyes of those who organize it. All in all, they are much more inclusive than exclusive, especially compared to the majority of home games I've seen.
ah, I see..
Well, I am new to PFS and Pathfinder. I didn't know Pathfinder used to do 3.x stuff. I though it was it's own thing.
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The Pathfinder RPG is built off the framework of the 3.5 D&D OGL.
Paizo reworked some parts of it to balance some stuff out, but it has taken on a life of its own since then.
PFS Season 0 was still using 3.5 for PC and monsters/NPCs.
PFS Season 1 was the first PF season.
Currently, we just started Season 5 at Gencon in August, so we are just starting the 6th year of PFSOP. (Wow)
I always thought that if something was Pathfinder legal but not Pathfinder Society legal it was because the old crotchety decemvirate dudes didn't like it. So they 'ban' it from the organisation.
Just like how only recently they started to open up their hiring practices to include Tiefling and Aasimars. Old racist buggers are slowly starting to come into the current equal rights and such era. Or how you can't make your stats lower than 7 (5 with racial penalties), they just have min entry requirements. Remember the military and police enlisting requirements last century? 40 inch chest, 5'8'' etc etc.
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Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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In the Time Before Mike Brock the campaign coordinators were not as quick to sanction published content. We would be lucky to get an update to Additional Resources every six months. Most likely Second Darkness got caught in one of those times where the crunch of getting things published took precedence over giving us new toys to play with. After Mike started actually updating regularly, well, it's 3.5 stuff, so getting to it is not high on the priority list anymore.
...er I should clarify that I mean the NPC decemvirate, the hidden mysterious 10, don't want certain things or people in the Society because of bigotry or fear. I don't mean Paizo staff or any real person. Role-play explanation vs. real world explanation (which is usually to provide game balance and fair play).
Paizo rulz.
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In the Time Before Mike Brock the campaign coordinators were not as quick to sanction published content. We would be lucky to get an update to Additional Resources every six months. Most likely Second Darkness got caught in one of those times where the crunch of getting things published took precedence over giving us new toys to play with. After Mike started actually updating regularly, well, it's 3.5 stuff, so getting to it is not high on the priority list anymore.
Elves of Golarion, released the same month I believe as PF #15, only just got some additional looks and sanctioned content (the archery items).
FYI, Second Darkness premiered on the same day as PFS Season 0 (with a giant Drow interactive actually).
FYI(2), the first Pathfinder RPG AP volume was #25 (Council of Thieves 1), with the premiere of Season 1.
I don't know if bringing up the d20pfsrd is allowed on Paizo forums but the pain taster on that site is different than the one in the original text by a little.
The idea of it not being child friendly I think is completely off mark and I don't think they make decisions of content based off that philosophy.
Finally, I just would like to see some resources from my favorite AP. I agree with The Fox the real question should be why isn't anything from Second Darkness available? I salute Drogon for his attempt but I don't think this fully answers the question.
The idea of it not being child friendly I think is completely off mark and I don't think they make decisions of content based off that philosophy.
Sometimes they do. No Cannibalism(even drinking blood through blood transcription or being a vampire) or Vivisectionist, and if I remember right its related to that.
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I just wish the undead lord hadn't gotten the banhammer. As much as I'd love to play one in PFS it just ain't happening. I was a bit late to the party on that one.
Side note: I don't think I'd call blood money very child friendly either. You pretty much cut yourself up and transmute your blood to fuel your magics.
I just wish the undead lord hadn't gotten the banhammer. As much as I'd love to play one in PFS it just ain't happening. I was a bit late to the party on that one.
Vivisectionist was cut the week before I made the first draft of my melee alchemist. Probably would've played the guy beyond level one if it hadn't. Wasn't in to bombs and neither were the locals as far as I could tell.
Lots of questionable contest still.
Venture-Agent, United Kingdom—England—Sheffield
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Also, last I checked the Pain Taster was 3.5 class, and has never been updated by Paizo for Pathfinder.
Which is almost certainly the real reason it's not sanctioned for play. I mean, I'd love to level into Chevalier (which doesn't ring any of Pain-Taster's alarm bells) but it's not going to happen.
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Side note: I don't think I'd call blood money very child friendly either. You pretty much cut yourself up and transmute your blood to fuel your magics.
It's really kind of powerful too, since you can use blood money to fuel a raise dead (if you are a witch), though that costs a lot of strength (11) and will likely need a Restoration, either with or without another blood money (however restoration isn't on the witch list, unless you have the healing patron, of course 100 gold is cheaper then 5,000).
Of course by the level that a witch can do that, they are 1 level from retirement, and the Razmirian priest is 1 level short of being able to use a raise dead scroll without expending it (thus only ever paying the material component once).
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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I'd also point out that there's a difference between evil scenarios and evil PCs.
To use the Disappeared as an example, you end up in <redacted>'s bedroom. It is a kinky place. As a GM I simply shortened the description to "This room is full of things we won't talk about at the table, and a bed" when we had the 9 yo playing.
Likewise, as a GM, if I'm running a kids table, I know not to bring anything involving ZK.
It is more difficult to a 'bring your kid to dungeon day' when you don't know if the guy at the table is thinking of a radically different kind of dungeon.
(for example, I'd not play Mayim or my new man-whore at a table where we had kids, or I'd way tone them down.)
Kids ruin everything. There would be so many horrible things said if you did the full descriptions at our events.