I may or may not be the Iron Man


Advice

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Grand Lodge

So I was thinking, with people afraid of the whole "Firearms in my fantasy" why do they not mind a guy in power armor ravaging through the streets firing lasers and unleashing orbital nukes?

First - Folding Plate - Starts off as a brooch, becomes fullplate. the brooch becomes an emblem in center of the chest.

Platemail comes with two gauntlets for enchantment and fiddling with. Apply weapon wand to gauntlet.

Next, get a wand of scoring ray, or Searing light. Insert it into gauntlet.

Congrats, you are now the iron man!

Now, how to work this into a full character idea?


Flame mystery Oracle with a custom Curse involving the shrapnel in your chest seems like a good start. Ironman strikes me as a guy that floats on Charisma and intelligence, so Oracle is a decent fit there.


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Synth Summoner. Snap your fingers for armour that can grant you the ability to fly, take the head evolutions with breath attacks (fluff them as being the gauntlets), and since you can shape your eidolon however you imagine it, you can literally imagine it as appearing like Iron Man. Ta da! Plus, since you aren't spending coin on the Iron Man suit, you can afford to be the playboy who runs around and buys the bar, no, the neighbourhood a round.

Charisma powered, with evolving armour that represents an inventor tweaking his way to perfection.


Proley wrote:
[...] you can afford to be the playboy who runs around and buys the bar

It works better that way.


I'm making a Magus crafter to craft constructs using rules from Ultimate Magic to make Dr Doom Armor.

Grand Lodge

Proley wrote:

Synth Summoner. Snap your fingers for armour that can grant you the ability to fly, take the head evolutions with breath attacks (fluff them as being the gauntlets), and since you can shape your eidolon however you imagine it, you can literally imagine it as appearing like Iron Man. Ta da! Plus, since you aren't spending coin on the Iron Man suit, you can afford to be the playboy who runs around and buys the bar, no, the neighbourhood a round.

Charisma powered, with evolving armour that represents an inventor tweaking his way to perfection.

Up to 3 times per day though. Thats gonna be pretty rough to accomplish.


In Ultimate Magic are rules for building and modifying constructs. There is an option to wear a construct like armor. Additionally the construct fights alone if it is not worn as armor.

Quote:

Construct Armor

Requirements: Craft Construct, Craft Magic Arms and Armor, animate objects, the construct modified must be the same size as the creator

CR Increase: +1

Cost: 35,000 gp

This modification allows the construct to be worn like armor by its creator. So long as the creator wears it, the construct performs no independent actions, remaining under the control of the creator, and any attacks directed at the wearer damage the construct. When a construct is destroyed while serving as armor, the wearer loses all the benefits, but regains all the hindrances until the armor is removed, which takes the same amount of time that removing breastplate armor does. If the construct is still active, the creator can order the removal of the armor with a swift action, at which point the construct leaves the creator's space and enters a space adjacent to the creator. Donning construct armor takes a full-round action if the construct is still active. The creator cannot don a construct with this modification if the construct has been destroyed.

The construct's wearer retains his base attacks and saves. Construct armor counts as breastplate armor for purposes of determining AC, weight, Dexterity modifiers to AC, and chance of arcane spell failure.

Quote:

Construct Limb

Requirements: Craft Construct, Craft Magic Arms and Armor, animate objects, Small or Tiny construct

CR Increase: none

Cost: 27,000 gp

This modification can be performed on a Small or Tiny construct, such as an iron cobra or a homunculus. The creator modifies the construct such that she can slip it over her arm and control its actions as part of her own. The construct limb retains any melee attacks that the construct has, and the creator can use special attacks as if she were the construct (using the construct's attack statistics and effects), but treat the creator as the creature making attacks for the purpose of determining attacks of opportunity and other actions that could be triggered by an attack made by the creator.

The limb also provides the wearer with limited protection in combat, roughly equivalent to that of a heavy steel shield. The wearer is considered proficient in this shield. The wearer retains the remainder of her abilities.

A construct limb counts as a heavy steel shield for purposes of determining AC, weight, Dexterity modifiers to AC, and chance of arcane spell failure.


Kudaku wrote:
Flame mystery Oracle with a custom Curse involving the shrapnel in your chest seems like a good start. Ironman strikes me as a guy that floats on Charisma and intelligence, so Oracle is a decent fit there.

Just rename/reflavor that Daemon-related Curse and call it a day.

Grand Lodge

Eridan wrote:

In Ultimate Magic are rules for building and modifying constructs. There is an option to wear a construct like armor. Additionally the construct fights alone if it is not worn as armor.

Quote:

Construct Armor

Requirements: Craft Construct, Craft Magic Arms and Armor, animate objects, the construct modified must be the same size as the creator

CR Increase: +1

Cost: 35,000 gp

This modification allows the construct to be worn like armor by its creator. So long as the creator wears it, the construct performs no independent actions, remaining under the control of the creator, and any attacks directed at the wearer damage the construct. When a construct is destroyed while serving as armor, the wearer loses all the benefits, but regains all the hindrances until the armor is removed, which takes the same amount of time that removing breastplate armor does. If the construct is still active, the creator can order the removal of the armor with a swift action, at which point the construct leaves the creator's space and enters a space adjacent to the creator. Donning construct armor takes a full-round action if the construct is still active. The creator cannot don a construct with this modification if the construct has been destroyed.

The construct's wearer retains his base attacks and saves. Construct armor counts as breastplate armor for purposes of determining AC, weight, Dexterity modifiers to AC, and chance of arcane spell failure.

Quote:

Construct Limb

Requirements: Craft Construct, Craft Magic Arms and Armor, animate objects, Small or Tiny construct

CR Increase: none

Cost: 27,000 gp

This modification can be performed on a Small or Tiny construct, such as an iron cobra or a homunculus. The creator modifies the construct such that she can slip it over her arm and control its actions as part of her own. The construct limb retains any melee attacks that the construct has, and the creator can use special attacks as if she were the construct (using the construct's

...

That may actually be one of the best ways to go... Take wizard.. go one level fighter. Then go back to Wizard till you get to level 11 wizard. So at level 13 you start going EK.

Then you can wear the suit of armor (via golem crafter for mythral golems.) Which drops your ASF down to 15%.. How can we go past that?


7 levels of Magus would let you use medium armor with no ASF.

Come to think of it, straight magus might not be too bad for the character you're thinking of - Iron Man is a genius after all.


A Magus is definitely a good choice here, imho. As you get a better BAB and better abilities to go with it. I just wish the Construct Armor rules were clearer/better.

Another alternative, perhaps, is going with a Wizard. Make a construct that you are inside of (full cover), with Crafter's Eyes and a Crystal Ball. This might be more of a Mech though.

The tricky thing would be getting spell-casting. Hmm, if you just had Improved Cover, that would do the trick, but leave you a bit exposed.

An animated object would be the easiest way to justify this if the DM is keen on letting you design or modify a golem.

The main difficulty with using a construct is that the rules are very unfriendly to them, unless they are Adamantine. It's a huge sunk cost if they are destroyed. Using the Designing Construct rules, you could see if your DM is open to a special ability that lets the golem slowly repair itself if it is brought below zero health. Or just see if you can get the Adamantine Golem special ability (though that would be more expensive).

Grand Lodge

Well, if we are going Magus.. what archetype if any should be? Tiefling's is kinda cool, since you give up nothing.


For maximum accuracy to Iron man, I'd consider Soul Forger - make your bonded weapon a Gauntlet.

That said, imho Soul Forger is not a particularly good archetype.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Malwing wrote:
I'm making a Magus crafter to craft constructs using rules from Ultimate Magic to make Dr Doom Armor.

Dr. Doom might be better created by using the Hellknight Signifier (AKA the Hell Knight Enforcer).

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/e-h/hellknight -signifer


Son of the Veterinarian wrote:
Malwing wrote:
I'm making a Magus crafter to craft constructs using rules from Ultimate Magic to make Dr Doom Armor.

Dr. Doom might be better created by using the Hellknight Signifier (AKA the Hell Knight Enforcer).

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/e-h/hellknight -signifer

But Soulforger Magus gets a crazy bonus to craft checks insuring that I get my armor faster.


Just take Arcane Armor Training/Arcane Armor Mastery as a multi-class fighter wizard. Fighter already gives you proficiency in light, medium, and heavy armor, and Arcane armor training lets you use a swift action to lower your arcane spell failure by 10% for one round.

Quote:

Prerequisites: Light Armor Proficiency, caster level 3rd.

Benefit: As a swift action, reduce the arcane spell failure chance due to the armor you are wearing by 10% for any spells you cast this round.

Then take Arcane Armor Mastery, which lets you lower your arcane spell failure by 20% as a swift action, and voila! No more spell failure while wearing your construct as armor!

Quote:

Prerequisites: Arcane Armor Training, Medium Armor Proficiency, caster level 7th.

Benefit: As a swift action, reduce the arcane spell failure chance due to the armor you are wearing by 20% for any spells you cast this round. This bonus replaces, and does not stack with, the bonus granted by Arcane Armor Training.

Also, while I can see the point of Soul Forger not being as good of an archetype for the Magus as some other archetypes (Kensai), what Malwing needs to remember is that by RAW, the Magus' bonuses to crafting ONLY applies to making magic armors, shields, and weapons. While I would allow, personally, a construct to be counted as an armor when being built as such using the Construct Armor modification, the construct itself isn't an armor itself, so the class feature may not be usable for making a construct. I'd argue that with your DM/GM first, though I personally allow the Magus Archetype to apply the bonus to a construct, but ONLY when said construct has the Construct Armor modification.


Damn. I was hoping to craft some armor, turn it into a construct and then modify it to be worn. But reading it I can't do that so I guess a wizard/fighter is the way to go.

Magus is losing out on a lot of potential to be the go-to weapons artificer class if the usual go-to is fighter-wizard.


Malwing wrote:

Damn. I was hoping to craft some armor, turn it into a construct and then modify it to be worn. But reading it I can't do that so I guess a wizard/fighter is the way to go.

Magus is losing out on a lot of potential to be the go-to weapons artificer class if the usual go-to is fighter-wizard.

Not quite, the Soul Forger is still great for creating magic weapons, armors and shields faster and for less cost than a wizard, and when you consider that when combined with the Black Blade archetype for a free one-handed intelligent weapon that gains it's own magic enhancements as the Magus levels up, the Magus is still an excellent primary front-line caster with great access to magic item creation.

Since the Construct Armor modification allows the worn construct to count as a suit of Breastplate armor, I'd allow the Magus to use his bonuses to crafting armor, weapons, and shields to accrue to the construct in question. A Magus will still be a somewhat better melee spellcaster than a multi-classing fighter/wizard, as the Magus can wade into melee without needing Arcane Armor feats, and it doesn't need to dip into any prestige classes in order to survive melee.

On another note, I've already built a construct creating/wearing Magus for a couple campaigns, and when combined with the Immune to Magic ability of certain constructs, such as the Adamantine Golem or the Cannon Golem, I can wade into melee without worrying about most spells, while gaining the benefits of being Ironman.


Espy Kismet wrote:

So I was thinking, with people afraid of the whole "Firearms in my fantasy" why do they not mind a guy in power armor ravaging through the streets firing lasers and unleashing orbital nukes?

First - Folding Plate - Starts off as a brooch, becomes fullplate. the brooch becomes an emblem in center of the chest.

Platemail comes with two gauntlets for enchantment and fiddling with. Apply weapon wand to gauntlet.

Next, get a wand of scoring ray, or Searing light. Insert it into gauntlet.

Congrats, you are now the iron man!

Now, how to work this into a full character idea?

Combine Synthesist Summoner with some 3.5 Warlock? That way you get DR and the abikity to shoot beams at will along with the resiliance of the Summoner.

Scarab Sages

Work with your DM to create a custom item pair of gauntlets that replicate the effects of a ring of the ram but with unlimited charges. Although, if you are actually as rich as Tony Stark, you can just craft several rings of the ram and replace it when you run out of charges.

With the Rings of the Ram replicating repulsors, all you really need is a suit of full plate and a way to fly.


Imbicatus wrote:
Although, if you are actually as rich as Tony Stark, you can just craft several rings of the ram and replace it when you run out of charges.

This is actually really funny.

Shadow Lodge

Imbicatus wrote:
With the Rings of the Ram replicating repulsors, all you really need is a suit of full plate and a way to fly.

Aasimars can take a feat to fly.

Magus would work well with Myrmidarch. you could enchant spiked gaunlets or reskin punching daggers, and you could slight of hand daggers up your sleeve and launch them with magic missiles or snowball spells.

Grand Lodge

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This is what I'm currently looking at for Ironman

Wizard 11 fighter 1 EK 9.

Bonded Item - gauntlet (Or Amulet and make it into folding plate possibly)
Universal Mage - Possibly Arcane Crafter. Alternatively a Metal Spellcaster.

Race - Possibly Human maybe something else.
Trait for +2 CL (If this can be gotten any other way but a magic trait.. then we take Hedge Mage as well)

Fighter level 1 - Weapon focus gauntlet, Weapon focus Ray?
Wizard level 2
Wizard level 3 - Arcane armor training
Level 4 - Craft wondrous item
level 5 - Craft Arms and Armor
Level 6 - Craft Construct
level 7 - Craft Wand
level 8 - Nada
Level 9 - ??
Level 10 - nada
Level 11 - Craft Staff, Staff like wand

The reason I took fighter first was to push the caster level and feats to match up so you can have wands that act at your caster level at level 11. That's pretty important! Otherwise you'd have to wait till level 13 for this to fully be in there. Fighter could easily be replaced with any heavy armor wearing guy.. and.. dangit. You couldn't take staff like wand at level 11. >< You'd still have to wait till level 13 to take it... Gah.. Wait.. the EK could count.. But does one really want to drop hmm..

Shadow Lodge

need 3 CASTER levels for AA training. other then that good build

Grand Lodge

The trait gives you that, does it not?

Dark Archive

using some third party stuff i found a iron man

The Exchange

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"May or may not be" Iron Man? What are you, Heisenberg's Uncertainty Superhero?

Grand Lodge

Lincoln Hills wrote:
"May or may not be" Iron Man? What are you, Heisenberg's Uncertainty Superhero?

Actually its one of the opening lines in the iron man song. Depending on version

The Exchange

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Oh, I see. Well, I'll scrap my plans for a team-up with Schrodinger-Man, then.

Schrodinger-Man! Schrodinger-Man!
Friendly neighborhood Schrodinger-Man!
Ill-defined
Until observed
Often seems
Quite absurd
Look out!
Here comes - or does not come, we don't know until you look out -
the Schrodinger-Man!

...I'm sorry. I didn't get much sleep last night.

Grand Lodge

Its cool, i think the eay to do this is go ek.

Golem armor, using something along the lines of mythril gplem for mythril armor


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Tony Stark's real super powers are the ability to build just about anything, and a bottomless bank account. Let's work from that premise.

(long post, but I'm kinda proud of it. bear with me)

The Man:

You start as a Spellslinger Wizard with the Cypher Magic feat. Take the traits Rich Parents and Magical Lineage (magic missile) (you'll see why later). Then prestige class into Pathfinder Savant.

At 3rd level you're going to take Craft Wonderous Item. At 5th level you're going to take Craft Magic Arms and Armor. That's pretty much all you need. The other stuff is mostly just my ideas on how to get the most punch out of the theme. You don't even need Armor Proficiency or the Arcane Armor feats. If it were me, I'd probably take feats that reduce my crafting costs or time, because Mithril Man is going to be doing a lot of it. I recommend taking Intensify Spell at 9th level so you can get more mileage out of your lower level blaster scrolls.

You don't care about Arcane Spell Failure because all your spells will be cast from scrolls.
You are going to make scrolls at the lowest level possible (read: cheaply), but cast them at your caster level +1. (Cypher Magic and Pathfinder Savant level 3)

Your "scrolls" aren't actually scrolls. They're your armor's loadout. Your "ammo" or "energy levels" so to speak. You can even describe "scribing scrolls" as "engraving runes on bullets" or "or adding more systems to the armor" something like that.

Your spells become your techno-gimics and firepower. You make giant piles of "scrolls" for super cheap and prepare for any and all scenarios. The Pathfinder Savant's Esoteric Magic ability even gives you access to the best spells from other spell lists.

The Machine:

The armor is just fluff. You can describe it however you want. What it actually is, is a collection of magic items.

How to make it
You have Craft Magic Arms and Armor, Craft Wonderous Item and nigh-unlimited cash. The only thing limiting you is the spells required to make things. The rules allow you to ignore certain prerequisites by increasing the DC of the Craft check. That means your relevant Craft skill is your other limitation.

So the first thing you're going to do is buy a Portable Hole and put a Workshop inside it. You're going to fill the Workshop with Masterwork Tools for various kinds of Crafting. Then you're going to enchant those tools to give Enhancement Bonuses to Craft checks (remember, Equipment bonuses and Enhancement bonuses stack, so a +5 masterwork Hammer of Blacksmithing actually gives a +7 bonus, not a +5)

Now you have your portable armor repair workshop.

What to make
When you build your armor you can do it however you like. Since we don't care about Spell Failure, I'm going to build mine based on a Zero ACP. The best combination I've found seems to be Mithril Celestial Plate with Armored Kilt for 34,170 GP. (the entry for Celestial Plate doesn't specify a material, so by RAW a Special Material can be applied. You might need to run this by your GM though. If you get a GM veto, instead go with Mithril Scale Mail for your chassis.)

Then add a Mithril Buckler enchanted as a Caster's Shield. That 1/2 price scroll slot is great with your character build. Every morning you just load your "defense gauntlet" with a higher level "energy blast".

From this set up, we're looking at a +14 base AC bonus and 0 ACP. Throw in Stoneskin at higher levels and your defenses will be pretty impressive.

Add the Called or Glamoured enchantments and you can even wander around in normal clothes until you need to do your transformation.

All in all, you're looking at sinking about 40k gp into your basic armor. I imagine Mithril Man being about 10th level, so that cost works out well.

Special Equipment
Over the years, Iron Man has made a lot of different versions of his suit. Hulk Buster, Stealth, Space, Deep Sea, Military, Drunk Tank, you name it, there's a suit for it.

In our game, all the different suits are, are different scroll loadouts. What gear are you carrying into this particular fight? Your scroll sets become your themes. War Machine might be mostly Blaster spells. Hulk Buster might be Bull Strength, Iron Skin, Mage's Transformation and a lot of self-healing. You could even do the Iron Spider with Spider Climb, Web, Jump and Spiritual Weapon or something to represent the mechanical spider arms.

A Wand of Fly covers your flight needs.

A Scarab of Golem Bane will let you take out those pesky "magic immune" baddies with regular old bullets. (well, not regular. They'll actually be piles of bullets with enhancement bonuses made out of special materials)

Armaments
You know all those spell slots you aren't using (on account of pre-preparing with scrolls and wearing giant armor)? Those get dumped into your Spellslinger ability. Now your wrist-mounted cannons can have magic item properties added to them on the fly (you only have 5 levels of Spellslinger, but that should be plenty for minor bonuses on top of the enchantments you've already added to your guns).

By the way, those enchantments should just be bonuses. The faster you can get to +5 the better. Why? Because that bonus is added to your spell DCs for any spell you cast through the gun. Remember, Spell Completion items act as though you cast them, so you are essentially loading a scroll right into the chamber of your gun and firing it. This takes no ammo. The spell is the ammo.

Icing on the cake? Spellslingers have 4 opposition schools. That means 4 different schools cost twice the regular number of spell slots to prepare. You couldn't care less about that because when you prepared spells from those schools it was 5 weeks ago during a drunken crafting binge. Now the magic that is so hard for you to remember is just another bullet ready to be fired.

Those guns I mentioned can be whatever you want them to be. You can attune 2 at a time. I'd make one of them a single-target long range gun, like a Rifle, and the other a Scattergun for the area effect.

Occasionally you are going to need to fire normal bullets instead of scrolls. This is where Haste is your friend. That extra attack is nice assuming you can get your reload down. (alchemical cartridges help here, as does a permanent Reloading Hands/Abundant Ammunition wondrous item)

Spring Loaded Wrist Sheathes can carry 60 bullets (don't ask me how). Load one arm with Silver Bullets and the other with Cold Iron. Nobody likes Damage Reduction.

Here's a fun trick with scrolls of Magic Missile. A first level scroll of Magic Missile costs 12.5 gp. When you cast it, you'll be casting it off of that scroll at your caster level +1. At 10th level you'll be casting 1st level scrolls of Intensified Magic Missile as if they were 11th level for 6d4+6 damage that never misses. That's an average of only 22 damage, but it's 22 damage that never misses, ignored DR, and is cheaper than alchemist's fire.

Keeping True to the Theme

here's some Iron Man themed spells that make great, cheap scrolls that hold up over higher levels and can be cast as deployable technogadgets or as scroll-bullets through your mageguns-

Repulsor Blast: Hydraulic Push

Uni-Beam: Magic Missile

Holographic Decoy: Mirror Image

Targeting Laser: True Strike

Assault Drone: Spiritual Weapon (you can take cleric spells, remember?)

Multi-target Tranquilizer Darts (like in the first movie): Sleep

Cryo-blast: Snowball

I'm sure you can come up with others. :)

Jarvis:

Jarvis is three things, mechanically.

First, he's the personality you get when you enchant your armor as an Intelligent Item. he gets an action every round, and manifesting his abilities, or using a skill (like Perception as "sensors" or Use Magic Device as "deploying countermeasures" don't even take physical movement. They can be done while you're suited up.

Second, he's a Permanent Animate Object cast on your armor. If you get paralyzed, Held, Dazed, knocked unconscious or otherwise compromised, he can walk or fly your sorry butt out of harm's way, and can take actual actions like firing your guns.

Third, he's your Animated Workshop, built as a Cohort with the Leadership feat. He's an Alchemist with Craft feats and he cranks out new toys for you day in and day out. You communicate with him via a permanent Message spell and a Ring Gate (so you're always counted as being close by)

(the rest of your Followers are just the employees at Stark Enterprises)

The Proton Cannon:

The piece de resistance. The finishing move. The BFG. The thing that will make your GM cry into their cheetoes.

First, you're going to want to build yourself a cannon. Take a look at the siege weapon rules. Build yourself the biggest damn cannon you can and put it inside Jarvis the Workshop.

Get an enchanted Adamantine Cannonball of Returning, or something like that. Load it inside your Jarvis Canon. He's your reloading and firing crew.

Now mount a Ring Gate to the front of the barrel.

Mount the other Ring Gate on the chestplate of your armor.

Say "Jarvis, give me the main gun on my mark..."

I'm sure you can see where this is going...

Best of all, cannons count as firearms. As a Spellslinger, you can attune your cannon as one of your mage guns. :)

By Level Breakdown:

remember that in early levels you're just going to be a weird wizard in heavy armor clanking around using scrolls to get around Arcane Spell Failure. This entire build is dependent more on cash and craft skill bonus than anything else.

1 Spellslinger, Scribe Scroll.
2
3 Craft Wondrous Item (start making your workshop)
4
5 Craft Magic Arms and Armor (Mark I armor)
6 1st level of Pathfinder Savant
7 Leadership (for your Cohort, take an animated workshop named Jarvis)
8 Scrollmaster Ability
9 Intensify Spell

Past that, it's whatever you want.


Should I point out, Iron Man is all about technology, not magic? Wouldn't Alchemist work better?


Technology significantly advanced from your own is indistinguishable from magic.

A lot of the stuff Iron Man does is outside what technology can actually do, so why not go whole hog? The magic system is how Pathfinder handles those kinds of effects. I say use 'em.

An Alchemist would work fine, but would have a far more explosive flavor.

In my opinion, Iron Man is all about energy beams and non-lethal crowd control and having tons of handy little tricks to counter any given problem (like a wizard)

War Machine on the other hand, is less versatile, but can blow things up all damn day. If I were going to make War Machine as a distinctly different character, I'd probably make him a Bombadier Alchemist.


"Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from SCIENCE!"

A Magus or Wizard just fits Ironman better.

Depending on the reading of Construct Armor, a Wizard could use it effectively. If it lets you give the Golem attack commands or use an action to have the golem attack, then you don't have to worry about your BAB when using the Golem's abilities. In this case a Wizard is best for the Construct Armor.

Grand Lodge

Alright.. So this is what we get

Samsaran - Gives us spells that cancel out some of the weaknesses we might have.. and lets us have weapon wand

fighter
Arcane builder wizard.

Magic Knack for +2 caster level to cover the two levels we lose.

1st level is fighter We take the weapon focus ray and point blank. If we can't take ray yet, then point blank precise shot.
2nd Wizard
3rd Wizard - Arcane Armor Training
4th Wizard - Craft Wonderous Item
5th Wizard - Craft Arms and armor
6th Wizard - Craft wand
7th Wizard - Craft Construct
8th Wizard
9th Wizard - Arcane builder Wand
10th Wizard
11th Ek - Craft Staff, Ray or Precise shot
12th EK
13th EK - Staff like wand, You add your EK levels to both your fighter and Wizard to qualify for feats.
14th Ek - Weapon Spec Ray
15th Ek - Great Weapon Focus
16th EK
17th EK - Great weapon Spec
18th Ek
19th ek - Imp Crit Ray, ???
20th EK

So this leaves you to the point you can wear your golem armor easily. Make sure to get it so it has armor spikes. Why? You can wield three wands this way, while you can't use them all at the same time, you can easily switch spells you are using.

Since you're gonna be flying, you could also get two boot blades for five wands. Two Spring loaded wrist sheaths help you there too.

Grand Lodge

Doomed Hero wrote:

Tony Stark's real super powers are the ability to build just about anything, and a bottomless bank account. Let's work from that premise.

(long post, but I'm kinda proud of it. bear with me)

** spoiler omitted **

** spoiler omitted **...

gah.. were was your post when I was looking earlier?

Currently reading through the stuff you've got. My only thing is that you use the spellslinger archetype. I'm trying to avoid that as my goal with iron man was to make him when a DM says "I hate firearms in fantasy cause the technology for them doesn't exist and it doesn't fit at all in the world"

I am a bit of a jerk player for it I suppose. I just find it fun coming in and being like "Well.. I made Ironman.. with 'technology' that doesn't exist in the real world.. so does this mean we are like in the future then?"

Though, from what I'm reading of your version.. If I find a DM to run it... it would be awesome I think.


Fair enough. Drop Spellslinger and use Admixture Evoker. The difference is minimal. You lose a bit of Non-Magic damage from guns and gain it in Magic Damage from spells.

Arcanimirum Crafter is another option if you want to save on Feat Tax for crafting.

As a note, Golem Armor is f*~%ing terrible. You're better off using the Wonderous Item rules to add a permanent Animate Object to your suit. It's cheaper and a lot less limiting to do it that way.


Weapon Specialization is a bad feat. Do not take. In fact, since you are going to be making touch attacks largely, there's no reason to bother with Weapon Focus either (it is not as bad as Weapon Spec, but not great, and pretty awful for Rays which you'll have a great shot at hitting with anyway).

Wands are pretty quick to make overall, so I would think Arcane Builder is not worth it since it doesn't reduce the cost.

If you have anything that increases your Caster Level by 1, you can pick up Craft Staff at level 9 and Staff-like Wands at 11.

And you're Iron Mage, obviously.

Grand Lodge

Doomed Hero wrote:

Fair enough. Drop Spellslinger and use Admixture Evoker. The difference is minimal. You lose a bit of Non-Magic damage from guns and gain it in Magic Damage from spells.

Arcanimirum Crafter is another option if you want to save on Feat Tax for crafting.

As a note, Golem Armor is f*@#ing terrible. You're better off using the Wonderous Item rules to add a permanent Animate Object to your suit. It's cheaper and a lot less limiting to do it that way.

Alright, Explain to me why its terrible.

Also slight problem with being scroll dependent - You still suffer ASF for scrolls. Thats why I've focused on wands more, then use Arcane Armor when I need to use a real spell.

Drachasor wrote:

Weapon Specialization is a bad feat. Do not take. In fact, since you are going to be making touch attacks largely, there's no reason to bother with Weapon Focus either (it is not as bad as Weapon Spec, but not great, and pretty awful for Rays which you'll have a great shot at hitting with anyway).

Wands are pretty quick to make overall, so I would think Arcane Builder is not worth it since it doesn't reduce the cost.

If you have anything that increases your Caster Level by 1, you can pick up Craft Staff at level 9 and Staff-like Wands at 11.

And you're Iron Mage, obviously.

Why is Weapon Spec a bad feat? Wands are quickish.. but not quick enough. Sure its 1000 gp worth a day, while doing nothing but working on the wand. its far less than that while you're out adventuring.

And if Weapon focus/Spec is so terrible, can you give me 3 combat feats then?

Lastly, there is no way to have your caster level be higher than your character level as far as I've seen. Both Craft staff and Staff like wand require a level 11 character.


You suffer ASF from scrolls? That's news to me. Can you quote me some rules text?


Espy Kismet wrote:
Why is Weapon Spec a bad feat? Wands are quickish.. but not quick enough. Sure its 1000 gp worth a day, while doing nothing but working on the wand. its far less than that while you're out adventuring.

1) Yes, +2 damage is HORRIBLE. That's not even a d6. That's not even a 1/4 of a hit die worth of health (given con bonuses). It's awful. No one should ever take it. Do not take it.

2) Up the DC by 5 and it is 2000/day. 50 charges lasts a LONG time. It shouldn't be a problem unless you basically never get downtime. Later you'll have Staves which are easier to recharge.

Espy Kismet wrote:
And if Weapon focus/Spec is so terrible, can you give me 3 combat feats then?

Still Spell, Empower Spell, Quicken Spell.

Espy Kismet wrote:
Lastly, there is no way to have your caster level be higher than your character level as far as I've seen. Both Craft staff and Staff like wand require a level 11 character.

Spell Tattoo, there's an Ioun Stone that does it, etc. It doesn't actually have to be with every spell you can cast, btw (though the Ioun Stone does that).

Doomed Hero wrote:
You suffer ASF from scrolls? That's news to me. Can you quote me some rules text?

The rules seem to imply it, but you can read it either way:

Quote:
Spell Completion: This is the activation method for scrolls. A scroll is a spell that is mostly finished. The preparation is done for the caster, so no preparation time is needed beforehand as with normal spellcasting. All that's left to do is perform the finishing parts of the spellcasting (the final gestures, words, and so on). To use a spell completion item safely, a character must be of high enough level in the right class to cast the spell already. If he can't already cast the spell, there's a chance he'll make a mistake. Activating a spell completion item is a standard action (or the spell's casting time, whichever is longer) and provokes attacks of opportunity exactly as casting a spell does.

Grand Lodge

Quote:
Activate the Spell: Activating a scroll requires reading the spell from the scroll. The character must be able to see and read the writing on the scroll. Activating a scroll spell requires no material components or focus. (The creator of the scroll provided these when scribing the scroll.) Note that some spells are effective only when cast on an item or items. In such a case, the scroll user must provide the item when activating the spell. Activating a scroll spell is subject to disruption just as casting a normally prepared spell would be. Using a scroll is like casting a spell for purposes of arcane spell failure chance.

Not imply, Specifically state. Its a spell completion device.

Drachasor wrote:


1) Yes, +2 damage is HORRIBLE. That's not even a d6. That's not even a 1/4 of a hit die worth of health (given con bonuses). It's awful. No one should ever take it. Do not take it.

2) Up the DC by 5 and it is 2000/day. 50 charges lasts a LONG time. It shouldn't be a problem unless you basically never get downtime. Later you'll have Staves which are easier to recharge.

+2 damage per ray. It adds up. Works with wands even. You don't need to take out a HD worth of hp every feat you put in. Though, I will say I'll drop the greater spec, and pick up still spell, so I have the ability to cast emergency spells while in the iron suit.

Most Dm's I've played with, no, you don't get down time. Even the down time I have gotten wasn't down time, but two days worth of events played over 3 months of weekly sessions.

Also, on staffs, we're not using staffs for reasons.. despite our ability to craft them. We are using Wands specifically.

Most of the combat while in the suit, you're using wands. If you have 10 turns in a combat, you are probably going to use ten charges. They last a long time for a normal wizard who isn't focused on using his spells from wands.

Drachasor wrote:


Quote:

Espy Kismet wrote:

And if Weapon focus/Spec is so terrible, can you give me 3 combat feats then?

Still Spell, Empower Spell, Quicken Spell.

Please try again. EKs get 3 bonus combat feats


Espy Kismet wrote:
Not imply, Specifically state. Its a spell completion device.

Ahh, looked in the wrong place.

Espy Kismet wrote:

Most Dm's I've played with, no, you don't get down time. Even the down time I have gotten wasn't down time, but two days worth of events played over 3 months of weekly sessions.

Also, on staffs, we're not using staffs for reasons.. despite our ability to craft them. We are using Wands specifically.

Is a staff made for a pixie or other very small creature so different than a wand?

And crazy DMs. Go go go all the time!

Espy Kismet wrote:
Please try again. EKs get 3 bonus combat feats

Ahh, yes, sorry about that. Silent Spell is a good idea though, let's you use your normal casting with any failure chance.

Arcane Armor Mastery (basically you fail to cast on a 1 now).

Improved Critical (Ray)

Arcane Strike SHOULD work

Improved Initiative

Dodge is not bad, can lead to Wind Stance (saves money on cloak)

There are others.

Grand Lodge

Drachasor wrote:
Espy Kismet wrote:
Not imply, Specifically state. Its a spell completion device.

Ahh, looked in the wrong place.

Espy Kismet wrote:

Most Dm's I've played with, no, you don't get down time. Even the down time I have gotten wasn't down time, but two days worth of events played over 3 months of weekly sessions.

Also, on staffs, we're not using staffs for reasons.. despite our ability to craft them. We are using Wands specifically.

Is a staff made for a pixie or other very small creature so different than a wand?

And crazy DMs. Go go go all the time!

Espy Kismet wrote:
Please try again. EKs get 3 bonus combat feats

Ahh, yes, sorry about that. Silent Spell is a good idea though, let's you use your normal casting with any failure chance.

Arcane Armor Mastery (basically you fail to cast on a 1 now).

Improved Critical (Ray)

Arcane Strike SHOULD work

Improved Initiative

Dodge is not bad, can lead to Wind Stance (saves money on cloak)

There are others.

Its about being able to use weapon wand for the weapons. Granted you only get 20 minutes at max, but its enough. Especially if you can get in and out of the armor easily, which is why we're looking at the mythril golem.

Preparing for battle, you could easily have several wands, at the go. 2 for gauntlets. Two in wrist sheaths, one in armor spikes. Even two for boot blades or non-hand weapons.


Hmm, how to explain this.

Weapon Specialization is bad for everyone. It is a bad feat for fighters. It would be a bad feat for you. A feat is worth more than 2 damage on an attack.

Weapon Focus is a bit better, but there are plenty of ways to increase your chance to hit. There are better feats as well.

Scarab Sages

Completely disagree on Weapon Specialization being a good feat. By itself, yes +2 is not that much. But when you are making 5 attacks per round, that becomes +10 damage. Not to mention that it affects everything unlike precision damage, and it stacks with everything.

The Exchange

Actually, I've always found Weapon Spec pretty decent... in campaigns where you know darn well that you'll be finding more & more powerful versions of that exact weapon later on.

(I haven't looked closely at the random-weapon-type tables in the GMG, but in 3rd Edition, longswords were (does the math) 8.4% of all magic weapons found, not counting direct placement by the DM of course. The guy with Weapon Specialization (spiked chain) was gonna have to sell two or three good longswords to get his particular preferred weapon juiced up.)

There are feats that have more spectacular effects, of course, but it's hard for me to think of a feat whose effects apply more frequently.

(This is the second time I've encouraged derailing of the thread. Sorry. Won't happen again (at least, not on this thread.))


Imbicatus wrote:
Completely disagree on Weapon Specialization being a good feat. By itself, yes +2 is not that much. But when you are making 5 attacks per round, that becomes +10 damage. Not to mention that it affects everything unlike precision damage, and it stacks with everything.

It does not become +10 damage, because you will not hit with all of those attacks -- and you don't even get a full attack every round.

It's not that WpnSpc is useless. It is that there are much better options. It's one of the classic bad feats that looks attractive.

Scarab Sages

It's very good for archers, who A: have less static mods to begin with, B: Have more attacks per round at decent to-hit bonuses, and C: don't have to be mobile to get off full attacks. It's also a core component of making builds like the Brawler Fighter competitive by adding on more and more static damage modifiers.

Are there situations where another feat is a better choice? Absolutely.
But is it a bad feat? Absolutely not.

Grand Lodge

I still don't know why the golem armor is absolutely terrible.

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