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I want to build this guy. Basically a massive orc with heavy armour and a tower shield.
Now I have done my homework.
The shield. I want to use a tower shield. This is non-negotiable. Tower shields got +2 max dex bonus, -2 to attack, cannot shield bash, cannot have spikes, cannot be thrown and can be turned into cover. So bashing is out, TWF is out and I probably only want a max dex of about 14. It is also made of wood. This is a problem.
Looking at special materials I could make it out of elysian bronze, fire-forged steel or living steel. I do not want to use adamantine (partly because of the cost and partly because I dont think that orcs would get their hands on something like that :P).
Bronze would give me a few bonuses against magical beasts but otherwise would essentially be steel armour. It costs a fair amount but I like it.
Fire-forged grants some nice minor fire resistance as well as the ability to inflict some extra fire damage. Just as expensive as bronze. Orcs like fire :)
Living steel can slowly self repair, which is good considering orcs are not known to keep their stuff in good condition as well as having a chance to damage weapons attacking them. They are also more durable than steel which is a nice plus. And they are green :) And cheap! I think I like this one the best, reminds me of skyrim orc weapons/armour.
A living steel tower shield would cost 130 gp, 52.5 hps (1 1/2in thick) and have hardness of 15. How much would it weigh? 45 lbs? 67.5 lbs? (1 1/2, the difference between heavy steel/wood shield)
Armour. I would want the armour to be the same material as the shield and I want it to be a heavy armour. My go to would be plate but what are your guys thoughts on this one? Also can I add an armoured kilt to a suit of full plate? Or would that not have any effect?
Weapon. I am quite maliable on this one. I havent decided yet on what kind of weapon I want to use or whatnot. Only real thing is I want it to be the same material as the armour/shield. I imaging an axe or hammer would be best but as long as a sword looks mean enough it should be fine :) It also doesnt have to be the absolute pinnacle of DPR, just close is good.
Race. I am defaulting to orc but if there is a good enough reason to go half-orc I am willing to listen. I dont want to be human, even if I have the racial heritage: orc but half-orc with racial heritage might be ok. Sell me on it.
Class. As for class I figured that fighter would be the way to go and I figured that armour mastery would be important. With that in mind I had the following 4 archetypes that I was thinking about.
Shielded fighter. Just didnt work. You replace armour training for a dodge bonus that only works when you fight defensively. That sucks. You replace weapon training with improved shield bash. You cant bash with a tower shield... This one is out.
Phalanx soldier. You replace armour training with the ability to wield a polearm 1 handed, some minor benefits to using a tower shield and you can protect allies. Not bad, but not great.
Armour master. You get improved touch AC, damage reduction and fortification. Actually pretty good. Pity I dont want to use adamantine armour.
Tower shield specialist. bonus to reflex saves, keeps armour training and even improves it. Nice! Does not take the -2 for using a tower shield and can even use it against touch attacks. I like this one and I think this one is the one I will go with. Name fits ^-^
Traits. I am unsure about traits, Armour expert or defender of the society would probably be good, I imagine defender is better. Steel skin sounds good as the issue of sleeping in armour or doning it. 4 minutes to put it on is brutal or the alternative is sleeping in it. I thought there was an enhancement called comfort or something that did this? Rich parents (re-flavoured as robbed someones rich parents) would be good as it would allow me to start with a good shield, weapon and heavy armour that otherwise would not be available. Bred for war is quite flavourful if not optimal. Friendless (via adopted) a good idea? I thought that there was a trait that gave you bonus damage when you were in the negatives, do you know what it was? Was it even a trait or am I out to lunch?
Feats. Rather, where am I going to go with this. I know that I will be using a one handed weapon and I should have a good AC but beyond that I am unsure where I should take this guy. I dont necessarily have to focus exclusively on AC and would rather a more rounded character. I would like to be at least somewhat resistant to spells (im perceiving that to be a weakness right now), I would like to be able to do something meaningful in combat beyond 'take damage, cant die', and I would like to have some use outside of combat.
So Im thinking vital strike? something I can do with that possibly? I understand that it is generally not a good feat.
Cleave? Orcs get some nice things with cleave, same with dwarves. This might be an instance of going half-orc for racial heritage: dwarf and turning into an efficient cleave master. Chances are I will be stuck fighting the mooks (at least until I actually GET to the BBEG)
Deathless Initiate? Orcs get a sweet favoured class bonus that works well with this. Not starting out as an unbreakable fighter will make this take longer to get. Your thoughts? Ferocious Action, Resilient Brute and Tenacious Survivor would all work to this end.
What do you guys think here? I am at a loss as to where to take this next.
Also, shield focus and the like, is trading 1 feat for +1 AC a good idea?
Any suggestions for this area would be great!
Out of Combat. I would like to be able to contribute out of combat where possible. I understand that orcs get -2 to all mental stats and that makes it quite a bit harder. I also understand that things like swimming or climbing or sneaking will be massively difficult with such a large ACP. Also being a fighter only gets 2 skills base and with the -2 to int, I am not going to have many...
Lots of cons! but lets focus on doing at least 1 thing out of combat!
Just.... What?
I think thats pretty much where I am at. Plenty of advice would be great ^-^
Recap.
1. Should I make my stuff out of elysian bronze, fire-forged steel or living steel? I am leaning towards living steel.
2. How much would a steel tower shield weigh? 45 lbs? 67 1/2 lbs? Something different?
3. What armour should I use? Can I add an armoured kilt to it?
4. What weapon should I use? I like axes and hammers :)
5. I figure I am going Orc tower shield specialist.
6. What traits would be good? I can take the extra traits feat if need be.
7. What path should I go? What feats would accommodate it?
8. Are shield focus or iron hide worth it? Aka is trading 1 feat for 1 AC good?
9. What can I do out of combat. I want to do at LEAST 1 thing ooc.
Thanks for any advice!
Polearm fighter into Stalwart Defender can benefit from the tower shield's insane ACP - no one will be tumbling past you.
Build the tower shield into your armor. Your arm is gonna be tired, though.
Tower shield specialist gives up Weapon Training, and what he gets in return isn't worth it, IMO. So, Phalanx or Vanilla.
OOC? Intimidate. Or Sense Motive.
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I am going to argue that you should go half-orc. With a negative to all mental stats you will have trouble ever contributing to any out of Combat thing. It also kills your already weak will save.
Half-Orcs can be made into 3/4 orcs with the right picks.
Take the Beastial and Scavenger Traits, and the Razor Tusk Feat and you will look fully orc and still have the abilities of a human-esk person.
1.Going strictly from Raw, you cannot make a metal tower shield. If your GM says you can, awesome. In that case, I say go for Fireforged Steel. Combined with a fire forged steel weapon you have a non magical way to turn defense into offense.
3.Where full plate. It is the best and can be made to match you armor. You can combine a war kilt with medium and lighter armor but it has no effect on ac.
4. The War hammer and the War Axe are both great choices. But the Dwarven War Axe is the cream of the crop. If you are willing to spend the Feat to get it.
5. I think the tower shield specialist is amazing but I would advocate the Armor Master. With all that AC you are going to be really weak vs. Touch and there is alot of touch in pathfinder. Ad to that the DR (even without Adimantine) and you are a wall of steel.
6. Armor expert is a great trait because you will have so much Armor Check to get rid of. Legacy of sand is great for saving your mind (which is squishy and easy to control. Other traits that would help would give you a perception as a class skill or give you a social skill as a class skill.
7. Let AC handle itself. With Armor Master, Full PLate and a Tower shield you will always be tough to hit. Focus on dealing damage back. with how hard you are to hit you will need to be a threat to not be walked around. Take Every Damage feat to you find: Weapon Specialization, Power Attack, Furious Focus, Penatrating Strike. It all will help make you someone not to ignore. At higher levels Stalwat Defender can also help. Also take both the reflex and will feats. You will need them.
8.I would get your Perception and 1-2 Knowledge up. Maybe intimidate as well. Then you can enjoy the out of combat.
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thunder and fang can net you top damage, you need to waste 2 feats for it.and yes i know it doesnt effect the towershield, but you still get the earth breaker as a one handed weapon.
but other then that, i would focus on bull rushing, and reposition phalanx fighter can accomplish this very well while still having a good trip ability, which when used with pin down and stand still will give you a very powerful tanking character.
i'd say either phalanx soldier (for reach shenanigans w/ a polearm, threaten melee with bite or armor spikes) or armor master (DR/-, built-in fortification, and increased touch AC make for one tough dude), as pointed out above by several others.
either way, arrow and ray shield seem like must-haves (since the total cover wall eats an action so might not always be feasible--like when you're attacking) on the defensive front, and pile on those offensive bits for the rest.
if your DM isn't on board with a metal tower shield (though i don't see anywhere explicitly banning that, only the fluff text says anything about wood), consider darkwood for it's ease of carrying and ACP reduction (as well as other benefits iirc).
Wow many replies :)
Polearm going into stalwart defender.
The problem with going polearm master is that I really only have 3 options. The trident, pilum, or shortspear and the shortspear is just flat out weaker. The trident has brace while the pilum has greater range and the ability to disable shields. Pole fighting is useless and all I really gain is bonuses to hit and damage and flexible flanker. I also lose out on armour training :(
I dont think I will go with this one.
As for stalwart defender, I like it. If I go that route I will probably want to go bulwark, halting strike and unexpected strike with it. I would take feats like the stand still line and other movement inhibiting tricks.
Phalanx soldier. phalanx fighting is great! Being able to wield a polearm 1-handed and still gain from its reach and other things is good. Ready pike is interesting but who is going to actually charge me, what with my high armour, long reach and brace ability? Shield ally is just my basic tower shield as cover shenanigans with AOE. This would go well going into stalwart defender with the extra range (throw in lunge).
I dont like how it gives up armour training tho, not being slowed down by my armour at 7th is nice.
The reason I was thinking tower shield specialist was because of the improved armour training, improved reflex saves (so I dont have to worry about it as much) and gaining my shield bonus to touch attacks. At 9th level I get quite the bonus, +4 minimum.
The loss of weapon training is sad but it is the same for the armour master.
@ Major_Blackheart. That is one survivable orc but I would like something that can do a bit more offensively ^-^
Now Seriphim84. The half-orc has a lot going for him. He doesnt have the negatives in the mental stats, gaining skilled, so thats +2 skills per level over the orc, can get endurance for free and the choice between some good weapon proficiencies or a bonus to perception or a bite attack. They also count as human for some human only feats like racial heritage. I am still quite biased towards the orc but I am unsure right now.
1. The GM already ok'd having a metal tower shield so im good there. As for the fire-forged ya I would get some extra offense but it is just so expensive. I think I am going to go with the green metal so that one is decided :)
3. Full plate it is. Good to know about the kilt.
4. I think I will go with the battleaxe, unless I am willing to spend a trait on heirloom weapon to get the dwarven waraxe. I think I will stick with the battleaxe anyways.
6. I think (with all equipment) I would have an ACP of 16 at level 1. That should drop to 11 by level 4 or so, anything to make that better is a good idea! Lets just say I will have an irrational fear of water ;) There is still the problem of sleeping and fatigue...
7. I agree. I guess I will spend most of my early feats on improving my to hit and damage. I will definitely need iron will and the legacy of sand :)
8. Skills. Intimidate, perception, sense motive, knowledge have been suggested so far. I am thinking of going sense motive and perception so I can have a good wisdom and therefore better will saves. I might take wisdom in the flesh trait to be able to do something like swim or climb half decent. That or a trait that makes sense motive and perception as class skills. Looks like I am taking extra traits at some point :) I figure if I can get 3 skill points would be good. Int of 12 (dropped to 10) and favoured class bonus should do.
@THeSideKick. I forgot about Thunder and Fang! That looks like an interesting idea and I like the visual look of it :)
At this point I think I got 2 builds going. The phalanx solder going into stalwart defender that just shuts down anyone from getting close, bull rushing would work great for this :)
The second one is pure tower shield specialist grabbing as much damage as he can get for his axe.
The ray/arrow shield looks good, I missed that before. I would probably try and fit it into the phalanx build somewhere.
Phew long reply. Thanks for all the feedback guys. Now I am going to try and get a build together with 20 point buy and see what I got :)
Keep the ideas coming!
Polearm going into stalwart defender.
The problem with going polearm master is that I really only have 3 options. The trident, pilum, or shortspear and the shortspear is just flat out weaker. The trident has brace while the pilum has greater range and the ability to disable shields. Pole fighting is useless and all I really gain is bonuses to hit and damage and flexible flanker. I also lose out on armour training :(
I dont think I will go with this one.
My mistake; I meant phalanx fighter. Use whatever polearm you like one handed along with your tower shield.
Sadly you cannot TWF with tower shields.
You cannot bash with a tower shield, nor can you use your shield hand for anything else.
And you cant put spikes on the shield either. So TWF is out :(
I could go with just a large shield, but I specifically want to keep the tower shield :)
That one is non-negotiable. We will have to work with that limitation :)
I put together a few 20 point stat arrays. What do you guys think? The more I am doing this, the more I am thinking that half-orc would be better. Pity, I really like the orc :)
This is for the orc tower shield specialist.
STR. 16 (20)
DEX. 13
CON. 12
CHA. 8 (6)
WIS. 13 (11)
INT. 12 (10)
I could drop wis a point and cha 2 to up my con to 14, 12 is quite low...
This is for the orc phalanx fighter.
STR. 16 (20)
DEX. 15
CON. 14
CHA. 7 (5)
WIS. 10 (8)
INT. 12 (10)
He has lower wis and higher dex for combat reflexes. Pity he cant make use of his higher Dex for AC (he doesnt have armour training)
I dont know, both seem a bit too spread out... Your thoughts?
Half-orc
STR. 16 (18)
DEX. 15
CON. 14
CHA. 7
WIS. 12
INT. 10
This will work well for either build, that -6 on the orc is just punishing :)
I guess #2 and #3 would be the best choice for either build. What do you guys think?
Combat reflexes. With the reach and halt movement and pin down and possibly combat patroll.
The con is low and I am defintly worried about non-physical squishyness but I was trying to keep my mental stats from plummeting. I wanted 3 skill points and as high a wis as I could afford.
Get a helm of the mammoth lord and make gore attacks.
Combat reflexes. With the reach and halt movement and pin down and possibly combat patroll.
The con is low and I am defintly worried about non-physical squishyness but I was trying to keep my mental stats from plummeting. I wanted 3 skill points and as high a wis as I could afford.
Which skills are you looking to get? AFAICT, you're going to suck hard at all of them.
Which skills are you looking to get? AFAICT, you're going to suck hard at all of them.Combat reflexes. With the reach and halt movement and pin down and possibly combat patroll.
The con is low and I am defintly worried about non-physical squishyness but I was trying to keep my mental stats from plummeting. I wanted 3 skill points and as high a wis as I could afford.
Ahhahah! Ya probably :D
I wanted to get perception and sense motive and use the third skill point where its needed. Kinda spread the wealth where it has to go. I was also planing on picking up extra traits sometime early to get perception and sense motive as class skills. I realize ill be no diplomat but at least I won be completely useless at something out of combat.The helm of the mammoth lord sounds interesting, Ill have to keep it in mind. Any other magic item suggestions?
So thinking about some feat paths this is what I came up with.
Half-orc phalanx soldier 7 levels, stalwart defender 7 levels, phalanx soldier X
1. endurance (shamans apprentice)
1. additional traits
1. power attack (fighter)
2. combat reflexes
3. stand still
4. toughness
5. alertness
6. lunge
7. dodge
9. mobility, bulwark
11. combat patrol ,halting blow
13 iron will ,unexpected strike
With this I get 4 traits at level 1, stand still at the same time I get phalanx fighting and combat patrol at the same time I get halting blow (so I have options). I get iron will late and I am worried about that, same with toughness. I imagine additional traits, toughness and iron will could be interchangeable.
Traits to chose from: Legacy of Sand (race), eyes and ears of the city (religion) or adopted: balloon headed (social), suvivor (regional).
Then 1 of defender of the society (combat) or robbed rich parents (social) to start with armour or finding haleen (campain) if I am allowed.
I'll write up the other one next.
IIRC you cant have more than one of the same type of trait (social, for instance)
Here's an idea. Tower shield in one hand, regular bashing/throwing shield in the other hand. Give it an enchantment that comes back to you.