RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Was thinking in another thread. Should the base classes have cool names?
The archtypes normally do. Think about the following
"What do you do?"
"I'm a lore warden."
"Sounds cool, I'm a falconer."
"Whoa, so working with birds eh? Hey bill, we've a falconer over here!"
"Well hold on let me get the lads calmed down."
"What does he mean, 'lads'?"
"Oh, Bill's a packlord."
"Ah, does what it says on the tin, eh? Hey buddy, what do you do?"
"um... I'm a fighter."
"Really? That's what you do? Fight?"
"Well yeah, just like Larry here."
"Nah, Ted said he's a lore warden. I'm pretty sure he doesn't fight books."
"No, really, I'm a fighter, like Charlie there."
"Excuse me *sniff* I'm a cad, not some base brawler like yourself."
"I'm not a brawler! I'm a fighter!"
Doesn't it break immersion if you refer to game features in game? If I play a fighter, I would probably identify as an adventurer if asked what I do by a commoner. I wouldn't say "I'm an ARMOR MASTER and I'm thinking about dipping into Ranger for early access to certain feats."
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To me a base class is a general archetype (sorry for using confusing terms, I mean like a literary one) that encompasses a wide range of more specialized disciplines. A fighter COULD be a lore warden but not all lore wardens are fighters.
And a "fighter" could be roleplayed to be anything you'd like thematically. Duelist, gladiator, assassin, etc
I actually have a "rogue rant" that I tell new players. Basically, only a crappy rogue introduces himself as a "rogue". (The term has negative connotations and would be like introducing yourself as a "generally unlikable person" or a "thug" at speed dating).
Long story short: If your a fighter (or other base class) call yourself whatever you want :-)
Was thinking in another thread. Should the base classes have cool names?
The archtypes normally do. Think about the following
"What do you do?"
"I'm a lore warden."
"Sounds cool, I'm a falconer."
"Whoa, so working with birds eh? Hey bill, we've a falconer over here!"
"Well hold on let me get the lads calmed down."
"What does he mean, 'lads'?"
"Oh, Bill's a packlord."
"Ah, does what it says on the tin, eh? Hey buddy, what do you do?"
"um... I'm a fighter."
"Really? That's what you do? Fight?"
"Well yeah, just like Larry here."
"Nah, Ted said he's a lore warden. I'm pretty sure he doesn't fight books."
"No, really, I'm a fighter, like Charlie there."
"Excuse me *sniff* I'm a cad, not some base brawler like yourself."
"I'm not a brawler! I'm a fighter!"
Oh so true my friend. Oh so true.
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Me pirates be mostly swashbucklers, or so they say. Some o' 'em like to flank, some o' 'em not so much.
We got a priest o' Besmara, but she buckles a bit o' swash, too.
The other caster be sayin' she's a sea witch. She does magic wi' the sea, somehow.
They look like pirates ta me. T'is confusin' a' times. Arr.
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Traveling Murder Hobos: The Specifying
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Class names are purely metagame artifacts. In many cases the class name is descriptive enough of what a character does, that using the class name in game makes sense, but many times it doesn't.
My fighters generally think of themselves as warriors, soldiers, mercenaries, adventurers or, in extreme cases, heroes. And that's what they would answer if someone asked "what are you?"
I actually have a "rogue rant" that I tell new players. Basically, only a crappy rogue introduces himself as a "rogue". (The term has negative connotations and would be like introducing yourself as a "generally unlikable person" or a "thug" at speed dating).
This!
I have long thought the rogue (used to be called a thief) should not be your "apparent" profession. A rogue could be a bard, a pirate, a slaver, a thief, a snake-oil salesman, a charlatan, etc. But any successful thief would not say "Hi, I'm Sid, I'm a rogue!" (So check your pockets and keep me in eye-sight.)
Same with the Thieves Guild. To me, this should be the fantasy equivalent of the mafia. Who goes around introducing themselves as a mafioso? You wouldn't get far doing that!
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My ranger calls himself a horse-trader, though in fact he's a horse thief.
Fighters in my games usually turn out to be ex-guards or mercenaries.
Some classes at my table would have their class names be used in game, such as wizard (wizard being a scholarly title akin to professor), but specific class archetypes will not unless that archetype could refer to a specific job or rank title, such as being a Lore Warden for an elf tribe.
My druid has referred to herself as a druid, but then again, she is a member of the order of druids, so that makes sense too.
My ranger calls himself a dragon-slayer in the rare event that anyone overcomes his intimidating presence enough to ask him what he does.
My witch takes great pride in masquerading as a mage or a healer. Or once, a bard.
Also applies to alignment. Would an evil character tell you he's evil?
Also applies to alignment. Would an evil character tell you he's evil?
The Brotherhood of Evil Mutants would like a word with you.
Also applies to alignment. Would an evil character tell you he's evil?The Brotherhood of Evil Mutants would like a word with you.
I'm pretty sure that name is meant to be ironic, or at least embracing the idea that their views are considered "evil" by the rest of society, though they think they're doing the right thing.
I'm pretty sure that name is meant to be ironic, or at least embracing the idea that their views are considered "evil" by the rest of society, though they think they're doing the right thing.Also applies to alignment. Would an evil character tell you he's evil?The Brotherhood of Evil Mutants would like a word with you.
I'm pretty sure it is just crappy 1960s writing (black/white morality and all that).
Nope. Some dudes really like to be evil.
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Just rename it to Paladin.
HEEEEYYYYYOOOOOOOOO!
If you start getting more descriptive with the class names, then people feel locked into certain flavors. Even with the names we have now, some people feel that all monks and ninjas have to be Eastern-flavored, and they can't wrap their minds around barbarians who can read and write.
I actually have a "rogue rant" that I tell new players. Basically, only a crappy rogue introduces himself as a "rogue". (The term has negative connotations and would be like introducing yourself as a "generally unlikable person" or a "thug" at speed dating).
This!
I have long thought the rogue (used to be called a thief) should not be your "apparent" profession. A rogue could be a bard, a pirate, a slaver, a thief, a snake-oil salesman, a charlatan, etc. But any successful thief would not say "Hi, I'm Sid, I'm a rogue!" (So check your pockets and keep me in eye-sight.)
Same with the Thieves Guild. To me, this should be the fantasy equivalent of the mafia. Who goes around introducing themselves as a mafioso? You wouldn't get far doing that!
I actually had another character in a game I was in just walk up and say, "Hi. I'm so-and-so the rogue."
My character pulled his crossbow and leveled it at him. My cleric refused to trust him for the rest of the game.The ironic part? My character was a Cleric of Sehanine multi-classed rogue that everyone just assumed was a cleric of Bahamut which he told everyone he was. (PS: This was 4th ed)
Anyone have the inverse of this problem?
Like calling someone a 'rogue' and someone saying 'no, he's a fighter'? That annoys the hell out of me.
There be pirates, and there be sailors, and there be landlubbers. T'is all ye need ta know. Arr...
See, I have pretty much every caster class be explicitly label themselves in my homebrew. They belong to different guilds, there is elitism amongst the different schools of casting, some casters are rarer than others, etc.
For them, when a character says, "I'm a Sorcerer", people will know what that means if they have the K.(Arcana) or K.(Religion). Course they don't have to say what they are, they can carry a sword and pretend they're a smuggler, oracles will call themselves a fortune teller; but the class names themselves have meaning.
If you're a martial character though... it doesn't have the same value. We had a Rogue Rake at one point calling himself a Knight. Bards calling themselves Pirates. Fighters acting as to be Ninja(no ninja levels).
My characters always describe themselves based on their behavior, not their mechanics.
For example, my current character is an aspiring pirate hunter and captain, and he doesn't go around saying "Oh yeah, I'm a samurai, by the way."
Not all of the 'class' names are meant to be cool and interesting. I mean come on, Mobile Fighter isn't much better than Fighter. We can move around a lot more, so what?
The reason why classes are given the names they're given is to differentiate between what class and archetypes are (and do) what they are (and do). From a roleplaying standpoint, the mechanics of the game aren't implied as people (such as you for example) make them out to be.
Have you ever seen any realistic fantasy-based movies where the protagonists (or even antagonists) say mechanical stuff that their concept is based off of, such as being 4th Level in this class, or having X feats, etc.? That's pretty much what you did as an example of what people would consider their profession to be in terms of adventuring.
Now, sure some class names are fitting to the profession of the character, such as being a Mad Wizard of the North, or a random Traveling Bard out to see the world, but not all class names are going to be fitting, though they can most certainly be interchangable; Soldier can be another name to give a Fighter, or Warrior (which is what the NPC class is), or even a Swordsman, and vice-versa.
TL;DR The names of the classes can be interchangable, and they are called what they are called in the book for proper referencing sake (instead of confusing what one archetype or class is from another archetype or class).
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I'm pretty sure that at least a few Classes are commonly known by names, or else there could be serious complications. Like, you could be a Cavalier who dedicates himself to Good and crusades against Evil, and thus call yourself a Paladin. But when the townsfolk hear of your arrival and bring out their wounded/sick/blind/etc for you to cure with your magic, there are going to be disappointments.
Similarly, we know Wizards refer to themselves as such and know what Specialist Wizards are, going so far as to identify Thassilonian specialists differently. So there is no way a Wizard is going to get another Wizard confused with some Sorcerer for very long, and many Wizards are probably knowledgeable enough to tell smaller differences, like between Sorcerers and Summoners.
Basically, if somebody shows up to a magic college and announces that they are a Magician, Arcanist or Spirit-Sage, pretty much everybody else will just roll their eyes and move on.
I hope they can tell the diffrence between a sorcerer and summoner.
One looks like a dragon or elemental and the other has a hulking freakish looking monstrosity standing next to them (+ a summoner's mark).
The title of this thread made me think it was going to be about Dead or Alive 5.
That aside, I agree that class names are on out of character thing, I doubt characters refer to themselves based on what's on their sheet. A Fighter who liked swords might call themselves a swordsman, or a blademaster if they want to sound cocky.
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Rogue doesn't have to be negative. Someone who deviates from normal behavior is a rogue. If the normal behavior is negative, the rogue is doing good. Robin Hood and his merry men are rogues.
Yeah, no. A rogue is someone who deviates SIGNFICANTLY from normal behavior, to the point that it's unacceptable. "Smiling roguishly"? Implies you are smiling like you've done something horribly wrong, but don't give a damn. Or that you look like someone who's done bad things, which then pushes said person's "bad boy" status through the roof. It ain't a good thing unless all you consort with are scum, thieves and villainy. And teenage girls, I guess.
You walk into a market and introduce yourself as a rogue, and they're going to toss your ass out of there.
My witch, not being at all happy with the stereotype that it's a profession for women, refers to himself as a "warlock" when asked about his magical abilities. At all other times he's just an alchemist.
I hate to always draw back to military experience. But this came ALOT in the service.
You're at a bar, a girl starts talking to you (you're obviously in the military...hair cut and all) and it always comes up "so what do you do in the army"?
Now many guys could answer "Engineer" or "medic" , ok makes sense.
What do you tell a girl "Im a Green Beret" , no I didnt ask what hat you wore. I asked what you do?
I'm in the infantry. So you deliver babies?? (no seriously that happened once)
this generally is the same for any of the "fighting" MOS's that come to mind.
They ask you well what is it you DO? Ummm I shoot stuff.
Come on now there has to be something you do, when you arent off fighting war?
Ummm I practice shooting stuff?
This pretty much began the practice of us telling people, when asked "what do you do in the army" we would answer with "I'm a cook". End of discussion.
I Imagine thats pretty much the same for a Fighter.
A previous Rogue I played, was a Procurer of Ancient Artifacts.
In an Episode of standard action (which is partly a parody) the sorceress is talking to the bard and says "Does that mean you are planning to take a level of Rogue? OH I'm so happy for you!"
It was funny and took me off guard, but somehow it all made sense.....
This thread saddens me.
My last multi-classed character was a Cleric/Undead Sorcerer/Transmutation Wizard/Mystic Theurge. Now I regret that he never referred to himself as "Timothy, the Cleric-Sorcerer-with Undead-Heritage-Wizard-Specialized-in-Transmutation-Magic-Mystic-Theurge".
This thread saddens me.
My last multi-classed character was a Cleric/Undead Sorcerer/Transmutation Wizard/Mystic Theurge. Now I regret that he never referred to himself as "Timothy, the Cleric-Sorcerer-with Undead-Heritage-Wizard-Specialized-in-Transmutation-Magic-Mystic-Theurge".
There are some that call me...... "Tim"
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I hate to always draw back to military experience. But this came ALOT in the service.
You're at a bar, a girl starts talking to you (you're obviously in the military...hair cut and all) and it always comes up "so what do you do in the army"?
Now many guys could answer "Engineer" or "medic" , ok makes sense.
What do you tell a girl "Im a Green Beret" , no I didnt ask what hat you wore. I asked what you do?
I'm in the infantry. So you deliver babies?? (no seriously that happened once)
this generally is the same for any of the "fighting" MOS's that come to mind.They ask you well what is it you DO? Ummm I shoot stuff.
Come on now there has to be something you do, when you arent off fighting war?
Ummm I practice shooting stuff?This pretty much began the practice of us telling people, when asked "what do you do in the army" we would answer with "I'm a cook". End of discussion.
I Imagine thats pretty much the same for a Fighter.
LOL, you could try: "You know A team? I am .... (insert appropriate character name)".
Suspicious Guard: Who are you?
Witch: Just an old pilgrim with sore feet; midwife and herbalist too if you must know.
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Captain Roargar the Lucky of the crew of the reaper: before i accept an attractive and fragile doll like yourself. may i ask your identity and why you dress like that?
Fetchling Bard: i am a traveling puppeteer and noble scion, my reason for wearing such doll like fashion, is out of my love for puppetry and symbolic for my desires of power.
Random Tavern Traveler: you are a cute blonde, and that white dress really brings out your eyes, please tell me who you are and why you carry that solid adamantine glaive
Angelkin Oracle: i am a holy knight of the iron lord, a member of the order of the Adamantine Valkyries, a noble scion, and i don't like your cheap pick up line
Curious Westerner: i was distracted by that blue outfit of yours, it goes nicely with your blue hair, please tell me who you are and why you so openly wear the scales of dragons in these parts.
Undine Fighter/Sorcerer/Dragon Disciple: i am a priestess from Quin, in service to the Draconic Emperor, he willingly sheds his scales for his priestesses to produce clothing from.
Random Stranger in town: you smell of sickly sweet berries, you ignored me all night in favor of that book of yours, your scarlet hair is so alluring, and you seem so timid. may i ask whom you are?
Tiefling Wizard: i... i... i'm ... a library assistant, p... pl... please don't judge me... i may have a devil on my family tree, but she wasn't malicious or anything. quite the opposite.
Rogue doesn't have to be negative. Someone who deviates from normal behavior is a rogue. If the normal behavior is negative, the rogue is doing good. Robin Hood and his merry men are rogues.
Yeah, no. A rogue is someone who deviates SIGNFICANTLY from normal behavior, to the point that it's unacceptable. "Smiling roguishly"? Implies you are smiling like you've done something horribly wrong, but don't give a damn. Or that you look like someone who's done bad things, which then pushes said person's "bad boy" status through the roof. It ain't a good thing unless all you consort with are scum, thieves and villainy. And teenage girls, I guess.
You walk into a market and introduce yourself as a rogue, and they're going to toss your ass out of there.
Rogue as defined by websters dictionary
Examples 2 and 3 in nouns and the usage of it as an adjective.
If being a rogue was always bad and associated with villainy, how can rogues be LG?
Check out synonyms for rogue. It's a wide spread category.
Life is an endless adventure for those who live by their wits. Ever just one step ahead of danger, rogues bank on their cunning, skill, and charm to bend fate to their favor. Never knowing what to expect, they prepare for everything, becoming masters of a wide variety of skills, training themselves to be adept manipulators, agile acrobats, shadowy stalkers, or masters of any of dozens of other professions or talents. Thieves and gamblers, fast talkers and diplomats, bandits and bounty hunters, and explorers and investigators all might be considered rogues, as well as countless other professions that rely upon wits, prowess, or luck. Although many rogues favor cities and the innumerable opportunities of civilization, some embrace lives on the road, journeying far, meeting exotic people, and facing fantastic danger in pursuit of equally fantastic riches. In the end, any who desire to shape their fates and live life on their own terms might come to be called rogues.
Role: Rogues excel at moving about unseen and catching foes unaware, and tend to avoid head-to-head combat. Their varied skills and abilities allow them to be highly versatile, with great variations in expertise existing between different rogues. Most, however, excel in overcoming hindrances of all types, from unlocking doors and disarming traps to outwitting magical hazards and conning dull-witted opponents.
That is the definition that counts. The difference between Rogue and rogue.