So we have an adventuring group of 5 PC's, which class in your opinion has got the goods to represent all 5 spots in the group.
All 5 PC's use the same class but can of course use different archetypes.
So which class in your opinion is versatile enough to fill all 5 slots in a group and have it remain well rounded.
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So we have an adventuring group of 5 PC's, which class in your opinion has got the goods to represent all 5 spots in the group.
All 5 PC's use the same class but can of course use different archetypes.
So which class in your opinion is versatile enough to fill all 5 slots in a group and have it remain well rounded.
Bard would be my first choice.
Cleric my second.
Inquisitor or Magus my third.
An all Paladin group might also work.
Just my opinion.
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Druid. What other class can fight, have a pet, summon, buff, blast, control, alt movement type, full caster progression, heal,access to domains and get immunities and other powerful defenses?
By far the druid is the most flexible class in the game in range of abilities and being good at all of them. Having 5 of them is just going to be really strong.
How about Oracle? Each member picks a different mystery to round out what the group needs.
How about Oracle? Each member picks a different mystery to round out what the group needs.
Oracle isn't bad but at best it can replace 2 roles only, but yes it can take revelations that it usually couldn't get through feats so let's say maybe 3 roles if very careful with the choices.
Bards. Definately Bards.
How about Oracle? Each member picks a different mystery to round out what the group needs.Oracle isn't bad but at best it can replace 2 roles only, but yes it can take revelations that it usually couldn't get through feats so let's say maybe 3 roles if very careful with the choices.
Fire mystery -- Blaster.
Seer archetype -- Scout.Metal, Battle, and Ancestor mysteries -- Melee.
Life -- Healer/debuff removal.
And then an assortment of buff, debuff, and control potential from all of the mysteries (Bones being a fun one, in my opinion, with all the meatshields you can make), especially depending on what spells you choose.
What roles did we miss with this class? May not be the best at some of these roles, but it has an awful lot of options.
That said, I love the idea of an all Bard group. I remember someone mentioning they played in one at some point and rocked the world, somewhat literally.
I am seriously surprised nobody has said Synthesist Summoner.
Seriously.
They can all heal themselves, they can easily fulfill either melee or ranged damage, crowd control, scouting, skill monkey (evolution Skilled is amazing for this type thing) Charisma-based class so that any narrow-usage spells like condition removal can be handled with easy UMD checks (or even have one or two be Samsarans with other spells on their spell list).. plus everybody has a crapton of HP and AC and Saves and.. etc etc..
I would be hard-pressed to find something that a synthesist couldn't do amazingly well.
A party of 5 of them would not only be versatile enough to do just about anything, they would in fact be blatantly overpowered.
A bard is always welcome. Got tons of skills, great buffs and debuffs, can hold his own if built for it, and can sub for the cleric given a budget to stock up on cure light wands, so the actual cleric can spend his time doing non-healbot stuff.
Clerics are great. They are the only ones who can reliably fix EVERYTHING that ails you, given that they are high enough level to fix it. Even death is just an inconvenience with a cleric around. Not to mention that they have some amazing spells, and can fight to boot when they run out.
Druids have already been mentioned, no elaboration needed.
Summoner, given some system mastery, can be an amazing asset. Bring out the right Pokémon, and they are indeed super effective.
Oracles. No archetypes really needed, just different curses and mysteries. I am currently playing in a group of 7 oracles: Flame, Waves, Wind, Wood, Metal, Bones and Life. We have the blaster, the tank, the sniper, the trapper, the crafter, the caster and the healer.
For a more D&D traditional group I would reccomend Battle, Life, Lore, Dark Tapestry and Nature.
Also, if you ever heard about Castle Crashers, then Flame, Waves, Wind and Stone mandatory.
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Savant from Kobold Quarterly 18. Literally the most versatile class.
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I've always wanted to do an all-Bard party. With a Savage Skald (or Arcane Duelist) frontliner, Magician offensive caster, Court Bard archer, Archaeologist back-up melee and trapfinder, and Archivist support-caster and Knowledge master, you have some truly ridiculous stuff going on in terms of stackable bonuses, and a fun group to play with, too.
After that, Orcale and Cleric are probably tied for best, followed by Inquisitor and Druid.
Summoner.
Unless you build AWAY from it, vanilla/synthesist/master summoner all are solid combatants with utility from their spells and eidolons. With 5 in a party, if they compare notes, there will be little to no overlap of spells, and they will, save for the synthesist(s) in the party, have double the actions.
They only lack healing (for themselves, not their eidolons), but a skill monkey eidolon from a MS with a wand of CLW would be easy enough.
Druid: super versatile spell list, can skill-monkey, can tank, has a pet, wild shape opens up tons of additional options.
Elf druids can be archers, gnome/halfling/wayang mounted druids can even operate in dungeons, dwarf druids can grab Earth domain or whatever and tank, a half-elf druid can put his Skill Focus into Perception and get +9 to +14 to Perception at 1st level or put Skill Focus into Survival and be an uber-tracker, human druids can get Augment Summoning at 1st level, half-orc druids can tank too. I like the idea of axe-wielding druid tanks.
There really is no right or wrong answer to the question.
In my opinion I have always found the rogue to THE most versatile, particulary if he's of a small race. He can disarm traps, get in a good sneak attack, cast spells from wands and scrolls with use magic device. He is the "jack of all trades" (which I think is a prestige class in 3.5), and scout ahead for threats before the party is surprised by enemies hiding behind the tree in the middle of the field.
I agree with anyone who suggests an archaeologist bard. That archetype screams generic adventuring class to me. I would love to play a campaign with all archaeologists.
Design Manager
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I would say probably Druid, oracle, and then bard as the most versatile classes. The bards only real advantage over druid or oracle is his skill monkeyness, and he won't be able to as completely fill the caster, healer, or combat roles as those classes without a fairly hefty investment in wands and accessories. My 4th place pick is inquisitor, although if I'm running a whole party of one class, I'd probably run all Inquisitors since their Judgements and solid skills make them pretty self-sufficient and less reliant on another party member needing to step into a given role. A party full of Inquisitors could handle just about any situation, and most of the characters would probably be able to cover multiple roles in the party more or less on the fly.
The thing about druids over the more skill oriented versatile classes like bards and rogues is that between wildshape and their spell list they can bypass a good chunk of the challenges that need skill checks. Druids aren't the most social, so that is pretty much the only weak spot for them (and that can be handled with having a non terrible CHA, a trait that gives the skill as a class one, and a few points assigned).
wow i have to say I'm surprised at the bard love but looking at it closer I can see why.
Also surprised no mention of Alchemist
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All alchemists, all the time.
-Chirurgeon for healing and uti...wait, they all get utility
-Almost everyone for melee
-Everyone except vivisectionist for blasting and ranged in general(grenadier takes the cake)
-Everyone's a skill monkey
-One of these guys suddenly throws pickled monsters?! He's a preservationist and our resident summoner.
-Battlefield control is only a couple of discoveries away
-etc? etc!
The only thing that prevents this clique of oddball stooges from dominating is that at first level they look pretty identical and the melee people are sorely lacking in feats and proficiencies. Otherwise, it's pretty much the most versatile, the least party dependant class there is. As long as there's a magic mart somewhere for them to plunder for scrolls.
wow i have to say I'm surprised at the bard love but looking at it closer I can see why.
Also surprised no mention of Alchemist
and godling, although that is not from Paizo so I guess it is less known, but those classes are the most flexible and customizable ever
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If you want a completely OP group then all summoners.
If you want a more fun/flavorful yet still powerful selection, Inquisitors. They can be built for both ranged and melee, have access to a wide variety of spells and different domain powers, wide variety of skills, can turn on different judgements, and with the exception of a few archetypes actually use teamwork feats.
A party of Inquisitors with different ideologies could prove quite interesting RP opportunities as well :)
Different race alchemists can help fill different roles. Half-orcs get great axes, elves get bows, dwarves get...dwarven war axes. So there are some tanks and non-short ranged combatants.
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Druid, Oracle, and Bard are at the top of my list.
On this list as well.
Summoners : They are missing the most important thing healing with out UMD.
Rangers : Many people over look this but there very sold. The only down side is there not full casters. They make up for this with full BAB, Animal Companion, and 1/4 divine casting (wand healing). With a few archtypes they can make a very good party.
Even then if I was going to list them in order. Of the best single class party. This is where I rank them.
(Using a 15 - 20 Point Buy)
Druid > Ranger > Oracle > Bard > Summoner
(Using a 25 Point Buy)
Oracle > Druid > Ranger > Bard > Summoner
Druid, Oracle, and Bard are at the top of my list.
On this list as well.
Summoners : They are missing the most important thing healing with out UMD.
Rangers : Many people over look this but there very sold. The only down side is there not full casters. They make up for this with full BAB, Animal Companion, and 1/4 divine casting (wand healing). With a few archtypes they can make a very good party.Even then if I was going to list them in order. Of the best single class party. This is where I rank them.
(Using a 15 - 20 Point Buy)
Druid > Ranger > Oracle > Bard > Summoner
(Using a 25 Point Buy)
Oracle > Druid > Ranger > Bard > Summoner
Synthesist Summoners can heal themselves. Samsaran Summoners can throw some healing spells on their spell list. Done.
I see everyone here saying bards and druids but a party of 5 all using the same class I would say rogues
poisoner
scout
acrobat
trap smith
for the 5 person maybe bandit or thug or even better a knife master
archtypes can also include the alternate class archtypes such as Ninja for Rogue, I probably should have mentioned that.
I think rangers are an excellent class. I think they're probably the best class for introducing newbies to Pathfinder, and can be really versatile too. Especially with all the archetypes.
Outside of the official Pathfinder classes, I think the binder (from 3.5 Tome of Magic) is even more versatile.
I see everyone here saying bards and druids but a party of 5 all using the same class I would say rogues
poisoner
scout
acrobat
trap smith
for the 5 person maybe bandit or thug or even better a knife master
no arcane caster, no healer, not really a fighter
these roles are handled better by other classes, and one can't rely only on UMD either
Bards, druids, alchemists, wizards. Bards take the #1 spot based on archtypes. Druids are probably the best straight core.
3.5: the factotum (dungeonscape)
Ryu, a Druid can make just as good of a "fighter" as a Fighter can thanks to Wild Shape.
However, I have to give a +1 to Alchemists. They can fill any party role and do so quiet well. In fact, each of the Alchemists in a party would likely be filling more than one role.
Glutton: Stop it. No more mentions of the Factotum please. Ugh... *shudder*
Have a bad experience with one?
I can totally see a great group of nothing but Druids, or even nothing but Alchemists. I personally have a huge hate on for Bards, I'm not really sure why though...
So for me I think it would be something like
#1: Summoners (synthesists specifically so everyone can heal themselves on top of everything else)
#2: Druids
#3: Oracles
#4: Alchemists
#5: Maaaybe Rangers although they certainly have areas in which they are lacking.
I don't understand how Rogues are being mentioned here.. they can cover several aspects but are seriously lacking in several areas... I mean skills yeah, trapfinding yeah, melee damage yeah, ranged damage yeah... but almost anything else you are relying on UMD or just not able to do at all. Fighters would definitely be near the bottom of the list too. I saw someone mention Wizards, but I would definitely put a group of Sorcerers over a group of Wizards. (especially since Sorcerers can potentially be based on different stats)
In no order
1: Wizard
2: Cleric
3: Druid
4: Witch
I GOTTA ask... HOW do you make Witches to fullfill every significant role?
I GOTTA ask... HOW do you make Witches to fullfill every significant role?In no order
1: Wizard
2: Cleric
3: Druid
4: Witch
This. I love witches, I think they're an awesome class, but while a party composed of just witches would tank an opponents saves and keep 'em re-rolling until a 1 shows up, they don't do a lot of hit point damage, and you can't slumber every foe. Plus, the moment the DM throws in some undead opponents (or constructs, or anything that's immune to mind-affecting spells and abilities), your witches will be the ones crying as they search their familiars brains for something to do, and come up empty.
Just to consider something different i'm gonna go with sorcerers. assuming you can go Samsaran to pick up some heals a sylvan blooded sorcerer with a stegosaurous gives you a tank backed with mage buffs and the others can select spells and bloodlines to fill the other roles as needed.
The Orc Witchdoctor archetype replaces Int with Con for casting stat and hex DC stat. I think that would be a fun "tank." With the right patron and hexes, you could probably build an interesting (if not optimal) melee character.
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I would be hard-pressed to find something that a synthesist couldn't do amazingly well.
I can think of two things:
Healing, and not anoying the living hell out of your DM :P
Most effective 'all-whatever' group I've seen was a group of three Paladins (technically 3 Paladins and an NPC Rogue but still). They could all self-heal as a swift action, all had huge saves and AC which made them very hard to kill, all had great ranged ability, all could buff (Litany of Righteousness, anyone?) and all had high enough charisma to be effective faces.
Sure they were missing out on Rogue-type skills and the versatility of a wizard's spells, but they were hell on wheel.
So to speak.
hah I just realised no one has yet said 5 AM BARBARIANS :P